Just to make sure: Have you also tried to lower ALL possible settings to the lowest possible option to see if anything changes? I think in the first Wolfenstein it had issues when I set the texturing cash to high which resulted in stuttering even if I had good framerates otherwise.
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Poor AMD performance with DOOM.
- Thread starter VlaudTheImpaler
- Start date
Just to make sure: Have you also tried to lower ALL possible settings to the lowest possible option to see if anything changes? I think in the first Wolfenstein it had issues when I set the texturing cash to high which resulted in stuttering even if I had good framerates otherwise.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Yes. But even if that did fix it that would be completely unacceptable. lol
Well you wouldn't play it like that but you could then at least narrow it down to the one setting that causes the issue by turning up all the settings step by step again to see which one causes the problem. That's just the motions you go through in an unfortunate case like this.
But it seems we're shit outta luck here, bad thing is I think this never got fixed in The old blood because I played that game way after release.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Did AMD also say that they where working on fixing it then?
If I'm seeing this correctly the current hot fix driver is already made for Doom. So I wouldn't count on anything on top of that.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
I did not. Here's to hoping then.
I actually wish more AMD owners would chime in here so we could have some impressions with different cards. Could still be a weird 390 specific problem. This is the one thing that bugs me about AMDs current market share, it can be hard to find a somewhat representative amount of impressions.
There are people above (with a 290 and 380x) that say it runs fine. What fine means I don't know
Yes because a guy has issues people should REALLY play on the hardware that produces worse results 99,9% of the time instead. Because reasons.
You gave Doom a negative review because AMD's drivers are shit?
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Yes, because the devs had to have known about this and they have an AMD card that is having these problems as the recommended specs. No where was I warned that the game would have issues on AMD cards quite the opposite since it recommended them... Also, I bought a game and can't play properly on hardware that is above recommended specs. Since it's not just me having this problem then why not make this issue known in any way that is visible? Like I said, AMD users are few and far between so we get drowned out.
I mean don't most gaming reviews on all the popular sites also rate performance as part of their score?
I also pointed out the nature of the review in the review itself. When the issues are fixed I will change my review.
Well no, devs often optimize game for a single driver set and then GPU manufacturer releases something new around game launch. This has happened many times.
MrCunningham
Member
Not so subtle call out to each hardware vendor.
Nvidia, AMD, Intel... and MESA being the forth?
Yeah that is interesting that the Bone version is using a variant on DX12.
AMD has never ever had good general OpenGL performance. Your best hope is Vulkan.
It's not elitist to tell you the reasons why performance is the way you experience it here. It's simply information.
That's silly. Id software is an OpenGL shop (and god bless them for that, open APIs need all the support they can get!), and AMD's OpenGL driver isn't particularly good.
Could you then explain how the beta AMD performance was better?
Locuza
Member
God bless them for what exactly?
For keeping OpenGL (and by extension, the only truly open 3D graphics API until the introduction of Vulkan) alive almost single-handedly in the high-end gaming space for many years.
No, I don't have graphics debugger performance traces of the same sequence of the game on an AMD card at the same settings on the same driver in the beta and the final version.
Dictator93
Member
Ultra settings do not sit as well on AMD as medium do.
Also it is a heavily threaded game, especially in SP. And AMDs driving threading... is... lackluster?
I'm guessing maybe keeping the OpenGL seat warm until Vulkan arrives so Microsoft with its sole viable API DX can't potentially slippery slope devs into a Windows closed garden.
It could very simply be that the beta lacked a feature or rendering method that is present in the retail build. There is no way for a customer to say with certainty. What's the alternative, some kind of conspiracy?
AMD may be able to help things with a driver update, or they may not bother if they've been told the Vulkan renderer is very near to release and they know their Vulkan performance is great.
Locuza
Member
Not sure if the industry and in the end users did profit from it, I would claim quite the opposite from the users side.
Could it be that the game relies on some Maxwell exclusive feature like conservative rasterization?
Using platform agnostic APIs would be better for everybody except for Microsoft.
That's an excessively short-sighted and egotistical perspective.
Without OpenGL as a viable gaming graphics platform, there would have been no game releases on Linux and Mac, MS would have an even stronger stranglehold on PC gaming, and many emulators would either need multiple backends or never have reached this stage of development. Even Vulkan might not have existed in its current form because there would have been no established and smoothly operating organization and mechanism for its development and standardization.
You'd give that all up, for what? Because your preferred GPU vendor never saw fit to invest much into OpenGL driver development?
