Support NeoGAF

[Rembrandt]

So your choice lies in late 2017.

Right MS killed Slim because gamers are unsure about buy it or wait the Scorpio... MS is not selling consoles.

In Sony case they gamer will buy one or another... they will just choose between one of the options... Sony is selling consoles.

Isn't Sony killing the slim by offering a more powerful console at the same time? Why would anyone that doesn't have one buy a slim if they think they're buying an immediately inferior product?

Doesn't the XB1 slim serve those that don't have one by offering a revised product at a cheaper price and by offering the cheapest 4K player allowing people to get involved in the ecosystem and trade it in or save until the release of the next console? I doubt people will go a year without playing titles they want if they're interested and they're being told that games will work between the two so there isn't as much FOMO.

 

[icespide]

some people were just waiting to pounce on this thread with the SonyToo stuff

 

[anothertech]

I'm betting against analyst on this one. Ps4 will be ps4. Regardless of newer design.

Sony has been very smart about their messaging.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Vanilla PS4 was $299 last holiday. Why all the fuzz with a new low-end / cost-optimized SKU without aiming for that $249 price tag right away?`Not to forget, the 4k playback capable XBOX One S costs 299 (at some point...), so without 4k support they have to undercut it's price anyhow.

 

[Freeman]

I think it will launch at 449$, maybe 499$. They'll market it as a premium model being above 399 actually helps to give that impression.

PS4 Slim 299$. Old PS4 will go to 249$ to clear stock.

If it ends up being 249$ and 399$, it will be a really aggressive push.

 

[ethomaz]

Isn't Sony killing the slim by offering a more powerful console at the same time? Why would anyone that doesn't have one buy a slim if they think they're buying an immediately inferior product?

Doesn't the XB1 slim serve those that don't have one by offering a revised product at a cheaper price and by offering the cheapest 4K player allowing people to get involved in the ecosystem and trade it in or save until the release of the next console? I doubt people will go a year without playing titles they want if they're interested and they're being told that games will work between the two so there isn't as much FOMO.

Slim or Neo sales for Sony is the same.

If somebody choose Neo over Slim is fine because Sony got the sale, the profit on games and maybe PS+ sub right now.

If somebody choose Scorpio over Slim then he will need to wait ˜1.5 years that means he can change the purchase decision, or no profit from games for this time and maybe no profit from live sub from this time.

Understood?

Apple sells iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus at the same day and for them what you choose doesn't matter.

 

[geordiemp]

6tf and most powerful console and next year is all they said.

How much will it cost, will it have it's own games, how will the vr solution work,are the cpu and ram rumors true, will the is the one getting left behind on vr.... all this stuff was nebulous and some is still unclear.

Now let's see when sony announces; if they get all this stuff up front and clear, or if they bungle it up the same way.

Both MS and Sony have said all games will be Ps4 or Xb1 ONLY, nobody left behind. They are just elite versions (better frame rate / resolution up to developer).

I think Scorpio will get its own VR games if it can take Occulus, as XB1 would not be capable.

 

[MaulerX]

So your choice lies in late 2017.

Right MS killed Slim because gamers are unsure about buy it or wait the Scorpio... MS is not selling consoles.

In Sony case they gamer will buy one or another... they will just choose between one of the options... Sony is selling consoles.

I guess it was pretty obvious the way difference approaches.... Sony is doing like iPhone 7 & iPhone 7 Plus releases... MS releasing iPhone 7 in August and iPhone 7 Plus in late 2017.

Horrible analogy. Did you actually think this through before typing?

 

[Pathfinder]

Isn't Sony killing the slim by offering a more powerful console at the same time? Why would anyone that doesn't have one buy a slim if they think they're buying an immediately inferior product?

Doesn't the XB1 slim serve those that don't have one by offering a revised product at a cheaper price and by offering the cheapest 4K player allowing people to get involved in the ecosystem and trade it in or save until the release of the next console? I doubt people will go a year without playing titles they want if they're interested and they're being told that games will work between the two so there isn't as much FOMO.

That's what I was thinking. If someone wants an Xbox One for this holiday season, they'll purchase the S. I find it hard to believe that very many people will hold off an entire year and a half for a console that doesn't have a shape or form yet, let alone a price point.

However, if both Slim and Neo were next to each other in the store, which one do you think kids will beg their parents for?

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

Good thing it's a rumor because all I want to say is Sony.. "Why?" 😦

But... I just really care about the Neo, finding out the concrete information and chilling with that.

 

[ethomaz]

Horrible analogy. Did you actually think this through before typing?

It is a great analogy... maybe you need to think a bit more

 

[billythemule]

If this is true, I hope it ends up being more like OG PS3 to PS3 slim. I hated the design of the super slim, it just felt cheap.

