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Nintendo talks rising dev costs, targeting 2+ million units for their games
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
...No? Even on WiiU there are games that sold much more than that. MK8 is over 5 millions, Splatoon is over 3 millions.
FreedomFighter
Member
I was just about to say this. Knew this would come up if I read far enough into the thread.
Two million sounds like a very healthy break even bar to have. Most of their AAA games sell far more than that.
Of course, the smaller bite-sized eShop projects have comparatively smaller budgets and manpower behind them.
If an AAA game does fail to reach that threshold, they'll have more than enough AAA games that far exceed the two million mark to compensate.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
both xenoblade games are actually mid budget games that dont need to sell 2 million, altho they actually get quite close to 1 million.
Have you played witcher 3?
Great game, but easily some of the worst left analog stick movement controls in a game since bad licensed n64 platformers ive played.
Even with the alternative option!
Japan doesn't buy Metroid. The ones you listed do. When a Metroid game sells well, it's getting about 90-95% of its' sales in the west. They don't want to make Metroid games when they consistently do less than 100k in Japan (and even that's being generous).
FreedomFighter
Member
Do we know where Xenoblade is now in the West in terms of sales?
I know the first month figures were great (although I forget how much it sold).
I think the assumption here is that the budget goes up quite a bit with the generation transition.
mickagau33
Member
2 millions seem reasonable indeed. Also didn't they say that Zelda NX/WiiU should sell 2 millions to be profitable ? Since it is their biggest game ever in terms of staff, it seems even more reasonnable. I'm not even sure the 2 millions apply to games such as Pikmin 3 (since it seems much smaller in terms of scope and content). Even IP that sell 10millions+ copies like new super mario or Animal Crossing don't seem to be the kind of software that seem utterly expensive to make.
i edited my post, but those are also bundled titles, there's actually a bundle with both MK8 and Splatoon inlcuded, if you look at game sales outside of bundled/mario/pokemon they're almost always well under the 1mln mark.
I wish they would at least make a 2D sequel. Give it to a small team of new developers like Splatoon. With all the recent popularity of Metroidvania indie titles, I got to imagine it would make a nice profit.
That's not true at all. No one really buys Fatal Frame but those keep getting made somehow.
I've said this in other threads, but I'll say it again here: I don't think there's a lot about Metroid as an IP that's particularly appealing. Once you get past the whole "first big action series with a female lead" thing that mattered more or less just in the era that the first game released in, I don't think there's really ever been much there to sell to a mass audience that aren't going to be swayed easily by critical acclaim. It's always lacked a hook, and despite efforts to make it easier to get into, like the streamlining in Prime 3 and having a bigger story focus in Other M, I still don't think they've found it.
Zelda attracts the same kind of audience that Metroid could, and that's rarely ever had issues with selling very well.
Ya, I also think the number here is presented for NX gen more than current. Costs will definitely be higher. That said I can't imagine this number applies to everything. I can't imagine Kirby with some huge budget.
Depends if the series can be leveraged merchandise wise.
BluePikmin11
Member
Seems like Nintendo is trying to be conservative this time.
It raises my curiousity for the NX a lot.
It raises my curiousity for the NX a lot.
Now that things are centralized under EPD perhaps that'll happen. I also think a big issue for Metroid is that increasingly AAA or even AA productions were continually falling out of SPD's purview and becoming the realm of EAD exclusively. I guess it depends on Sakamoto handing it off though?
I think Metroid does have the capability to be a mid-tier successful series for Nintendo in terms of sales, or at least significant enough to be an acceptable loss leader. The problem is clearly the 2 people in charge of Metroid (Tanabe for Prime, and Sakamoto for Classic) don't really know (or care) what the main audience for Metroid want for it.
For one, there shouldn't be 2 Metroid series that are managed separately, that's just stupid. There should be only 1 Metroid Producer that is in full control of the whole series, and it should be someone familiar enough with the West to know that Metroid is a series that only works there. Before E3 2015 I would've said Tanabe was your man, but after FF...well that's clearly not the case. Neither him or Sakamoto understand what it is that makes Metroid special.
As much as people like to throw him under the bus these days for Star Fox Zero, Miyamoto seems to get what makes Metroid, Metroid more than anybody currently in charge of it.
For one, there shouldn't be 2 Metroid series that are managed separately, that's just stupid. There should be only 1 Metroid Producer that is in full control of the whole series, and it should be someone familiar enough with the West to know that Metroid is a series that only works there. Before E3 2015 I would've said Tanabe was your man, but after FF...well that's clearly not the case. Neither him or Sakamoto understand what it is that makes Metroid special.
As much as people like to throw him under the bus these days for Star Fox Zero, Miyamoto seems to get what makes Metroid, Metroid more than anybody currently in charge of it.
Here. It is implied that it sold over 200,000 in the United States it first month. In Japan, its first week sales were 85,500.
humansarehorses
Member
I understand why they're reluctant to put their games on sale. It's a double-edged sword. On the one hand, if they lowered the price temporary, say within 3-12 months of launching the game, they'll be able to sell more copies.
