Pretty much how I see the GamePad. It's neat, the Wii U is neat, but I'm not sure it's offering the value that we could have got from just better core tech in the system which may have lead to more ports and more general support by gamers and industry. It's a hard justification - especially when Pikmin 3 seems best played with Wii Remote and Mario Kart uses it as a damned horn.
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Iwata: "Some developers have become pessimistic about Wii U"
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Pretty much how I see the GamePad. It's neat, the Wii U is neat, but I'm not sure it's offering the value that we could have got from just better core tech in the system which may have lead to more ports and more general support by gamers and industry. It's a hard justification - especially when Pikmin 3 seems best played with Wii Remote and Mario Kart uses it as a damned horn.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Hmmmmm might be good commercial.
The U owner is playing 3D Marioworld, when the jerk big brother enters the room and whines he needs to use the TV to play the Xbone. The U player switches to gamepad play so the older brother can use Xbone to watch TV.
I stated a fact, not an opinion.
Warm Machine
Member
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
SOME!?!?!?!
Try nearly all!
Try nearly all!
TreasureHunterG
Banned
I've brought this statement in some threads before to show how he truly looks at third-parties.
It's funny, because Iwata's fanboys says Yamauchi was the responsible for the grudge created by third-parties against Nintendo and the reason for why they're still reluctant to support it. I agree that Yamauchi had issues with third-parties, but Iwata was/is even worse. I don't recall Nintendo ever had such lackluster third-party support the way it is now under Yamauchi, despite all his problems.
I think from all mistakes Yamauchi made, his biggest was to choose Iwata as his successor. Yeah, yeah, I know he made record profits with Wii and DS, but that was short-term, as most of his directions are based. Look at Nintendo now. It's unacceptable for a company like Nintendo, once a paradigm of gaming, both under the development and gaming eyes, to fall this under.
I know Iwata will step down soon, (two years in a row in red, two fucked up launches, WiiU's piss poor sales, Wii's sales decline, Nintendo's internal studios struggling to adapt to HD development, dissatisfaction from shareholders (77% aprovement)), but will be Nintendo able to fix the damage made by his management and keep Wii U alive and kicking?
Isolate yourself from your wife and kids!
I'd hazard a guess that most of those potential customers already bought a Wii U for MH3U. Although it's right up my alley, I don't see X becoming the one to save the Wii U.
AstroNut325
Member
LOL... what?!?!?!
Yeah Nintendo is in a lose-lose situation. If a multiplatform game releases for the U and the PS41... without hesitation most people will spring for the better graphics and stability of the PS41. But without these multiplatform titles... there is little incentive to own a Wii U! Especially for someone like me who doesn't like Marios and Zeldas.
shinra-bansho
Member
No one cares about off-TV play. It's just not a compelling value adder to justify the price premium.
It's a shipment number. The citing of shipment numbers as if it was software sell-through is equally annoying though.
DashReindeer
Lead Community Manager, Outpost Games
It's so sad because I love the GamePad like no other controller that came before it. In fact, the design of the GamePad has gotten me to put in way more play time with the Wii U than I normally do with home consoles. Not only do I have games constantly running on there even when doing somthing else, I do most of my Internet browsing there, and all of my YouTube, Netflix, and Hulu viewing.
The GamePad has offerend me the best user experience I have ever had with a game console, and that's before all the good games even come out! I am constantly shocked by the people who dislike the GamePad, and wish that Nintendo had found a better way to communicate its value to consumers. It makes gaming so much more pleasant for me, and the only sad part about it is that there won't be many non-Nintendo games coming out over the next few years that support it. That's just a damn shame, cuz playing without it now feels like taking a huge step backwards...
I've been buying Nintendo consoles since 1994 and following their policies closely since 2000 or so, and this is by far the biggest fuck up Nintendo have ever, ever achieved. Yeah, worse than the virtual boy - by far. Worse than carts vs CDs. Worse than the 64DD.
Nintendo had the unique chance of making the comeback to end all comebacks after the success of the Wii and DS. They had huge mindshare in the market, tonnes of cash....and yet they did fuck all for 2 years, gave the competition a huge headstart and released the Wii U.
I mean, I have one for the Nintendo games...but where the fuck are they? Where's my Mario 64? Where's the innovative experiences that I've had on each other Nintendo? What the fucking fuck are they doing?
fucking hell
Nintendo had the unique chance of making the comeback to end all comebacks after the success of the Wii and DS. They had huge mindshare in the market, tonnes of cash....and yet they did fuck all for 2 years, gave the competition a huge headstart and released the Wii U.
