GhostTrick
Banned
Wtf ? Dual screen is excellent. Thats why I hope if they go for a single screen, it will be one allowing portrait mode for dual screen.
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Nintendo(?) Patent Application - Handheld with outward-facing linear image sensors
- Thread starter Disorientator
- Start date
Wtf ? Dual screen is excellent. Thats why I hope if they go for a single screen, it will be one allowing portrait mode for dual screen.
Alcotholic
Banned
Edit: Mistake post sorry.
Throwaway123456789
Member
It's about as gimmicky as the Vita's back touch screen, but I guess you weren't that interested in a Nintendo handheld in the first place.
Interceptor
Banned
Bye.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
Interesting idea, and befitting of Nintendo which have been quite fond of making use of cheap CCDs in different ways in their products over the last decade or so. I'll have to brainstorm some more use cases before I can form an opinion on whether or not this is something a new platform can truly benefit from having.
Edit: I will say this: side swiping to scroll on my phone feels pretty good.
Edit: I will say this: side swiping to scroll on my phone feels pretty good.
……forgetit
Member
It's more likely that Nintendo wants to implement scrolling in the next handheld and this is just one idea they had for it. We'll get this or the triggers but not both. Also don't take the drawing too seriously. These things are purposely vague and generic.
Yeah I know that's pretty much what I posted 3 times in the other thread lol I just don't read the full story this time and jumped into the wagon, sorry
Just an excuse to put the other form factor idea somewhere.pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
What're they building!?
A donut dispenser.
……forgetit
Member
Yeah I know that's pretty much what I posted 3 times in the other thread lol I just don't read the full story this time and jumped into the wagon, sorry
Yep, but the consistent facts speak more to me than the ones that keep changing. Nintendo pretty obviously wants a handheld that can be rotated on it's side for portrait use. I'd say expect the duel screen to be gone with this on the handheld.
I want to point out that there is no industry standard for controllers. Every generation new inputs are added to them or taken away. I don't think we have any one generation that keeps the exact same controller inputs from generation to generation. Saying Nintendo does not follow the standard is wrong when there is none. A standard would mean you could use the same controller for everything like USB drives the qwerty keyboard or more.
I'm not against them %100. I would just love to see what they could do once they move beyond dual screen limitations (at least for the NX). I think it's time...
...Then come back to it in 10-15 years (or by that time a bending OLED screen).
……forgetit
Member
I agree, but what's happening is happening.
Who said it was happening?
……forgetit
Member
It just seems incredibly likely with the patents we've had come out. Rotating the screen to use it as one long verticle one is a common theme in all of them.
Fourth Storm
Member
Probably in some fashion, but that doesn't mean both positions will necessarily have access to every button. I mean, even the DS can do this where necessary. And there are plenty of cell phone games that run primarily in portrait.
……forgetit
Member
The thing is putting a DS in portrait doesn't make the game portrait. It actually makes it landscape. For the system to work as it's described in both patents it needs a singular screen. I mean they could PSP go it, but I don't really see that happening.
Fourth Storm
Member
I agree that they should move towards one screen. And it makes sense to place the sticks/buttons in a position most comfortably accessible in landscape. Mobile games don't use buttons, so that doesn't make ports any inferior (and I'm sure you'll be able to access at least a couple of control options no matter how the unit is held). But that leaves the question on what to do with 3DS BC...
I expect Nintendo will be moving more towards emulation than adding on legacy transistors to the NX processor. They could do what they did w/ DS games on Wii U BC and display the screens side by side. I can't even think of any 3DS games that used both screens as one vertical display. I think Nintendo are at a point where they will say "good enough" on BC quality and focus on the future. New 3DS will probably be on shelves for a while as well for those who want the most pure experience with old software.
On somewhat of a sidenote, I almost see Star Fox Zero as the culmination of the dual screen concept for Miyamoto with Dragon Quest XI being the 3DS example (for the prelude at least). Ultimately, I expect they will decide to invest in technology that will create more of an impact on today's market. NX is supposed to be a brand new concept. We shouldn't expect anything less, especially with how they've fallen this last generation.
lwilliams3
Member
Was patents came out prior to getting Wii and Wii U information that accurately reflected what those systems were?
ArchedThunder
Banned
As long as we have a big enough and high enough resolution screen, not really. They can keep the UI pretty similar to how it is in Gen VI and then pop up the commands when it is time to pick what you want to do and it doesn't even need to take up much of the screen when it does pop up, it'll be just fine.
Yeah, if DS and 3DS games are or ever are playable on the device they can just let you pick if you want the screens stacked on top of each other or side by side, the resolution should be high enough for both.
……forgetit
Member
This I can agree with
Talk of single-screen hardware = No chance of DS/3DS Virtual Console ever existing.
