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[DirgeExtinction]

Unlocked framerate looks worse than locked 30 fps. It gives the impression of constant slowdowns. They probably do it for less laggy controls but damn that's gonna be bad for the eyes.

Wait, so unlocked 30+fps looks worse than locked 30fps? At least it's not dipping below 30fps.

 

[purnoman3000]

So in all these threads about fps on GAF, the summation I'm getting is that all games need to be 30 or 60 and no other possible framerates exist



.

 

[IHaveCandy]

If it enables v-sync, it will be at 30 fps most the time and occasionally jump to 60. I don't think that is what he is saying. Either they are triple buffering or the have a solution like GoW3 with motion blur to mask the effect.

They must have a greater than 30 fps a significant amount of the time and don't want to waste it. I trust them, they know their tech.

I don't think that is how v sync works. As I understand it, it works like this, in 1 second, there are 60 refreshes. If a frame comes in a couple milliseconds early before one of those 60 refreshes, it holds it until the next refresh.

 

[Scrooged]

If it doesn't go below 30fps....why is this a problem?

 

[Apocryphon]

If it doesn't go below 30fps....why is this a problem?

Screen tearing.

 

[Lion]

Screen tearing.

If that is the result why would they do that?

 

[Orayn]

Screen tearing.

No, you can still vsync it to 60 and have it run at less than that. However...

If it doesn't go below 30fps....why is this a problem?

Judder. Most displays refresh at a maximum of 60 Hz, so any framerate that doesn't divide evenly into 60 means showing frames an uneven number of times, which leads to a noticeable decrease in smoothness even if the framerate is constant.

60 FPS

1 2 3 4 5 6

30 FPS

1 1 2 2 3 3

20 FPS

1 1 1 2 2 2

45 FPS

1 2 3 3

4 5 6 6

7 8 9 9

It's basically a consistent, intermittent framerate drop. You can mitigate it with various blending/processing techniques, but you don't want to deal with it if you don't have to.

 

[ethomaz]

Games on PS4 get better every day... how can?

 

[Kinyou]

I wonder if this will happen more next gen.

Plenty of games had unlocked a framerate on the PS3, while on the Xbox 360 they tended to be locked on 30.

Personally I prefer it to be locked because I don't really like when the games dips in and out of 60FPS smoothness.

 

[Iacobellis]

Plenty of games had unlocked a framerate on the PS3, while on the Xbox 360 they tended to be locked on 30.

Which ones? I noticed PS3 games to dip below 30 more often.

 

[Orayn]

Plenty of games had unlocked a framerate on the PS3, while on the Xbox 360 they tended to be locked on 30.

Personally I prefer it to be locked because I don't really like when the games dips in and out of 60FPS smoothness.

Most of Rockstar's PS3 games were the other way around, which is arguably what made the PS3 version of GTA V the superior one.

 

[FaintDeftone]

As long as it doesn't drop below 30, I'm good.

 

[Kinyou]

Which ones? I noticed PS3 games to dip below 30 more often.

I distinctly recall Brothers in Arms Hells Highway to be locked on the 360 and unlocked on the PS3.

Infamous 1+2 and GoW 3 were unlocked as well if I remember correctly.

 

[SmileBit199]

Would it be possible that GG knows what they're doing?

Perhaps the game runs smoothly 95% of the time and rarely drops to 30 fps?

 

[Putty]

I'm good with this if it doesn't go under. I would guess the next game they'll hit 60.

 

[Portugeezer]

No, you can still vsync it to 60 and have it run at less than that. However...

What if you screen tear when there is a double frame, instead of displaying the same frame twice?

I play BF3 on PC at 45fps and it feels much smoother than 30fps.

 

[nomis]

I'm playing batman arkham origins with triple buffering right now, and it's definitely below 60 when there is a lot of physx happening. Still awesome.

 

[IcyBlueStrawberry]

My knee jerk reaction is to lament GG's design choice because I can't stand variable framerates, but I'll reserve my judgements until I actually play the game.

 

[PnCIa]

The framerate wont rise and fall from 30 - 60 - 30 if they use tripple buffering, and not using it would be dumb.
Regarding judder/stuttering, CoD has a variable framerate and no one cares about this.

 

[Saberus]

Here is a video from the Brazil show.. smoother frame rate.

http://vimeo.com/77845008

 

[iamshadowlark]

So in all these threads about fps on GAF, the summation I'm getting is that all games need to be 30 or 60 and no other possible framerates exist



.

