How can the game get more ambitious and incorporate more content from an unmet stretch goal, when a lot of the funding has been cut off?
Did he get additional funding from somewhere?
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My Kickstarter Nightmare: Soul Saga Edition
- Thread starter Elessartelrunya
- Start date
How can the game get more ambitious and incorporate more content from an unmet stretch goal, when a lot of the funding has been cut off?
Did he get additional funding from somewhere?
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I've gotta admit, I have a soft spot for KS horror stories. Ironically, they usually have the most info about what they did wrong.
thisisalan
Member
Super curious to hear what the beta is like and I haven't been able to find any video of it, other than the one released by the developer. It would be pretty astounding if all of this actually coalesced into a playable game.
Elaugaufein
Member
I pledged for this at Beta level, I'm downloading Ni No Kuni on my PS3 atm so I don't have the bandwidth to download the Beta but I'll download it when that finishes and give some impressions if no one else does.
Hadn't seen this before. Wow.
Beta footage doesn't look terrible, but it sure seems a far cry from what was promised. It's also clearly pre-alpha.
Elaugaufein
Member
Hmm.
Graphics wise:
Area movement: The look is consistent but even on the highest quality it still looks dated. Things seem too angular/linear and there seems something off about the outline. The field pose and animation for Garen looks kind of off too. There's also very little "idle" animation (Garen's cap "sways"). It isn't excessively bad though, think of a higher quality FFVIII and you've got the right idea (actually that's what looks off about the outline to, it looks like it's been put through a filter).
Dialogue: Uses more detailed sprites which change to fit the mood but aren't animated. It can be a little hard to tell who's talking in a dialogue.
Characters:
Garen switches between speaking like a hero and a villain in the middle of his dialogue. This may be intentional ?
Bardue seems really stereotypical - Overly enthusiastic, not all that bright , pseudo-Russian bouncer. And then he turns out to be a villain.
Meria: Interaction with the NPCs suggests she can be harsh but she seems pretty nice to Garen.
Interface:
Area:
Its hard to tell what can be interacted with: You can talk to some NPCs but not others. I haven't come across an object I can interact with although I've seen many that look like you should be able too. Doors/Area transitions are clearly marked.
The area is an airship with a relatively complex layout for a starting area, a map would have been nice, but since the area is safe you can just bungle around.
The inventory contents at the start don't seem to make much sense: (lots of basic armor) in addition to the standard revive/potion/hi-potion layout. You can equip any of the items and the armor seems to increase HP. In battle you still seem to be able to use potion items even if not equipped so not sure why they can be equipped.
Encounters appear on this map, and seem to "Aggro" and chase you if you get too close but you have to be really close.
Battle:
There's a turn order display, using text, significant characters in larger font. And a set of Attack/Defend/Item buttons. Battle animations are simple.
This also feels less polished: The layout/spacing doesn't seem quite right , and it feels like the action buttons are just hovering in space.
On level up you get to choose one of 3 stats to upgrade (Power/Health/Speed) the icons used for Power/Health are the same as Attack/Defend (hopefully just placeholders?).
Menu:
Portraits seem to be missing.
The party organization interface is weird, there's one empty slot on the second row that can't be interacted with. Charcter's removed from the top end up to its side (I'd guess meaning they are out of the party?). Maybe it's supposed to be a pet slot or something ? Garen doesn't appear on it but by putting the 2nd party member in the 2nd slot you can change the party order.
I can't seem to change Garen's equipment after the 2nd party member joins either.
Polish:
There's several spelling and grammar errors but its readable.
An entire boss fight is missing. Text just pops up explaining what happens.
Overall:
The Beta is really short like <20 minutes. Seems pretty raw for a presentation beta (instead of an in house one).
I don't know how I feel all in all, it seems to show that something is happening but it seems really rough for the length of time its been. Maybe I need to check out the Forum and see what the status updates are since I haven't really been following.
Graphics wise:
Area movement: The look is consistent but even on the highest quality it still looks dated. Things seem too angular/linear and there seems something off about the outline. The field pose and animation for Garen looks kind of off too. There's also very little "idle" animation (Garen's cap "sways"). It isn't excessively bad though, think of a higher quality FFVIII and you've got the right idea (actually that's what looks off about the outline to, it looks like it's been put through a filter).
