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[TheProudCanadian]

To play armchair CEO for a second, here is how I would handle game development on the NX:

1. Release a series of "platform" games for the system. These are things like Smash, Mario Kart, Splatoon, Fire Emblem, maybe Hyrule Warriors, maybe a Super Mario 3D World-style platformer, maybe an Amiibo-focused game. These are the nearly guaranteed hits that would all be top priority to ship out relatively early into the console's lifecycle and would continue to be supported with new paid DLC content for the duration of the console's lifetime as a continuous source of revenue. Give them the budget they deserve, and play them safe. No experimental new control schemes or radical departures from what fans expect from these series.

2. Use the success of the platform games to drive console sales and accumulate revenue so that more experimental "passion projects" become possible. Try new things, as well as sustain classic franchises that may underperform in sales but will hopefully earn strong reviews to build the console's library and reputation (Metroid, F-Zero, etc.). Work with solid 3rd party developers for some of them to potentially save costs and free up your core teams (Platinum, FromSoft???, etc.)

3. Profit while simultaneously satisfying your legacy customers.

 

[Papacheeks]

Nintendo was using different prices for WiiU games for years. Splatoon was only 35€, Captain Toad 40€. They basically used everything between 35-60.



Because Rockstar makes only 1 type of games for 2 decades already. They never branched out of generic sandbox design. Hence wanting someone that only made WRPGs so far to make a Mario game is hillarious.

I guess maybe in UK? In america splatoon was 59.99. Captain toad yes was like 40$ over here in the US.
Every other game was 59.99. Games like Pikmin don't sell so it should be 40$, captain toad was a smaller game so it made sense. Ratchet and clank was a full fledged AAA game for 40$.
And they also need to have Nintendo made games similar to ALienation, shadow of the beast, ABZU, that are 19.99-24.99 with small retail runs.
Feel they are not trying as much as they could especially if games like Pikmin, bayonetta 2, w101.

Also dropping prices on their games will help as well if the said game doesn't sell for 49.99-59.99.
Something they have done nothing to combat the ridiculous prices on games they don't print much of, which in the end hurts them for giving a game a second chance to build a install base to your sequel has a better debut.
Also makes it so they could sell DLC. Which is why summer flash sales and the likes on psn,xblive.steam help drive those sectors of growth.

 

[EhoaVash]

Nintendo really needs to do market research and keep their developers in check from doing what ever the fuck they want

ie who ever produced #FE. What made them think there was a market for that game. Hell even in Japan it sold like less than 30k the last time I saw it on mediacreate sales thread.

 

[Schnozberry]

I believe Mario Kart 8, Captain Toad, and Super Mario 3D World use flavors of the same engine.

It'd be nice to see that tech stretched out to other games, since that engine ran like a song on the Wii U and I can only imagine would run even better on NX. It seems well suited to franchises like Kirby and Animal Crossing.

The Breath of the Wild engine would be great for any open world ambitions Nintendo has as well, even if they just reuse the physics engine. It seems like it would be a natural fit for a new Metroid or even Pikmin.

New IP will make or break Nintendo on the NX, though. Hopefully Retro is working on something that will get the party started on that front.

 

[Escalario]

Nintendo really needs to do market research and keep their developers in check from doing what ever the fuck they want

ie who ever produced #FE. What made them think there was a market for that game. Hell even in Japan it sold like less than 30k the last time I saw it on mediacreate sales thread.

The last thing Nintendo needs to do is get rid of their more weird/niche stuff. It's always nice to have stuff like #FE or Fatal Frame or Hyrule Wariors instead of yet another Mario or Zelda.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Makes sense. Focus on their franchises that are big sellers, and ones that can sell a lot of DLC.

They should make their smaller games like Captain Toad etc. digital only as well to lower production costs on titles that will sell fewer copies.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

ie who ever produced #FE. What made them think there was a market for that game. Hell even in Japan it sold like less than 30k the last time I saw it on mediacreate sales thread.

I see a few reasons why it got made:

1) A developer at Atlus really wanted to make the game.
2) Nintendo & Atlus (and Sega) have a long-running business relationship with many of Atlus' major games being Nintendo platform exclusives so it's natural that they'd consider testing a closer collaboration.
3) SMT & Fire Emblem both have gotten much more popular than they used to.
4) They actually did a SMT/FE promotion in the US earlier (buy FE+SMT4, get a big eShop rebate) which must have been a big success.