I mean, I have one for the Nintendo games...but where the fuck are they? Where's my Mario 64? Where's the innovative experiences that I've had on each other Nintendo? What the fucking fuck are they doing?
fucking hell
Do we know yet if that's all its used for?
I do. And a few others do, reading this thread alone. But then again, I'm an informed gamer who knew all about it. How does the mass consumer know about it without the product being marketed to them effectively? We can't arrive at the conclusion that Nintendo's concept has no wider appeal without concluding that they have conveyed that concept well enough in the first place. I don't think they have, so I don't think the mass market has as yet rejected it wholesale. They haven't had the chance.
That's not to say they won't, I just genuinely don't think enough of the potential consumer base knows what the heck the product is yet (and that is entirely Nintendo's doing).
JordanLMiller
Member
AppleSmack
Banned
Why isn't GTA V on Wii U?
You'd think that after this (Launch in Europe)
Nintendo would of figured out how to repeat it.
I'm of the opinion that if they had released a successor in 2010 or 2011 it would have been a massive success. It would have been the ideal time, and they didn't need to re-invent the wheel either. Keep the Wii Remote, refine it, make the console far more powerful. Add a decent online infrastructure and account system. Done.
they would have successfully rode the momentum from the Wii into the new gen, and would have forced the hand of Sony and Microsoft too. The DS could have easily carried on another year with some pokemon or whatever, with a successor this year
but what the fuck do I know. I'm just a dude at home offering an opinion, not one of the strategic geniuses working at Nintendo.
Bony Manifesto
Member
I don't think Yamauchi really had much of a choice. Being Japanese, they were unwilling to bring in anyone from outside the organisation, and the environment wasn't exactly conducive to developing managerial talent from within the company. Even now, it's set up in much the same way as it was in Yamauchi's day, with practically the entire company micromanaged by a single individual. I've said this before and I'll say it again: Nintendo desperately need to start giving regional managers some power and autonomy to do their own thing.
AstroNut325
Member
I care a lot about off-TV play. I would love to be able to play console games while having a beer on my porch or patio. I just want beefier hardware specs. And Nintendo completely failed in that regard. They couldn't even be bothered to include GDDR RAM. I didn't expect Nintendo to include a 7850 class GPU but at least SOMETHING with a GCN architecture and a 1TF single precision performance would have gone a LONG way to get more third party support. AND please graphics whores like myself!
It's cute that you think that the graphical performance of Wii U has nothing to do with the lack of 3rd party support.
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
Why do Iwata threads read like a two minute hate? The amount of cartoonish vitriol is depressing.
The thing is, Nintendo's dogged determination on including backwards compatibility with each console has to be commended, but when it results in their home console in 2013 essentially running on upgraded GAMECUBE tech, it's not just shooting themselves in the foot - it's literally hacking it off with a rusty pitchfork and then throwing it over the fence before getting a shotgun out and THEN shooting it whilst in mid air.
yes. That's it.
yes. That's it.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
ZombiU is a polarizing title, I purchased it and played it a bit. But lost interest, I won't to trade it in towards Injustice, but GameStop nor BestBuy carry the game, I also noticed they don't carry NFS:MW U.
He's probably the most hated dude since Bobby Kotick.
Which is funny as he doesn't have an ounce of evil in him. That's the problem. Nintendo used to be cut throat. They were the king of the mountain and you didn't fuck with them or else.
Modern Nintendo is a joke and it's because of all the Luigi hats and Bananas.
Which is funny as he doesn't have an ounce of evil in him. That's the problem. Nintendo used to be cut throat. They were the king of the mountain and you didn't fuck with them or else.
Modern Nintendo is a joke and it's because of all the Luigi hats and Bananas.
That's the key thing here imo. Communicating the concept to the market. They have failed utterly at that. All of the dozen or so people I've showed the console to - from avid 'hardcore' gamer friends, my cynical recently-Nintendo-disliking brother, father-of-two middle aged boss, neutral gaming friends, to non gaming friends/family - have immediately liked it and had a great time with it (4x of whom have so far either bought/are intending to buy it soon afaik). The problem is, all except my brother either hadn't heard of it or had made up their mind about it being crap based on what they'd heard. Either way Nintendo simply isn't advertising it enough right now and isn't getting the concept accross to people.
