FinaruDensetsu
Member
Little does NK know Trump couldn't care less about a bunch of asian or Pacific islander people.
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North Korea Threatens Missile Strike on Guam (a United States Territory)
- Thread starter Armadilo
- Start date
Fox Mulder
Member
NK striking Guam will take care of the debate really.
You answered your own question. Deterrence.
The threats are at the worst now because the regime is at it's most perilous since if any attack on NK happens it'll be right at or before they get the capability.
They're rational. The crazy is to keep the US out long enough to make an invasion an even worse option that it already is.
tearsintherain
Member
NK threatens to launch nukes a LOT:
threatens preemptive nuclear strike in response to joint US-South Korea military exercises, 2016
http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/06/asia/north-korea-preemptive-nuclear-strike-threat/index.html
Warns US its ready to use nukes any moment, 2015
http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/15/asia/north-korea-nuclear-program/index.html
North Korea threatens to attack the white house if Obama retaliates over the Sony hacks, 2014
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/21/north-korea-threatens-us_n_6362608.html
I'm sure you can find a couple per year going back a while. So yeah, its kind of silly to act like a headless chicken every time North Korea threatens anyone.
Now if you see China suddenly moving a lot of troops around, then its time to get worried.
threatens preemptive nuclear strike in response to joint US-South Korea military exercises, 2016
http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/06/asia/north-korea-preemptive-nuclear-strike-threat/index.html
Warns US its ready to use nukes any moment, 2015
http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/15/asia/north-korea-nuclear-program/index.html
North Korea threatens to attack the white house if Obama retaliates over the Sony hacks, 2014
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/21/north-korea-threatens-us_n_6362608.html
I'm sure you can find a couple per year going back a while. So yeah, its kind of silly to act like a headless chicken every time North Korea threatens anyone.
Now if you see China suddenly moving a lot of troops around, then its time to get worried.
But this time its for real, dude
Trump sucks, but China has stood by and done very little to work anything out regarding NK for decades. I don't think Trump's rhetoric really excuses China's handling of NK over the last 60+ years.
F0rneus
Tears in the rain
Who was president during these times? No one is nervous about NK. We are nervous about Donald "Shitpiece" Trump.
Vermillion
Banned
Odds of China attacking us seem pretty low.
South Korea would probably be screwed though.
South Korea would probably be screwed though.
KojiKnight
Member
Bingo. We're probably safe right now while NK just talks about attacking the US... but the moment Un realizes he can goad DT with a comment on his hand size...
This is intellectually dishonest since North Korea did not have the capability to do so (and may still not have the ability for all we and the intelligence community knows). They couldn't "launch" any strike except on South Korea in the form of short-medium missiles and artillery. Without any capability, of course it is just them yelling and throwing shit, as all the previous administrations pushed the issue to the next administration as usual.
I would of backed a Syrian intervention and I sure as hell back keeping another country from obtaining nuclear ability. This would be the one time I may actually back Trump on any action including full military action.
China's troops have been in place for months.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/07/25/asia/china-north-korea-border/index.html
Nothing will likely happen, but having two petty vindictive and stupid men getting into a pissing contest isnt very reassuring.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/07/25/asia/china-north-korea-border/index.html
Nothing will likely happen, but having two petty vindictive and stupid men getting into a pissing contest isnt very reassuring.
It's sad that I have far more confidence in the sanity of the leader of a brutal authoritarian regime than I do the President of the United States.
abstract alien
Member
I remember everyone around here talking about how it was never going to happen when I said "it's always funny until it happens" in regards to some random threat by NK a few years so. Guess it's still funny though.
Just want to make sure you're clear on this point. You're saying NK leader who runs literal slave camps with children in them. You trust him more than Trump...
neogaf.gif
Alcotholic
Banned
I think its safe to suggest that Trump brought on a war.
These dick wagging contests between Trump and Korea is not a good sign.