They already stealth-redesigned the PS4 and included better power/eject buttons. I'm guessing this would primarily focus on size?

I also hated the super slim. The original PS3 was super slick. It had touch buttons, was glossy and just generally looked like a high end machine. The slim version was okay but they put mechanical buttons on it and turned it matte which made it a little bit cheap in my eyes (but still a good little machine). Then there was the super slim with its sliding disc tray that gave me flashbacks of my PS1 days. For a while I was afraid that my PS3 would die one day and I would be forced to buy a super slim :S

Spoiler

It's still alive and well!

 

[MaulerX]

It is a perfect analogy... maybe you need to think a bit more

No need. Your analogy is horrible.

 

[icespide]

No need. Your analogy is horrible.

care to elaborate on why it's such a horrible analogy?

 

[Rembrandt]

Slim or Neo sales for Sony is the same.

If somebody choose Neo over Slim is fine because Sony got the sale, the profit on games and maybe PS+ sub right now.

If somebody choose Scorpio over Slim then he will need to wait ˜1.5 years that means he can change the purchase decision, or no profit from games for this time and maybe no profit from live sub from this time.

Understood?

Apple sells iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus at the same day and for them what you choose doesn't matter.

The target audience for the Scorpio isn't holding out a year and a half with all of the games coming out before then.

The concept is obviously simple but you're extremely confident in people waiting without playing games for a console aimed at enthusiasts which is stupid. You're ignoring the audience the slim is aimed at. You're ignoring its 4K capabilities. The timing isn't bad.

Its like announcing the iPhone 7 with everybody knowing the next version is releasing the following year.

We get console sales are console sales but one is gonna do worse than the other. Which is what people were criticizing originally.

 

[Brewmont]

Negative. The announcement was very teaser-like and left people asking many questions, to which ms representatives gave many answers, some of which conflicting. Then later on, spencer went on giant bomb and spoke at length about what they really meant to say. We were all here last week.

I mean, there were only "questions" if you're being willfully ignorant. Clearly Scorpio will be their "next gen" system, but until Xbox One S is phased out, all the games will be cross compatible. Eventually, when sales of Scorpio become significant enough, the power of the console will be used with Scorpio-only version games just like any other generation. They may have said that Scorpios power will be mainly for 4k and VR, but I mean....we all know how this works by now.

So your choice lies in late 2017.

Right MS killed Slim because gamers are unsure about buy it or wait the Scorpio... MS is not selling consoles.

In Sony case they gamer will buy one or another... they will just choose between one of the options... Sony is selling consoles..

I don't think you know how people in the world outside of our gaming bubble work. People will just see that there's a shiny new console that plays 4k blu rays and is cheap. Then next year when Scorpio launches they'll see a shiny new console that's crazy powerful.

 

[gtj1092]

Thread is reaching embarrassing levels quickly. I thought E3 week was over. The trolling on this page is low quality. "These two things are the same except for all the ways they are different". Hell one of things hasn't even happened yet. People are yelling at the clouds right now in defense of a plastic box.

 

[MaulerX]

care to elaborate on why it's such a horrible analogy?

He said:

MS releasing iPhone 7 in August and iPhone 7 Plus in late 2017.

Scorpio is so much more powerful than XB1/S that how can you say with a straight face that this is like iPhone 7 in August and iPhone 7 Plus next year? When we all know that the difference between those iPhones will probably be just one with a bigger screen with the same internals? Anyway I think I'll bow out of this. 😉

 

[ethomaz]

No need. Your analogy is horrible.

I can explain better for you...

Apple selling iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus at same day
- Consumer will choose one between the two models
- Consumer will start to use and be active in iPhone ecosystem
- Consumer will possible spend money on App Store or buy accessories/stuffs

Result: Apple have one more sale where the consumer will possible be using it money on iPhone ecosystem

Apple selling iPhone 7 today and iPhone 7 Plus in late 2017
- Consumer can buy the iPhone 7 today and have all the result of previous case

Or

- Consumer can wait the iPhone 7 Plus
-- Consumer won't be part of iPhone ecosystem for 1,5 year
-- Consumer won't spend money on App Store or Accessories
-- Consumer can change his mind and buy Galaxy S8

Result: Apple can sell the iPhone 7 with all the goods come with it OR Apple won't get the sale of iPhone 7 Plus and all the goods come with it for 1,5 year OR Apple will lose one sale and all the good come with it.


The later option (MS) have a lots of things that can goes wrong and fuck the MS sales for at least a year or forever.

 

[Mpl90]

Guys, it's an analyst's guessing, it's not a "rumour". Someone should contact a mod to change the thread's title.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Horrible analogy. Did you actually think this through before typing?

I'm sorry, but it seemed pretty clear to me.

