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[Kai Dracon]

Needs more rap.

Yo, back off homes,
Ya know, things break!

But it's okay!
It is the shank!

 

[kzkb1]

I really enjoy fish and chips.

 

[WickedLaharl]

but things do break.

 

[adamsappel]

Please post in the My 360 died... thread, if your console has done so.

NeoGAF may have 20,000+ members LTD, but there's no way that number is remotely accurate to current active membership. How many have been banned or moved on? How many are OT-only posters? How many own a 360, which is the only number that matters? tokkun, why don't you do some of that statistics magic with the NeoGAF dead console numbers?

I believe arne (hell, he admitted his own 360 broke down) when he says he worked the numbers and they fell within the 3-5% range. BUT, did he use shipped or sold numbers? Using sold, the number should go up. Are the failure numbers total number sent back or individual units returned? I think the refurbs they send out will most likely break again, thus skewing the rate artificially higher. MS isn't doing themselves any favors with refurbs.

As someone pointed out, even if the number is within industry standard, the perception is that a breakdown is inevitable, and Peter Moore isn't the best at damage control.

 

[Firewire]

Please post in the My 360 died... thread, if your console has done so.

NeoGAF may have 20,000+ members LTD, but there's no way that number is remotely accurate to current active membership. How many have been banned or moved on? How many are OT-only posters? How many own a 360, which is the only number that matters? tokkun, why don't you do some of that statistics magic with the NeoGAF dead console numbers?

I believe arne (hell, he admitted his own 360 broke down) when he says he worked the numbers and they fell within the 3-5% range. BUT, did he use shipped or sold numbers? Using sold, the number should go up. Are the failure numbers total number sent back or individual units returned? I think the refurbs they send out will most likely break again, thus skewing the rate artificially higher. MS isn't doing themselves any favors with refurbs.

As someone pointed out, even if the number is within industry standard, the perception is that a breakdown is inevitable, and Peter Moore isn't the best at damage control.

Umm I've gone through 4 360's! All I know is out of all the consoles I've owned in my 34 years, I've never come close to 4 untill the 360!
The failure rate of the 360 isn't "within industry standard"

I just don't understand why they don't just fix the problem! How many people have turned away from the 360 because of its bad rep!

 

[Parch]

Things break? Sad attitude.

The 360 and it's games have been alright but they haven't exactly blown me away either, so MS gets my business until the thing dies. I'm not paying to get it fixed. I'll use that money to help pay for a PS3.
Go the distance or get abandoned. Crapped out hardware won't get further support from me. I'll give it to my nephew and he can pay to get it fixed.

 

[psy18]

Haha wow.... what a sad sad answer...

 

[gabe90]

I just feel obligated to chime in and mention that this is the reason I haven't bought a 360 yet. I just refuse to buy hardware that is likely to break. Most of the hardware I have bought has lasted me over 6 years. I can't imagine buying something that might not make it through the first year. For $400, no ****ing way.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Ok so this was made for the elite but still good!

 

[Kolgar]

As they said in Fight Club, "Given a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero." Unfortunately for Microsoft, its consoles seem doomed to quick deaths before they even roll off the assembly line.

360 is the first console I've ever owned that crapped out on me, and I've owned a LOT of consoles since 1977.

I treat them like babies, too. There is no excuse for this machine to give me frozen checkerboard screens and red rings of death after less than 9 months of ownership.

Fix the problem, Microsoft. We're paying a lot of money for these things.

 

[Zombie James]

Ok so this was made for the elite but still good!

:lol

 

[AndyMoogle]

Ok so this was made for the elite but still good!

I kinda dig the red ring with the black.

 

[mollipen]

I kinda dig the red ring with the black.

I was just thinking the same thing. They should have swapped the colors for the Elite, so that red was good, and green was bad.

"What, your Elite has three red lights? That's good bitch! It means the game is kicking so much ass that it doesn't have time to light up all four lights!"

