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[Ninja Scooter]

It appears that way, the reason posted in the other thread was that he went there to look for an artist.

And then didn't he find one.

Make what you will of that.

Yeah, you guys (backers) are screwed.


If there's one thing KS has really opened people's eyes to it's that making games is hard. It requires managing money in a way that someone with a cool JRPG idea is not always equipped to do.

 

[Cheddahz]

I think this just got a lot more exposure, which is a good thing

 

[sensui-tomo]

only game i've ever backed was Shovel knight, thank god its been the same more or less.
Also i feel for ya OP, you win some and you loose some.

 

[Gbraga]

Why would they do that to the girl? I actually like the boy's redesign #1 the most, but the original design for the girl is soooo much better.

 

[Matt Attack]

I backed this. I preferred the older character designs, but I don't hate the new ones so I'm not really too upset about that. The creator's behavior, on the other hand, is really appalling. I'm incredibly disappointed to see how he's taking this criticism.

 

[koutoru]

Has anyone here been sent the registration code to log in to the disaster cake forums?
I backed the game but I haven't seen it in my email yet.

 

[twentytwo22]

I loved the original Kickstarter pitch but didn't back this simply because he was a one-man team with absolutely no background in game development and had already been working on the project for years before the initial kickstarter pitch.

Looks like I dodged a bullet. What a jackass.

 

[jello44]

Disaster Cake indeed.

 

[Frodo]

I actually posted a (terrible) attempt to "improve" one of her redesigns. People seemed to like it based on comments on that particular update, though clearly he went in a different direction.

I like your suggestion. The amazing difference a little bit of cloth can make. I think you should work to Squeenix as a costume/character adviser. Or maybe you should have suggested something along the same lines during the development of Virtue's Last Reward...

 

[Ravidrath]

But then again, Kickstarter has no guarantees, you basically fund an idea and the people behind it, but not a certain outcome.

There are "no guarantees," and then there's something like this. In no universe was this likely to succeed.

The guy has never made a game before, and he's starting out with a 3D JRPG on multiple platforms. And thought he could make it for $60k with a handful of people.

So, let's put that in perspective: he's taking on basically the largest-scope genre there is, for his first game project, with not enough money to pay one actual mid-level industry professional for a year. Those are all gargantuan red flags to me.

Stuff like this is why we actually published our budget in our Indiegogo campaign. We took a lot of flak for it being "too much" in some peoples' eyes, but the threat to most campaigns is what is "too little."

I think GAF needs a "DevGAF: Rate this KickStarter" thread or something, because any developer should've been able to tell you this was not going to work out and told you to steer clear.

 

[Tellaerin]

I actually like the new art style.

Seconded, based on the pics in the OP. I generally prefer more normal proportions to chibis myself.

That said, the issues surrounding this project are really unfortunate. I feel bad for the backers, and I hope that this developer can get his shit together and deliver on his promises by the time everything's said and done.

 

[Salamando]

Only reason I backed this was because of some alpha-gameplay they showed off. Figured if they had some characters modeled and animated, with some type of combat setup, they'd actually be able to make something.

Now that everything's getting redesigned, looks like all that initial work was for nothing. Like he intentionally moved the starting line further back from where we thought he'd be starting from.

 

[Elessartelrunya]

I like your suggestion. The amazing difference a little bit of cloth can make. I think you should work to Squeenix as a costume/character adviser. Or maybe you should have suggested something along the same lines during the development of Virtue's Last Reward...

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but I agree with your comment She's a mechanic who will be battling monsters...more clothing the better! (logic?)

 

[Concept17]

Thinks they can make a Final Fantasy scope game.

Hires amateur artists.

Has to reduce/change everything.

Sounds about right.

 

[LiK]

If someone wants a refund over changes they don't agree with just give it to them instead of banning them.

 

[Frodo]

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but I agree with your comment She's a mechanic who will be battling monsters...more clothing the better! (logic?)

Not being sarcastic at all. I do genuinely like your suggestion and I'm a little bit too tired of people (mostly women) scantly clad in video games.

 

[Velcro Fly]

Funding a kickstarter is always a crapshoot I feel. Changing the game a bit isn't the end of the world.

Behaving like that is clearly out of line.

 

[PixyJunket]

Yeah, you guys (backers) are screwed.

I didn't back, thankfully.

I did vote it up on Greenlight though.