Dialogue: Uses more detailed sprites which change to fit the mood but aren't animated. It can be a little hard to tell who's talking in a dialogue.
Characters:
Garen switches between speaking like a hero and a villain in the middle of his dialogue. This may be intentional ?
Bardue seems really stereotypical - Overly enthusiastic, not all that bright , pseudo-Russian bouncer. And then he turns out to be a villain.
Meria: Interaction with the NPCs suggests she can be harsh but she seems pretty nice to Garen.
Interface:
Area:
Its hard to tell what can be interacted with: You can talk to some NPCs but not others. I haven't come across an object I can interact with although I've seen many that look like you should be able too. Doors/Area transitions are clearly marked.
The area is an airship with a relatively complex layout for a starting area, a map would have been nice, but since the area is safe you can just bungle around.
The inventory contents at the start don't seem to make much sense: (lots of basic armor) in addition to the standard revive/potion/hi-potion layout. You can equip any of the items and the armor seems to increase HP. In battle you still seem to be able to use potion items even if not equipped so not sure why they can be equipped.
Encounters appear on this map, and seem to "Aggro" and chase you if you get too close but you have to be really close.
Battle:
There's a turn order display, using text, significant characters in larger font. And a set of Attack/Defend/Item buttons. Battle animations are simple.
This also feels less polished: The layout/spacing doesn't seem quite right , and it feels like the action buttons are just hovering in space.
On level up you get to choose one of 3 stats to upgrade (Power/Health/Speed) the icons used for Power/Health are the same as Attack/Defend (hopefully just placeholders?).
Menu:
Portraits seem to be missing.
The party organization interface is weird, there's one empty slot on the second row that can't be interacted with. Charcter's removed from the top end up to its side (I'd guess meaning they are out of the party?). Maybe it's supposed to be a pet slot or something ? Garen doesn't appear on it but by putting the 2nd party member in the 2nd slot you can change the party order.
I can't seem to change Garen's equipment after the 2nd party member joins either.
Polish:
There's several spelling and grammar errors but its readable.
An entire boss fight is missing. Text just pops up explaining what happens.
Overall:
The Beta is really short like <20 minutes. Seems pretty raw for a presentation beta (instead of an in house one).
I don't know how I feel all in all, it seems to show that something is happening but it seems really rough for the length of time its been. Maybe I need to check out the Forum and see what the status updates are since I haven't really been following.
Elessartelrunya
Member
Thanks for the impressions. From what you just said, and a few videos I saw, this "beta" sounds like it was a rush-job to get something out before the end of the year...
I hate to sound so negative, but it's clear this guy is in over his head. According to the forum/most recent update;
This, to me, sounds like he's trying to justify why the game is taking so long. It also clearly shows that he didn't have a clue as to what he was doing when he launched this project. It's as if he's trying to gain sympathy for all the hours he's putting into the game?
Meh, I don't know.
I hate to sound so negative, but it's clear this guy is in over his head. According to the forum/most recent update;
This, to me, sounds like he's trying to justify why the game is taking so long. It also clearly shows that he didn't have a clue as to what he was doing when he launched this project. It's as if he's trying to gain sympathy for all the hours he's putting into the game?
Meh, I don't know.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Please make such thread, great idea
Beta really does sound like it was a rushed job (I mean, this game was suppose to come out over the summer I think). Anyways, I could honestly care less if this ever gets completed or not at this point and I'm not surprised that backers have fallen through (when you're not a developer with a history behind your back, people are going to get suspicious and what not)
Ninja Scooter
Member
That's odd, it looks completely different than what was originally pitched, which IIRC was more of chibi style throwback to PSone and prior gen JRPGs. Now it looks more like something that would have been on Dreamcast or early PS2.
Kickstarter projects get delayed all the time. He's clearly working on the game so I'm not sure why you insist on demonizing him. At the very least this proves he's not a scammer like so many people accused him of.
autoduelist
Member
I think you're reading wayyyy too much into it. The dude's just saying he's working hard. He probably is.
