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|OT| Hillary Clinton testifies before the House Select Committee on Benghazi

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I'm seeing every news outlet saying Hillary was in full command of facts during the hearing, didn't break a single sweat and remained largely unscathed coming out of the hearing. Dana Bash from CNN suggesting the Republicans are thinking 'imadeahugemistake.gif'. One report said she went stronger coming out than going in, and other said this will have the opposite of GOP wants: the undecided, independents and lean democrats will now come home to Hillary camp.

In other words, lolgop.
I continue to feel like the GOP doesn't really care about this, like they've accepted that they will probably not win the White House so they focus on keeping the base angry and voting for their House Reps and Senators. With the gerrymandered districts they are guaranteed to win as long as they can tell people they fought the good fight against Hilldog but she just lied to them and still won't give up the "truth". The base will probably LOVE this hearing and the simple fact that it happened will engorge their hate boners even further.
 
I continue to feel like the GOP doesn't really care about this, like they've accepted that they will probably not win the White House so they focus on keeping the base angry and voting for their House Reps and Senators. With the gerrymandered districts they are guaranteed to win as long as they can tell people they fought the good fight against Hilldog but she just lied to them and still won't give up the "truth". The base will probably LOVE this hearing and the simple fact that it happened will engorge their hate boners even further.

Winner, winner chicken dinner.
 
I'm seeing every news outlet saying Hillary was in full command of facts during the hearing, didn't break a single sweat and remained largely unscathed coming out of the hearing. Dana Bash from CNN suggesting the Republicans are thinking 'imadeahugemistake.gif'. One report said she went stronger coming out than going in, and other said this will have the opposite of GOP wants: the undecided, independents and lean democrats will now come home to Hillary camp.

In other words, lolgop.

Fox News is saying she should be going to jail and her campaign is officially ruined because she was caught lying. I'm not lying.
 
I'm seeing every news outlet saying Hillary was in full command of facts during the hearing, didn't break a single sweat and remained largely unscathed coming out of the hearing. Dana Bash from CNN suggesting the Republicans are thinking 'imadeahugemistake.gif'. One report said she went stronger coming out than going in, and other said this will have the opposite of GOP wants: the undecided, independents and lean democrats will now come home to Hillary camp.

In other words, lolgop.

It's still so far out to even talk about undecideds and independents. That's a whole different ballgame during the generals. Americans have short term memory disorder, no less.
 
Note to self: I need to write to Schiff and Cummings. They stuck to facts, and pointed out many hypocrisies in the GOP crusade. They need to be thanked.
 

Piggus

Member
GOOD. This GOP is a complete disgrace to the USA and to the world. I hope they crumble and form a better, more sensible party in the future.

Also, I just watched the CSPAN "white caucus" clip on Youtube. Last night I thought it was a fake or some joke caller. But nope... It's real. How are these kinds of people surviving in the modern day world?

Probably by being on social welfare programs that they actively vote against. They're too stupid to hold an actual job so they sit around watching daytime TV and cspan all day while collecting unemployment or Medicaid benefits.
 
I continue to feel like the GOP doesn't really care about this, like they've accepted that they will probably not win the White House so they focus on keeping the base angry and voting for their House Reps and Senators. With the gerrymandered districts they are guaranteed to win as long as they can tell people they fought the good fight against Hilldog but she just lied to them and still won't give up the "truth". The base will probably LOVE this hearing and the simple fact that it happened will engorge their hate boners even further.

Which we can currently see as a losing strategy for the establishment. Their base is pissed and will continue to be upset with unfulfilled promises. Trump and Carson leading and Bush nearly having to drop out and reducing staff payments exemplifies this. Their base is frothing. It might be prudent to put some smoke on those bees instead of the continued poking of the hive. The freedom caucus is preventing this I suppose. Pretty wild condition the party is in.
 