 

[Buffy4ever]

I hope MS fixes any problems the 360 may have, soon. So I don't have to hear people complain at GAF. I guess my two friends and I are the only one to not have any problems with our X-box 360. I will say GAF seems to have more hadware defects with systems then any group I have seen. Alot of people were vocal about the PS1. I heard nothing but complaints about the Dreamcast failing to play games from this forum all the time in the past. My Launch Dreamcast still works fine. Then it was the PS2, my Ps2 has yet to break down. Then after the PS2, we heard about how bad the X-box was, and don't get the thompson HD. My x-box still works fine, and now it is the x-box 360. Some of you people most be rough with your systems, and most move them around alot.
When MS does fix the problem, I am sure people will complain about something else. I Remeber when Sony announced the slower clock speed for PS3, people bitched to high heaven. If MS had done that too people would still be unhappy. I have found the internet is not happy unless they are complaining about something.

 

[Bildi]

I just feel obligated to chime in and mention that this is the reason I haven't bought a 360 yet. I just refuse to buy hardware that is likely to break. Most of the hardware I have bought has lasted me over 6 years. I can't imagine buying something that might not make it through the first year. For $400, no ****ing way.

I must admit, if I didn't already have a

Spoiler

broken

360, I'd probably be in the same boat.

I went a week ago to get another 360 for a family member. The first was DOA with a faulty hard drive. Second was the same. So I took the second one back and got a refund and advised my family member to hold off until things improve. No idea when that will be.

It REALLY sucks because games-wise the 360 is the best out there right now. Wii and PS3 are uber-reliable but just don't have the game selection yet.

This gen sucks (so far).

Some of you people most be rough with your systems, and most move them around alot.

Dude, you can't apply logic like that. I've never had any other system break ever - hell, my NES still works just fine. I look after them very well just like most people. The 360 is a piece of crap - no question.

 

[Ether_Snake]

It sure puts that production-cost comparison chart from yesterday in perspective.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

Dude, you can't apply logic like that. I've never had any other system break ever - hell, my NES still works just fine. I look after them very well just like most people. The 360 is a piece of crap - no question.

My Dreamcast and PS2 are working, and those have a history of being unreliable.

The scariest part is that I will likely buy a PS2 slim before my large launch PS2 will die.

 

[Epigamic]

Please post in the My 360 died... thread, if your console has done so.

NeoGAF may have 20,000+ members LTD, but there's no way that number is remotely accurate to current active membership. How many have been banned or moved on? How many are OT-only posters? How many own a 360, which is the only number that matters? tokkun, why don't you do some of that statistics magic with the NeoGAF dead console numbers?

There's already enough data in this thread to get a rough estimate of the failure rate:

N = number of posters with at least one dead 360
M = number of posters with 2 or more dead 360s

Rough estimate of failure rate: M/N

Calculating M/N and comparing it to 5% is left as an exercise for the reader.

 

[Ryudo]

Wonder what PAL vs NTSC failure rates are ?

 

[PS360]

Is this ok? I hope this is ok.

 

[Bildi]

There's already enough data in this thread to get a rough estimate of the failure rate:

N = number of posters with at least one dead 360
M = number of posters with 2 or more dead 360s

Rough estimate of failure rate: M/N

Calculating M/N and comparing it to 5% is left as an exercise for the reader.

Good idea. Using adamsappel's post from here:

N = 359 individual posters
M = 79

79/359 = 22%

So of everyone who had a console repaired, 22% had the second one die (at least). Someone can check my numbers - I did it pretty quick.

 

[Vyer]

Lol. Uh, Peter...when the new system they just bought breaks - sometimes numerous times - that kinda is related to 'how you are treating them.'

 

[tegdf]

Lol. Uh, Peter...when the new system they just bought breaks - sometimes numerous times - that kinda is related to 'how you are treating them.'

and when they get refurbs back from repair that don't even work or break within a couple weeks

 

[FiRez]

I'm not on the list


died while playing Gears of War

 

[water_wendi]

One time i bought a VCR and it was broken out of the box. A Ninja brand, i think. A shame that it was doa really.. i would have preferred a puff of smoke and a speaker going "Ninja, vanish!" Anyways, the horror stories ive heard about have kept me from getting a 360. Especially because i smoke where i game. i wonder if i can sue the tobacco companies for any system deaths due to smoke inhalation. Looking at a pack right now, i see no warning. Get me a lawyer, stat!

Oh.. wasnt Xbox 360s codename Freon. I find that slightly ironic.

