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[qcf x2]

Blaming Trump for Un is like blaming Trump for a bird shitting on your car. Of all the things to blame him for, I don't think North Korea is one of them, it's not like the leader of the free world should sit idly while a rogue, genocidal dictatorship amasses nuclear weaponry in plain sight. They tried sanctions (for the 100th time). Didn't work. I am as afraid of war as anybody and am praying for no WW3 in my lifetime, but the NK situation turning into a horrific military conflict has probably had a greater than 50% chance of occurring since like the early 90s, and the further it drags out the more destructive weaponry they are going to amass and the more aggressive their behavior will be.

Of course, there is no right solution. But if you allow one despot to do what Un is doing, you are paving the way for others. "All it takes is a functional nuke."

 

[bitbydeath]

Most of the world does not follow China... Maybe reliant on China for consumer goods, but they certainly don't follow and respect China's government. If there is a war, even with Trump, the vast majority of UN states will side with the US.

It'd certainly cause a divide and not something you'd want to gamble on.

 

[mrhyderager]

Isn't this a straight-up declaration of war?

North Korea already considers itself to be at war with the United States. It's just not recognized. They've committed a number of war acts by testing nukes in international (and even some not-so-international) waters.

 

[qcf x2]

Isn't this a straight-up declaration of war?

No, it's war games until they actually do something. The US simulates war with Russia, China, etc regularly. Of course, they don't usually scream about it, but preparing doesn't constitute acting.

 

[charpunk]

A friend of mine is stationed in Guam

 

[Dreams-Visions]

A friend of mine is stationed in Guam

And they'll be just fine.

 

[Beartruck]

I knew when the Cubs won the Karma would come eventually. I just didn't expect it to come a week later with a Trump Presidency.

 

[TetraGenesis]

How many times have they said the exact same thing? It's empty rhetoric. Stop losing your shit.

We're not losing our shit due to them, we're losing our shit due to Trump.

He's not a measured and composed leader. He's not gonna take empty threats as empty threats, he's looking for an opportunity to unleash the full might of the US military. Both to feel powerful and to, ugh, improve his approval ratings.

 

[superdeluxe]

North Korea should more be worried the day everyone calls their bluff. China agreed to sanctions. This means they are also fed up.

If SK gave the go ahead, you could probably have B2 stealth fly from Whitebomb and carpet bomb Pyongyang within hours. The danger is, and has always been their artillery positioned everywhere aiming at Seoul. Unless you did a massive all out first strike, Seoul will suffer catastrophic damage. Not to mention woule create a ridiculous humanitarian disaster and probably crash the world economy.

North Koreans are starving. These sanctions take even more away. Eventually they will revolt or dictators just like every dictator in history will use all options left ie. Threaten a strike or follow through with one.

Not to mention likely 50-75k us citizens living in seoul AND about 15-20k US soldiers on the DMZ

 

[Alastor3]

im thinking about all the poor people in NK that have probably absolutely no idea what is going on....

 

[Woo-Fu]

Going to be some interesting news stories when every NK sub at sea mysteriously ends up sunk.

 

[riotous]

The actual statement they made doesn't seem much different from what they continually have said for decades.

"now carefully examining the operational plan for making an enveloping fire at the areas around Guam with medium-to-long-range strategic ballistic rocket Hwasong-12," ...."full examination and completion," and will be put into practice "in a multi-concurrent and consecutive way" at Kim Jong-un's order, added the command.

They are going to carefully examine a plan they already have... and.. yeah, of course Kim Jon-Un can order any of their endless array of plans they most likly have at any time.

I highly doubt they'll actually fire any missiles at Guam.

It's assumed they are always developing various military plans, like every military ever.

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

I would rather Un and Trump handle this on RAW. Vince would book Taka Michinoku as Kim's manager.

 

[.....]

.

 

[linkboy]

Why would NK go for Japan if the US did something? I'm not up to speed about the region relations in those areas.

Because there's US troops in both Japan and South Korea, and that's where an air based attack would originate from.