 

[Papacheeks]

Makes sense. Focus on their franchises that are big sellers, and ones that can sell a lot of DLC.

They should make their smaller games like Captain Toad etc. digital only as well to lower production costs on titles that will sell fewer copies.

Or promote them a little better, and keep them 40$. Plus have 19.99-24.99 made Nintendo titles that scratch that download itch for a awesome fun couple hours.

 

[Simbabbad]

Nintendo sabotaged Federation Force by reviving it

"Nintendo sabotaged a game by making it exist", hilarious.

Don't worry, they won't even make any Metroid spin-off from now on - that way, you'll be happy. Enjoy Samus in Smash Bros. and maybe the next Mario Kart as DLC, because for the reasons I exposed and you didn't bother commenting, they certainly won't make actual sequels. Nobody would in the same circumstances. Why make a game that costs tons of money, doesn't sell in the current market because it'd go against every trend, and has a toxic niche audience that insults and harasses developers? If I was Yoshio Sakamoto, I would never want to hear about the series ever again.

They should make their smaller games like Captain Toad etc. digital only as well to lower production costs on titles that will sell fewer copies.

Which means you want them not to do Captain Toad with the quality it has now, because you can't have that sort of quality for a smaller/download only budget.

 

[Escalario]

"Nintendo sabotaged a game by making it exist", hilarious.

Don't worry, they won't even make any Metroid spin-off from now on - that way, you'll be happy. Enjoy Samus in Smash Bros. and maybe the next Mario Kart as DLC, because for the reasons I exposed and you didn't bother commenting, they certainly won't make actual sequels. Nobody would in the same circumstances. Why make a game that costs tons of money, doesn't sell in the current market because it'd go against every trend, and has a toxic niche audience that insults and harasses developers? If I was Yoshio Sakamoto, I would never want to hear about the series ever again.

Bravo. This is the reality the jaded Metroid fanboys doesn't want to see.

 

[Shin-chan]

I see a few reasons why it got made:

1) A developer at Atlus really wanted to make the game.
2) Nintendo & Atlus (and Sega) have a long-running business relationship with many of Atlus' major games being Nintendo platform exclusives so it's naturally that they'd consider testing a closer collaboration.
3) SMT & Fire Emblem both have gotten much more popular than they used to.
4) They actually did a SMT/FE promotion in the US earlier (buy FE+SMT4, get a big eShop rebate) which must have been a big success.

All of that is true, but taking the game in the direction they did makes no sense. If they wanted to capitalise on the popularity of Fire Emblem in a collaboration with Atlus why not make an actual crossover with Fire Emblem characters/world/story but SMT gameplay? That seems like a much better read of the market than what was actually made (which is great ... but could also have been great in a more expected setting).

 

[KratosEnergyDrink]

The last thing Nintendo needs to do is get rid of their more weird/niche stuff. It's always nice to have stuff like #FE or Fatal Frame or Hyrule Wariors instead of yet another Mario or Zelda.

The WiiU Fatal Frame was one the most successful in the series. Hyrule Warriors was a big success, should be the most successful musou game in the west. So this games are not even near the niche status of #FE.

 

[Azure Phoenix]

Well, I guess us F-Zero fans have been looking for a concrete answer as to the future of the franchise for a long while - now we have our answer.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Which means you want them not to do Captain Toad with the quality it has now, because you can't have that sort of quality for a smaller/download only budget.

Well, it's business. If it can sell enough to make enough profit with a physical release great. If not, keep the budget down and go digital only.

In Captain Toad's case they probably could have worked digital only since it was just as spinoff from levels in SM3DW and thus a lot of the costly engine, asset etc. development work was done.

 

[Escalario]

The WiiU Fatal Frame was one the most successful in the series. Hyrule Warriors was a big success, should be the most successful musou game in the west. So this games are not even near the niche status of #FE.

Do you have a good source for FF5 numbers? Because I really doubt it even got to 50k worldwide with being digital-only in NA and having a very limited physical release in EU.

 

[Regiruler]

Pretty sure the Metroid Prime games use a heavily modified UE2 so I don't think it's anything new

Do you have anything to support this? I remember reading that this was debunked, but I am not certain.