HylianTom

Banned
I continue to feel like the GOP doesn't really care about this, like they've accepted that they will probably not win the White House so they focus on keeping the base angry and voting for their House Reps and Senators. With the gerrymandered districts they are guaranteed to win as long as they can tell people they fought the good fight against Hilldog but she just lied to them and still won't give up the "truth". The base will probably LOVE this hearing and the simple fact that it happened will engorge their hate boners even further.

That's been in the back of my mind for a while.

Deep down, many of the GOP's voters know that the electoral math, in all probability, just isn't there. So why not run a "fuck you!" candidate? As the base sees it, the party's leadership and their own elected officials have betrayed them repeatedly.. so why not screw them over?

Meanwhile, I wonder if the establishment, too, knows that the electoral math just isn't there. So why not allow the base to throw their little temper tantrum? Let 'em nominate one of the crazies, let their preferred kook be at the receiving end of a Goldwateresque thrashing, and then leadership would be able to come back in 2020 and say, "We did it your way, Tea Partiers. It failed spectacularly. Now we do things our way."

Losing three Presidential elections in a row (and at that point it would be 6 of the last 7 popular votes), with the last one in dramatic fashion, would allow megadonors to basically dictate to the party: "Things are changing, or we're bolting."
 
Which we can currently see as a losing strategy for the establishment. Their base is pissed and will continue to be upset with unfulfilled promises. Trump and Carson leading and Bush nearly having to drop out and reducing staff payments exemplifies this. Their base is frothing. It might be prudent to put some smoke on those bees instead of the continued poking of the hive. The freedom caucus is preventing this I suppose. Pretty wild condition the party is in.
Yeah this is the best part, their plan B for staying somewhat in power isn't even going to work out in the long run. They keep promising to take down gay rights, the ACA, Hillary, abortions, etc. and while they have thrown in some speed bumps for some, those things are not going away and they know it.
 
Here's a thought experiment for you. If you were conservative rather than progressive, and someone told you that both parties are essentially the same (ie they're organizations whose only real purpose is to get people to vote for them) what do you think your response would look like? Would it look more or less like the inverse to what you just posted?

Only if the response was littered with stupid shit and faulty reasoning to excuse a party from being discriminatory, homophobic, and immune to logic. I have my own opinions that I've come to based on life experiences and trying to be as informed as I possibly can. I find that one thing that is the same for both sides is a lot of people aren't informed. I find more conservatives, particularly when it comes to the media, have no real interest in the truth. These hearings and practically all of Fox News' programming is proof of that so I wouldn't call it anecdotal. They want an enemy, they want someone to be angry at. That way they can point and go "This is the problem with America!". That person or thing becomes the focal point and the lies spring up from there. If we let the right wing media tell it, the mainstream media is lying to the average american. Yet the right wing media DOMINATES the mainstream media. They ARE the mainstream media. Yet you could hear that sentiment in the hearings, over and over, that "The American people want to know!" phrase. It reminds me of when reporters write things like "Opponents say... blah blah blah" without actually citing opponents. Instead it's the way for the reporter to introduce a contrarian viewpoint, a lot of times it's their own.

Anyway, it's hard not to go off on a tangent about this and not include the media. I think the big issue here is critical thinking. People who take their news from Brietbart or the Blaze and taking it as fact are the issue. These sites are dumbing down public discourse because they do not require anyone to stop and actually THINK about what is being said. The same as from a super left wing organization. I saw something the other day from some blog called ifyouonlynews.com and they had this clip about Jeb Bush being speechless when asked about 9/11 and Benghazi. He wasn't speechless, he stuttered a bit, but the way they worded it, and the editorial content in the article made it seem like Jeb was complete fuck stick who couldn't string together 5 words to make a sentence, let alone answer the actual question. And what they wrote wasn't true. The same way Glenn Beck talks about people being rounded up into FEMA trailers, Breitbart saying the government is going to start chipping us so they can track us, or Sarah Palin talking about death panels. Anyone who stopped and said "... wait a second" in regards to any of this would see it's bullshit. The fact is this kind of "news" reporting creates a side who's members treat it like dogma. It basically turns politics into the NFL. It's "Go team" and it allows the obstruction we've seen take place over the last 8 years.