People citing off-screen play for one TV households (or similar) need to REALLY go back to the Sony and MS press conferences and watch their detailed presentations on second screen functionality. Second screen is the new motion controls... In that everyone sees it as important and everyone is developing it. And honestly Nintendo is in the best position for it right now because, just like motion control, Nintendo is the ONLY console that can guaranty every system has a second screen available for it.
With that being said, it IS the new motion control. i.e. seriously cool if a dev team does something cool with it, otherwise hacked on.
I honestly don't think the Wii U is in a horrendous situation technology-wise. They are again at the front of the pack with a tech that the other two are copying, and honestly the leap here is less than it was last gen (480p to 720p was way more disparaging than 1080p in both cases just with lower polys, smaller textures, etc)
Anyway, they can turn it around but holy shit does Nintendo need to step it up on marketing. And survive to the point that they can get a new 3D Mario, SSB, and Mario Kart all out in the same year.. And if the west is currently actively shunning them, start turning shit around and making the deals that need to happen to bring them back. Also wouldnt hurt to get some of those current Sony exclusives ported to Wii U from Japan either (Vanillaware, Atlus, NIS, Namco, etc)
With that being said, it IS the new motion control. i.e. seriously cool if a dev team does something cool with it, otherwise hacked on.
I honestly don't think the Wii U is in a horrendous situation technology-wise. They are again at the front of the pack with a tech that the other two are copying, and honestly the leap here is less than it was last gen (480p to 720p was way more disparaging than 1080p in both cases just with lower polys, smaller textures, etc)
Anyway, they can turn it around but holy shit does Nintendo need to step it up on marketing. And survive to the point that they can get a new 3D Mario, SSB, and Mario Kart all out in the same year.. And if the west is currently actively shunning them, start turning shit around and making the deals that need to happen to bring them back. Also wouldnt hurt to get some of those current Sony exclusives ported to Wii U from Japan either (Vanillaware, Atlus, NIS, Namco, etc)
TreasureHunterG
Banned
Great post.
It's the same Q&A session posted ad nauseum in dozens of threads, distilled phrase by phrase for maximum trolling impact.
People really never fully read the OPs.
I'm not sure. I don't even think he's said anything particularly inflammatory and especially nothing out of the ordinary for a CEO. I guess he brings out the hate in some people?
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
I thought the problem was that old Nintendo chased publishers into the arms of other console manufacturers by instituting draconian policies. And reverting to that is somehow supposed to solve something?
Not even sure what your last line is supposed to mean. Was there ever a time when Nintendo didn't do silly promotions? Maybe your memory of the Nintendo Power Donkey Kong Country VHS is different than mine.
Square2015
Member
Finally for Nintendo, going it alone/relying on in-house R&D teams-only for software is flopping for Nintendo...in ALL THREE regions!
WiiU is performing poorly worldwide; this is truly a new phenomenon for them to wrap their heads around.
WiiU is performing poorly worldwide; this is truly a new phenomenon for them to wrap their heads around.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
You don't remember the two games that launched with the 64? 2 entire games for about 6 months. I bought War Gods for crying out loud, I was so desperate.
Where is your God now?
I remember that. I also remember that one of those two games was the single most innovative game of all time.
That alone puts it leagues above the Wii U launch, regardless of the quantity of games available.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
I like to think it's because most people here remember when Nintendo were an interesting company making interesting games.
Since taking over in 2002, Iwata has been at the head of a company who released the DS, a 3D DS, DS Home Console Edition and Wii and games that have been, personally, a lot less compelling.
I don't think he's entirely to blame for Nintendo of post-Game Cube being awful, but as the head he basically has to be the focal point of the "cartoonish vitriol".
Yamauchi had this man running NoA
He literally wouldn't take no for an answer.
Iwata has this tool.
NoA needs more of the former and less of the latter. They need some independence to go out and secure games and they need someone with balls (something I think Reggie left at Pizza Hut or VH1).
Square2015
Member
That drought was just in Japan, in the States the drought lasted less than two months.
shinra-bansho
Member
Too often people blame "marketing," wherein they really only mean advertising, using it as a crutch when it's simply a failure of product.
The product has been in stores for 8 months. It is selling in the 30Ks per month in the US. Those levels of sales are not just indicative of a "marketing" problem. And if your value proposition is so convoluted that one must buy it before understanding it then that in itself is fundamentally flawed.
It is not a failure in advertising, it is a failure in conception.
It comes to the fore when one asks the question: "To whom is the Wii U supposed to sell to." And cannot find a good answer beyond Nintendo's core fanbase.
After 8 months on the market with little software the PSV's languishing wasn't due to "marketing" either.
