Basically this
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Poor AMD performance with DOOM.
- Thread starter VlaudTheImpaler
- Start date
Basically this
Nostremitus
Member
OP, did you download the new AMD drivers that came out specifically for Doom?
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Yes.
Wowfunhappy
Member
So it's pretty much the opposite of Quantum Break?
Nostremitus
Member
Thanks I didn't see it mentioned in the OP. I have a 290x and have been thinking about getting Doom and saw the hotfix this morning.
I guess I'll wait for the Vulkan update before buying.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
But didn't the beta run on 4.5 on AMD? It ran fine then from what I am hearing. What happened?
Yeah, sorry, I will add that to the OP.
Nostremitus
Member
AMD struggles with OpenGL, which is one of the reasons they handed Mantle over to Chronos group as the starting point for Vulkan.
Once the Vulkan patch is out performance should increase across the board.
i figure id update. 1080p with high preset leaves me hovering around 100fps with drops as low as 75 with motion blur off, CA off, and film grain to 0. ultra preset with the same things turned off is about a ~30fps difference, more than im willing to make to no ultra for me. the stuttering or juddering that i experienced in the beta is gone as well. this game is performing well for me.
Gormenghast
Member
That's really shady. Not only AMD is very bad, but you can see that a 960 almost is on par with a 780 Ti. That's just plain ridiculous.
A 970 that at release was around 25% faster than a 770, in this game is more than 100% faster. This is deliberate performance loss.
It's what it would look if Nvidia paid them for maximum profits.
Now... I expect Vulkan to come out and work specifically only for the 10xx videocards, while running even worse on everything else.
I hope this is not the way PC gaming is heading toward.
A 970 that at release was around 25% faster than a 770, in this game is more than 100% faster. This is deliberate performance loss.
It's what it would look if Nvidia paid them for maximum profits.
Now... I expect Vulkan to come out and work specifically only for the 10xx videocards, while running even worse on everything else.
I hope this is not the way PC gaming is heading toward.
Chiggs
Member
Yep, it's the engine.
I'm a 390x owner and managed to really improve my performance by updating my mobo bios and installing the newest drivers.
Game runs nearly flawlessly now, but I think there's some improvement here for AMD to shore up.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Why are you basing what PC gaming is moving toward on a graphics API that almost no one uses anymore?
I reckon the drivers had most effect rather than BIOS update but...
Wonder if i should update my BIOS just in case...
Game runs bad, always Nvidia's fault. It couldn't be that AMD's OpenGL support (that this game happens to use) has been shoddy...
Gormenghast
Member
I'm pointing out that Nvidia is deliberately avoiding optimization for everything beside the latest models.
Yes, it's Nvidia who wants to maximize sales and so stops optimizing just so customers continue to buy new hardware on even shorter cycles.
The performance of 7xx Nvidia cards is right on par with AMD of the same level, and it's quite evident what is going on.
Go look at the beta benchmarks and you'll notice that only the 9xx made a leap forward, every other card showed no improvement at all. This is optimization, deliberately enabled only on the models they want to advertize and kept disabled on older models.
Then why does the game run fine on the AMD hardware in consoles?
The driver was put out as fast as possible to meet the game launch. Have you considered the possibility that they didn't have time to add kepler specific optimizations(which it is highly dependent on) for the game yet?
AMD seems to be having problems specifically with the hawaii series of cards. Maybe it's a similar issue.
Gormenghast
Member
Drivers take months to write and test.
The driver you install today is a driver that has been worked on for several months.
And no, Nvidia would rather move their engineers on 10xx cards than Kepler.
The thing is, if Doom was released in September or later, instead of May, then you could bet that it would have run very poorly on a 970, because they had the new 1070 to SELL.
MrCunningham
Member
It's not really their hardware that is at fault. It's AMD's implementation of OpenGL in their Windows drivers. Pretty sure that the PS4 doesn't use OpenGL for the majority of the games on the platform including Doom, even though the hardware can support the API.
I know. And the PS4 doesn't support opengl at all.
MrCunningham
Member
Hmm... I would have thought that the GPU in the PS4 would still be capable of running OpenGL since it is based around a 7970.
that happened already. but they called it an open beta.
Unknown Soldier
Member
The PS4 has two graphics libraries, called GNM and GNMX. GNM is a low-level API not unlike Vulkan or DX12, GNMX is a wrapper for GNM which is a higher-level API that closely resembles DX11.
There is no need for OpenGL on PS4 because Sony already has both low-level and high-level API access covered.
MrCunningham
Member
Ah OK. Yeah, then it makes sense why Doom would get better performance on the PS4 over an AMD card (relatively speaking). The PS4 port of Doom isn't using OpenGL in anyway.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
At this point it's looking like this is my only hope. I am super bummed here. It feels terrible not being able to enjoy this game along with everyone else at launch. Besides the problems I had what I played makes it seem like it could be really amazing. I almost wish I hadn't played it at all because it's going to make waiting for a fix even harder and it's going to be even worse if there never is one... ლ(ಠ益ಠლ
I just can't stand the fact that in the marketplace there is no mention of the fact that this game performs sub par with a lot of AMD hardware. I can't imagine that they didn't do any testing either so they had to have known. Especially if it really is because of OpenGL like many have said. I think it is very disingenuous of them to do so knowingly without warning people. I mean one of the cards exhibiting these problems is the R9 290 (which my 390 should be outperforming) and they have it listed as recommended specs along with the gtx 970 which by the benchmarks so far outperforms it greatly and that's even without taking all of the jank that we are experiencing into account.
