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"PS4 is like a 5 years old PC and it’s really holding developers back"

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stupei

Member
The quote also seems to be directly in response to the developer receiving criticism about the look of their game. He is saying that he feels limited by the hardware. While Naughty Dog and Guerrilla have the time, as console exclusive developers, to unlock the full potential of one platform, a small indie developer working on multiple platforms is going to have a less nuanced understanding of how to maximize the hardware and might find the age much more challenging.

Though the thread certainly tries to make it seem otherwise, the developer wasn't deliberately attacking consoles as a platform. They were (somewhat defensively) responding to a criticism.
 
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The Cartographer

Member
This ''old hardware is holding us back from making innovative games!'' shit that pops up every X years is just too funny, especially with the whole video game industry becoming more and more conservative every year.
 
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MrHoot

Member
Meanwhile one of the most popular consoles just released on the market is also one of the least powerful of the three. Doesn't seem to stop it getting good games or having one of the most significant open world game with emergent gameplay since forever
 
R

Ryuuga

Banned
Yup been like this for a while now.

04c6021e03e628680f048973185383a3.gif
 
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mclem

Member
Sho_Nuff82 said:
You can't, as a developer, make Pro or XOX exclusive games, or games that are built to push those consoles to the limits, because they won't run properly on PS4 or XOne.
Click to expand...

Have Sony or Microsoft ever clarified if they'd let a game simply run badly on the older hardware? A Just Cause or PS3 Skyrim sort of situation?
 
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mrklaw

MrArseFace
isn't that stating the obvious?

The other side of that coin is - there are nearly 100m consoles out there (PS4+XB1 plus a bit of rounding). While you are somewhat limited in scope due to lack of power, you have a much larger addressable market than you otherwise would.
 
E

Evil Monkey DTT

Banned
Decent statement but terrible writing in the article. But this statement is also the big cue the next console generation is on its way.... which I don't think we really need honestly. The diminishing returns have really hit me this console generation. I'd rather play a switch then a ps5.
 
D

Danneee

Member
I remember a time when developers (other than first party) actually tried to get as much as possible out of consoles.
But I guess that it's good that anyone can make a game with Unity or Unreal engine now.
 
C

Crimsonsky

Member
It has to be. I have a three thousand dollar computer but you can't ask non enthusiast players to submit to paying that much or even half that. Consoles are powerful enough for less than 400 bucks. Also these devs can just stop making excuses, the install base is massive and most of the time all devs do is lower the resolution till it works. It's incredibly lazy and you aren't taking advantage of the hardware at that point. You get out what you put in.
 
A

AngelOFDeath

Member
giphy.gif


Sadly this is just 1 line in the entire article, but its captain obvious moment. He could have made his game for the PC of just today, but would not get EA to publish more than likely. So he should have, idk, maybe take what he can get. I am sure there are plenty of other people that would rather be in his shoes.
 
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ScottSullivan

Member
He's probably right but it doesn't really matter, we are getting some of the most diverse, artistic, great looking games we've ever seen right now

As the sage Vinny Caravella once said, "There's never been a better time to be playing video games"
 
Alucardx23

Alucardx23

Member
I have problems with that type of comment. I mean sure, 5 years ago you could pay a lot of money to built yourself a PC with better performance than a PS4 Pro, but that has always been the case. The key question is how much do you pay for the performance. Most PC developers don't make their games for the top 1% of PC gamers that have top of the line GPUs/MultiGPU configurations. Today you will see that most of the PC games are built for GTX 970 level GPUs. That's 3 year old hardware right there. So I don't get the "holding developers back". If you want to develop a game that only runs on GTX 1080 and above GPUs, go ahead, but let's see if you can make your money back.
 
K

KORNdoggy

Member
stupei said:
The quote also seems to be directly in response to the developer receiving criticism about the look of their game. He is saying that he feels limited by the hardware. While Naughty Dog and Guerrilla have the time, as console exclusive developers, to unlock the full potential of one platform, a small indie developer working on multiple platforms is going to have a less nuanced understanding of how to maximize the hardware and might find the age much more challenging.