All these sites and news programs traffic outrage.

In regards to if both sides are the same, per my previous comment, I could see that flying in the 70s and 80s. Even in the 90s to an extent. But there has been one group of politicians who've led us into two wars, exploded the deficit, who don't want to raise minimum wage, who want it to be okay to discriminate against people based on their sexual preference, who want christian laws to supersede federal law, who want to let the banks do what they want even though they crashed our economy, who wanted to let the auto industry die, who don't want people to have access to healthcare, who want to regulate a woman's reproductive system, but do think a corporation is a person. It's pretty disproportionate.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
You know, the craziest thing about the Benghazi Witch Project was that Gowdy and his idiot colleagues seemed legitimately shocked that they fucked up so bad. I mean, really? You goons had no organization, no coordination, no actual fucking points to any of the shit that you brought up, including the "new" evidence, which in many cases wasn't new at all, but rather re-packaged to appear new. And yet you goobers are shocked that you weren't able to get Hillary to confess that she ordered the hit on Ambassador Stevens?

This reminds of that other wonderful moment in politics where Diamond Joe went up against the golden Boy of the GOP during the debates. After having his balls washed by not just Republicans, but mainstream pundits and commentators as well, for being the premiere "serious thinker" of the Republican party, Paul Ryan really did seem to fool himself into thinking that he was in fact the teenage prodigy that everyone held him up to be. And so the boy genius went into the debates thinking that he would easily make short work of the buffanooish Vice President, only to realize that while speaking in complete sentences might have qualified him to be considered "gifted" among Republicans, it would do him no favors against anyone outside that sphere. He learned that while he could brag about being the tallest midget, at the end of the day, he was still a midget.

And I feel that that's what happened during the lead up to the hearing yesterday. Republicans (once again) fooled themselves into thinking that the reason they hadn't caught Hillary was not because they didn't have squat on her, but because Darrel Issa was doing an incompetent job investigating her. So this Trey Gowdy jackass comes onto the scene and Republicans and the mainstream media start praising him as the "serious" and "competent" prosecutor with years of experience who would be able to succeed where Issa failed. Just like with Ryan, Gowdy probably let this newfound laudation go to his head, and probably figured he'd have Hillary in handcuffs before lunchtime.

Of course, also like Ryan, Gowdy failed to realize that a flat earther with a PhD in geology, is still, in fact a flat-earther.
 

Mollymauk

Member
GOP was all

Qawy8L8.gif
 
You know, the craziest thing about the Benghazi Witch Project was that Gowdy and his idiot colleagues seemed legitimately shocked that they fucked up so bad. I mean, really? You goons had no organization, no coordination, no actual fucking points to any of the shit that you brought up, including the "new" evidence, which in many cases wasn't new at all, but rather re-packaged to appear new. And yet you goobers are shocked that you weren't able to get Hillary to confess that she ordered the hit on Ambassador Stevens?

This reminds of that other wonderful moment in politics where Diamond Joe went up against the golden Boy of the GOP during the debates. After having his balls washed by not just Republicans, but mainstream pundits and commentators as well, for being the premiere "serious thinker" of the Republican party, Paul Ryan really did seem to fool himself into thinking that he was in fact the teenage prodigy that everyone held him up to be. And so the boy genius went into the debates thinking that he would easily make short work of the buffanooish Vice President, only to realize that while speaking in complete sentences might have qualified him to be considered "gifted" among Republicans, it would do him no favors against anyone outside that sphere. He learned that while he could brag about being the tallest midget, at the end of the day, he was still a midget.