Osan has a fighter jets squadron and A-10's
Misawa has two fighter jets squadrons
Andersen AFB is in Guam, and has a bomb wing

 

[SaviourMK2]

Is Kim eager to die? There has to be some speck of sensibility that says "holy shit, I have no allies who would protect me if we do this".
Why doesn't he just do what his grandfather has done and lie to his people.
"Oh yeah, totally nuked America". Like seriously. I don't understand how they can possibly think this will end in victory.

 

[superdeluxe]

How North Korea would Retaliate:

https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/how-north-korea-would-retaliate

Regardless of these considerations and constraints on the North Korean side, if Pyongyang embraces the worst-case scenario for Seoul — the indiscriminate targeting of the capital and its suburbs — the damage would still be significant.

 

[superdeluxe]

Because there's US troops in both Japan and South Korea, and that's where an air based attack would originate from.

Osan has a fighter jets squadron and A-10's
Misawa has two fighter jets squadrons
Andersen AFB is in Guam, and has a bomb wing

I want to say the 3rd marine expeditionary force is in Japan and would be used to respond to Korea after an attack

 

[-griffy-]

I thought I would worry less about my buddy in the navy when he moves from Seoul to Guam in January.

 

[Con_Smith]

Clearly Obama

It does seem easier to blame the black guy. Probably used emails like a cuck.

 

[Polari]

NK are sailing close to the wind here. I can understand the rationale for continuing their nuclear program, but the kind of rhetoric they're employing might end up being a catastrophic miscalculation.

 

[superdeluxe]

And they'll be just fine.

I'd agree with you if we had rational actor as CiC

 

[Orin GA]

Is'nt this where China should be telling NK to chill?

 

[JetBlackPanda]

This is pretty scary. I don't see why Kim doesn't just live like a king and let his people suffer. What do these threats get him?

Unless he really wants to be in the history books and that scares me.

 

[superdeluxe]

Is'nt this where China should be telling NK to chill?

Yes, honestly would anyone be mad if China just went ahead and took over NK?

 

[Woorloog]

This is pretty scary. I don't see why Kim doesn't just live like a king and let his people suffer. What do these threats get him?

Unless he really wants to be in the history books and that scares me.

"Give us food and oil".

And also, gotta look strong when an orange moron is blustering. You know, it is basically a cockfight.

Yes, honestly would anyone be mad if China just went ahead and took over NK?

Not really. But China isn't really willing to deal with the economic consequences. War is costly, and rebuilding equally so. Anything affecting Chinese economy can cause internal troubles.

 

[Kwhit10]

Why do I feel like some of NKs moves have the smell of Putin on them.

 

[Woorloog]

Why do I feel like some of NKs moves have the smell of Putin on them.

Unlikely. Russia and NK aren't really friendly. Russia takes part in sanctions against NK, and pretty sure SK is bigger trading partner for Russian than NK. Russia did write off bunch of debts NK had but i reckon that was pure pragmatism, it isn't like they would ever see that money anyway.

 

[RoKKeR]

I can't believe we haven't had a single statement from the administration, or anybody connected to it, trying to calm the waters. It has set off a frenzy.

Those selfish fucks are probably just happy nobody is talking about Russia at the moment.

 

[brian577]

Not really. But China isn't really willing to deal with the economic consequences. War is costly, and rebuilding equally so. Anything affecting Chinese economy can cause internal troubles.

Yet they are willing to let this train wreck continue. Do they seriously think the status quo can be maintained indefinitely?

NK sure as hell doesn't believe so.

At best China will get US nukes stationed on the peninsula and I don't think they want that.

 

[Velcro Fly]

I knew when the Cubs won the Karma would come eventually. I just didn't expect it to come a week later with a Trump Presidency.

I told myself when they were down 3-1 that I'd pay the blood price of a Trump presidency for the Cubs to come back.

I did this to us.