Though the thread certainly tries to make it seem otherwise, the developer wasn't deliberately attacking consoles as a platform. They were (somewhat defensively) responding to a criticism.
Click to expand...

which still makes no sense. as indie developers its their ability, team size, budget. that will be holding them back far more than consoles are given the fact more powerful hardware wouldn't suddenly make those obstacles disappear. they'd still be an indie developer producing visuals on that level.
 
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Sho_Nuff82

Member
mclem said:
Have Sony or Microsoft ever clarified if they'd let a game simply run badly on the older hardware? A Just Cause or PS3 Skyrim sort of situation?
Click to expand...

They arguably already have, depending on your tolerance for framerates in the low 20s.

It's really not a smart business move, if 80% of new console buyers every month (and >90% overall) choose the weaker hardware.
 
N

Nabbis

Member
The Cartographer said:
This ''old hardware is holding us back from making innovative games!'' shit that pops up every X years is just too funny, especially with the whole video game industry becoming more and more conservative every year.
Click to expand...

Yeah, i would be more inclined to agree if graphics were not the only things that changed since ps3. Just look at the gameplay changes brought between 1-2 and 2-3.
 
kruis

kruis

Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
What actually is holding graphics back is the jump from 1080p to 4K. All that additional GPU power is only used to push higher resolution graphics, not better visuals. I've got a top of the bill PC (Core i7 6900K, 32 GB RAM, GTX1080 with three SSD drives) and I'm glad if I can run the latest games in 4K with 60fps at the highest settings. Doesn't work all the time (Witcher 3, Rime, Nier 2). We need even more power before running games in 4K is taken for granted and visual quality can be pushed in other domains.
 
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mrklaw

MrArseFace
stupei said:
The quote also seems to be directly in response to the developer receiving criticism about the look of their game. He is saying that he feels limited by the hardware. While Naughty Dog and Guerrilla have the time, as console exclusive developers, to unlock the full potential of one platform, a small indie developer working on multiple platforms is going to have a less nuanced understanding of how to maximize the hardware and might find the age much more challenging.

Though the thread certainly tries to make it seem otherwise, the developer wasn't deliberately attacking consoles as a platform. They were (somewhat defensively) responding to a criticism.
Click to expand...

so would a better statement be something like "As a smaller developer, I need access to disproportionately more powerful hardware in order for me to realise my ambitions with the limited time and access to advance tools compared to big first party developers. So I'd really like a high end PC equivalent console"?

Although that argument still falls down because if you gave them that much power, the dedicated first party teams would then be moved forward by that spec so they'd still be left behind and asking for more.
 
S

sems4arsenal

Member
Do customers even want next generation consoles yet?

Seeing games like Horizon, Zelda, FH3, GTSport, etc isn't making me say things like "oh man I wish these games looked better".
 
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shadowsdarknes

Member
The PS4 Pro is a product of consumer demand.

The PS4 Pro is essentially the best piece of hardware you're going to get for 400 dollars in 2016.

Consumers largely aren't going to pay more than that. Consoles have to maintain a mass market price to be feasible.

The Ps4 Pro would need to have been significantly more expensive for it to not "hold developers back". The console market wasn't going to bite on that piece of hardware. However, with a price cut this holiday, expect the PS4 pro to sell quite well.
 
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captianpants

Neo Member
this is probably true , but at that same time if the ps4 was as or more powerful than a high end gaming rig the cost would be astronomical and the market would die. I think people forget that Gaming is a business and you have to at least try to make money
 
sublimit

sublimit

Banned
Ok so basically devs should only develop for high end PCs because everything else will be holding them back more or less.

Man the writer of that article is really smart!
200.gif
 
T

Tracygill

Member
Steel said:
Why in the hell would you pick a threadripper for gaming? It's not gonna be any better than any of the Ryzens at it and it will likely be worse. And that gif implies that the Jaguar was a good CPU in 2014.
Click to expand...
You are right when it comes to single player games but A Way Out is a 2 player coop game. Many modern games that used to have split screen multiplayer no longer does. A 32 thread CPU like Threadripper should theoretically handle 2 or 4 player split screen better than a 6 or 8 core Ryzen CPU. More cores would also allow for better and more advanced AI and more NPCs.
 
