Samir Sedlar
Member
The shit that people complain about is astonishing, the game is as fucking far from reality as space to earth, and yet the complain about not so realistic Gigolo Mode.
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Killer is Dead 'can fuck off into space' - Matt Lees talks about "Gigolo mode"
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The Cartographer
Member
D1 for me.
So basically soft core porn in videogame form?
Absolutely fucking outrageous. I can't believe what Suda has done this time, soft core porn is going to taint this medium and the total of 250k people that buy this game will end up being badder people.
Shame on you Suda 51 team, shame on you.
Absolutely fucking outrageous. I can't believe what Suda has done this time, soft core porn is going to taint this medium and the total of 250k people that buy this game will end up being badder people.
Shame on you Suda 51 team, shame on you.
I would certainly much prefer that the playing field in video games was more level (less emphasis on sexy/pointless,disproportionately endowed women), but there are all kinds of audiences and there is one for this kind of mini-game. Some people like sex, some like boobs and titillating fantasy. If it wasn't so frustratingly prevalent in this form of entertainment, I don't think there would be such a reaction, so it's definitely not a bad thing to be more aware of content like this. It's be great for that passion to be applied to making other kinds of games too, though.
And, yes, my involvement does definitely suggest a grain of salt (which is why my affiliation is front and center), but the misinformation was bothering me. I do understand the dislike for it, and it's a valid reaction. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't unduly turning people off for the wrong reasons.
I'd like more sexy men too. Enough with WWE characters, I want shirtless Ian Somerhalder, shirtless Troy Baker (inFAMOUS save us!)
Apocryphon
Member
This. Totally agree.
……forgetit
Member
I'm surprised so many people are defending this. He's not saying it sucks based on any feminist mountain he's standing on, he just thinks it freaking creepy, and from the description I have to agree with him.
Coffee Dog
Banned
We aren't allowed to poke fun at bar creepers? Because that's what this is; it's ridiculous and goofy, poking fun at this ridiculous main character doing ridiculous shit as he tries to get laid.
fabricated backlash
Member
The american culture are being castrated for this puritanism. Is like this stupid Bob Mackey review of Lollipop Chainsaw:
http://www.1up.com/reviews/lollipop-chainsaw-review
I love how he simultaneously tries to vilify the depiction of sexualized women in Lollipop Chainsaw and objectifies women as pure beings that should not see you play this filth, lest they'd think you have sexual urges.
The bolded is widely optimistic lol.
That1BlackGuy
Member
Meh, not canceling my pre-order, I'm" a huge fan of S51 and his related works. I can see why people could take issue with this but I personally just don't care either way.
Fixed, though I don't know numbers of his last few lol, though Lollipop had the WB advertising dollars.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Murder acceptable, gross sexism not... mmkay.
Sorry folks, but I can't really understand why one thing is problematic and the other isn't, and I really don't understand where this notion that all games now have to be socially responsible has come from.
Being a chauvinistic jerk is less of a problem than being a murderous sociopath, a role that many titles are built around. Honestly if imitation is the concern I'd far rather see some fool ape the former than the latter, especially if I got to watch the (likely painful) rejection of this cavemen seduction technique.
Sorry folks, but I can't really understand why one thing is problematic and the other isn't, and I really don't understand where this notion that all games now have to be socially responsible has come from.
Being a chauvinistic jerk is less of a problem than being a murderous sociopath, a role that many titles are built around. Honestly if imitation is the concern I'd far rather see some fool ape the former than the latter, especially if I got to watch the (likely painful) rejection of this cavemen seduction technique.
We just had someone who's actually spoken to Suda say the description isn't actually accurate.
freenudemacusers
Member
Maybe if she looked a little more moe I would be interested.
Dismissive reasoning that stunts conversation i something I gotta say something about , brah. At least that is how I saw it. Anyways I am done just got back my DCUO member ship, going to super hero for a while.
( getting out before things get apeshit)
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
How is it satire? I'd call Beyonetta and Lollipop heavily handed satire, the female characters were ultimately were sexist archetypes but they subverted some of the tropes and were the most powerful characters in their respective games. Gigolo mode doesn't seem like any kind of satire to me, it seems like you're just gawking at a women's privates, then gawking at their privates again in an even more disturbing way, then giving them some crude gift to get an awkward clothed sex scene and power-up. Where's the satire in that? The women solely exist for people to perv over.
How isn't this a harmful portrayal of women and how men should treat women? Also they're the people who don't want to discuss actual issues with gaming because they're not part of the minority or because they want to keep it in there (despite nobody telling me what value this added to the game yet). Though I'm not going to talk about them any more after:
Because I'm sure 100% of the people that are talking about this on NeoGAF are hoping to score internet relationships with the huge amount of female posters here. It's obviously not because it's demeaning bullshit that has no place in a game.
