Mass_Pincup
Banned
Well no shit, it came out 4 years ago.
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"PS4 is like a 5 years old PC and its really holding developers back"
- Thread starter Vipu
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even though the argument is dumb, most people in this thread seem to making all the wrong rebuttals and asking the wrong questions anyway imo --maybe because the majority of you actually still care about 'bleeding edge horsepower' in your home consoles.
if this is the case, my question to you is when did you start home console' gaming?
the correct answer is "who cares".
seriously. a home consoles' task is to be powerful enough to sustain game development for as long as they can, until saturation sets in & the market demands a follow up. they were never meant to 'compete' with the PC.
This concept only seems to confuse many of you too and this is because in the ps2/gcn/xbox generation, many primarily PC developers started migrating to home consoles and began their process of proliferation amongst home console gamers -thus 'mixing' the expectation of a home console with that of a PC.
I'm confident game developers & publishers who were 'born' on home console development don't give a fuck that the ps4 is not as powerful as current PC. would they like it if they were? sure why not, but it's not necessary, and it's not the point of a home console. the ps4 or the xb1 is not holding developers back. developers aren't forced to make games on it if they have any real 'moral' objection to it, and they should focus more on being creative with what they have as opposed to complaining about what they don't have.
if you don't like it, maybe you should primarily develop/game on PC's instead and try to philosophise on why the PC market today is a shadow of what it was during its height in the 90's, and what you did to curb this trend if anything at all.
if this is the case, my question to you is when did you start home console' gaming?
the correct answer is "who cares".
seriously. a home consoles' task is to be powerful enough to sustain game development for as long as they can, until saturation sets in & the market demands a follow up. they were never meant to 'compete' with the PC.
This concept only seems to confuse many of you too and this is because in the ps2/gcn/xbox generation, many primarily PC developers started migrating to home consoles and began their process of proliferation amongst home console gamers -thus 'mixing' the expectation of a home console with that of a PC.
I'm confident game developers & publishers who were 'born' on home console development don't give a fuck that the ps4 is not as powerful as current PC. would they like it if they were? sure why not, but it's not necessary, and it's not the point of a home console. the ps4 or the xb1 is not holding developers back. developers aren't forced to make games on it if they have any real 'moral' objection to it, and they should focus more on being creative with what they have as opposed to complaining about what they don't have.
if you don't like it, maybe you should primarily develop/game on PC's instead and try to philosophise on why the PC market today is a shadow of what it was during its height in the 90's, and what you did to curb this trend if anything at all.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
When has this ever NOT been the case for consoles and PC?
inpHilltr8r
Member
whats holding developers back, is having to eat
same as whats holding back the writers of these articles
if we could solve that
things would be very different
same as whats holding back the writers of these articles
if we could solve that
things would be very different
The Hermit
Member
What the fuck? It's terrible, and my English is far from good
TimeEffect
Member
I know consoles are the Lowest common denominator but without them, would games really be much more advanced? I mean, lots of people have old PCs out there right?
amdb00mer
Member
I think more developers will take a PC approach with preset settings. I have mentioned this before in other threads.
X1X = High to Ultra settings (with higher resolutions)
PS4 Pro = Med to High settings (with higher resolutions)
PS4 = Low to Med (with dynamic resolutions and some 1080p games)
X1S/X1 = Low to Med (with low resolutions and dynamic resolutions)
I know these may not be spot on, but you get the idea. The systems are basically x86 PCs in a console form factor.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
Nm
I'd also argue that in some way consoles are holding back developers costs from being astronomical. Imagine endless graphic settings that everyone would have to compete for every year, consoles in a way are giving smaller devs time to catch up and compete, usually why a lot of great indie's always appear near the end of a consoles life. Just a thought.
Someone must look after the children.
pixelpatr0n
Banned
The reality is that there is only a select few developers truly pushing today's hardware, and I'd argue those developers have not truly tapped our current hardware to its limits. The current state of the industry is that only a handful of B tier developers and publishers survived the transition from PS360 development. Development costs have more than doubled and save from a lucky few developer or first party developers funded by the mothership, it's a little far fetched to daydream about more powerful hardware when only 30% of developers can honestly push the current hardware to its limits.
Seriously, this seems like a silly point.
I mean, no shit a console which released at a 399.99 price point almost 4 years ago isn't as powerful is an modern gaming PC.
Astral Dog
Member
Its mostly the CPU, has like 6 🐆🐆🐆🐆🐆🐆
They promised GPGPU would make up for it but it was all a big joke
They promised GPGPU would make up for it but it was all a big joke
InsaneTiger
Member
Hey developer, PS4 was released in 2013, specs probably set late 2012 or early 2013. So PS4, tech wise is 3.5-4 years old. So yeah, it's close to 5 years old. And?