Ardenyal

Ardenyal

Member
Let me know when the "next gen gameplay" is released for this gen. That shit was drummed to high heaven early gen.
 
K

KageMaru

Member
I think people are going to read too much into this. What he's saying isn't really anything new with game development on consoles.

Personally I think the game looks great.

stupei said:
The quote also seems to be directly in response to the developer receiving criticism about the look of their game. He is saying that he feels limited by the hardware. While Naughty Dog and Guerrilla have the time, as console exclusive developers, to unlock the full potential of one platform, a small indie developer working on multiple platforms is going to have a less nuanced understanding of how to maximize the hardware and might find the age much more challenging.

Though the thread certainly tries to make it seem otherwise, the developer wasn't deliberately attacking consoles as a platform. They were (somewhat defensively) responding to a criticism.
Click to expand...

Well put, this is exactly what I think is going on.

mejin said:
hum, bad optimised game coming? not day one anymore.
Click to expand...

How do you get bad optimization over his comment?
 
A

Alo0oy

Banned
I'd prefer for consoles to stay as the cheaper more accessible option, it's easier for hardcore gamers and/or rich people to handwaive that. But most of my extended family wouldn't be gaming if those companies listened to privileged people only.
 
blu

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Console generations: the thread
 
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Marmaladefire

Member
Then fund a high end PC game and try to sell it. I get it, but look//: I like consoles, and I'm not buying a $800 that'll be obsolete again in 2 years, and I'm also not going to get a super high end PC for gaming, because I don't like PC gaming all that much. A lot of people feel like that. Gaming is an expensive hobby and no one is going to make money or play new games if the market moves this way. Which is why it never does.
 
S

stupei

Member
mrklaw said:
so would a better statement be something like "As a smaller developer, I need access to disproportionately more powerful hardware in order for me to realise my ambitions with the limited time and access to advance tools compared to big first party developers. So I'd really like a high end PC equivalent console"?

Although that argument still falls down because if you gave them that much power, the dedicated first party teams would then be moved forward by that spec so they'd still be left behind and asking for more.
Click to expand...

I'm not wholeheartedly agreeing with what the man said, to be clear, but rather disagreeing with the idea that it is some incendiary statement condemning the current generation of hardware or the concept of console gaming as a whole. It honestly sounds like it was an off-hand remark in the middle of a much larger article that is being interpreted as having far greater significance than ever the person who said it intended.

The article is vague enough about what the flaws were, but I read it as them most likely not being at a locked framerate or similar very common issues with modern games. We all know why this happens. Developers get too ambitious and aspire for visuals that they cannot make run smoothly on the hardware available. Rather than blame their own ambitions, they generally blame the hardware. It's not particularly new or startling.
 
T

TB12

Banned
How about dev do a better job and learn the hardware.

Horizon, god of war, uncharted 4, forza horizon 3, gear of wars 4 look awesome on base ps4 and base xbox one.
 
T

TyMiles2012

Member
Quonny said:
Ugh, why won't these companies sell a $799 console.
Click to expand...

Because people won't buy them. Even adjusted for inflation, the only time consoles cost that much in our money were the consoles before the crash. NES onward were always in the $400-$500 range as it is today, except for a few outliers such as the Neo-Geo, 3DO, Saturn and PS3. I'd rather have developers learn everything about a system to take advantage of the hardware. Look at the exclusives. They look very good on base hardware.

If you want to spend that much money, build a PC.
 
J

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
hanspampel said:
this topic won't turn our well
Click to expand...

Not really. Because if thats the case:

leeh said:
PS4 Pro? What the bloody hell is the OG X1 like then, is it like a PC as old as the 360?
Click to expand...

Regardless, I am about to replace a stolen PS4 with the PS4 Slim. The PS4 and XBO are more powerful than my current PC.

And...the PS4 did come out in 2013 so.... I dont see anything wrong about that.
 
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