Sorry folks, unless you're willing to completely sacrifice playability of what will be considered retro games in the future, 2 screens on both devices are going to stay, and the Wii U has all but cemented that in place. Its whole design was a generation too early, a way to unify the play experience between their handheld and console.
So y'all keep dreaming, 2 screens aren't going anywhere for Nintendo any time soon.
Sorry folks, unless you're willing to completely sacrifice playability of what will be considered retro games in the future, 2 screens on both devices are going to stay, and the Wii U has all but cemented that in place. Its whole design was a generation too early, a way to unify the play experience between their handheld and console.
So y'all keep dreaming, 2 screens aren't going anywhere for Nintendo any time soon.
ArchedThunder
Banned
I like how right above you we explain how it would work and then you make this post saying it's impossible.
Randomizer
Member
All these patents with weird two button handhelds is to throw everybody off of what the final product will actually look like obviously. It will have 2 analogs, 4 face buttons and at least 2 shoulder buttons/wheels.
There are a number of DS games that require both touchscreen and access to buttons, which a portrait layout to simulate 2 screens doesn't permit. The World Ends With You springs to mind immediately in this regard and is unplayable in its DS incarnation without that ease of button and screen access simultaneously.
So your solution that only partially resolves the emulation issue still stands as irrelevant to my point, in that it only resolves one of several issues in trying to replicate a dual-screen experience with one screen. And as such, I stand by my statement.
ArchedThunder
Banned
We weren't talking about portrait, they could give you the option to place the screens next to each other or on top of each other, the resolution of the system will likely be high enough to allow both.
NCR Redslayer
NeoGAF's Vegeta
At first i thought "gameboy advance", but when I see the rat amiibo, i think "pokedex."
So squeeze them next to one another in landscape so you have to squint at the details unless people think the next handheld has a Wii U sized screen? Also, how do you determine which is the top and bottom screen in that orientation? Through settings that you may have to change regularly for comfort based on the game you're playing? That sounds like an uncomfortable jury-rig solution that compromises the play experience to me, all for the sake of killing a second screen that can and does still have utility because people suddenly dislike it.
ArchedThunder
Banned
On a 5 inch screen it'd be just fine, and I'm not sure what you mean by "how do you tell which is the top screen" If they are stacked then the top screen is on top, if they are side by side then it's which ever side they picked, or you picked, it's not that difficult...
So you stack them on top of each other in landscape mode, using the height of the screen which is the most narrow part of it, making them even smaller to view?
And no, on a 5-inch screen, which is only slightly larger than ONE of the 3DS XL screens, each screen would be half the size that they are on their respective platforms, even when blown up beyond their original resolution. So again, hello squinting, and no, that wouldn't be "fine". It's a huge compromise.
And in side-by-side, it's either a mandated layout you can't change, which people would bitch about, or you have to pick the layout yourself based on preference, which could change on a game-by-game basis and frustrate players.
So again, what you suggest is a jury-rig that has very sub-optimal results. It may not be difficult, but that doesn't mean it works as a solution by default.
The easiest solution would be to put in a second screen again, and the struggling against that just leads to concessions that don't need to be made unless you're desperate to be rid of 2 screens, which Nintendo likely isn't.
nitekrawlwer
Member
Is it really unplayable or just an non optimal experience for you personally? I've never played TWEWY so I can't say one way or the other. I know you have an expected experience of the game having played it already. I know that it's hard to divorce ourselves from our own expectations and experiences. I would also argue that the very existence of this means that publishers at least don't feel the same way you do. I mean IGN gave it a 9.5 despite it being unplayable?
Given how backwards compatability threads go on GAF(anecdotal I know) It would seem this issue really isn't an issue to most gamers around here. Even if it does tend to mean a lot to me. Most people buy a console for the games made for it. Not legacy games.
TheHolyTurnip
Member
Wasn't there another Nintendo patent a couple of months back for moveable buttons? Hold the tablet in portrait mode, throw your buttons where you need them and BAM! BC friendly with one screen.
TWEWY's DS combat system required buttons and touchscreen used at the same time, unless you opt for your combat partner to be AI-assisted. The combat input methods were obviously reconfigured for smartphones when it was ported there. So unless they totally re-write the game to change the input method (which takes it out of the realm of emulation), emulation without the use of both buttons and touchscreen make it unplayable. And it's not the only game that does that, it's just the most severe example.
nitekrawlwer
Member
They don't HAVE to rewrite the game for that. Just like you can emulate playstation games on devices without buttons.
Are you actually proposing touchscreen-based software buttons as a legitimate substitute? The most reviled aspect of gaming on iOS and Android?
The lengths people will go to just to abandon this seemingly-offensive second screen continue to confound me.