This was sort of what I was getting at. A lot of developers can barely even afford to create games for this gen.
there hasn't been a single generation where this has not been the case.
compare SNES/GEN to computers then, compare PS1/N64 to computers in the mid late 90's etc etc.
when will devs understand that most people dont want to buy separate parts to create an awesome $800+ PC and that we don't want to pay anywhere that price for hardware to play videogames??
here a tip devs, how about you target PS4/X1 for your games from the get go instead of creating your mega cuttin-edge game and then have to dumb it down because it won't run on consoles?
compare SNES/GEN to computers then, compare PS1/N64 to computers in the mid late 90's etc etc.
when will devs understand that most people dont want to buy separate parts to create an awesome $800+ PC and that we don't want to pay anywhere that price for hardware to play videogames??
here a tip devs, how about you target PS4/X1 for your games from the get go instead of creating your mega cuttin-edge game and then have to dumb it down because it won't run on consoles?
Ein Bear
Member
Consoles do not hold PCs back, they do the exact opposite.
'PC Gaming' does not solely mean the beefy rigs that most people on enthusiast forums use. What consoles do is establish a baseline specification for games to be built at, which can be comfortably run on mid-tier PCs and then scaled up and down accordingly. Everyone benefits, regardless of the hardware you choose to play your games in.
If games were built solely for high end PCs, then a very small amount of people would be able to play them.
'PC Gaming' does not solely mean the beefy rigs that most people on enthusiast forums use. What consoles do is establish a baseline specification for games to be built at, which can be comfortably run on mid-tier PCs and then scaled up and down accordingly. Everyone benefits, regardless of the hardware you choose to play your games in.
If games were built solely for high end PCs, then a very small amount of people would be able to play them.
Accurate lol.
God damn these toaster CPUs.
Neuromancer
Member
Oh wow. I wonder how much money this guy makes.
Hidden One
Member
But isnt the Ps4 like 5 years old at this point tech wise lol...
Darkstorne
Member
Also, water is wet.
This is nothing new. Consoles have always worked this way, and this has always been a limitation. Consumers don't WANT to buy new consoles every two or three years. It's not a bad thing though, since these limitations have led to some incredibly innovative optimization tricks and advancements that never would have emerged if devs could simply rely on hardware constantly improving. It also allows engines targeting specific hardware to be much more cost effective when they can produce multiple games over the course of 6+ years rather than requiring complete engine overhauls for every single game to keep up with ever-improving hardware. More to the point, PS4 Pro and Xbox One X are providing the small subset of console gamers who do want better visuals after three years of a gen launching exactly that opportunity.
tl;dr: 5+ year console generations are a good thing for the industry.
All different games? Like what?
Deus Ex runs on a Pentium II . Can't show enough enemies? Kingdom hearts 2 did 1000 on the PS2.
If games are really more technically limited now, it's because they use a larger portion of the available processing power on just making games look fancy. Even then, we're getting stuff like Nex Machina and Claybook, which have destructible environments and run at 60 fps on console (even the xb1 for claybook).
Deus Ex runs on a Pentium II . Can't show enough enemies? Kingdom hearts 2 did 1000 on the PS2.
If games are really more technically limited now, it's because they use a larger portion of the available processing power on just making games look fancy. Even then, we're getting stuff like Nex Machina and Claybook, which have destructible environments and run at 60 fps on console (even the xb1 for claybook).
When game development budgets are pushing close to 100 million for some titles and consoles can still manage to run games like Horizon...I'm going to go ahead and say the current consoles aren't holding back shit.
We're at a point where just about any vision can be brought to life with the current generation of consoles. It's more a question of budget and ability.
VR is a different story.
There's a reason PC exclusives aren't visually surpassing console exclusives...budget is the primary limiting factor for graphics at this point, not horsepower.
We're at a point where just about any vision can be brought to life with the current generation of consoles. It's more a question of budget and ability.
VR is a different story.
There's a reason PC exclusives aren't visually surpassing console exclusives...budget is the primary limiting factor for graphics at this point, not horsepower.
Nor did Naughty Dog, Santa Monica Studio, Insomniac, Level-5, Quantic Dream...
Daffy Duck
Member
Maybe said dev should up his game, I mean this old ass console can produce graphics like this:
Of course the tech will always be behind PC's. Of course it's outdated. But to blame the console for limiting you as a developer seems like a cop out. Obviously they don't have a huge dev team, but when developers can make games like Horizon and Uncharted 4 on a base PS4, it seems like it's more of an issue of small devs not being able to fully utilize the power that is there.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Developers still need to pay bills. Console owners buy tons of games. They are a compromise between power and sales.
nextgeneration
Member
Wouldn't it make more sense for them to comment on the power of ps4 pro and x1x relative to pc's today, since ps4 came out in November 2013?
Pjsprojects
Member
CassidyIzABeast
Member
I feel like we said that about the consoles even before they came out.
Napalm_Frank
Member
Well we have the alternative of making consoles cost 599 US dollars at launch and the install base holding developers back.
Sarcasm
I like Brothers, but this guy kind of sounds like a dick. Or he's talking out of his ass. And that's not entirely in reference to the PS4 comment, but reading the whole engadget article.
I mean, respect for him putting together a studio from nothing and making some sweet games, though. He just seems a little full of himself.
I mean, respect for him putting together a studio from nothing and making some sweet games, though. He just seems a little full of himself.
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