These dick wagging contests between Trump and Korea is not a good sign.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
to not use nukes preemptively? yes, unless trump signals an invasion
They trust Kim to do what's in his own best interest more than Trump not being reckless. They're not speaking to morality.
Kim is predictable. All his country does is sabre-rattle, that's all they will ever do. He doesn't want to die, he wants to carry on eating fancy imported cheese and watching Hollywood films.
They are pushing things to new extremes because they know that the international community is much more scared of Donald Trump than North Korea. He appears deranged enough to actually push the button, whereas we all know NK would never launch a military first strike.
You're probably right, but after the 2016 election it's hard to take comfort in sweeping declarations around here.
Kim is a fucking loon, but he's got everything to lose. There's no way he can fully defeat the US military. He knows it, and we know it. After a possible first strike by North Korea, even if not successful, the US military will wipe his regime off the map.
Trump, on the other hand, knows damn well he's got the military advantage and really doesn't have anything to lose by using it. He's the looser canon, because if he's having a bad day, he can give the order to attack.
Yup big difference, NK used to be made fun of because they couldn't make weapons and nobody took them serious but shit has changed
We either have no war and let DPRK perpetuate its existence. A country oppressing it's people, and allowing them to starve for another 20 years. Or we deal with it with precision with the assistance of our allies and then spend the next 20 years reforming it and reunifying it into ROK.
We just don't know what DPRK will do. They've spent their entire existence threatening and testing different kinds of bombs.
We just don't know what DPRK will do. They've spent their entire existence threatening and testing different kinds of bombs.
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
Sorry Gaf, if Kim actually follows through with this threat, all bets are off. Trump and congress will be in the right to retaliate with force.
True, but the fucking loon I'm worried about isn't the one in Korea.
Trump is the wild card. Everyone can see plain as day what will happen to North Korea if they attack first.
Trump, on the other hand, knows damn well there's no consequence for him if he decides to launch an attack.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
You joke to both of those.
Imperfected
Member
An assault on North Korea is probably the most thoroughly "solved" problem in modern military strategy and logistics since it's been continuously on the table and near-static in terms of the terrain, primary weapons, and troop compositions for going on forty years, yes.
That doesn't mean it would go over cleanly or to-plan--it's even possible it could go easier than anticipated, as happened in the initial force-on-force invasion of Iraq--but it does mean that it's likely to be a flash war, one way or the other. The situation's long been more of a Mexican stand-off than a proper staredown.
Don't fall for the propaganda of precision weapons. Drones, Tomahawks, and precision weapons have not prevented a ton of civilian casualties when the US military has acted in the last 30 years. An attack on North Korea would be a bloodbath for innocent people both in the North and the South.
Imperfected
Member
More to the point, Kim's regime has always effectively treated the population as de facto hostages, so you have to operate under the assumption he's going to do some heinous things to try and blunt any offensive. (Having civilians pack into military targets to use as "bomb shelters" disingenuously, starving his own people to feed the military, possibly even active genocide...)
Any attack on North Korea has to be made with the conviction to see it through despite what are likely to be considerable casualties. The opening assumption cannot be that it's possible to carry it out "cleanly", even if that's fully the intent going in.
callhitman
Member
Why does south Korea have so much built up near the border? I don't know how the population is spread out in the area.
perfectchaos007
Member
I wonder what % of Americans don't know Guam is a US territory. We all seem to know Puerto Rico is. Most know American Samoa is ( thanks to America in the name, same with American Virgin Islands ). But I bet theres an even lower % of Americans that know the Mariana Islands are a US territory.
Because Seoul has existed there for hundreds of years before the country split?
You can't exactly just pick up and move a city of millions.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
Imperfected
Member
The simple answer is that post-war Korea built up largely around the military presence in the country, which was primarily focused near the DMZ, aside from a few naval and air bases.