Elessartelrunya
Member
I'm not "demonizing" him as you said, just pointing out that it seems he's full of excuses...
Considering the original art style was very "chibi" in style, it's really disappointing to see this turn into a FF clone. Went from somewhat unique to cliched and dime a dozen.
thisisalan
Member
Somebody posted an hour-long playthrough of the beta: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHS52bplA0A
From flipping through the video, things definitely look a bit rough, but this is still way more of a functional game than the earlier updates led me to expect. Still tons of work left to go, though, so more power to the dev if he can actually pull this off.
From flipping through the video, things definitely look a bit rough, but this is still way more of a functional game than the earlier updates led me to expect. Still tons of work left to go, though, so more power to the dev if he can actually pull this off.
Cheshire_Buddha
Member
That looks worse than the alpha battle footage.
I was hyped when this was announced, but now I'll just have to skip it.
I was hyped when this was announced, but now I'll just have to skip it.
Elessartelrunya
Member
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...ssics/posts/1070379?ref=backer_project_update
For anyone that's still following this. Just received the e-mail from Kickstarter.
EDIT: and I just tried to log into the forum and it's saying user not found...
For anyone that's still following this. Just received the e-mail from Kickstarter.
EDIT: and I just tried to log into the forum and it's saying user not found...
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Is there a video of the new beta?
For one dude's work, I think it's acceptable.
For what that one dude promised backers, it's pretty damn bad.
Worthintendo
Member
gah, I really wish he had kept the original Art Style, this just lacks character 
This isn't what I backed
This isn't what I backed Admiral Woofington
Member
To be honest as long as the game ends up being released I'll play it. But it feels so lifeless.
YuriLowell
Member
doesn't look too bad for one guys work.
I was looking for the right word and lifeless fits perfectly.
I loved the mana/musashi/threads of fate look.
thomasmahler
Member
Honestly, I can see why the dude in the OP is disappointed, but this kinda stuff happens ALL THE TIME in game development. Game Development is very, very difficult has many processes that are basically impossible to predict.
You're not really an 'investor' if you backed 20 bucks - You're a 'backer'. And if you use money to back someone, you're backing that person in good faith that that specific person will pull off what he's saying he'll be able to pull off, which is why people trust the old school creators more than some new studio that says this or that, simply because they have a proven track record. Publishers invest into TALENT, they don't necessarily invest into what the developer PITCHES initially, since the product might completely change through the course of its development. And the developer isn't really at fault for that, that's just part of the process.
So I can understand the disappointment, but that's just part of the deal, it's a risk you take and if you're unaware of that risk, it's really your own fault. I bet Activision was hoping for better Metacritics for Destiny when they poured 500 million bucks into the project, but even then you can never predict the outcome.
A lot of these kickstarters are kinda ridiculous if you have any idea about game development. You constantly see people asking for 50k or 100k to create games that'd take a professional studio with a proven track record 10-15m to make. If you pour your money into that kinda stuff just based on a bunch of concept art and a bunch of text a person wrote up... then yup, you probably didn't make a very wise investment.
You're not really an 'investor' if you backed 20 bucks - You're a 'backer'. And if you use money to back someone, you're backing that person in good faith that that specific person will pull off what he's saying he'll be able to pull off, which is why people trust the old school creators more than some new studio that says this or that, simply because they have a proven track record. Publishers invest into TALENT, they don't necessarily invest into what the developer PITCHES initially, since the product might completely change through the course of its development. And the developer isn't really at fault for that, that's just part of the process.
So I can understand the disappointment, but that's just part of the deal, it's a risk you take and if you're unaware of that risk, it's really your own fault. I bet Activision was hoping for better Metacritics for Destiny when they poured 500 million bucks into the project, but even then you can never predict the outcome.
A lot of these kickstarters are kinda ridiculous if you have any idea about game development. You constantly see people asking for 50k or 100k to create games that'd take a professional studio with a proven track record 10-15m to make. If you pour your money into that kinda stuff just based on a bunch of concept art and a bunch of text a person wrote up... then yup, you probably didn't make a very wise investment.