 

[Vena]

I think some of you are reading this too far into "we will not make games that sell less than 2mil" and thinking they are going to homegenize their software. They've said more on the exact opposite and are doing more of the opposite (Kimishima on the young talent, breakout hits like Splatoon encouraging them to experiment more, BotW, etc).

They are a first party platform holder, they will experiment and risk, because new IP and new genres (or wider applications of genre offerings) are what will define a success or a failure.

Well, I guess us F-Zero fans have been looking for a concrete answer as to the future of the franchise for a long while - now we have our answer.

You shouldn't read it in such a way, they even state rather blankly that they expect some software to cover for other software. That means they will continue to take on loss-leader releases for the sake of portfolio (that means, F-Zeros, Metroids, Xenoblades, #FEs, etc) so long as they also have software that can cover by performing better than 2mil+ (Splatoon, Mario, Zelda, Smash, Kart, etc). On top of that they have DLC services in things like Smash or Kart or others (Amiibo) that continue to support loss-leader options.

They can also have big turn-arounds like Bayo2 which, probably, hasn't sold all that much as a title but been a huge success for them in brand power and DLC/hype for Smash. Synergy like that also is great for them even if the title in question didn't gain them a huge sales success.

 

[Cerbero]

Pretty sure the Metroid Prime games use a heavily modified UE2 so I don't think it's anything new



What are you talking about? Many of their Wii U games have hit that number.

If by many you mean 8 titles then yes.

 

[Boney]

Nintendo has always been fiscally responsible when it comes to developing games since their teams aren't as big as other competitors and they have many team members swapping around in between projects, maximizing everyone's time.

They've certainly needed to get more help to push projects in a timely manner, Monolith, Retro, Monster, Greezo have helped a lot with back up development.

I just hope that the smaller scale development games aren't gutted to make them downloadable only as they do a lot of the times.

 

[Cerbero]

They've decided that they don't want to target the cost-conscious consumer, a strategy that I wish more platform holders would follow. You don't want to teach your customers that your product is never worth its initial asking price, especially when you want to appeal to younger gamers.

young gamers rarely have 40 or 60€ to toss around on a single game, plus the other companies are doing just fine without this strategy.

 

[KingBroly]

"Nintendo sabotaged a game by making it exist", hilarious.

Again, it was a DSiWare game that got shelved. Read past the first sentence next time if you're going to reply.

 

[Instro]

Do you have anything to support this? I remember reading that this was debunked, but I am not certain.

Pretty sure the last I read on the subject is that it was fake.

 

[Vena]

I believe Mario Kart 8, Captain Toad, and Super Mario 3D World use flavors of the same engine.

Splatoon as well, that same blocky-geometry is used in the game's design. Splatoon definitely was a big success considering it was made on a lot of recycled things, with a young group of developers, and a very quick turn-around development time from vertical slice to release.

 

[Lovely Salsa]

Its not the development that costs, its the marketing.

Games rarely cost over 50 million dollars to develop

 

[Nirolak]

Its not the development that costs, its the marketing.

Games rarely cost over 50 million dollars to develop

I think for anything with Nintendo this is pretty accurate, and historically would have been quite accurate for the rest of the industry too, but near the end of last generation and into this one, the cost of top shelf AAAA games has started cracking that mark.

Between efficiency changes to how games are marketed (usually digitally and directed as opposed to the massive TV outlays of yore) along with the establishment of mega team open world titles, the games are starting to be a very significant cost component again.

 

[dragonflys545]

They are really late to the party, if they only just realize that making games for current gen requires a lot of money and time.

 

[maxcriden]

They are really late to the party, if they only just realize that making games for current gen requires a lot of money and time.

Nah, they've been saying that since the Wii U sparse lineup in the first 8-10 months and their difficulties with development at that time. They've known it since then. They're just speaking of it a bit more specifically now in terms of targets.

 

[Kill3r7]

Clearly with these targets #FE is getting a sequel! ;(

I wonder if they are going to shift to mainly larger games now or go with SE and say Ubi approach and do smaller projects (like Setsuna, Blood Dragon, etc) alongside the larger ones.

Edit: Come to think of it, Xenoblade series isn't meeting these goals either.

2 million is a large number for most games outside of the big/classic franchises. Most new IPs would be lucky to hit that number. Heck, Metroid would have a hard time hitting that number.