 

[Elessartelrunya]

If someone wants a refund over changes they don't agree with just give it to them instead of banning them.

THANK YOU! That's exactly what I thought. Yes, if A LOT of people ask for refunds, that could potentially harm the project, but it sounds like Mike already did that to himself with his trip and multiple artists.

I posted on the forum immediately after I saw he locked (me out of) the dev diaries. He deleted that post and banned me within minutes of my posting. I immediately sent him an e-mail requesting a refund. That has still not been answered. Him and I could have avoided this mess if he had simply replied back and agreed to refund the money.

Hell, I probably would have respected him if he issued the refund and simply said something like "It doesn't seem we're on the same page for this game."

 

[Zeth]

There are "no guarantees," and then there's something like this. In no universe was this likely to succeed.

The guy has never made a game before, and he's starting out with a 3D JRPG on multiple platforms. And thought he could make it for $60k with a handful of people.

So, let's put that in perspective: he's taking on basically the largest-scope genre there is, for his first game project, with not enough money to pay one actual mid-level industry professional for a year. Those are all gargantuan red flags to me.

Stuff like this is why we actually published our budget in our Indiegogo campaign. We took a lot of flak for it being "too much" in some people's eyes, but the threat to most campaigns is what is "too little."

I think GAF needs a "DevGAF: Rate this KickStarter" thread or something, because any developer should've been able to tell you this was not going to work out and told you to steer clear.

Awesome idea. Reading the way the guy is struggling to hire and pay freelance artists for concept art/models is scary - I can't imagine trying to puzzle together the entire game like that. I see no scenario in which this project ends on time and within budget as pitched.

 

[kuppy]

There are "no guarantees," and then there's something like this. In no universe was this likely to succeed.

The guy has never made a game before, and he's starting out with a 3D JRPG on multiple platforms. And thought he could make it for $60k with a handful of people.

Yes, which was why I for example liked this campaign but decided to rather wait for the finished game that I can still support when it is released.

Also, from the Kickstarter FAQ:

Is this the final artwork?
The character models you see are what I was able to gather using my out-of-pocket budget. After the Kickstarter they will all see enhancements that will greatly improve their visual design. The environmental art used is actually stock art. If the project reaches a certain stretch goal, then I can bring on an environmental artist to custom make all the environments to fit the characters and world like a glove!

Not trying to defend anything, just want to mention it. Enhancements ≠ Redesigns in my opinion.

 

[koutoru]

I want this game to be a success.

However, if he want's to release the game by this July, there's going to be problems unless he gives us more than just artwork.

 

[Grief.exe]

Why did he change it to this degree? People funded it based on the original designs and the developers obviously liked them enough originally to put that foot forward.

Changing them to that extent costs some serious time and money.

 

[Cheddahz]

Changing them to that extent costs some serious time and money.

It also involves a trip to Japan as well, lol

 

[Stone Ocean]

Every time I read on updates for this game it's about design changes. It makes me feel like they have nothing beyond that initial demo after all this time.

You don't get to be mad at someone asking for a refund if you change the project this much. Like someone said, Kickstarter isn't meant to be a preorder, we're fucking publishing you. You have creative freedom of course but don't expect unconditional support if you change shit people backed for.

I think GAF needs a "DevGAF: Rate this KickStarter" thread or something, because any developer should've been able to tell you this was not going to work out and told you to steer clear.

That would be awesome, actually.

 

[Elessartelrunya]

Yes, which was why I for example liked this campaign but decided to rather wait for the finished game that I can still support when it is released.

Also, from the Kickstarter FAQ:

Not trying to defend anything, just want to mention it. Enhancements ≠ Redesigns in my opinion.

That's how I interpreted it...I figured money had been spent on the original designs, why would someone throw that way (multiple times)?

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Wow, the "after" designs and render give a Megaman Legends vibe..
I know that change is what the OP is complaining about, but now I'm interested in the game (if it gets made)

 

[Velcro Fly]

The dude in redesign #2 looks like a mix between Cloud from FF7 and Roxas/Ventus from Kingdom Hearts.

 

[Shengar]

Changing game design as the development went on is fine
But kicking a backer in the nut just because they deliver criticism and want their money back because some disagreement over the game development? What a way to tarnish yourself for future kickstarter project.

It also involves a trip to Japan as well, lol

Does he really use Kickstarter money for that? Also why go to Japan when Pixiv exist?