I said it when the Kickstarter was active and I'll say it again. This looked way, way more ambitious than this guy's abilities could manage, and as a programmer it raised all sorts of red flags once I read about it. It's his first game, isn't it? Of course it was going to get a reduced scope eventually, and of course it wasn't going to match what he promised.
The game description sounded too much like what a kid would write in a notebook for his "dream game".
The game description sounded too much like what a kid would write in a notebook for his "dream game".
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
The way that cape stays curled when standing still makes me hurt inside.
I had such high hopes for this one.
I had such high hopes for this one.
A lot of people wanted something different than the initial chibi-ish artstyle. So they went through a load of art revisions (hiring / switching artist) and character redesigns to get to where they are now, with much of it being voted on by backers.
I liked the old Toon shade-ish style too, but the current look is actually very similar to something Dreamcast level like Skies of Arcadia, so I can't say I hate it, or find it "soulless". The UI is dreadful, but I'm sure there's time to make it more lively.
I didn't back this way-back-when, but it is one of the projects I remain interested in. I'm just glad it's still alive. It feels like so many of these KS games take forever and a day to come out, or that they really fail to stay relevant and in the public eye between KS success and release. A shame for those who didn't back, but fully intend to buy once the final product releases.
LurkerPrime
Member
Two minutes in... Bardue's accent and those hover-capes are killing me.
I really like the classical "talking portraits" style of cinematic, though. Reminds me of Fire Emblem or something, only with... decidedly worse writing. (Please get an editor.)
At least your nightmare appears to still be being developed. Mine disappeared without a trace. We barely knew ye, Mansion Lord
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
I just realized something that has me concerned.
This looks to be akin to a very early alpha. Why is this guy calling it a beta version 3?
This looks to be akin to a very early alpha. Why is this guy calling it a beta version 3?
superNESjoe
Member
As a dev myself, it screams "over my head but trying to save face". At the very least, it's commendable that the project continues despite being brutally more challenging than the dev originally intended.
I hope things work out for this in the end, nobody wins when a game is bad.
Poetic.Injustice
Member
Looks great to me given that it's done by one person.
Elessartelrunya
Member
gah, I really wish he had kept the original Art Style, this just lacks character
You took the words out of my mouth
In the end, I hope the people who backed this game enjoy it. So far, from what I've seen (and heard), this game is not for me. Very cringe-worthy moments in the "beta" and I don't see it improving.Considering I REALLY liked the chibi art style and that is really what sold me (a cute chibi RPG)...this has been quite the disappointment. I just hope I don't have any issue getting my refund as the dev said he would do (when the game releases).
Elessartelrunya
Member
A few beta versions have been released, looks like a (IMO) crude FFVIII clone. Will definitely be asking for my refund when this thing finally releases. It's unfortunate I have to wait that long to get my money back.
thisisalan
Member
The whole Godus kickstarter press cycle reminded me to check up on the blog for this game and I was actually rather impressed with how it's come along. Yeah, it looks super rough and yeah it's far from what was promised in the Kickstarter, but kudos to the dev for sticking with it. It appears that he's got the playable foundation for an actual game, although certainly still a very long, difficult road left ahead (Wii U stretch goal, anyone?).
Elessartelrunya
Member
It's December 2015 and still no game, but I'll at least give credit to the guy as he's continued to plug away at this. I'm still banned from the forum, and we're well passed the initial release window, but it looks like we might actually get a game out of this mess...
http://www.disastercake.com/blog/soul-saga-update-24-performance-enhancements/
http://www.disastercake.com/blog/soul-saga-update-24-performance-enhancements/
Elessartelrunya
Member
I hate to bump such an old thread, but I just ready an message that said the game is finally releasing July this year! Good news for anyone who backed the game.
The creator cited a lot of personal hurdles that I'll say "no comment" on, but either way, it's nice to see this wasn't a complete loss like many of us initially feared.
The creator cited a lot of personal hurdles that I'll say "no comment" on, but either way, it's nice to see this wasn't a complete loss like many of us initially feared.
richard4481
Member
Wow... better late than never I guess!