 

[cooldawn]

yo you can upgrade it yourself its easy

Sorry, that post was a bit ambiguous. I mean I would like a 1TB or 2TB PS4 with new internals so I'd need to wait for a revision, rather than swapping my current HDD out.

 

[Bear Force One]

Rembrandt and Pathfinder, stand down. You're raging over an analyst guess. And it looks silly.

 

[LordofPwn]

whole lot of might...

I thought the rumors were that they couldn't really do a slim without a die shrink which would be more costly than to just upgrade the console?

 

[ethomaz]

I don't think you know how people in the world outside of our gaming bubble work. People will just see that there's a shiny new console that plays 4k blu rays and is cheap. Then next year when Scorpio launches they'll see a shiny new console that's crazy powerful.

That is why Slim is doing the world on fire, no? Slim will do a increase in sales for MS in August and it end like that because you know Scorpio is coming late 2017.

The fate of Slim Xbox One was set at reveal.

whole lot of might...

I thought the rumors were that they couldn't really do a slim without a die shrink which would be more costly than to just upgrade the console?

They did two die shrink with Cell... I bet it will be way cheaper with AMD GCN... the rumor was just unreliable to begin.

You gain more with die shrink than lost... selling millions of consoles with cheaper APU cover the cost to make it.

 

[GifGafIsTheBestGaf]

Will it get this slimmer?

finally i can put one in my car

wouldnt mind a super slim ala PS3 to be honest

 

[ScaryShark]

Isn't Sony killing the slim by offering a more powerful console at the same time? Why would anyone that doesn't have one buy a slim if they think they're buying an immediately inferior product?

If it has a compelling price point and Sony shows how they will support both products then there is definitely a market for it.

 

[Rembrandt]

Rembrandt and Pathfinder, stand down. You're raging over an analyst guess. And it looks silly.

Nobody's raging.

If it has a compelling price point and Sony shows how they will support both products then there is definitely a market for it.

We'll see, though i don't doubt Sony's support. It's not a hard sell by itself but I think its a bit harder if it launches around a console that makes it inferior instantly

 

[Humdinger]

He said "might." Big deal. Anyone can say it "might" be released.

 

[Pathfinder]

Rembrandt and Pathfinder, stand down. You're raging over an analyst guess. And it looks silly.

I'm not raging, I'm making a point.

 

[A.R.K]

I hope Sony picks the 5.5TF option with new CPU. I am willing to pay $499 for that. And they can delay the release to next year. A 4.2TF with slow CPU at $399 doesn't make sense to me.

 

[sense]

So if I want to play gears of War 4, I will go into a store and the only option I have is the xbox one s even though I would rather have the more powerful one but I have to wait. On the other hand if I wanted to play horizon, I can go into a store and pick up neo or slim or vanilla ps4 and not have to wait to play the games I want.

Do people not get why some are not happy with MS announcements looking at above example?

 

[wachie]

So your choice lies in late 2017.

Right MS killed Slim because gamers are unsure about buy it or wait the Scorpio... MS is not selling consoles.

In Sony case they gamer will buy one or another... they will just choose between one of the options... Sony is selling consoles.

I guess it was pretty obvious the way difference approaches.... Sony is doing like iPhone 7 & iPhone 7 Plus releases... MS releasing iPhone 7 in August and iPhone 7S Plus in late 2017.

I corrected your analogy.

 

[Bear Force One]

I'm not raging, I'm making a point.

There is no point. This isn't real.
It's silly.

 

[JayhawkerStL]

some people were just waiting to pounce on this thread with the SonyToo stuff

Waiting? It's just the thought that popped in my head when I saw the thread title.

 

[Rembrandt]

So if I want to play gears of War 4, I will go into a store and the only option I have is the xbox one s even though I would rather have the more powerful one but I have to wait. On the other hand if I wanted to play horizon, I can go into a store and pick up neo or slim or vanilla ps4 and not have to wait to play the games I want.

Do people not get why some are not happy with MS announcements looking at above example?

Are you gonna buy the console for Gears 4?

There is no point. This isn't real.
It's silly.

Then why have a thread if it has to be an echo chamber?

 

[LordofPwn]

That is why Slim is doing the world on fire, no? Slim will do a increase in sales for MS in August and it end like that because you know Scorpio is coming late 2017.

The fate of Slim Xbox One was set at reveal.


They did two die shrink with Cell... I bet it will be way cheaper with AMD GCN... the rumor was just unreliable to begin.

You gain more with die shrink than lost... selling millions of consoles with cheaper APU cover the cost to make it.

Cell was propriatory so they already had a line.
Hey AMD can you make us a smaller version of this chip you made for us? vs
Hey AMD can we use this new stuff you are already making in mass?

