2+mln copies? with their specs and basically never dropping prices of their hardware/software? as a Nintendo fan it seems really hard to me with their current mentality
I was just about to say this. Knew this would come up if I read far enough into the thread.Two million is reasonable compared to the AAA publishing scene, where many games have to sell much more to break even and prevent a developer from being taken to EA's ditch and shot in the head.
Clearly with these targets #FE is getting a sequel! ;(
I wonder if they are going to shift to mainly larger games now or go with SE and say Ubi approach and do smaller projects (like Setsuna, Blood Dragon, etc) alongside the larger ones.
Edit: Come to think of it, Xenoblade series isn't meeting these goals either.
Let CDProjekt RED make a Mario game, problem solved
I'm not sure that's really the case given their continued investment in things like Xenoblade, Monster Hunter, Fatal Frame, etc. I think Metroid's main problem is simply the core developers moved on to other more lucrative things like DKCR or Tomodachi.
Do we know where Xenoblade is now in the West in terms of sales?The problem with Xenoblade, at least in the United States, you have Reggie sabotaging it with little to no marketing for the series.
both xenoblade games are actually mid budget games that dont need to sell 2 million, altho they actually get quite close to 1 million.
Two million is reasonable compared to the AAA publishing scene, where many games have to sell much more to break even and prevent a developer from being taken to EA's ditch and shot in the head.
Given how Nintendo operates, I wonder how much wiggle room there is within that mandate. It sort of feels like Nintendo would approach software sales figures in the same way they do amiibo prices - count on the strong sales of certain pieces to compensate for less profit on others. So that the less directly profitable pieces can still be made in order to serve the interests of as many customers as possible. I would not want to see Nintendo abandon games that require decent budget, like Pikmin, just because "only" 1.2 million people enjoy the game.
...No? Even on WiiU there are games that sold much more than that. MK8 is over 5 millions, Splatoon is over 3 millions.
I'm not sure that's really the case given their continued investment in things like Xenoblade, Monster Hunter, Fatal Frame, etc. I think Metroid's main problem is simply the core developers moved on to other more lucrative things like DKCR or Tomodachi.
That's not true at all. No one really buys Fatal Frame but those keep getting made somehow.Japan doesn't buy Metroid. The ones you listed do. When a Metroid game sells well, it's getting about 90-95% of its' sales in the west. They don't want to make Metroid games when they consistently do less than 100k in Japan (and even that's being generous).
I'm not sure that's really the case given their continued investment in things like Xenoblade, Monster Hunter, Fatal Frame, etc. I think Metroid's main problem is simply the core developers moved on to other more lucrative things like DKCR or Tomodachi.
I think the assumption here is that the budget goes up quite a bit with the generation transition.
Metroid and F-Zero are already basically dead, but in the abstract of the concept, that's not impossible. At some point profitability has to be considered.
Now that things are centralized under EPD perhaps that'll happen. I also think a big issue for Metroid is that increasingly AAA or even AA productions were continually falling out of SPD's purview and becoming the realm of EAD exclusively. I guess it depends on Sakamoto handing it off though?I wish they would at least make a 2D sequel. Give it to a small team of new developers like Splatoon. With all the recent popularity of Metroidvania indie titles, I got to imagine it would make a nice profit.
Do we know where Xenoblade is now in the West in terms of sales?
I know the first month figures were great (although I forget how much it sold).
2+mln copies? with their specs and basically never dropping prices of their hardware/software? as a Nintendo fan it seems really hard to me with their current mentality
I've said this in other threads, but I'll say it again here: I don't think there's a lot about Metroid as an IP that's particularly appealing. Once you get past the whole "first big action series with a female lead" thing that mattered more or less just in the era that the first game released in, I don't think there's really ever been much there to sell to a mass audience that aren't going to be swayed easily by critical acclaim. It's always lacked a hook, and despite efforts to make it easier to get into, like the streamlining in Prime 3 and having a bigger story focus in Other M, I still don't think they've found it.
The problem with Xenoblade, at least in the United States, you have Reggie sabotaging it with little to no marketing for the series.
Iwata said:As you might already know from some newspaper reports, we will reorganize our development divisions next month for the first time in nine years. Two divisions which have independently developed handheld devices and home consoles will be united to form the Integrated Research & Development Division, which will be headed by Genyo Takeda, Senior Managing Director.