 

[Stumpokapow]

That would be awesome, actually.

It would be one post.

"Is this a person who has never made a game before? Are they promising a game more amazing than the best professional games you've seen for 6 months minimum wage salary? Do they mostly just have badass concept or pixel art? Are you considering backing it because the game is 'like' ten famous games you loved? Don't back it."

 

[MagnaderAlpha]

Wait, did they revert the girl's design back to her red-headed busty one? To my knowledge, the most recent design of Elise looks a LOT like her original design, just as a brunette(even has the hat, and is rather well covered).

I'm fine with the guy looking Cloud-like. It's not like that thing never happened before, especially regarding Japanese character designs. I mean, as it is, the original Mithos looked like Marche from FFTA(maybe too much like Marche).

Though, that's just me. I'm actually fine with the newer character designs(though I do like the original design of the villain better, as I'm a sucker for evil looking knights). Gameplay-wise, if it plays like a traditional JRPG, I'm fine with that!

 

[Cheddahz]

Does he really use Kickstarter money for that?

Most likely, since he took the trip after the game was funded to look for artists

Yup, that’s right. I went to Japan last month and scoured for artists with my Japanese Branch HR Manager, Nozomi, to acquire some fresh talent to work on Soul Saga. It was a fun time, but it was 100% work, so I didn’t get to experience a whole lot of extra stuff. I would say my favorite part was the $1 sushi plates, $1 ramen refills (REAL ramen), and all you can drink booze for $15. Oh, and this adorable bear named Kumamon. I also acquired art books to get a lot of examples to create a training document for new artists.

 

[Ravidrath]

It would be one post.

"Is this a person who has never made a game before? Are they promising a game more amazing than the best professional games you've seen for 6 months minimum wage salary? Do they mostly just have badass concept or pixel art? Are you considering backing it because the game is 'like' ten famous games you loved? Don't back it."

Apparently it's a service that's needed.

I think modding and Kickstarters have really distorted the public perception of what it costs to make games. And most of the people giving to these are probably HS and college students, so they don't know how much it costs to support a team, etc. I mean, did you see the hyper-poisonous thread about our IGG campaign?

I can really only think of one other successful KS this egregious, though.

 

[Zeth]

It would be one post.

"Is this a person who has never made a game before? Are they promising a game more amazing than the best professional games you've seen for 6 months minimum wage salary? Do they mostly just have badass concept or pixel art? Are you considering backing it because the game is 'like' ten famous games you loved? Don't back it."

Sticky this thread!

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

Another problem with the redesign #2 - it's drastically more detailed than the original design. More detailed models mean you need more intricate & sophisticated animation for them to not look funny. Likewise, you need more detailed area art, otherwise the characters will look out of place. In short, you're looking at more costs all around.

Also, at the current rate of transformation, it'll only take one or two more revisions before we're in full-blown Dragon's Crown territory.

 

[EDarkness]

There are "no guarantees," and then there's something like this. In no universe was this likely to succeed.

The guy has never made a game before, and he's starting out with a 3D JRPG on multiple platforms. And thought he could make it for $60k with a handful of people.

So, let's put that in perspective: he's taking on basically the largest-scope genre there is, for his first game project, with not enough money to pay one actual mid-level industry professional for a year. Those are all gargantuan red flags to me.

Stuff like this is why we actually published our budget in our Indiegogo campaign. We took a lot of flak for it being "too much" in some peoples' eyes, but the threat to most campaigns is what is "too little."

I think GAF needs a "DevGAF: Rate this KickStarter" thread or something, because any developer should've been able to tell you this was not going to work out and told you to steer clear.

I think it depends on what's going on. My project is an RPG and only has two people working on it. But because most of the engine work has been done already with Unity, my project is fairly far along. The biggest obstacle has been art, which is expensive. The programming side is relatively easy, but then I'm more into that. I do think whoever is working on the game has to be organized and able to accept their limitations. Something I had to learn the hard way so many years ago.

 

[Elessartelrunya]

Most likely, since he took the trip after the game was funded to look for artists

We obviously can't be 100% positive kickstarter funds were spent on his trip to Japan, but the wording that you posted makes it sound like it...