On the other hand, those who paid full price and then see the sale, might regret their choice and decide that, for the next time, they'll wait instead because they expect a sale soon after launch. So their total revenue will be affected through that channel.
And then things get worse if there are multiple sales spaced pretty close to each other but the prices are different for the same items.
I bought Grim Fandango on sale for $6 like, a month ago but I haven't touched it yet. Recently, it was on sale for $3. That gives me a good reason to wait even on future sales of other games.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
That's quite the assumption of why people liked it. And wrong. I've never once cared that Samus is a woman, it's more about the suit than the person inside it.
The little to no marketing consisting of a fairly extensive TV ad campaign for a game that dropped off the charts in Japan?
From January 2013:
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/130131/index.html
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/130131/05.html
I cannot wait to see how Nintendo handles NX software development from a 1st and 3rd party perspective -- and how their own teams have learned to cope with HD game development over the past 5 years
(internally, since no later than say, early 2011, prior to Wii U's reveal).
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/130131/index.html
Iwata said:
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/130131/05.html
I cannot wait to see how Nintendo handles NX software development from a 1st and 3rd party perspective -- and how their own teams have learned to cope with HD game development over the past 5 years
(internally, since no later than say, early 2011, prior to Wii U's reveal).
I'm not going to link to the specific post in a different thread since I'm on mobile, but according to GAF user Celine, the game sold less than 1 million copies worldwide as of March 2016.
Honestly wouldn't surprise me if Federation Force initially wasn't a Metroid Title but later reskinned to be a Metroid game so it has some more brand reconization. Though if that's the case I think it backfired horribly as they didn't expect people being upset about it not being a main Metroid game.
When Tanabe spoke about a hypothetical Metroid Prime 4 I liked what he said actually as a Metroid Prime fan.
Also, I think although Sakamoto had a misfire with Metroid: Other M I also wonder how it would have turned out if they brought a developer to the table which was more suited to the kind of series Metroid is.
I get it, but it's up to a point where it's ridiculous, if i look up Mario Kart 7 or Luigi's Mansion 2 (3DS) or Mario Kart 8 or Super Mario 3D World (Wii U) they are all still at day one price, doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
The Metroid version fans want is also darker and more atmospheric. I don't know if people have noticed but every title Nintendo publishes is light hearted in tone, even the 18+ Bayonetta and Devil's Third.
I think that's alot of the reason why people don't like Fusion and Other M, despite their streamlined and linear structure. It's that they're too colorful and cartoony. You always hear fans talk about how the Samus clone in Fusion was the best part of the game, that's likely because it was the most uncomfortable aspect of the game.
If Nintendo released a metroidvania with high quality level design in the Kirby style, I doubt most Metroid fans would care purely based on its happy and colorful presentation. That's the impression I get whenever people quote fan made pics of what a Metroid could look like.
Nintendo makes colorful mascot games and sometimes anime artstyles. Plus the metroidvania structure is obsolete on the AAA scale, it just doesn't serve any function nowadays. If Metroid is to be revived it likely won't be a metroidvania, just like Federation Force. Franchises for Nintendo are just skins they slap on to desired gameplay structures for increased sales potential.
Federation Force was clearly always a Metroid Prime game. It was essentially a demo for a DSiware multiplayer title with Prime's mechanics. It got canned originally (I don't think they've specified why, optimists say it was because the DSi couldn't handle it, pessimists insist because it wasn't a good idea in the first place) but brought back when the c-stick was shown to Tanabe (it was supposed to be an n3DS launch title but it's missed that boat by a good margin).
Acutally, it is kinda high even with marketing. For a game Nintendo develops and publish, in the United States at least, 65% of the total cost of the game is Nintendo's margin. (It could be even higher this is assuming 20 percent for the retailer and 25 percent for distribution cost, production cost and other cost). 65% of $60 is $39. 2,000,000 * 39 = $78,000,000 in total revenue for Nintendo. I don't know what the true cost of development is for Nintendo's titles. But, I feel confidence to state that I know they aren't spending even spending $20 million for the majority of the titles developed.
But that's just an assumption, because nobody else ever really tries a pure 3D Metroidvania on a AAA budget. That doesn't mean there isn't a market for one. Take Doom 2016 for example (probably because there's tons of shit in that game that remind me of Metroid Prime). That game is as old school of a shooter as someone could realistically make without being some low-budget indie game. But it works. Everything about that campaign completely works because of a very singular and pure vision of what the developer wanted it to be. A classic FPS, complete with large levels, minimal (but still effective) story elements, and unrealistically fast movement. They took a genre that is stagnant in the AAA space and reinvented it brilliantly, and it's selling very decently from what data is available. Will it hit 5 million units? It's not impossible, but it'll definitely hit 2 million.