Last year we also started a project to integrate the architecture for our future platforms. What we mean by integrating platforms is not integrating handhelds devices and home consoles to make only one machine. What we are aiming at is to integrate the architecture to form a common basis for software development so that we can make software assets more transferrable, and operating systems and their build-in applications more portable, regardless of form factor or performance of each platform. They will also work to avoid software lineup shortages or software development delays which tend to happen just after the launch of new hardware.
Some time ago it was technologically impossible to have the same architecture for handheld devices and home consoles and what we did was therefore reasonable. Although it has not been long since we began to integrate the architecture and this will have no short-term result, we believe that it will provide a great benefit to our platform business in the long run.
Do we know where Xenoblade is now in the West in terms of sales?
I know the first month figures were great (although I forget how much it sold).
I think Metroid does have the capability to be a mid-tier successful series for Nintendo in terms of sales, or at least significant enough to be an acceptable loss leader. The problem is clearly the 2 people in charge of Metroid (Tanabe for Prime, and Sakamoto for Classic) don't really know (or care) what the main audience for Metroid want for it.
For one, there shouldn't be 2 Metroid series that are managed separately, that's just stupid. There should be only 1 Metroid Producer that is in full control of the whole series, and it should be someone familiar enough with the West to know that Metroid is a series that only works there. Before E3 2015 I would've said Tanabe was your man, but after FF...well that's clearly not the case. Neither him or Sakamoto understand what it is that makes Metroid special.
As much as people like to throw him under the bus these days for Star Fox Zero, Miyamoto seems to get what makes Metroid, Metroid more than anybody currently in charge of it.
I understand why they're reluctant to put their games on sale. It's a double-edged sword. On the one hand, if they lowered the price temporary, say within 3-12 months of launching the game, they'll be able to sell more copies.
On the other hand, those who paid full price and then see the sale, might regret their choice and decide that, for the next time, they'll wait instead because they expect a sale soon after launch. So their total revenue will be affected through that channel.
And then things get worse if there are multiple sales spaced pretty close to each other but the prices are different for the same items.
I bought Grim Fandango on sale for $6 like, a month ago but I haven't touched it yet. Recently, it was on sale for $3. That gives me a good reason to wait even on future sales of other games.
I've said this in other threads, but I'll say it again here: I don't think there's a lot about Metroid as an IP that's particularly appealing. Once you get past the whole "first big action series with a female lead" thing that mattered more or less just in the era that the first game released in, I don't think there's really ever been much there to sell to a mass audience that aren't going to be swayed easily by critical acclaim. It's always lacked a hook, and despite efforts to make it easier to get into, like the streamlining in Prime 3 and having a bigger story focus in Other M, I still don't think they've found it.
Zelda attracts the same kind of audience that Metroid could, and that's rarely ever had issues with selling very well.
Honestly wouldn't surprise me if Federation Force initially wasn't a Metroid Title but later reskinned to be a Metroid game so it has some more brand reconization. Though if that's the case I think it backfired horribly as they didn't expect people being upset about it not being a main Metroid game.
When Tanabe spoke about a hypothetical Metroid Prime 4 I liked what he said actually as a Metroid Prime fan.
Also, I think although Sakamoto had a misfire with Metroid: Other M I also wonder how it would have turned out if they brought a developer to the table which was more suited to the kind of series Metroid is.
2 million is low unless their marketing budget is tiny per game. Like less than 20m per game.
The Metroid version fans want is also darker and more atmospheric. I don't know if people have noticed but every title Nintendo publishes is light hearted in tone, even the 18+ Bayonetta and Devil's Third.
I think that's alot of the reason why people don't like Fusion and Other M, despite their streamlined and linear structure. It's that they're too colorful and cartoony. You always hear fans talk about how the Samus clone in Fusion was the best part of the game, that's likely because it was the most uncomfortable aspect of the game.
If Nintendo released a metroidvania with high quality level design in the Kirby style, I doubt most Metroid fans would care purely based on its happy and colorful presentation. That's the impression I get whenever people quote fan made pics of what a Metroid could look like.
Nintendo makes colorful mascot games and sometimes anime artstyles. Plus the metroidvania structure is obsolete on the AAA scale, it just doesn't serve any function nowadays. If Metroid is to be revived it likely won't be a metroidvania, just like Federation Force. Franchises for Nintendo are just skins they slap on to desired gameplay structures for increased sales potential.