Eh I'm pretty sure Locuza is not in the AMD fan club.
Then it makes even less sense.
Locuza
Member
Only if the platform agnostic API brings good results to the enduser.
Now we are jumping from id softwares contribution to OGL in general?
At this point I can't see any meaningful difference.
I would give up the use of OGL if the experience for Windows user (which is simply the overwhelming majority) would have been better and not a single id Tech 5 game was on Linux and only RAGE was on Mac.
And it wasn't only AMD who decided not to invest in a good OpenGL driver, a lot of parties didn't made great job in documentation, tools and renewing the API-Design.
The widespread problems of OGL are known and I'm more than happy that Vulkan is a real contender for bringing a platform agnostic API where endusers have little to nothing to lose.
OpenGL was never in the position.
No, that was my point from the very first post you quoted. The fact of the matter is that id software is the only high-end gaming studio which enforced some level of OpenGL performance and support. With that not existing, how rosy exactly would you expect the driver situation to be -- given what it is for some vendors even under this constraint? Of course that would have an impact on OpenGL in general!
General Lee
Member
It's simply a matter of some devs using Nvidia hardware to make their game and not giving a shit about supporting Radeons. It's been shown that Radeons can perform just as well, but if no effort is put on it and devs just run the game on their Nvidia sponsored GPUs, well this is the result. I'm afraid it's AMD's lot in life to make sure it doesn't happen. It's a ditch they've dug themselves in.
Devs should not put special effort on AMD hardware. AMD should put special effort on their drivers, because that is where all their problems come from.
General Lee
Member
It's not about "special" effort, it's about putting any effort into it. Usually devs are responsible for the performance of their games. AMD can't fix everything with drivers. Some devs don't see it worth the effort to support whatever they aren't using. That's just a matter of their priorities more than anything else.
That is not true, it ran normally on my 9700 Pro.
NeoRaider
Member
False.
Rage
Wolfenstein
Doom
All idTech games. All have/had problems on AMD. ESPECIALLY Rage, and apparently Doom. I remember having to disable a cpu core to get Rage to run without major graphical bugs, for reasons. So it's not as bad now...
HOWEVER, I had no issues at all with The Evil Within, so it's not just "lol AMD and OpenGL sux ballz, id isn't to blame at all." Nah man, fuck that. id didn't give a shit with Rage, and they don't give a shit now.
Wolfenstein
Doom
All idTech games. All have/had problems on AMD. ESPECIALLY Rage, and apparently Doom. I remember having to disable a cpu core to get Rage to run without major graphical bugs, for reasons. So it's not as bad now...
HOWEVER, I had no issues at all with The Evil Within, so it's not just "lol AMD and OpenGL sux ballz, id isn't to blame at all." Nah man, fuck that. id didn't give a shit with Rage, and they don't give a shit now.
I think I waited till Carmack released the patch (or 2nd patch?). After that it ran okay on the 4890.All idTech games. All have/had problems on AMD. ESPECIALLY Rage, and apparently Doom. I remember having to disable a cpu core to get Rage to run without major graphical bugs, for reasons. So it's not as bad now...
I just played through the game at like 30fps (because it was running on only one core). A helpful patch for my case didn't come until after I had already beaten it.
dr_rus
Member
Sure, you use NV h/w on console dev units, for both Xbox One and PS4.
lyrick
Member
When Carmack was there he was very open about the shops leanings toward Nvidia. It's possible that was because of their OpenGL support, but the dev house openly leaned Nvidia even when AMD held the performance crown.
Carmack said Nvidia has very strong developer support. They responded to his queries super fast, released timely fixes he requested, and sometimes flew their own engineers over.
General Lee
Member
PC port is a separate thing despite the use of AMD hardware. Funnily enough when the game was in beta and used console-like settings, everything was running fine.
lyrick
Member
They can have all the reasons in the world as to why they prefer one vendor over the other, it doesn't change the fact that their preference seems to really show downstream especially when end customers have to deal with their preference.
Well, in this case Id should be able to help fix the problem by allowing users to disable something that causes the issue, even at the cost of visual quality.
Otherwise, it is quite a bad practice to basicalyl ignore 20-30-35% of the market just because.
abracadaver
Member
"@D0ofy87 looks like ultra settings ( beta was a mix of medium ), particularly shadows ( and couple other things ) - AMD working on it"
Same here, ran fine on my old 9600 Pro too.