At the time of the war, for example, Uijeongbu was just the dusty nothing-hill where MASH was supposed to be set, and Seoul was almost completely destroyed and rebuilt as a show of modernization and economic recovery in the wake of the war.
I emailed someone stationed there, they're not concerned.
NK isn't this stupid, I don't think. They're used to their BS saber rattling and getting gifts for being good boys and girls. The problem this time even they have to surely realize is they're messing with the wrong Super Power, and most certainly the wrong President. Unless Un wants to go out in a spectacular suicidal fashion, they know full well if they do anything they will be erradicated so quickly it would pale "shock and awe." Trump will not back down and play silly games like others in the past. He will wipe all facets of that group from the face of the earth.
I still believe surely there has to be someone smart there to stop them from doing anything. Imagine if they follow their trend and decide to "test" launch something again soon. It will be seen as an attack and that's it. China will not turn on the US, they are a much more reasonable group and understand the role they play in the world and will respond correctly. They get involved against the US they will lose militarily, and, they also lost a major source of their power, US commerce.
NK isn't this stupid, I don't think. They're used to their BS saber rattling and getting gifts for being good boys and girls. The problem this time even they have to surely realize is they're messing with the wrong Super Power, and most certainly the wrong President. Unless Un wants to go out in a spectacular suicidal fashion, they know full well if they do anything they will be erradicated so quickly it would pale "shock and awe." Trump will not back down and play silly games like others in the past. He will wipe all facets of that group from the face of the earth.
I still believe surely there has to be someone smart there to stop them from doing anything. Imagine if they follow their trend and decide to "test" launch something again soon. It will be seen as an attack and that's it. China will not turn on the US, they are a much more reasonable group and understand the role they play in the world and will respond correctly. They get involved against the US they will lose militarily, and, they also lost a major source of their power, US commerce.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
you should read the threat.
it's contingent on the US signaling a imminent attack.
it's not just a threat to strike for no reason
callhitman
Member
NYCmetsfan
Banned
why do people comepletely ignore the damage to the US, Japan and SK. Parts of those countries would be "whiped off the face of the earth including LA, San Diego, Washington DC.
Sure we'd win but millions of our citizens could likely die.
Lack of education and bad parenting on the part of a lot of people.
tearsintherain
Member
This is the problem, a lot of you are making assumptions on the other side because its "rational" and its how YOU would think/act.
Kim Jong Un is extremely isolated, is surrounded by people who only tell him what he wants to hear, and he literally kills people who displease him. His world view is going to be EXTREMELY distorted. He is not watching MSNBC or having intelligent advisers give him advice on how to help his country, even guesses as to the things he cares about are pure guesses. Maybe he just wants to eat a lot of cheese and watch Space Jam all day.
Brief story: Saddam Hussein back over a decade ago blustered and threatened the world that he had WMDs and he would use them if anyone attacked Iraq. We now know that he had zilch, but interviews after his capture tell us that he thought faking the weapons would prevent the Iranians from attacking and he never thought the US would ever invade, just send a few airplane attacks which he could easily survive.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/27/saddam.cbs/index.html
It is foolish to assume your opponent will act rationally, in their self interest, or possess all the facts. Trump's a wildcard for sure but Kim Jong Un is beyond a wild card, nobody knows what he wants, what his position is, how stable his regime is, how much influence the Chinese have over him, or what he is going to do next.
That said past history is a pretty good indicator of future behavior, and he has exhibited this behavior before of wild threats leading to nothing.
Imperfected
Member
I'm not sure what fantasy scenario you have envisioned where a shootout between North Korea and the US results in Washington, DC being wiped off the face of the Earth.
NullPointer
Member
Not really. Its contingent upon 'provocations' like military maneuvers or US ICBM tests or any other shows of force.
It's sad and terrifying that a lot of that could be said about Trump
Isolated
Feed with constant praise
Distorted world view
Surrounded by idiots
No ones sure what he's thinking
Just wants to watch tv and play golf all day