Well, good thing we live in the real world where there isn't constant dick measuring and everybody doesn't pretend to be experts.

 

[dark10x]

So now you don't trust GG? jesus

They have already stated it's running between 35-40fps, so it's most likely rarely going above 40(unless staring at the sky) and not below 30. How is that bad? Pls one of you who think you know better than GG themselves, explain why it's soooo bad.

35 fps looks much worse on a 60 hz display than 30 fps as a result of judder...just as we've been saying this whole time. It's a bad choice for those of us that value consistency.

 

[Apocryphon]

No, you can still vsync it to 60 and have it run at less than that. However...

All lod [level of detail] problems have been fixed – no more pop ups!
They have added moving mist to the level -looks rad
They have added God rays to the level. All the trees are casting God rays
It has screen tearing but the frame rate is solid
Depth of field is back and they have added object based blur
Particle effects seem lacking compared to the latest multiplayer footage

LINK

I dunno. I still suspect there will be screen tearing. Every video I have watched this week has had what I've taken to be purposefully slow "cinematic" pans to hide screen tearing.

 

[dark10x]

LINK

I dunno. I still suspect there will be screen tearing. Every video I have watched this week has had what I've taken to be purposefully slow "cinematic" pans to hide screen tearing.

There's no tearing in the footage floating around this week. Plain and simple.

 

[Zeth]

I definitely notice 30 -> 60 fps. Anything over 60 though, no difference for me.

You would need a 120hz display for that, but you'd notice.

 

[Loudninja]

LINK

I dunno. I still suspect there will be screen tearing. Every video I have watched this week has had what I've taken to be purposefully slow "cinematic" pans to hide screen tearing.

We have new footage now.

No tearing.

 

[Orayn]

What if you screen tear when there is a double frame, instead of displaying the same frame twice?

I play BF3 on PC at 45fps and it feels much smoother than 30fps.

Yep, you can double up on certain frames instead of tearing. Intermediate framerates can look alright if there's little fluctuation, but it would still be nice to have the option of capping it at 30.

LINK

I dunno. I still suspect there will be screen tearing. Every video I have watched this week has had what I've taken to be purposefully slow "cinematic" pans to hide screen tearing.

I'm aware that some KS:SF footage has tearing, I was just saying that you can vsync it to 60 and not tear.

 

[Man]

If it doesn't go below 30fps....why is this a problem?

Screen tearing.

Killzone SF is triple-buffered so it doesn't screen tear.
Variable framerates will make it judder though. It means that framerate variations will make some frames show twice and others not (since the TV hz is in no way synced to the Console fps, something which G-Sync or locked 30/60 fixes btw). This means that the game will seem to stutter or 'speed up' and down even if you pan the camera at a constant speed.

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

Eh, I would rather it locked, but whatever.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Came for responses saying this is a bad thing somehow. Wasn't disappointed.

 

[Wynnebeck]

35 fps looks much worse on a 60 hz display than 30 fps as a result of judder...just as we've been saying this whole time. It's a bad choice for those of us that value consistency.

lol GG is damned if you do, damned if you don't. I know I value FPS a lot as I bought DmC on PC just to make sure I had 60+FPS, but this is quite ridiculous. I'd rather have a game have the ability to hit a higher framerate than stuck on one locked, but that's just me.

 

[dark10x]

lol GG is damned if you do, damned if you don't. I know I value FPS a lot as I bought DmC on PC just to make sure I had 60+FPS, but this is quite ridiculous. I'd rather have a game have the ability to hit a higher framerate than stuck on one locked, but that's just me.

So many people in this topic simply don't seem to understand how this stuff works. It's starting to become frustrating.

 

[Wurdfurd]

Awful.

Correct.

Good.

Incorrect.

 

[VFX_Veteran]

I'd personally want it locked too - either 30 or 60fps.

In any case, I think people will get used to it and still enjoy the game.

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

I can't imagine people would be bothered by "judder". If it was 30 FPS, it would just be constantly slower. I don't see how variable framerate above 30 would ever be considered worse than 30.

30FPS with it being more smooth at times. Sounds good to me.

 

[Leb]

So many people in this topic simply don't seem to understand how this stuff works. It's starting to become frustrating.

That's pretty much the bottom line. It's rather difficult to have an informed conversation on the issue when there exists a widespread, fundamental misunderstanding of the underlying problems with this technology.