And I feel that that's what happened during the lead up to the hearing yesterday. Republicans (once again) fooled themselves into thinking that the reason they hadn't caught Hillary was not because they didn't have squat on her, but because Darrel Issa was doing an incompetent job investigating her. So this Trey Gowdy jackass comes onto the scene and Republicans and the mainstream media start praising him as the "serious" and "competent" prosecutor with years of experience who would be able to succeed where Issa failed. Just like with Ryan, Gowdy probably let this newfound laudation go to his head, and probably figured he'd have Hillary in handcuffs before lunchtime.

Of course, also like Ryan, Gowdy failed to realize that a flat earther with a PhD in geology, is still, in fact a flat-earther.
Beautiful.
 
Read this thread from beginning to end; if I was American I'd feel infuriated at having people this stupid/incompetent/salty (Republicans) actually vying for control of the country. Though it doesn't seem much better here in Australia.

Hillary must feel like she could challenge anything after surviving that gauntlet.
 

Toxi

Banned
You know, the craziest thing about the Benghazi Witch Project was that Gowdy and his idiot colleagues seemed legitimately shocked that they fucked up so bad. I mean, really? You goons had no organization, no coordination, no actual fucking points to any of the shit that you brought up, including the "new" evidence, which in many cases wasn't new at all, but rather re-packaged to appear new. And yet you goobers are shocked that you weren't able to get Hillary to confess that she ordered the hit on Ambassador Stevens?

This reminds of that other wonderful moment in politics where Diamond Joe went up against the golden Boy of the GOP during the debates. After having his balls washed by not just Republicans, but mainstream pundits and commentators as well, for being the premiere "serious thinker" of the Republican party, Paul Ryan really did seem to fool himself into thinking that he was in fact the teenage prodigy that everyone held him up to be. And so the boy genius went into the debates thinking that he would easily make short work of the buffanooish Vice President, only to realize that while speaking in complete sentences might have qualified him to be considered "gifted" among Republicans, it would do him no favors against anyone outside that sphere. He learned that while he could brag about being the tallest midget, at the end of the day, he was still a midget.

And I feel that that's what happened during the lead up to the hearing yesterday. Republicans (once again) fooled themselves into thinking that the reason they hadn't caught Hillary was not because they didn't have squat on her, but because Darrel Issa was doing an incompetent job investigating her. So this Trey Gowdy jackass comes onto the scene and Republicans and the mainstream media start praising him as the "serious" and "competent" prosecutor with years of experience who would be able to succeed where Issa failed. Just like with Ryan, Gowdy probably let this newfound laudation go to his head, and probably figured he'd have Hillary in handcuffs before lunchtime.

Of course, also like Ryan, Gowdy failed to realize that a flat earther with a PhD in geology, is still, in fact a flat-earther.
Damn. This has so much goddamn truth in it.

The Republicans need to start looking outside the echo chamber when evaluating their talent.
 

Armaros

Member
Damn. This has so much goddamn truth in it.

The Republicans need to start looking outside the echo chamber when evaluating their talent.

Reminds me of how Romney was so sure of winning on Election Day because of the ludicrously biased polling inside the bubble, that he didn't have a concessions speech ahead of time.
 
Can someone give me the cliff notes version of the controversy that happened with Fox News over these hearings? Something about them cutting away from the hearings or something but I don't get the whole hoopla.

What happened?
 

Monocle

Member
Only if the response was littered with stupid shit and faulty reasoning to excuse a party from being discriminatory, homophobic, and immune to logic. I have my own opinions that I've come to based on life experiences and trying to be as informed as I possibly can. I find that one thing that is the same for both sides is a lot of people aren't informed. I find more conservatives, particularly when it comes to the media, have no real interest in the truth. These hearings and practically all of Fox News' programming is proof of that so I wouldn't call it anecdotal. They want an enemy, they want someone to be angry at. That way they can point and go "This is the problem with America!". That person or thing becomes the focal point and the lies spring up from there. If we let the right wing media tell it, the mainstream media is lying to the average american. Yet the right wing media DOMINATES the mainstream media. They ARE the mainstream media. Yet you could hear that sentiment in the hearings, over and over, that "The American people want to know!" phrase. It reminds me of when reporters write things like "Opponents say... blah blah blah" without actually citing opponents. Instead it's the way for the reporter to introduce a contrarian viewpoint, a lot of times it's their own.