 

[SgtCobra]

Say what now?

*second/third party devs creating games for Nintendo consoles*

 

[jmizzal]

We will get another main Metroid game, I dont think they would even make M:FF if they didnt have any plans for another main Metroid

 

[Escalario]

2 million is a large number for most games outside of the big/classic franchises. Most new IPs would be lucky to hit that number. Heck, Metroid would have a hard time hitting that number.

Nah, Metroid can't even dream of doing 1 million, so 2 is impossible.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

"Nintendo sabotaged a game by making it exist", hilarious.

Don't worry, they won't even make any Metroid spin-off from now on - that way, you'll be happy. Enjoy Samus in Smash Bros. and maybe the next Mario Kart as DLC, because for the reasons I exposed and you didn't bother commenting, they certainly won't make actual sequels. Nobody would in the same circumstances. Why make a game that costs tons of money, doesn't sell in the current market because it'd go against every trend, and has a toxic niche audience that insults and harasses developers? If I was Yoshio Sakamoto, I would never want to hear about the series ever again.

*drops the mic

 

[Sterok]

Nah, Metroid can't even dream of doing 1 million, so 2 is impossible.

The only mainline games that haven't hit a million are Zero Mission (remake) and Other M (Other M). A good Metroid would hit a million easily. Like with Star Fox, we'll get another one when a bigwig wants to make it.

In general Nintendo is very good at keeping costs down, so even something like Xenoblade X probably didn't lose them any money. Be smart about reusing resources and don't just freely throw money at third parties to let them make whatever they want, and they'll be fine on the software side.

 

[Nostremitus]

I read that more along the lines of "If the Mario team makes an engine, ideally it should be usable by several other projects like Kirby, Yoshi, and Donkey Kong," but I could be reading that incorrectly. Like Captain Toad is clearly build on the same tech base used for Super Mario 3D World, but I'm not sure any of Nintendo's other games are.

Similarly the engine they're using to power Zelda might be an appropriate fit for a variety of other open world action adventure games by Nintendo.

I could see it also being a halfway house where the people they're making games with (where there are both Nintedo and third party staff on the title) are using a tech base Nintendo created. Some Kirby games are made externally at HAL Laboratory for example, but they might be offered to use Nintendo's technology to do that instead of having to make their own.

That wouldn't really be a change though... Mario 64 and OoT use the same engine. Did they move away from this during the GC/Wii Eras and are now going back?

 

[Celine]

2+mln copies? with their specs and basically never dropping prices of their hardware/software? as a Nintendo fan it seems really hard to me with their current mentality, only pokemon and mario titles move that kind of weight nowadays, maybe breath of the wild.

Psst

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=963700

 

[soultron]

Still don't understand why people want/expect a new Metroid of any kind. Nothing will never top (fans' nostalgia and actual design merit of) Prime or Super Metroid.

There are so many 2D games being made in the style and genre that there's no shortage of this type of game. Other developers inspired by Metroid (and/or Castlevania) are pushing the genre into new territory anyway -- something that Nintendo probably wouldn't do even if they were to make a new Metroid.

I love Metroid but I'm firmly planted in the "let it go" camp.

 

[Boney]

Uh, no. Nintendo sabotaged Federation Force by reviving it, since it was a DSiWare project that got shelved, and it doesn't look any better than the previous DS entry along the same vein, Hunters.

It took them until they revealed that bit of information to realize that they fucked up and people didn't want a spin-off instead of a mainline entry after six years of nothing.

I couldn't care less about Federation Force but this is the worst thing I've read on GAF in a while.

So congratulations I guess.

 

[paradise_circus]

Rubin, the ex ceo of thq, stated back in the day that the average AAA production costs about 20 million dollars to produce and needs to sell 2 million copies to break even.
looks like Nintendo wants to get into that level.

 

[ramparter]

So no Wave Race / F Zero...

 

[Kill3r7]

Still don't understand why people want/expect a new Metroid of any kind. Nothing will never top (fans' nostalgia and actual design merit of) Prime or Super Metroid.

There are so many 2D games being made in the style and genre that there's no shortage of this type of game. Other developers inspired by Metroid (and/or Castlevania) are pushing the genre into new territory anyway -- something that Nintendo probably wouldn't do even if they were to make a new Metroid.