 

[fernoca]

Mine..
#1. January 2006-March 2006
#2. June 2006-September 2006
#3. December 2006-February 2007
#4. March 2007-April 2007

Hmm....

 

[Mrbob]

Mine..
#1. January 2006-March 2006
#2. June 2006-September 2006
#3. December 2006-February 2007
#4. March 2007-April 2007

Hmm....

Do you store your 360 in a sauna?

This is incredibly bad luck.

 

[JCBossman]

One thing I always wonder about, do people with BAD 360's give em a chance, you know check the cables(unplug them then plug them back in) and generally troubleshoot, I bet MS gets alot of 360's back that only have transitory problems.Also for my knowledge is their a time that a faulty 360 tends to "Buy it" like during POST, or during heavy gaming? Any way you look at it, this is TOTALLY unacceptable in a $400 device.

 

[unomas]

#1 Dec. 05-June 06

#2 June 06-Aug. 06

#3 Aug. 06-present

So far so good!

 

[SouthernDragon]

This is why I didn't get a 360. I can't afford to get it fixed.

Which is a shame, because the online aspect of the 360 is -most- tempting.

But this is scary. That often?

 

[yukoner]

This is why I didn't get a 360. I can't afford to get it fixed.

Which is a shame, because the online aspect of the 360 is -most- tempting.

But this is scary. That often?

You can't afford $50 for a 2 year extended warrantee?

 

[DaCocoBrova]

The influx of junior members should inflate the 'Neo Gaf Dead 360 Count' by quite a wide margin...all things remaining constant.

You can't afford $50 for a 2 year extended warrantee?

You can't spell?

 

[Ether_Snake]

This is TOTALLY unacceptable is a $400 device.

DOES NOT COMPUTE

 

[Slavik81]

There is no way it's 40%, that's totally absurd.

Give it 50 years and I'll bet you the failure rate will be in the 90s.

 

[BorkBork]

Well if MS wants to take a laissez faire attitude towards this...they'll reap what they sow.

The 360 is by far the best next gen console out right now...but I'm not going to suggest it to friends until they release a console that is at least as reliable as the PS3 (which in comparison seems like a rock).

The way I see it...Allard's attitude explains why MS has been so slow in correcting this issue. They don't see it as a big issue to begin with.

This may be weird to bring up...but I'll do it anyways. I was watching an episode of Gordon Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares...where Ramsey helps out struggling restaurants. In this one episode he was poking and poking trying to get a response from one owner, who seemed blind to the dire situation he was in. He put it best when he said, "I don't see $100K debt in his eyes". In the same way, MS doesn't seem to see how bad of a situation it is for them.

The Elite is a perfect example of how MS is oblivious to the direness of the situation. With the Elite, they had the perfect opportunity to redesign the console to be reliable. And I'm not talking slightly more reliable, I'm talking about having it just as reliable as the Wii or PS3. From the looks of it, there were minor changes made to address the heating and warping issues.

:lol I just saw that Roccoco episode yesterday. Such an awesome show.

Back to the topic at hand, I knew the failure was bad, I had no idea it was this high. How's the class action lawsuit going?

 

[adamsappel]

Good idea. Using adamsappel's post from here:

N = 359 individual posters
M = 79

79/359 = 22%

So of everyone who had a console repaired, 22% had the second one die (at least). Someone can check my numbers - I did it pretty quick.

That's very interesting. I earlier did the same calculations and got roughly the same error rate.

374 dead consoles, 288 individual posters.

So, 86 of the console failures are refurbed units sent from Microsoft. That's, what, a 23% failure rate? Since previously-broken consoles most likely have a greater tendency to break down again, that percentage is probably at the highest end. Well above the 3%-5% that Microsoft claims, but not the 40% others are speculating.

And going back to the earliest versions of the list, the percentage is around 15%.

 

[KingJ2002]

you know that quote really pissed me off... especially considering that between me and my cousin we went through 7 Xbox 360's (cousin = 4, me = 3), the hassle of calling their customer care centers to get told bullshit, and no change in almost 2 years of being on the market.

so it's officially sold off for a Wii (yea... i found the last one... like it was meant to happen)... with super paper mario and legend of zelda now apart of my new collection.

mr. moore can kiss my ass.