 

[Scrabble]

Why are people freaking out about this? Chances are this method is going to resemble the performance of GOW3 and Ascension, and those games are smooth as fuck. Just because you get stutter on your pc, doesn't mean you will out of a closed box being optimized for exactly for this kind of performance.

 

[UNCMark]

Yea, what is everyone fussing about. All my PC fps are tweaked to run between 40-60fps (best performance vs graphics IMO).

Because a variable framerate that jumps between 30 and 60, even on PC, sucks. But at least on PC many games give you the option to cap the framerate. This variable framerate is probably why some previews are stating that Knack and Killzone appear to be framey.

 

[crazepharmacist]

So is the frame rate similar between single and multiplayer now? 30-60 fps for both. I think I would have liked locked 30 and 60 with drops, respectively.

 

[dark10x]

That's pretty much the bottom line. It's rather difficult to have an informed conversation on the issue when there exists a widespread, fundamental misunderstanding of the underlying problems with this technology.

Precisely. There is simply too much ignorance in this thread and any attempts to explain how this works seems to fall flat.

I can't imagine people would be bothered by "judder". If it was 30 FPS, it would just be constantly slower. I don't see how variable framerate above 30 would ever be considered worse than 30.

30FPS with it being more smooth at times. Sounds good to me.

Myself and others are extremely bothered by it. It looks absolutely awful to my eyes.

The problem is that it would *NOT* be "more smooth", as you say. That's precisely why we're against it.

This variable framerate is probably why some previews are stating that Knack and Killzone appear to be framey.

Knack was previously dipping into the 20s, though, so it really did appear choppy. It seems to be running much faster now though still inconsistently.

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

Because a variable framerate that jumps between 30 and 60, even on PC, sucks. But at least on PC many games give you the option to cap the framerate. This variable framerate is probably why some previews are stating that Knack and Killzone appear to be framey.

"Framey" is a stupid made up word that doesn't mean anything. Any framerate above 30 is better than a "locked 30". It won't have screen tearing, just this "judder" and that's only because your going from a slower framerate to a quicker one and back. You would rather it just be "constant slow"? It makes no sense.

I agree with the poster who said it's only bad news if you value "consistency", but just repeat in your head that you are valuing consistently slow.

 

[Alo81]

The only thing I like about unlocked framerates is that when the time eventually comes where we can emulate them really well, we'll certainly be able to lock the game at 60fps.

 

[- J - D -]

"Framey" is a stupid made up word that doesn't mean anything. Any framerate above 30 is better than a "locked 30". It won't have screen tearing, just this "judder" and that's only because your going from a slower framerate to a quicker one and back. You would rather it just be "constant slow"? It makes no sense.

I agree with the poster who said it's only bad news if you value "consistency", but just repeat in your head that you are valuing consistently slow.

No, we are valuing consistently smooth.

 

[Apocryphon]

So the [forest level] build from earlier this month that had tearing is older than the build we've seen this week and the issue has been addressed?

 

[Leb]

The only thing I like about unlocked framerates is that when the time eventually comes where we can emulate them really well, we'll certainly be able to lock the game at 60fps.

That's an optimistic outlook; I salute you.

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

No, we are valuing consistently smooth.

In which case the higher framerate will make it even more so.

 

[dark10x]

"Framey" is a stupid made up word that doesn't mean anything. Any framerate above 30 is better than a "locked 30". It won't have screen tearing, just this "judder" and that's only because your going from a slower framerate to a quicker one and back. You would rather it just be "constant slow"? It makes no sense.

I agree with the poster who said it's only bad news if you value "consistency", but just repeat in your head that you are valuing consistently slow.

I can't argue with ignorance... :X

In which case the higher framerate will make it even more so.

No no no. This is factually incorrect.

 

[dEvAnGeL]

There's no tearing in the footage floating around this week. Plain and simple.

you keep arguing that there isn't any tearing, i asked you before, do you any proof of this? an article where they explain that the game is in fact triple buffered? im still waiting for you to back your comments with proof, im still waiting

 

[BadAss2961]

If it never dips below 30fps. Unlocked framerate > locked at 30fps. Let the game give you more frames where it can.

 

[Loudninja]

you keep arguing that there isn't any tearing, i asked you before, do you any proof of this? an article where they explain that the game is in fact triple buffered? im still waiting for you to back your comments with proof, im still waiting

We have new footage what is their more to say?