Anyway, it's hard not to go off on a tangent about this and not include the media. I think the big issue here is critical thinking. People who take their news from Brietbart or the Blaze and taking it as fact are the issue. These sites are dumbing down public discourse because they do not require anyone to stop and actually THINK about what is being said. The same as from a super left wing organization. I saw something the other day from some blog called ifyouonlynews.com and they had this clip about Jeb Bush being speechless when asked about 9/11 and Benghazi. He wasn't speechless, he stuttered a bit, but the way they worded it, and the editorial content in the article made it seem like Jeb was complete fuck stick who couldn't string together 5 words to make a sentence, let alone answer the actual question. And what they wrote wasn't true. The same way Glenn Beck talks about people being rounded up into FEMA trailers, Breitbart saying the government is going to start chipping us so they can track us, or Sarah Palin talking about death panels. Anyone who stopped and said "... wait a second" in regards to any of this would see it's bullshit. The fact is this kind of "news" reporting creates a side who's members treat it like dogma. It basically turns politics into the NFL. It's "Go team" and it allows the obstruction we've seen take place over the last 8 years.

All these sites and news programs traffic outrage.

In regards to if both sides are the same, per my previous comment, I could see that flying in the 70s and 80s. Even in the 90s to an extent. But there has been one group of politicians who've led us into two wars, exploded the deficit, who don't want to raise minimum wage, who want it to be okay to discriminate against people based on their sexual preference, who want christian laws to supersede federal law, who want to let the banks do what they want even though they crashed our economy, who wanted to let the auto industry die, who don't want people to have access to healthcare, who want to regulate a woman's reproductive system, but do think a corporation is a person. It's pretty disproportionate.

You know, the craziest thing about the Benghazi Witch Project was that Gowdy and his idiot colleagues seemed legitimately shocked that they fucked up so bad. I mean, really? You goons had no organization, no coordination, no actual fucking points to any of the shit that you brought up, including the "new" evidence, which in many cases wasn't new at all, but rather re-packaged to appear new. And yet you goobers are shocked that you weren't able to get Hillary to confess that she ordered the hit on Ambassador Stevens?

This reminds of that other wonderful moment in politics where Diamond Joe went up against the golden Boy of the GOP during the debates. After having his balls washed by not just Republicans, but mainstream pundits and commentators as well, for being the premiere "serious thinker" of the Republican party, Paul Ryan really did seem to fool himself into thinking that he was in fact the teenage prodigy that everyone held him up to be. And so the boy genius went into the debates thinking that he would easily make short work of the buffanooish Vice President, only to realize that while speaking in complete sentences might have qualified him to be considered "gifted" among Republicans, it would do him no favors against anyone outside that sphere. He learned that while he could brag about being the tallest midget, at the end of the day, he was still a midget.

And I feel that that's what happened during the lead up to the hearing yesterday. Republicans (once again) fooled themselves into thinking that the reason they hadn't caught Hillary was not because they didn't have squat on her, but because Darrel Issa was doing an incompetent job investigating her. So this Trey Gowdy jackass comes onto the scene and Republicans and the mainstream media start praising him as the "serious" and "competent" prosecutor with years of experience who would be able to succeed where Issa failed. Just like with Ryan, Gowdy probably let this newfound laudation go to his head, and probably figured he'd have Hillary in handcuffs before lunchtime.

Of course, also like Ryan, Gowdy failed to realize that a flat earther with a PhD in geology, is still, in fact a flat-earther.
Good posts.
 