It is not some sort of panacea.
It's not his talk people are getting sick of IMHO. I think people actually appreciate hearing a company executive admit when they are wrong. It's that.... They seemingly don't change anything.
"We know there's a problem getting 3rd parties on board"
That's a huge admission. The thing everyone is growing wary of is that it's not followed up with "We are actively working to repair those relationships and have trucks full of cash on the way" or some other silly hyperbole.
I honestly don't think Iwata is a bad president per se. On the contrary he is a considerable figurehead to have leading your company. I do think he needs to take a serious look though at who is handling these developer relations, and who is handling marketing.. And take a serious look at changing those. I also think the time has come for Nintendo to possibly grab a few more first party studios... Especially some western ones.
You'd think that after this (Launch in Europe)
Nintendo would of figured out how to repeat it.
Seems they try to fling some shit and see what sticks on the wall. This time it failed.
Instead of trying to get this "one hit wonder" systems, they should make a system that is good for the gaming market and not catered to one audience only.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
This is an incredibly poor reading of exactly what happened at E3. All the functionality you discuss as being "the next big thing" from a second screen was from a tablet or, I guess, a Vita. The useage of which is when you have to leave your glorious 50" TV and go and slum it on the bus, train, or go to work and squeak in some cheeky Batllefield Commander time.
That of course, is the one thing the WiiU cannot do or provide at all. Nor was it the instigator of such ideas with many other companies having toyed with game to external web design and influence concepts through this gen gone. Battle.net, Bungie.com, all these sorts of things and apps where you can do rudimentary stuff that plugs into your server side game save stuff like the Fable Casino game and all culminating into SmartGlass and the like. People weren't waiting for Nintendo to show them the benefit of another screen, they were already on that shit before the WiiU flumped out the gate because they wanted to use things like iPads and smartphones to keep people tapped into their product.
Good luck with that! The Wii U pad is useless from more than about 15 feet out and the charge lasts about as long as a good bowel movement. It's a piece of shit wrapped in an awesome package.
When I bought the Wii U, knowing full well the console itself was under-powered, I had high hopes the controller would salvage it, but It's just as poorly designed as the rest of the system. Developers are 'pessimistic' because it's a bad console, and third party games will never do well on it.
Exactly. The gamepad is simply a failed concept.
I mean, the writing has really been on the wall. Frankly, in this world of tablets and smartphones, I'm surprised ANYONE thought the gamepad would ever catch on. It's too similar to those devices to NOT be compared to them, and too gimped to ever come out of those comparisons looking pretty.
As I said (in the post you quoted I think) I don't think they've marketed it enough for anyone outside gaming forums to have made that decision. The reason it isn't selling is because the mass market don't know what the f*ck it is. There are plenty of people who own it and love it who will refute the GamePad being a "half measure", so that's subjective. And I don't think to the general consumer it's even apparent how the account system/game transferring compares to its rivals, and definitely not to the extent that they've made their decision of whether to purchase it or not based on that.
I agree that they need to wow consumers with visuals more. That's the simplest marketing tool for Videogames. Let's hope they do and soon.
Bony Manifesto
Member
I think they're stuck in the old ways of designing hardware: having some engineers cloistered away from everyone draw up something that fits the requirements put to them, then sending it to manufacturing and handing over the devkits to their internal developers. The PS3 was the last console to take that sort of approach, and it was a lame duck for far too many years until developers learned (at great expense) how to get results comparable to the 360 from it. Today, you simply have to design hardware from the ground-up with developers in mind. There's no way around it.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Saying they're "standard on all platforms" is disingenuous because it's not taking into account how deeply integrated into the platform they are. Where are the motion controls for the PS4? A Move accessory that got one 5 minute tech demo presentation back in February? They're not a significant part of PS4's strategy whatsoever, that's a fact. Nintendo has all but abandoned them with their new controller for their new console being what it is. Only Microsoft has deeply integrated motion controls into their platform, and even that is ancillary when it comes to gaming.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
He also was specifically talking about 3rd party support. It's been a disaster since the snes. Those 2 n64 games were also 1st party. The opinion that yaumauchi was better at the 3rd party game is complete shit. He only had the unquestionable leader during the nes era and things started souring within 1 cycle. People where happy to leave during the n64 generation due to how bad it was with Yams and the previous generations.
Duckhuntdog
Member
I wish Arakawa would have taken over NCL and Lincoln NoA. Things might have been different now. Maybe.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
No, like the controls in Mario Kart Wii which is the reason it sold 34 million copies
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