 

[Burger]

you know that quote really pissed me off... especially considering that between me and my cousin we went through 7 Xbox 360's (cousin = 4, me = 3), the hassle of calling their customer care centers to get told bullshit, and no change in almost 2 years of being on the market.

so it's officially sold off for a Wii (yea... i found the last one... like it was meant to happen)... with super paper mario and legend of zelda now apart of my new collection.

mr. moore can kiss my ass.

I agree. What Mr. Moore doesn't realise is that his statement, to some people, is insulting.

Saying "What this consumer should worry about is the way that we've treated him", really means:

"What this consumer should worry about is the way we sold him an Xbox 360 that didn't work, and then after fixing it twice, it's past its warranty and he has to pay, not only that, but each time he rings us he must speak to an Indian that is barely comprehensible who each time tells him to unplug his video cable and check it"

Basically, it's a complete crock of shit.

 

[CrushDance]

I don't get MS and their gaming division. Everything else about them is very good(my view) but they maybe should like have done a gaming leap better, sure it's a success now; but what happens down the line when PS3 starts picking up steam and Wii continues to do well in Japan? They need to get this sorted or else it's going to become another "joke system", we've already got towels...what next?

And Peter should calm down a bit. I'm tired of him always saying things that sound exclusive rather than inclusive case in point:
------------------------------------------------------

"CN: When you look at the ideal Xbox consumer, who is that person?

PM: He is a male. He is connected. He is very, very used to going online for community. He's probably played PC games online. He's part of a Halo 2 clan and has been for two years. That comes from him playing Halo in college--so he's 23 or 24--with his buddies. He still loves to go out on a Wednesday night with them, even though they're spread all around the US. But they all come together Wednesday night to relive the days in the dorm room.

CN: What else does he want?

PM: He also expects instant gratification, the delivery of game demos to his hard drive via his broadband network. And he's popular enough to have his profile online and he's pretty competitive, so he loves (Xbox game) achievements. He'll stay up all night to get achievements in games that his buddies have because it just pisses him off that they've got them first. He also would rather starve to death than not have a high-definition TV. He'll go without food rather than have a standard-def 27-inch TV. "
----------------------------------------------------------------

Sure he's probably saying those with a grin on his face but the point is they need to stop aiming at a specific group and then the next day trying to say that they have something for everyone. It just doesn't work.

I lost my point.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I don't get MS and their gaming division. Everything else about them is very good(my view) but they maybe should like have done a gaming leap better, sure it's a success now; but what happens down the line when PS3 starts picking up steam and Wii continues to do well in Japan? They need to get this sorted or else it's going to become another "joke system", we've already got towels...what next?

And Peter should calm down a bit. I'm tired of him always saying things that sound exclusive rather than inclusive case in point:
------------------------------------------------------

"CN: When you look at the ideal Xbox consumer, who is that person?

PM: He is a male. He is connected. He is very, very used to going online for community. He's probably played PC games online. He's part of a Halo 2 clan and has been for two years. That comes from him playing Halo in college--so he's 23 or 24--with his buddies. He still loves to go out on a Wednesday night with them, even though they're spread all around the US. But they all come together Wednesday night to relive the days in the dorm room.

CN: What else does he want?

PM: He also expects instant gratification, the delivery of game demos to his hard drive via his broadband network. And he's popular enough to have his profile online and he's pretty competitive, so he loves (Xbox game) achievements. He'll stay up all night to get achievements in games that his buddies have because it just pisses him off that they've got them first. He also would rather starve to death than not have a high-definition TV. He'll go without food rather than have a standard-def 27-inch TV. "
----------------------------------------------------------------

Man, you just showed the world with that quote precisely why the 360 is facing certain key issues. If that is the ideal 360 owner according to Moore, then they really are aiming for ultra-hardcore gamers, which for the most part means selling a 360 to every hardcore PC gamer.

That will not expand their userbase.

 

[mollipen]

One thing I always wonder about, do people with BAD 360's give em a chance, you know check the cables(unplug them then plug them back in) and generally troubleshoot

Not sure if you've ever had a bad 360, but when mine died, I did every sort of voodoo move I could trying to get it to work again. I think you should give people more credit. Plus, you know, the machine gives different light codes depending on what is wrong. When you've got the three red lights, you know you're pretty screwed right then and there.