 

[TheMule1983]

So if I want to play gears of War 4, I will go into a store and the only option I have is the xbox one s even though I would rather have the more powerful one but I have to wait. On the other hand if I wanted to play horizon, I can go into a store and pick up neo or slim or vanilla ps4 and not have to wait to play the games I want.

Do people not get why some are not happy with MS announcements looking at above example?

So if you wanted to play Uncharted 4 right now, you would have to buy the Vanilla PS4 even though you want the Neo.

 

[ethomaz]

I corrected your analogy.

Fine.

I'm just trying to show the possible of not selling a console right now and losing profit from related until Scorpio comes... there is even the possibility in one year the consumer change the decision and buy a NX instead (it can be low but exists).

While selling both option at same time close these changes of lose the unit sale or profit from relates.

 

[B.O.O.M]

So if I want to play gears of War 4, I will go into a store and the only option I have is the xbox one s even though I would rather have the more powerful one but I have to wait. On the other hand if I wanted to play horizon, I can go into a store and pick up neo or slim or vanilla ps4 and not have to wait to play the games I want.

Do people not get why some are not happy with MS announcements looking at above example?

You make too much sense...sense

 

[ethomaz]

Cell was propriatory so they already had a line.
Hey AMD can you make us a smaller version of this chip you made for us? vs
Hey AMD can we use this new stuff you are already making in mass?

Wut?

Cell: Hey IBM can you made us a smaller version of this chip for us?

Sony needs both from AMD... need a project for a die shrink and the a project for Neo's chip... both will be made by TSMC.

They is no way a die shrink won't give profit selling millions of units... the rumor was dumb to begin.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

Fine.

I'm just trying to show the possible of not selling a console right now and losing profit from related until Scorpio comes... there is even the possibility in one year the consumer change the decision and buy a NX instead (it can be low but exists).

While selling both option at same time close these changes of lose the unit sale or profit from relates.

Is Apple losing the iPhone 8 unit sale by not having it on sale at the same time as the iPhone 7S?

 

[icespide]

Is Apple losing the iPhone 8 unit sale by not having it on sale at the same time as the iPhone 7S?

Apple doesn't announce the iPhone 8 an hour after they unveil the 7S

 

[mrklaw]

Size is fine considering it needs a bluray drive, internal HDD and internal power supply. Even with a small chip shrink and cooler shrink that won't make a massive difference. If it needs less cooling I'd rather they keep the current cooler and run it slower so it's quieter.

Maybe they mean 'slim' as in a refresh. Replace the standard PS4 with a die shrink chip (if it is actually cheaper, jury seems out on that), HDMI2.0 and UHD bluray drive along with 4K streaming services and movie downloads. Something to compete with Xbox one S.

Presumably neo will have all that too, but at a higher price so I think it makes sense for Sony to want 4K media in a more affordable box.

 

[Rembrandt]

Apple doesn't announce the iPhone 8 an hour after they unveil the 7S

If the iPhone comes out on a yearly interval, does it really matter?

 

[icespide]

If the iPhone comes out on a yearly interval, does it really matter?

iPhone is such a known quantity at this point and people are more than familiar with their release cycles so its hard to compare it to this new console thing.

that said, knowing a new model is coming is different than it literally being teased in front of your face with a bunch of engineers telling you how awesome it is

 

[blue_phazon]

So if I want to play gears of War 4, I will go into a store and the only option I have is the xbox one s even though I would rather have the more powerful one but I have to wait. On the other hand if I wanted to play horizon, I can go into a store and pick up neo or slim or vanilla ps4 and not have to wait to play the games I want.

Do people not get why some are not happy with MS announcements looking at above example?

Uh...I don't see the issue?

If MS never announced the Scorpio at all, you'd buy the S and then get bummed out midway through 2017 when the Scorpio gets revealed.

The reason you consider waiting for the Scorpio as an option at all is because they announced it early.

As a consumer, it's better to know beforehand.

 

[ElFly]

If the price difference was just $100, they would not bother with the Slim.

Gonna be $300 Slim/ $500 Neo

 

[ethomaz]

Is Apple losing the iPhone 8 unit sale by not having it on sale at the same time as the iPhone 7S?

If they announce iPhone 8 at the announce event of iPhone 7? Yes.

Apple doing MS "We are happy to announce iPhone 7 will be on stores next week and next late year we will launch the iPhone 8 with 4x the processing power of iPhone 7"

Apple doing Sony "We are happy to announce two versions of iPhone. A cheaper iPhone 7 and a high-end iPhone 8 both available next week on stores"

 

[sense]

So if you wanted to play Uncharted 4 right now, you would have to buy the Vanilla PS4 even though you want the Neo.

Sony hasn't come out and said the most powerful console is coming out next year, don't buy this shiny new slim console.