BRocknRolla
Member
I continue to be dissapointed in people's reactions to issues like this. The level of shortsightedness and inability to see beyond their own little worlds continues to be a problem, to say nothing of the outright negativity directed toward women. Best I leave before I get more depressed.
Not quite. He thinks it's more than "freaking creepy". It's just really hard to take this guy seriously while watching this video.
Shadows of the Damned probably bombed the worst, I think 30k or 40k copies were sold. I rented Shadows of the Damned and had a blast with it, probably one of the most underrated third person shooter games this gen.
The Cartographer
Member
Moe is subjective friend.
this
In all honestly, people who actually care about women's representations in videogames should be more offended that people are taking advantage of your viewpoint for cheap attention. At the very least, Anita Sarkeesian puts up videos and actually tries to define what exactly she feels is wrong, most gaming journalists harp to score cheap acknowledgment and brownie points.
don't take the bait mates
don't take the bait mates
SousedLouse
Member
Wouldn't that be
knife
in
eye
?
His argument is a bit stronger than "this shit's creepy." Let's not be disingenuous here.
EDIT to add: I think you're the only one who saw my post, though, so it probably won't matter in the end.
I thought your post was interesting, but it was also so succinct that I didn't feel like there was anything to reply too. It was a solid clarification for the video.
Again, he's free to think that, to hate the game, to think it's disgusting and saying no one should play it. But talking about the team and saying they're no longer suited for making games is going a bit too far.
It's a creepy game and he doesn't want to play creepy games - perfectly fair
It's a creepy game, Suda's carreer is over - what?
creationtheory
Member
Also just in: Video games are not reality
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
I'm not making the argument that Suda should stop making games nor am I saying that Suda51 is personally a sexist.
The context I am getting from the video is that the entire minigame is based around a guy who has to creep on women until he gets enough confidence to talk to them. He oggles their boobs and crotch as much as he can until he works up the nerve. The women obviously don't approve of this behavior as they slap him if they catch him. But that doesn't stop him from trying again. Maybe that isn't true and the guy in the video is just making a mountain out of a mole hill. I don't know.
The argument that the post I was responding to was making was that, by not accepting that situation (which is blatant sexual harassment where I come from), I am reinforcing the suppression of female sexuality. To which I responded "Context is everything: The women have no agency in this and obviously don't approve".
See, if the women actually liked it and encouraged it, that would be different. But from what I understand, the women don't like it and actively try to stop you if they see you. For me, that's where the issue comes in. This isn't about female expression of their sexuality, this is about a creeper committing borderline/if not outright sexual harassment to get his rocks off.
Again, all I have is the guy in the video's statement to go off of.
H.Protagonist
[-_-]/
Killer is Dead is actually kind of funny in that regard. Though I would prefer Mondo shirtless, the outfit for David* is pretty, uh... haha. More fair play than many games.
I hear you, though. I'd like a bit more shirt ripping for guys in games. It would please me greatly. Troy Baker is quite fetching in person, I might add.
*Linked it, because it may contain spoilers for some.
Just you wait for the Matt Lees Kickstarter 2013.
you say that and go on to describe how it is satire man
freenudemacusers
Member
I cannot wait for a deep discussion about moe to take place in this thread.
Eh. Not even. The Killer7 scene with Curtis and Pedro was more fucked up than this. This is just sort of quirky in comparison that plays to the character's interest in having James Bond-style fling, only turned up to eleven.
Host Samurai
Member
Whatever, it's only a video game and don't see what the big deal is. Seems similar to the Yakuza modes but much more forward. I don't take this seriously at all
shaowebb
Member
Wow...game sounds like shit.
Agent Matt
Member
In this thread: People that have no problem with games where you kill thousands act like they're offended by a game that depicts casual sex.
This. Easily.
SlasherJPC
Banned
I think the real goal here is for hits to their videos. Any topic of this nature seems to do it. So congrats I guess?
EscapingJail
Member
Hit it right on the head.
Blood/Gore = Good
Sex = Will someone think of the children!?!
This is an M rated game focused on Adult content. If you cant handle adult content in an M rated game then I don't know what to tell you, The game isn't rated AO so you're obviously not gonna be playing a prono simulator...
It is disappointing that people can seemingly dismiss discussion about this mode and anything of this nature by saying "oh, it's a Japanese game, what do you expect?" Whether it's to be expected is irrelevant when the argument is over whether it's exploitative or even offensive. As a fan of Suda you obviously have to accept that at times there is going to be questionable content but at the same time I haven't seen enough of this to know whether it's as self aware as people are claiming. Judging by the article the video was based on however, that isn't the case.