 

[gutter_trash]

No, it's war games until they actually do something. The US simulates war with Russia, China, etc regularly. Of course, they don't usually scream about it, but preparing doesn't constitute acting.

like 4D Chess or something, am right?

you don't play "games" with nuclear warheads, son.

remember JFK's difficult decision making during the Cuban Missile Crisis. In an alternate reality, that would have been a nuclear holocaust.

 

[Woorloog]

Yet they are willing to let this train wreck continue. Do they seriously think the status quo can be maintained indefinitely?

NK sure as hell doesn't believe so.

At best China will get US nukes stationed on the peninsula and I don't think they want that.

Who is willing to give the order to attack NK?
You can gather intelligence. You can prepare in any way you can. You can think of plans for that, tweak them, polish them until they're perfect. Yet the moment the order is given, events are out of your control.
At that point, predicting reactions and reacting to those becomes difficult. Slightest misstep will cost you. Hell, even things going perfectly will cost you.

Not doing anything gives you a semblance of control. Any talk is better than action. And as long as there's talk, there's a chance of more talk.

If something happens, it is your hand that is forced. Not taking action before will be regretted for years to come, in public, but in reality everyone will think "glad i wasn't one to give the order".

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Not really. But China isn't really willing to deal with the economic consequences. War is costly, and rebuilding equally so. Anything affecting Chinese economy can cause internal troubles.

Understating a bit here. N. Korea has ~25 million starving, uneducated people and country still lacking in the most basic of infrastructure. I don't even know what kind of economy could be enacted to sustain them (even basic agriculture know how seems limited with their perpetual famine) besides a generation of an aid state where money is pouring in without anything going out. Rebuilding North Korea is a massive, massive money hole that S. Korea couldn't afford and China does not want to deal with.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Is'nt this where China should be telling NK to chill?

Tell Trump to not mention bringing down hellfire in the middle of lunch and you'll have a better chance of China working something out

 

[Woorloog]

Understating a bit here. N. Korea has ~25 million starving, uneducated people and country still lacking in the most basic of infrastructure. I don't even know what kind of economy could be enacted to sustain them (even basic agriculture know how seems limited with their perpetual famine) besides a generation of an aid state where money is pouring in without anything going out. Rebuilding North Korea is a massive, massive money hole that S. Korea couldn't afford and China does not want to deal with.

I was thinking "Rebuilding to the current level". Still expensive. Actually modernizing things? Not a chance.

 

[BajiBoxer]

I have zero faith in Trump's ability to solve anything through diplomacy, or his ability to manage a war. I mean what's going to happen? Best case scenario seems to be both these clowns threatening our countries in new ways every week.

 

[Ty4on]

This is pretty scary. I don't see why Kim doesn't just live like a king and let his people suffer. What do these threats get him?

Unless he really wants to be in the history books and that scares me.

He's trying to hold onto power

 

[Shadow Broker]

We're not losing our shit due to them, we're losing our shit due to Trump.

He's not a measured and composed leader. He's not gonna take empty threats as empty threats, he's looking for an opportunity to unleash the full might of the US military. Both to feel powerful and to, ugh, improve his approval ratings.

I couldn't agree more. NK is a Chihuahua, they have barked loud in the past and will continue to bark loudly moving foward. Trump has little man syndrome and has been looking to show the world what a big man he is. Trump wants to do something so that he can say he's done it and brag about it while playing golf with his billionaire friends.

If war or total massacre of NK doesn't happen within the next year I believe it's something that will never happen.

 

[Bowler]

Everyone posting as if Trump holds the key to the military. Lmao. It doesn't work that way. It never has. Jesus people stop drinking the koolaid.

This is in the hands of Mathis and his 100 plus advisors in the Pentagon. If they say it's time to strike. Then it will be. Plain and simple, same as it ever was.

 

[callhitman]

Everyone posting as if Trump holds the key to the military. Lmao. It doesn't work that way. It never has. Jesus people stop drinking the koolaid.

This is in the hands of Mathis and his 100 plus advisors in the Pentagon. If they say it's time to strike. Then it will be. Plain and simple, same as it ever was.

I agree. To many people may not say it but they won't follow orders from him on that scale. Trump doesn't have there respect like any other president would have. Sad but thank god.