I love Metroid but I'm firmly planted in the "let it go" camp.

Nothing has pushed the genre further in 3D. I hope Nintendo remasters the Prime Trilogy and releases it on NX. If nothing else it can test the waters and see if there is a market for it.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Its funny watching Nintendo going through what other AAA game companies went through almost a decade ago. They're finally being brought to modern times. Kicking and screaming but they're arriving. Finally.

 

[Cerbero]

Psst

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=963700

Like i said before, 8 titles, including Nintendoland and several bundled titles, not great really.

 

[Grinchy]

This doesn't bode well for the NX. Nintendo just can't seem to catch up to the present for some reason. This isn't the first time they've talked about having difficulties making new games despite being up to a decade behind in hardware. They're not magically going to catch up.

 

[Toxi]

At its core, Metroid is a maze game where you have to experiment, remember details in places your visited, backtrack a lot, etc. This is entirely against AAA audience and philosophy. It was already the case in the Wii/GameCube generation, and it's exponentially more true now. Meanwhile, costs have skyrocketed.

Metroid needs to evolve to survive, but the current Metroid audience is so clinically hysterical and against changes that Nintendo knows they won't have the old audience back if they release a new game, and that audience will even try to sabotage launch for other audiences: the choice is basically between targeting the old audience and it'd cost A LOT for very low sales, or trying to evolve the series, and the old audience will boo it and sabotage launch without certainty to reach a new one.

So it's doomed, nobody in charge of the company would waste money is such a conundrum. The "fanbase" even sabotaged a spin-off, Nintendo won't touch a genuine sequel with a ten foot pole.

Oh fuck off with that nonsense.

Nobody "sabotaged" Federation Force. You're such a ridiculous Nintendo fanboy that when a game looks like it's going to bomb, you don't even consider that maybe it's because it's shit nobody wants. Because that's how capitalism fucking works. We don't buy shit we don't want. It's frankly embarrassing that every time Nintendo makes a product that doesn't sell well, their sycophants try to blame the consumers for not buying it.

 

[blu]

Pretty sure the Metroid Prime games use a heavily modified UE2 so I don't think it's anything new

They don't. The engine was Retro's and Retro's alone, though it did get to transpire to other internal projects as well.

There was an interview with Retro's lead a few years ago, detailing some very indigenous use of the cube's hw. Basically Retro's engine was pushing more geometry than anything else on the cube.

 

[Xbro]

Lot of people misunderstanding. This isn't like a capcom situation where they will only make games that sell over 2 million, it's more of a matter of them making games that will sell over 2 million so they can recoup the costs of the games that don't quite break even.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

2 million is a large number for most games outside of the big/classic franchises. Most new IPs would be lucky to hit that number. Heck, Metroid would have a hard time hitting that number.

Metroid wouldn't have a hard time hitting two million.

Metroid would almost certainly never hit two million.

 

[Celine]

Like i said before, 8 titles, including Nintendoland and several bundled titles, not great really.

If you think Nintendo want NX to sell just 14 million units then you are very wrong.
Taking WiiU as the norm is like taking Wii as the norm.
They are just at the opposite end of the spectrum and I'm not sure NX is going toward one of them (especially because we don't know anything about NX).

Lot of people misunderstanding. This isn't like a capcom situation where they will only make games that sell over 2 million, it's more of a matter of them making games that will sell over 2 million so they can recoup the costs of the games that don't quite break even.

Indeed.

 

[_machine]

Its not the development that costs, its the marketing.

Games rarely cost over 50 million dollars to develop

Definitely not true, the bulk of Ubi/EA/Acti/2K/S-E flagship series titles cost more than 50 million dollars to develop. Hell, even mobile games these days can quite easily reach costs higher than 10 million + marketing. Marketing tends to be a double of it, but make no mistake that after the past years of consolidation, the development budget has probably even gained back some of its share, especially thanks to the platform generation jump.

Also, I get the feeling that people think that the target is close to break-even point, which is not even remotely true in such a risky business and where you are bound to have multiple products making loss. That 2 million target should include a healthy ROI, which makes 2 million more than reasonable.

 

[Toxi]

Metroid wouldn't have a hard time hitting two million.

Metroid would almost certainly never hit two million.

It cleared well past two million on the Gamecube.

Granted, that was fucking Metroid Prime. Good luck making another game like that.