GnawtyDog

Banned
You know, the craziest thing about the Benghazi Witch Project was that Gowdy and his idiot colleagues seemed legitimately shocked that they fucked up so bad. I mean, really? You goons had no organization, no coordination, no actual fucking points to any of the shit that you brought up, including the "new" evidence, which in many cases wasn't new at all, but rather re-packaged to appear new. And yet you goobers are shocked that you weren't able to get Hillary to confess that she ordered the hit on Ambassador Stevens?

They did have organization, coordination and talking points. Majority of the talking points didn't stick. The ones that still stick are not big enough for the majority of the populace to flap an eye about. Not to mention when there is nothing of actual substance to indict Clinton with, you're simply using rhetoric that gets you nowhere with someone as polished as Clinton.

In short, they lost that battle.
 

TyrantII

Member
GOOD. This GOP is a complete disgrace to the USA and to the world. I hope they crumble and form a better, more sensible party in the future.

Also, I just watched the CSPAN "white caucus" clip on Youtube. Last night I thought it was a fake or some joke caller. But nope... It's real. How are these kinds of people surviving in the modern day world?

Government subsidies

/really
 
You know, the craziest thing about the Benghazi Witch Project was that Gowdy and his idiot colleagues seemed legitimately shocked that they fucked up so bad. I mean, really? You goons had no organization, no coordination, no actual fucking points to any of the shit that you brought up, including the "new" evidence, which in many cases wasn't new at all, but rather re-packaged to appear new. And yet you goobers are shocked that you weren't able to get Hillary to confess that she ordered the hit on Ambassador Stevens?

This reminds of that other wonderful moment in politics where Diamond Joe went up against the golden Boy of the GOP during the debates. After having his balls washed by not just Republicans, but mainstream pundits and commentators as well, for being the premiere "serious thinker" of the Republican party, Paul Ryan really did seem to fool himself into thinking that he was in fact the teenage prodigy that everyone held him up to be. And so the boy genius went into the debates thinking that he would easily make short work of the buffanooish Vice President, only to realize that while speaking in complete sentences might have qualified him to be considered "gifted" among Republicans, it would do him no favors against anyone outside that sphere. He learned that while he could brag about being the tallest midget, at the end of the day, he was still a midget.

And I feel that that's what happened during the lead up to the hearing yesterday. Republicans (once again) fooled themselves into thinking that the reason they hadn't caught Hillary was not because they didn't have squat on her, but because Darrel Issa was doing an incompetent job investigating her. So this Trey Gowdy jackass comes onto the scene and Republicans and the mainstream media start praising him as the "serious" and "competent" prosecutor with years of experience who would be able to succeed where Issa failed. Just like with Ryan, Gowdy probably let this newfound laudation go to his head, and probably figured he'd have Hillary in handcuffs before lunchtime.

Of course, also like Ryan, Gowdy failed to realize that a flat earther with a PhD in geology, is still, in fact a flat-earther.

I'm very glad I missed this yesterday and read it this morning. You've started my day off perfectly.
 

Mobius 1

Member
You know, the craziest thing about the Benghazi Witch Project was that Gowdy and his idiot colleagues seemed legitimately shocked that they fucked up so bad. I mean, really? You goons had no organization, no coordination, no actual fucking points to any of the shit that you brought up, including the "new" evidence, which in many cases wasn't new at all, but rather re-packaged to appear new. And yet you goobers are shocked that you weren't able to get Hillary to confess that she ordered the hit on Ambassador Stevens?

This reminds of that other wonderful moment in politics where Diamond Joe went up against the golden Boy of the GOP during the debates. After having his balls washed by not just Republicans, but mainstream pundits and commentators as well, for being the premiere "serious thinker" of the Republican party, Paul Ryan really did seem to fool himself into thinking that he was in fact the teenage prodigy that everyone held him up to be. And so the boy genius went into the debates thinking that he would easily make short work of the buffanooish Vice President, only to realize that while speaking in complete sentences might have qualified him to be considered "gifted" among Republicans, it would do him no favors against anyone outside that sphere. He learned that while he could brag about being the tallest midget, at the end of the day, he was still a midget.