Unknown Soldier
Member
This is a fun read, maybe. I dunno. I don't know anything about what this guy is talking about but he talks about it in a fun way.
http://richg42.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/the-truth-on-opengl-driver-quality.html
If you can't figure out who Vendor A, B, and C are then I'm not sure what I can tell you.
Neither is the Bone version of DOOM, it's funny to realize that since the Bone only uses DirectX, there actually exists a Direct3D renderer for DOOM. It's in the Bone version of the game! Too bad they won't make that available for PC to help the AMD users but maybe the Vulkan renderer will solve all the issues anyways when it's released.
http://richg42.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/the-truth-on-opengl-driver-quality.html
If you can't figure out who Vendor A, B, and C are then I'm not sure what I can tell you.
Neither is the Bone version of DOOM, it's funny to realize that since the Bone only uses DirectX, there actually exists a Direct3D renderer for DOOM. It's in the Bone version of the game! Too bad they won't make that available for PC to help the AMD users but maybe the Vulkan renderer will solve all the issues anyways when it's released.
Based on some of the mailing lists I follow I can say that the characterization of Vendor A's devs is pretty accurate. I've also heard independent corroboration of what he says about Vendor B. Vendor C#1 pretty much accurate too.
So, yeah. I'd say he knows what he is talking about.
Unknown Soldier
Member
This is a fun read too.
https://dolphin-emu.org/blog/2013/09/26/dolphin-emulator-and-opengl-drivers-hall-fameshame/
I still find it interesting that the first demonstration of a game using Vulkan (DOOM) was shown on an Nvidia GPU (1080) and not an AMD one, despite the various claims that Vulkan is thinly disguised Mantle or something like that. Apparently Nvidia are better at developing drivers for AMD's API than AMD are.
https://dolphin-emu.org/blog/2013/09/26/dolphin-emulator-and-opengl-drivers-hall-fameshame/
I still find it interesting that the first demonstration of a game using Vulkan (DOOM) was shown on an Nvidia GPU (1080) and not an AMD one, despite the various claims that Vulkan is thinly disguised Mantle or something like that. Apparently Nvidia are better at developing drivers for AMD's API than AMD are.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
I turned my post into a steam review, maybe nothing will come of it but I had to try lol.
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198086968452/recommended/379720
I don't know where else to go or what else to do.
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198086968452/recommended/379720
I don't know where else to go or what else to do.
Or perhaps it could be that id have a good relationship with Nvidia? You needn't post your bullshit speculation here.
garbagejuicer
Neo Member
No problems here with 290/FX9590. Used default settings, holds to 1080p60 with the exemption of MP. Looks great.
Had friends over for poker and everyone commented on how awesome the game looked. Had to turn AA down a notch on MP to remove framerate drops. Latest beta drivers.
Had friends over for poker and everyone commented on how awesome the game looked. Had to turn AA down a notch on MP to remove framerate drops. Latest beta drivers.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Well now that is great to hear. Hopefully it doesn't take long! I can't wait to play.
Beautiful Ninja
Member
AMD's basically never been able to write proper OpenGL drivers. Their Linux performance is terrible because of this, R9 290's benchmark about as fast as 660 Ti's in some games because of how terrible AMD's OpenGL drivers are, especially when it comes to CPU utilization. Normally not as much an issue on Windows since practically everything uses DirectX, but iD loves them some OGL.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Pardon my ignorance but if this is true, and it's looking that way, then wouldn't the answer be to have marketplaces or publishers advertise or alert the consumers that this is the case? The consumers should know this before they buy and it is extremely disingenuous to advertise the recommended or even minimum specs as an AMD card in this instance.
If this happened it would be better for the consumer and it would also force AMD to spend more resources on optimizing their drivers. This sounds harsh but come on it appears that this problem has been going on for ages and something needs to be done about it otherwise it's just going to continue. Crap like this left unchecked sours either one or two things for AMD owners, the AMD brand and/or the devs who use OpenGL. Which causes people to switch camps. It would be great if storefronts and devs would take a stand for the consumer.
I've seen similar things pulled by Nvidia (where I daresay problems like this would be worse) as well before ya'll start calling me a fanboy.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Can you please tell me what you are trying to show me?
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
I'm going to guess that AMD does pretty well in those benchmarks
He is suggesting AMD does not traditionally struggle on Id Tech (even though it is OpenGL), so we're hopefully one driver update + one game patch away.
They do indeed. Then again my problems for example with The Old Blood wasn't performance per se, it was more that I couldn't for the life of me get rid of either mad microstutter or bad tearing. Hmm.
Beautiful Ninja
Member
If I remember right, AMD cards were plagued with rendering issues with the Wolfenstein games, compared to Nvidia. You can look through the Steam user reviews and see complaints about issues that apparently never got fixed. Both New Order and Old Blood suffered from these issues IIRC.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
See now those are the problems that I am having. I don't care what benchmarks show any GPU running at insane framerates if there is microstuttering or tearing. Do benchmarks show that stuff?
Have you tried the VSynch/Tripple Buffering options in the Crimson Settings/Driver program by the way?
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Yes and the game just ignores it. I've seen this happen to others as well.