 

[Shadow Broker]

Everyone posting as if Trump holds the key to the military. Lmao. It doesn't work that way. It never has. Jesus people stop drinking the koolaid.

This is in the hands of Mathis and his 100 plus advisors in the Pentagon. If they say it's time to strike. Then it will be. Plain and simple, same as it ever was.

Yes and no.

I had this long post typed out pointing out the actual mindset of the military for my personal experience serving in it but it's one of those situations where I'm speaking honestly but have no receipts.

Let me just repeat a quote I remember a general saying, "We follow the President of the United States without question. He was put in power by the people of the United States so when he tells us to go to war we go to war." It's not word for word and there was more but that was the jist of it. The point I'm trying to make is the US military isn't political. That's the job of the politicians. If Trump orders them to waste NK they will. If Trump is arrested and thrown in jail for giving that order it doesn't affect the military except they're now taking orders from Pence.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Everyone posting as if Trump holds the key to the military. Lmao. It doesn't work that way. It never has. Jesus people stop drinking the koolaid.

This is in the hands of Mathis and his 100 plus advisors in the Pentagon. If they say it's time to strike. Then it will be. Plain and simple, same as it ever was.

If you're going to "well, actually" the thread, be right.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

Unlikely. Russia and NK aren't really friendly. Russia takes part in sanctions against NK, and pretty sure SK is bigger trading partner for Russian than NK. Russia did write off bunch of debts NK had but i reckon that was pure pragmatism, it isn't like they would ever see that money anyway.

Isn't Russia actively employing North Koreans in the forestry industry in Siberia? I think there's a documentary about this somewhere...

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Yes, honestly would anyone be mad if China just went ahead and took over NK?

I'm pretty sure you people would get a bit anal when you find out China has no intention of feeding the North Korean civilians.

 

[HoJu]

Everyone posting as if Trump holds the key to the military. Lmao. It doesn't work that way. It never has. Jesus people stop drinking the koolaid.

This is in the hands of Mathis and his 100 plus advisors in the Pentagon. If they say it's time to strike. Then it will be. Plain and simple, same as it ever was.

No, but Trump saying the shit he's been saying could lead North Korea to strike if they feel like US is going to strike. The focus should be on deeacelating the situation and making the message clear.

 

[Joey Jo-Jo Jr]

Trump has little man syndrome and has been looking to show the world what a big man he is.

If "little man syndrome" is now a term that can be applied to the 6ft 2 Trump, just who exactly is not a little man? Andre the Giant perhaps?

 

[Crayon]

Hey trump if you're reading just say you don't consider this a threat. No big.

 

[blackflag]

Yes and no.

I had this long post typed out pointing out the actual mindset of the military for my personal experience serving in it but it's one of those situations where I'm speaking honestly but have no receipts.

Let me just repeat a quote I remember a general saying, "We follow the President of the United States without question. He was put in power by the people of the United States so when he tells us to go to war we go to war." It's not word for word and there was more but that was the jist of it. The point I'm trying to make is the US military isn't political. That's the job of the politicians. If Trump orders them to waste NK they will. If Trump is arrested and thrown in jail for giving that order it doesn't affect the military except they're now taking orders from Pence.

This is how it is and anyone saying otherwise has no experience.

Yes, any smart president would listen to his generals on most things that doesn't mean Trump will and if he gave the order they'd still go.

 

[TaterTots]

I have zero faith in Trump's ability to solve anything through diplomacy, or his ability to manage a war. I mean what's going to happen? Best case scenario seems to be both these clowns threatening our countries in new ways every week.

To be fair, what could we solve through diplomacy with NK? We've tried a ton of sanctions and they do not care at all and keep building nuclear weapons while threatening various countries. At what point does the line stop moving? Before, it was empty threats, now it should be taken seriously.

As far as managing a war...who is our secretary of defense? Madog Mattis? Like others, I do not want a war, but eventually something will have to happen. Can't keep turning a blind eye to a government who is constantly threatening with such weaponry.