And I feel that that's what happened during the lead up to the hearing yesterday. Republicans (once again) fooled themselves into thinking that the reason they hadn't caught Hillary was not because they didn't have squat on her, but because Darrel Issa was doing an incompetent job investigating her. So this Trey Gowdy jackass comes onto the scene and Republicans and the mainstream media start praising him as the "serious" and "competent" prosecutor with years of experience who would be able to succeed where Issa failed. Just like with Ryan, Gowdy probably let this newfound laudation go to his head, and probably figured he'd have Hillary in handcuffs before lunchtime.

Of course, also like Ryan, Gowdy failed to realize that a flat earther with a PhD in geology, is still, in fact a flat-earther.

Bravo.
 

Wall

Member
Shit like this is going to keep happening because the Republicans don't have any incentive to moderate. As long as they can hunker down in districts where demographics and gerrymandering give Republicans an advantage, Republican congressmen have every incentive to continue staging these sideshows. All moderating or even not appearing sufficiently extreme does for Republicans is invite a primary challenge. Look at what happened to Eric Cantor.

The good news is that voter turnout is abysmal in at least some of these districts. The problem for Democrats is that they simply aren't organized in rural areas in the same way Republicans are. In rural areas, conservative churches and organizations like the NRA are reliable engines for turning out Republican votes. The Democrats don't really have any comparable organizations to compete with that. In addition, Democrats don't always even run candidates in rural areas.

Thankfully, there organizations trying to change that, such as Democracy for America, but they face an uphill struggle.
 

Doc Holliday

SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Oblivion, thank you sir. That went very nicely with my coffee.

Hey remember when the democrats ivestigated the Bush administration this way? Oh right it never happened. Just imagine all the goodies we would have found if the democrats had investigated with the same kinda of vigor.
 

Lothar

Banned
Did anyone watch the whole 11 hours? Is there anything in it worth seeing? Like did Hillary have a particularly outstanding response to something that made the whole thing look dumb?

I'm curious to know when Hillary gave the best responses, when the committee had their strongest arguments (What would a republican think the best part was?), and when it got the most heated. Is there a video summary?
 

BigDug13

Member
That's been in the back of my mind for a while.

Deep down, many of the GOP's voters know that the electoral math, in all probability, just isn't there. So why not run a "fuck you!" candidate? As the base sees it, the party's leadership and their own elected officials have betrayed them repeatedly.. so why not screw them over?

Meanwhile, I wonder if the establishment, too, knows that the electoral math just isn't there. So why not allow the base to throw their little temper tantrum? Let 'em nominate one of the crazies, let their preferred kook be at the receiving end of a Goldwateresque thrashing, and then leadership would be able to come back in 2020 and say, "We did it your way, Tea Partiers. It failed spectacularly. Now we do things our way."

Losing three Presidential elections in a row (and at that point it would be 6 of the last 7 popular votes), with the last one in dramatic fashion, would allow megadonors to basically dictate to the party: "Things are changing, or we're bolting."

I don't know. This all sounds plausible until you look at how divided establishment GOP and Tea Party representatives are in the House. Getting the Republican base super pissed has caused a new breed of "all government is bad" (Tea Party) candidates to start winning and the Republican Party is tearing itself up from the inside.

Is a further march towards replacing establishment Conservatives with more Tea Party candidates really what they want? Because aiming to continue to severely demonize anything Democrats do continues to push the ideal Republican candidate further right.
 
So are dems going to get aggressive and try to keep the media informed on how much a waste of money this was this coming week or will they let Fox and Limbaugh control the narrative again and switch topics so everyone thinks this hearing didn't count?

I'm betting the latter.
 

woolley

Member
Did anyone watch the whole 11 hours? Is there anything in it worth seeing? Like did Hillary have a particularly outstanding response to something that made the whole thing look dumb?