They've never made a platformer, this is a bad idea.Let CDProjekt RED make a Mario game, problem solved
...No? Even on WiiU there are games that sold much more than that. MK8 is over 5 millions, Splatoon is over 3 millions.
They'd make a ton of money if they started giving us more DLC options. They would make a fortune if they gave us character costumes to purchase for Smash Bros.
The little to no marketing consisting of a fairly extensive TV ad campaign for a game that dropped off the charts in Japan?
I get it, but it's up to a point where it's ridiculous, if i look up Mario Kart 7 or Luigi's Mansion 2 (3DS) or Mario Kart 8 or Super Mario 3D World (Wii U) they are all still at day one price, doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
That's not true at all. No one really buys Fatal Frame but those keep getting made somehow.
LMAO. Is "Let CDPR make..." the new "Let Platinum make..."? Sooner or later they will make a dud that will kill all the goodwill they had on GAF just like what happened to Platinum recently.
They've never made a platformer, this is a bad idea.
...No? Even on WiiU there are games that sold much more than that. MK8 is over 5 millions, Splatoon is over 3 millions.
MK8 is one of their more broad franchises, one that also saw huge ad campaign for, same I would say for splatoon, and Super smash.
They need this console to sell well so they can achieve those numbers with other titles that don't have Mario in the title.
I think splatoon did very well for how they managed to sell that IP. They need to be very proactive in new games and getting other's like the pikmin series in the hands of many Nintendo console owners to achieve this goal.
And that means gauging your audience/market to what their willing to pay. Sony only charged 40$ for Tearaway which sold like shit, but also did that with R&C and it did extremely well.
So if a game like pikmin were 40$ more people might take a gamble on it at a retail store if they've never heard or played it before.
Also I highly doubt depending on the content and how good the collections/remasters are people will re-buy games like Splatoon at 60$. Unless they are adding more support and have a cross play option so you will be able to find people to play at launch. Mario maker is another story, everyone's levels need to transfer over if that game is coming to NX.
If not you are going to have a ton of people pissed as fuck.
They're following the Rockstar model and Rockstar has yet to make a dud
Miyamoto:
In striking that balance, while it's important that we do not overextend by putting an excessive amount of content in our games, the only solution is how to make software that sells well. There will be big hits somewhere in our business, and they support the games that fail and allow us to take on other challenges. So our basic premise is to create software that will sell in the range of at least two million units. We simply couldn't recoup our costs if we only released games in Japan that had sales of around 300,000 units, so the global market is our standard.
If they're looking at a global market we may get more portable Metroid games, since they're a Western seller.
I guess the only way we'll see another F-Zero is if Nintendo stops thinking it needs to be lucky and starts being bold.
At its core, Metroid is a maze game where you have to experiment, remember details in places your visited, backtrack a lot, etc. This is entirely against AAA audience and philosophy. It was already the case in the Wii/GameCube generation, and it's exponentially more true now. Meanwhile, costs have skyrocketed.But that's just an assumption, because nobody else ever really tries a pure 3D Metroidvania on a AAA budget.
I actually find Takahashi's quote more important because it sounds like Nintendo is open to licensing an engine and maybe even sharing internal technology with other developers.
That'd be quite a big change.
2+mln copies? with their specs and basically never dropping prices of their hardware/software? as a Nintendo fan it seems really hard to me with their current mentality, only pokemon and mario titles move that kind of weight nowadays, maybe breath of the wild.
If they're looking at a global market we may get more portable Metroid games, since they're a Western seller.
I guess the only way we'll see another F-Zero is if Nintendo stops thinking it needs to be lucky and starts being bold.
At its core, Metroid is a maze game where you have to experiment, remember details in places your visited, backtrack a lot, etc. This is entirely against AAA audience and philosophy. It was already the case in the Wii/GameCube generation, and it's exponentially more true now. Meanwhile, costs have skyrocketed.
Metroid needs to evolve to survive, but the current Metroid audience is so clinically hysterical and against changes that Nintendo knows they won't have the old audience back if they release a new game, and that audience will even try to sabotage launch for other audiences: the choice is basically between targeting the old audience and it'd cost A LOT for very low sales, or trying to evolve the series, and the old audience will boo it and sabotage launch without certainty to reach a new one.
So it's doomed, nobody in charge of the company would waste money is such a conundrum. The "fanbase" even sabotaged a spin-off, Nintendo won't touch a genuine sequel with a ten foot pole.