Seeing as how I have to be up early for work, I just want to thank everyone who has been posting. No one has really outright attacked me. Some may disagree, but it's remained civil. THANK YOU! Whatever the outcome of this mess, it's nice to know other people also feel Mike Gale handled this the wrong way

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I The guy has never made a game before, and he's starting out with a 3D JRPG on multiple platforms. And thought he could make it for $60k with a handful of people.think GAF needs a "DevGAF: Rate this KickStarter" thread or something, because any developer should've been able to tell you this was not going to work out and told you to steer clear.

This would be both awesome and useful.

 

[Shengar]

Most likely, since he took the trip after the game was funded to look for artists

What the actual fuck. Most renowned Japanese artist even use Pixiv. If he want to talk directly to the said aritst, he could use Skype and no need to waste money on "talent searching". Who in the hell didn't use Pixiv in Japan if they are an artist?! Goddamnit I can't believe this, he even share his "joy side" of his supposedly "work trip".

EDIT: I'm still not sure whether if he use kickstarter money for that trip. But my point still stand that he doesn't need to go to japan just for talent searching. Pixiv already accomodate that, and he can save a lot of money.

 

[ferr]

Something interesting to me is that the picture of the 3d chibi blonde chick uses a cheap particle effect that's from the Unity Asset Store. If I read too much into that I would think not much effort was put into the chibi related assets.

 

[ZeroX03]

Jesus, this game was dirty when the Kickstarter first came out.

Was considering backing (PS1 JRPGs = my jam) so I asked a couple of questions on Facebook asking him about the production background of the people involved, and who would be writing the story, if the script was already written, etc. He barely answered my questions - from what I gathered, he was writing the script but hadn't finished it and had no experience in writing whatsoever - and when I pushed him on it he stopped replying. Think he also deleted my post too, I can't find it anymore.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

Mike posted on the Dev Diaries section that after re-evaluating things, he was going to have to make some "MAJOR" changes and go down a "different path" and "reduce the scope" of the project

Welp. That's pretty fucked. Glad I chose wisely to not back this.

 

[And_Gignac]

There´s should be some kind of legal backing for people who fund kickstarters to avoid this kind of shady situations to happen and, when they do, make the people who received the money accountable for.

 

[Femmeworth]

too many clothes -> regular 90s person -> not enough clothes

"Needs more sex appeal." -> "Did I stutter?" -> "Perfect!"

 

[Dire]

Personally I don't think it's reasonable to request a refund. When you back somebody you are giving them the money to bring their vision to fruition. If you don't agree with the direction they're taking then it makes sense to give that feedback but not to ask for a refund since the developer is, at that point, working off the assumption that their budget is $x.

It sounds like you may have ended up backing a rotten apple here, but that's more about stuff like him taking around the world holiday trip on backer money to hire somebody then deciding not to. I think it's the developers prerogative to ultimately decide on the direction they want to take their product. In the end if it disappoints you've lost your $ and they've lost their reputation.

 

[Ravidrath]

EDIT: I'm still not sure whether if he use kickstarter money for that trip. But my point still stand that he doesn't need to go to japan just for talent searching. Pixiv already accomodate that, and he can save a lot of money.

The extremely made-up sounding "Japanese Branch HR Manager" stuff sounds like a justification to use KS money, to me. Along with the "100% work" / "art books to help create training documents."

 

[Zabka]

Super Retro Squad underwent a change in style from 8-bit to 16-bit (for art and music) and, while I'm sure the game can still be great, it's a bit disappointing to give money for one thing and get handed another. Asking for a lot more money right after that was kinda fucked up too.

 

[Cheddahz]

EDIT: I'm still not sure whether if he use kickstarter money for that trip. But my point still stand that he doesn't need to go to japan just for talent searching. Pixiv already accomodate that, and he can save a lot of money.

Exactly. He even mentions in the next update that he ended up having to spend more money on new artists, since something happened between him and the artists he had previously hired

 

[Callibretto]

Something interesting to me is that the picture of the 3d chibi blonde chick uses a cheap particle effect that's from the Unity Asset Store. If I read too much into that I would think not much effort was put into the chibi related assets.

eh, I don't care if they use cheap stock particle effects as long as it look serviceable, I'm sure there are other area that will need more attention than the particle effect.

 

[EDarkness]

eh, I don't care if they use cheap stock particle effects as long as it look serviceable, I'm sure there are other area that will need more attention than the particle effect.

Seriously. My game is using a crapton of stuff I got off of the Asset Store. It's cheap, and gets the job done. I can't begrudge someone for doing the same. As long as the game plays well, that's all I need.