ArchedThunder
Banned
The NX handheld isn't the DS3, so why should its design be affected by the DS line? A single larger touch screen can get most of the same functionality as two smaller screens with one being a touch screen (and even some extra functionality) and it will allow for better and easier compatibly with the NX console. I honestly don't even think that the NX handheld will have true backwards compatibility, we'll probably get DS and 3DS games down the road as VC games that come with a warning saying it's recommended you have an NX handheld with a large screen for maximum enjoyment.
The NX handheld's design will be affected more by the NX console than the DS since all signs point to the handheld and console really just being different powered SKUs of the same thing. If the NX console ships with a controller with a screen then the handheld will be a dual screen device, if it doesn't then it will probably be a single screen device.
The NX handheld's design will be affected more by the NX console than the DS since all signs point to the handheld and console really just being different powered SKUs of the same thing. If the NX console ships with a controller with a screen then the handheld will be a dual screen device, if it doesn't then it will probably be a single screen device.
Fourth Storm
Member
Are we really arguing off the basis of one soon to be 2 generation old third party game? Virtual Console has yet to be even proven as a major revenue driver for them going forward.
There is really no perfect way to both play past titles and offer modern advancements simultaneously. They'll probably even go with a capacitive screen for all its benefits. I can't see Reggie wanting to be nailed answering, "Single Touch," for another generation. If they have to make a decision based-on looking back or looking forward, I lean in favor of the latter.
There is really no perfect way to both play past titles and offer modern advancements simultaneously. They'll probably even go with a capacitive screen for all its benefits. I can't see Reggie wanting to be nailed answering, "Single Touch," for another generation. If they have to make a decision based-on looking back or looking forward, I lean in favor of the latter.
……forgetit
Member
DS backward compatibility is really unlikely. When was the last time a system was backwards compatible with two gens back?
I'm talking Virtual Console viability, which is very much on the table since it's already live on Wii U.
You're assuming that NX console won't have another GamePad, albeit with a smaller display.
The back catalog is a very important factor for Nintendo, as well as many of its fans, considering how frequently people vocalize their disappointment at the current state of it on Wii U and (to a lesser extent) 3DS, both on and off GAF. So considerations regarding how they will continue to make their back catalog viable in the most ideal way possible is very much a consideration that will continue to be made.
How is a single-screen handheld a "modern advancement"? There is a perfect way to play past titles: 2 screens. And arguing against that seems odd to me. What has a 2nd screen done to some of you to make the possibility of it so repulsive or downright offensive?
Also, Virtual Console made Nintendo a shitload of money in the Wii era, so it shows them that it is a revenue generator worth considering in every platform moving forward and its current state is a result of poor market conditions for their console. Give them better marketshare and both themselves and 3rd-parties will pour titles back into it, without question, and will return it to substantial revenue generation.
nitekrawlwer
Member
What I'm proposing is that people don't care about the controls for legacy games as much as you. You would just rather focus on input that isn't as good for old games instead of the new ones that will be made for said platform. If it's "unplayable" for you then bust out the hardware it was made for to have your "true" experience. A new Nintendo platform doesn't mean they steal your old on upon purchasing the new one.
Given Nintendos sparse VC on all consoles it is available for I don't know why you would expect much in the first place.
cartographer
Member
I don't fully understand reacting negatively to patent filings for a use of technology that may or may not be present in a future product because it seems "gimmicky" (or whatever the preferred term is).
I guess I can understand being hesitant about this application as far as how it appeals to personal practical use, but without context it's just a potential use of technology.
The scroll wheel thing seems pretty straightforward in how it would be useful given many of use use a scroll wheel every day for basic tasks.
There's a reason I'm not designing consumer products though. My brain doesn't work this way.
I guess I can understand being hesitant about this application as far as how it appeals to personal practical use, but without context it's just a potential use of technology.
The scroll wheel thing seems pretty straightforward in how it would be useful given many of use use a scroll wheel every day for basic tasks.
There's a reason I'm not designing consumer products though. My brain doesn't work this way.
But the new hardware will still have buttons, so that makes this argument invalid. The "old inputs" are still there. You're arguing for a reduction in visual output that alters the nature of inputs that would already be present on the device anyways for the sake of... what? I haven't heard a compelling argument from a consumer standpoint for a single-screen device, considering how little they add to the cost of construction at that size nowadays.
And people give a shit about "legacy" controls, even on new hardware. If they didn't, people wouldn't have reacted as poorly as they did to the "lol waggle" Wiimote and Sony would be a lot more adventurous with the Dual Shock re-designs. So your entire argument falls very very flat, in that regard. People like the familiarity.
nitekrawlwer
Member
Your second paragraph argues against your own point. The Wii is also the best selling Nintendo console because it did away with controls for legacy games. So no people in general don't care. Maybe people whom identify as gamers cared but we see how little ther overblown concerns mattered in the end.
If the console does have buttons then there is even less of a problem with the controls then you are making it out to be.
It's all gone to shit, no standards nowadays. No respect, damn kids. /s