I'm curious to know when Hillary gave the best responses, when the committee had their strongest arguments (What would a republican think the best part was?), and when it got the most heated. Is there a video summary?
Not really, most of the highlights of Hillary are her just being giving her answers calmly as the GOP tried to rile her up and put words in her mouth.
 
So are dems going to get aggressive and try to keep the media informed on how much a waste of money this was this coming week or will they let Fox and Limbaugh control the narrative again and switch topics so everyone thinks this hearing didn't count?

I'm betting the latter.
I don't know if it matters; everybody I know who isn't a dedicated Republican thinks Hillary made them all look like idiots.
 

Sobriquet

Member
So are dems going to get aggressive and try to keep the media informed on how much a waste of money this was this coming week or will they let Fox and Limbaugh control the narrative again and switch topics so everyone thinks this hearing didn't count?

I'm betting the latter.

I think they've been doing a good job leading into the hearing. Something like 75% of Americans think it's a sham. I can't wait to see the post-hearing polls.
 
So are dems going to get aggressive and try to keep the media informed on how much a waste of money this was this coming week or will they let Fox and Limbaugh control the narrative again and switch topics so everyone thinks this hearing didn't count?

I'm betting the latter.

Hurricane Patricia already killed the story the next day. The general is such a long way off (more than a year!) - no way the passion for this hearing will be a strong that far down the line.
 

120v

Member
So are dems going to get aggressive and try to keep the media informed on how much a waste of money this was this coming week or will they let Fox and Limbaugh control the narrative again and switch topics so everyone thinks this hearing didn't count?

I'm betting the latter.

remember benghazi was supposed to be the slam dunk that sunk obama's campaign... in 2012. which is a lifetime ago in politics. it's a retread of a retread.

the only caveat being the OMG EMAILS putting a different angle on it. but it's looking like they're running out of ammo on that front as well
 
Hurricane Patricia already killed the story the next day. The general is such a long way off (more than a year!) - no way the passion for this hearing will be a strong that far down the line.

And that's okay. This wasn't going to be a rallying cry for the Democrats that's going to last another twelve months.

Hillary Clinton accomplished what she wanted. She embarrassed the Republicans on the select committee, and pretty definitively laid to rest any hope the GOP had of using Benghazi as a campaign issue against her. If they're stupid enough to keep rehashing it during the GE - and I suspect they might - then the Democrats can counter with what a farce that hearing was.
 
And that's okay. This wasn't going to be a rallying cry for the Democrats that's going to last another twelve months.

Hillary Clinton accomplished what she wanted. She embarrassed the Republicans on the select committee, and pretty definitively laid to rest any hope the GOP had of using Benghazi as a campaign issue against her. If they're stupid enough to keep rehashing it during the GE - and I suspect they might - then the Democrats can counter with what a farce that hearing was.

If it's Trump I doubt he will bring it up at all. This is an establishment crusade, which inevitably might be irrelevant.
 
If it's Trump I doubt he will bring it up at all. This is an establishment crusade, which inevitably might be irrelevant.

Maybe, maybe not. The Benghazi hearings were purely partisan, and the GOP's goal was not to find "the truth" of what happened, but to extract one damaging soundbite from Hillary Clinton that they could use in the GE, and it didn't happen. Had Hillary Clinton said something that badly incriminated her, I wouldn't doubt any candidate in the GOP field would have used it in the GE, establishment or not.

But by in large, I agree, this was an establishment crusade.

remember benghazi was supposed to be the slam dunk that sunk obama's campaign... in 2012. which is a lifetime ago in politics. it's a retread of a retread.

the only caveat being the OMG EMAILS putting a different angle on it. but it's looking like they're running out of ammo on that front as well

The email scandal started losing steam a few weeks ago. Benghazi and the email scandals are largely tied, and once McCarthy let it slip that the Benghazi hearings were in the interest of hurting Hillary Clinton's electability, it cast aspersions on the email scandal as well. Now both look like partisan attempts to damage Hillary Clinton's chances of becoming president.
 
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