I like Matt Lees a lot, and while he might have been a little over the top in his use of language I think he's in a totally understandable position. The article deals with things a bit more in-depth for anyone that hasn't glanced at it yet, though it is basically reiteration of what is said in the video (or the other way around, I suppose.)
I was pretty sure he wrote it. He's also an "executive director", whatever that entails.
I like Matt Lees a lot, and while he might have been a little over the top in his use of language I think he's in a totally understandable position. The article deals with things a bit more in-depth for anyone that hasn't glanced at it yet, though it is basically reiteration of what is said in the video (or the other way around, I suppose.)
I was pretty sure he wrote it. He's also an "executive director", whatever that entails.
I can't wait for the "dead people can't be hurt anymore" argument to pop up.
GuessMyUserName
Member
This is 100% what I came to say after I watched the video, well done. The way the guy in the video talks about this disgusts me muuuuuch more than a silly fictional mode in a niche video game ever could.
Exr
Member
Huh? I'm just saying that people that are looking for anything more regarding the presentation of women in his games are looking in the wrong place. I like some of Sudas games, but it doesn't surprise me regarding his aesthetic choice.
Sorry FinalBoss, misread your post.
Probably shouldn't use video games for guides on how to date or treat women. Kind of like how you shouldn't go on a shooting rampage because you did it in a video game.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
Agreed.
Thanks. Games journalism needs to move past their reactionary view of sexuality and come to grips with it's existence. Be more European about it and stop with the slut shaming.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw63pdPIyVg
Why aren't people talking about this as a portrayal of men? It's like tacitly agreeing that every masculine ideal wants to have a series of one-nighters with a bunch of vacuous over-endowed tamagotchi-women that require a constant supply of feeding/gifts.
Maybe we can skirt around all the inherent rancor at the portrayal of women in videogames by addressing more candidly what we think about the portrayal of men in videogames (which is something that males are somehow more "entitled" to speak about, I guess?). For example - do you take issue that the vast majority of random disposable mooks and flunkies in video games are male? What does that tell you about the male gender?
Also, how many times have you seen the male gender linked with the "loser" archetype as opposed to women? Have you seen many video game women that "fail at life"? Incredibly moronic/stupid women? Or is there a skew to being violent/criminally dumb and the male gender?
Maybe we can skirt around all the inherent rancor at the portrayal of women in videogames by addressing more candidly what we think about the portrayal of men in videogames (which is something that males are somehow more "entitled" to speak about, I guess?). For example - do you take issue that the vast majority of random disposable mooks and flunkies in video games are male? What does that tell you about the male gender?
Also, how many times have you seen the male gender linked with the "loser" archetype as opposed to women? Have you seen many video game women that "fail at life"? Incredibly moronic/stupid women? Or is there a skew to being violent/criminally dumb and the male gender?
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
But being a murderer is illegal, while being a chauvinistic ass isn't. While I think it's a bit of an exaggeration to denounce the whole game, based on one mode, you can't ignore the pervy nature that pervades throughout all of Suda51's games. It used to be looked at as mostly tasteless humor and simple fun, but I think he's really pushing it this time. It sets a terrible precedent for the treatment of sex and the opposite sex in general.
"But since when does a Suda51 game have to be the beacon of taste, and be held to an ideal that nothing else is?!" This may be what some of you are asking. And to be honest, there's no reason it has to. But at the same time, there's no reason that this reviewer and people commenting in this thread should not denounce him for putting this mode in his game. It's his choice to include it, but it's everyone else's choice to call him classless for it.
I just wish the "white knight" talk would disappear. It's not wrong to want women to stop being hypersexualized across all forms of media. With women climbing in the entertainment industry, not only video games, but movies, music videos, and artists are starting to have to cater to the criticism of their growing female audience. It's just the way the world is moving.
truestatic
Member
I believe the knife's in the knifer's hand, not the knifees.
Suda confirmed that he's directing pretty much everything except for the battle system and certain set pieces I think.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
You can want to play this game and critique it.
But he is, and you're asking how can people defend it against this video, that's why.
Killer is Dead is actually kind of funny in that regard. Though I would prefer Mondo shirtless, the outfit for David* is pretty, uh... haha. More fair play than many games.
I hear you, though. I'd like a bit more shirt ripping for guys in games. It would please me greatly. Troy Baker is quite fetching in person, I might add.
*Linked it, because it may contain spoilers for some.
HAHAHAHA WTF, how can people take this game seriously???
And damn, you met Troy Baker? He seems like the kind of person who smells nice.
That was weird.
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