 

[Bearillusion]

Peter Moore at NASA 'sometimes space shuttles go bang'.

 

[CrushDance]

Peter Moore at NASA 'sometimes space shuttles go bang'.

...wow. I'll admit I laughed inside but just no.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Not sure if you've ever had a bad 360, but when mine died, I did every sort of voodoo move I could trying to get it to work again. I think you should give people more credit. Plus, you know, the machine gives different light codes depending on what is wrong. When you've got the three red lights, you know you're pretty screwed right then and there.

In my own circle of friends, there's never been a single dead 360 where it wasn't due to 3RL / mainboard warping / clamp the GPU down you f**kers. And yes, some of those have been fresh out of the box, boot-straight-to-3-red-light units.

I have one, and only one, friend with a launch system that has never ever thrown up a 3RL. We often say that it is the prophesied messiah of Xboxes, that shall one day lead its people to a verdant land of redesigned PCBs.

 

[Karma Kramer]

oh petah

tsk tsk

 

[Bildi]

Peter Moore at NASA 'sometimes space shuttles go bang'.

You're naughty!

 

[FirstInHell]

I wonder where all of the Microsoft community reps have gone?

I hope news outlets keep hammering the living crap out of Microsoft over this. They have to realize that this problem is not going to go away. Every corner of the Internet is rampant with reports of bricked consoles.

How did MS treat me? They treated me like shit. I had to wait two and a half weeks to get my system repaired and I had to pay to ship it to them. The refurbished piece of trash they sent me is giving me disk read errors daily.

Thanks Peter! You guys treated me great!

 

[CrushDance]

I wonder where all of the Microsoft community reps have gone?

I hope news outlets keep hammering the living crap out of Microsoft over this. They have to realize that this problem is not going to go away. Every corner of the Internet is rampant with reports of bricked consoles.

How did MS treat me? They treated me like shit. I had to wait two and a half weeks to get my system repaired and I had to pay to ship it to them. The refurbished piece of trash they sent me is giving me disk read errors daily.

Thanks Peter! You guys treated me great!

:lol Wow. When even some serious xbox fans call MS out then it must be pretty bad. wow.

 

[itsme]

With looming Christmas 07 battle, the last thing MS wants is the label of faulty machine. It doesn't really matter if that's true or not, because the burden of proof, unfortunately for MS, is on MS. As long as MS don't face the reality and start doing something radical to address this issue, their dream of 360's market domination will end up being just a dream. I suspect that there must be a fatal design flaw that can't be fixed forcing all the MS's spokes people jumping around the subject without actually touching on the issue like Peter Moore just did.

 

[itsme]

I don't get MS and their gaming division. Everything else about them is very good(my view) but they maybe should like have done a gaming leap better, sure it's a success now; but what happens down the line when PS3 starts picking up steam and Wii continues to do well in Japan? They need to get this sorted or else it's going to become another "joke system", we've already got towels...what next?

And Peter should calm down a bit. I'm tired of him always saying things that sound exclusive rather than inclusive case in point:
------------------------------------------------------

"CN: When you look at the ideal Xbox consumer, who is that person?

PM: He is a male. He is connected. He is very, very used to going online for community. He's probably played PC games online. He's part of a Halo 2 clan and has been for two years. That comes from him playing Halo in college--so he's 23 or 24--with his buddies. He still loves to go out on a Wednesday night with them, even though they're spread all around the US. But they all come together Wednesday night to relive the days in the dorm room.

CN: What else does he want?

PM: He also expects instant gratification, the delivery of game demos to his hard drive via his broadband network. And he's popular enough to have his profile online and he's pretty competitive, so he loves (Xbox game) achievements. He'll stay up all night to get achievements in games that his buddies have because it just pisses him off that they've got them first. He also would rather starve to death than not have a high-definition TV. He'll go without food rather than have a standard-def 27-inch TV. "
----------------------------------------------------------------

Sure he's probably saying those with a grin on his face but the point is they need to stop aiming at a specific group and then the next day trying to say that they have something for everyone. It just doesn't work.

I lost my point.

Wow, Peter just lost 90% of the market...oh, Peter.