Metroid could be the same. It just needs the right developer and the right management with a solid vision and Metroid will sell enough to be relevant.
Lights and Waves
Member
They'd make a ton of money if they started giving us more DLC options. They would make a fortune if they gave us character costumes to purchase for Smash Bros.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
They've never made a platformer, this is a bad idea.
Papacheeks
Banned
MK8 is one of their more broad franchises, one that also saw huge ad campaign for, same I would say for splatoon, and Super smash.
They need this console to sell well so they can achieve those numbers with other titles that don't have Mario in the title.
I think splatoon did very well for how they managed to sell that IP. They need to be very proactive in new games and getting other's like the pikmin series in the hands of many Nintendo console owners to achieve this goal.
And that means gauging your audience/market to what their willing to pay. Sony only charged 40$ for Tearaway which sold like shit, but also did that with R&C and it did extremely well.
So if a game like pikmin were 40$ more people might take a gamble on it at a retail store if they've never heard or played it before.
Also I highly doubt depending on the content and how good the collections/remasters are people will re-buy games like Splatoon at 60$. Unless they are adding more support and have a cross play option so you will be able to find people to play at launch. Mario maker is another story, everyone's levels need to transfer over if that game is coming to NX.
If not you are going to have a ton of people pissed as fuck.
Theres so much untapped DLC potential for Smash like stages, modes and costumes. I wouldnt even be mad if we didnt get actual characters.
Just becasue a game dropped of the charts in Japan doesn't mean that the game will fail in the West. Secondly, I'm talking about a person who thought it was the make Xenoblade Chronicles for the Wii a freaking Gamestop exclusive on one the fasting selling systems of all time that severely lacked RPG games.
They've decided that they don't want to target the cost-conscious consumer, a strategy that I wish more platform holders would follow. You don't want to teach your customers that your product is never worth its initial asking price, especially when you want to appeal to younger gamers.
Fatal Frame is a series that they co-own with Koei Tecmo, so I imagine that's partially why they continue to make them. They do, however, need to shaken the series up to make it appeal to more people outside of Japan, which Kimishima does talk about doing in regards to sales (i.e. the 'we shouldn't be happy with sales just in Japan).
Spring Drive
Banned
They're following the Rockstar model and Rockstar has yet to make a dud
The Witcher: Six Golden Coins
To be precise: MK8 is 7.5 million, Splatoon 4.27 million.
Wii U top selling software (as of March 31, 2016)
Nintendo was using different prices for WiiU games for years. Splatoon was only 35€, Captain Toad 40€. They basically used everything between 35-60.
Because Rockstar makes only 1 type of games for 2 decades already. They never branched out of generic sandbox design. Hence wanting someone that only made WRPGs so far to make a Mario game is hillarious.
Team Filler
Member
This right here, has me a bit more hopeful going forward. Like Ubermatik said above, I'm hoping this quote is a reflection of the Nintendo execs at large understanding that developing primarily for the Japanese market will only hurt their business further.
Corronchilejano
Member
If they're looking at a global market we may get more portable Metroid games, since they're a Western seller.
I guess the only way we'll see another F-Zero is if Nintendo stops thinking it needs to be lucky and starts being bold.
I guess the only way we'll see another F-Zero is if Nintendo stops thinking it needs to be lucky and starts being bold.
eh...Metroid games sell better on consoles.
And besides, Nintendo may be doing a shared library across all of their devices.
Simbabbad
Member
At its core, Metroid is a maze game where you have to experiment, remember details in places your visited, backtrack a lot, etc. This is entirely against AAA audience and philosophy. It was already the case in the Wii/GameCube generation, and it's exponentially more true now. Meanwhile, costs have skyrocketed.
Metroid needs to evolve to survive, but the current Metroid audience is so clinically hysterical and against changes that Nintendo knows they won't have the old audience back if they release a new game, and that audience will even try to sabotage launch for other audiences: the choice is basically between targeting the old audience and it'd cost A LOT for very low sales, or trying to evolve the series, and the old audience will boo it and sabotage launch without certainty to reach a new one.
So it's doomed, nobody in charge of the company would waste money is such a conundrum. The "fanbase" even sabotaged a spin-off, Nintendo won't touch a genuine sequel with a ten foot pole.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Pretty sure the Metroid Prime games use a heavily modified UE2 so I don't think it's anything new
What are you talking about? Many of their Wii U games have hit that number.
Racing games aren't exactly the healthiest properties these days, to the point where Nintendo already sits at the top of the heap with Mario Kart, seemingly in spite of the hardware that it's on.
That's not even getting into a general avoidance of futuristic racing games to begin with. Even Sony was savage enough to give Wipeout a very public execution.
Uh, no. Nintendo sabotaged Federation Force by reviving it, since it was a DSiWare project that got shelved, and it doesn't look any better than the previous DS entry along the same vein, Hunters.
It took them until they revealed that bit of information to realize that they fucked up and people didn't want a spin-off instead of a mainline entry after six years of nothing.