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[Mr Swine]

One question, Nvidia and AMD has had problems with creating their GPUs. Has that been solved now or is it still problem for them? Won't that affect MS and Sonys GPU?

 

[Chuck Norris]

I wish them better luck with the PS4 than they've been experiencing with the PSV, that's for sure. I'm not sure sticking to the traditional roots will be enough, with all the emerging markets we're seeing in the entertainment industry, but we'll see. Can't wait to see what they have next E3.

I'm sure they will have their "hook" and it's looking likely to be Gakai technology, but they won't have a drastic departure from the basics. If any of them do then good luck to them. Even Nintendo has largely gone back to what works best


What emerging markets do you mean

 

[KageMaru]

One question, Nvidia and AMD has had problems with creating their GPUs. Has that been solved now or is it still problem for them? Won't that affect MS and Sonys GPU?

What problems do you mean? Are you referring to the issues Nvidia had with 28nm chips?

I'm sure they will have their "hook" and it's looking likely to be Gakai technology, but they won't have a drastic departure from the basics. If any of them do then good luck to them. Even Nintendo has largely gone back to what works best

What emerging markets do you mean

Well I look at the comments that MS and Sony need to be looking at companies like Google and Apple instead of just each other and think there is merit to that. As we all know, the cost to provide games we all love is rather expensive. The three manufacturers need to do what they can to expand their market as far as possible. Offering an all in one entertainment box is easily one of the directions I see these companies take next gen and they will not want Google or Apple eating into this potential market.

Look at what's possible even on the Wii-U. We can take pictures while playing games and share them, or we can access the web browser at any time while we game. There are also rumors that MS is setting aside 3GB of memory for their OS. While I think that's an incredibly stupid move and a huge waste of resources, if this ends up being true, you can only imagine what they'll offer as options with that much memory.

I'm sure the majority of us hate this thought, but the idea of just a pure gaming machine is long dead IMO. These companies will have to include as many features as possible to just keep up, forget standing out. That's pretty much what I'm talking about.

 

[Panajev2001a]

There are also rumors that MS is setting aside 3GB of memory for their OS. While I think that's an incredibly stupid move and a huge waste of resources, if this ends up being true, you can only imagine what they'll offer as options with that much memory.

Windows RT/8 on Durango .

 

[KageMaru]

Windows RT/8 on Durango .

Let's not joke about such things. =p

Wouldn't surprise me though. The more I hear/read about Durango, the more I don't like.

 

[RoboPlato]

Let's not joke about such things. =p

Wouldn't surprise me though. The more I hear/read about Durango, the more I don't like.

I don't think he's joking. There's a lot of evidence pointing towards that.

 

[KageMaru]

I don't think he's joking. There's a lot of evidence pointing towards that.

Don't want to go too OT, but putting Windows 8 on Durango sounds like it could eat into their PC market and upset OEM. Though I guess they've shown not to care about that with Surface. =p

 

[magash]

Don't want to go too OT, but putting Windows 8 on Durango sounds like it could eat into their PC market and upset OEM. Though I guess they've shown not to care about that with Surface. =p

What then becomes the point of buying an Xbox720 if it comes with Windows 8? Why not just buy a full fledged PC? I don't think MS will install Windows 8 on the next Xbox (atleast I hope they don't).

 

[Giant Panda]

What becomes of Gaikai for PS4 will be interesting. It does not appear that the infrastructure will be ready for many features for the first few years. That's why I'm not sure that Sony rely only on that to draw people in.

 

[mrklaw]

What problems do you mean? Are you referring to the issues Nvidia had with 28nm chips?



Well I look at the comments that MS and Sony need to be looking at companies like Google and Apple instead of just each other and think there is merit to that. As we all know, the cost to provide games we all love is rather expensive. The three manufacturers need to do what they can to expand their market as far as possible. Offering an all in one entertainment box is easily one of the directions I see these companies take next gen and they will not want Google or Apple eating into this potential market.

Look at what's possible even on the Wii-U. We can take pictures while playing games and share them, or we can access the web browser at any time while we game. There are also rumors that MS is setting aside 3GB of memory for their OS. While I think that's an incredibly stupid move and a huge waste of resources, if this ends up being true, you can only imagine what they'll offer as options with that much memory.

I'm sure the majority of us hate this thought, but the idea of just a pure gaming machine is long dead IMO. These companies will have to include as many features as possible to just keep up, forget standing out. That's pretty much what I'm talking about.

Sure, but that's all just software at the end of the day. A powerful console for playing games would also be fine for that too.

And PS3 is one of the best 'all round' entertainment machines around - bluray, tons of online services, DVR Add-ons in Europe and Japan, I think both MS and Sony will be well placed with that next gen

 

[Shin Johnpv]

This thread really should be renamed to "One man's speculation and pie in the sky dreams about the PS4"

 

[Canis lupus]

Windows RT/8 on Durango .

I would actually like that, would be good as a htpc.

 

[i-Lo]

This thread really should be renamed to "One man's speculation and pie in the sky dreams about the PS4"

So I guess that's that. PS4 will fail if it's not launched at the same price point as WiiU, have slightly better tech than PS3 with AMD6670 after nearly 7 years.

Anything more ambitious and it's all pie in the sky and Sony goes belly up.

 

[88random]

So, realistically, what are the chances we will see 8xxx series in PS4? I think it is posiible, especially by the time comes, it just seems too good to be true.

 

[SniperHunter]

there haven't been any new rumours in a while, looks like Sony hasn't provided an updated kit to most developers. The initial kit rumours were disappointing.

 

[Kleegamefan]

So, realistically, what are the chances we will see 8xxx series in PS4? I think it is posiible, especially by the time comes, it just seems too good to be true.

Performance per watt is fantastic on 8xxx..better even than 7000 series.......to not use 8000 tech would be to give up similar performance at much lower clock speeds...an ideal situation in a console environment.

Its no more expensive either and the timing is right......no reason for sony not to use 8000 tech because it is not a radical rethink but rather an evolutionary refinement of hd7000

 

[i-Lo]

Performance per watt is fantastic on 8xxx..better even than 7000 series.......to not use 8000 tech would be to give up similar performance at much lower clock speeds...an ideal situation in a console environment.

Its no more expensive either and the timing is right......no reason for sony not to use 8000 tech because it is not a radical rethink but rather an evolutionary refinement of hd7000

Hell, even if the performance in customized 8XXX chip is around the same as base 7870 at ~2.25TFLOPS, it'll be fantastic.

And with regards to die size, PS3's first gen RSX was 258mm^2 and so an increase of 12mm^2 overall shouldn't make it impractical esp. since a few years down the line it'll shrink again.

 

[RoboPlato]

Hell, even if the performance in customized 8XXX chip is around the same as base 7870 at ~2.25TFLOPS, it'll be fantastic.

And with regards to die size, PS3's first gen RSX was 258mm^2 and so an increase of 12mm^2 overall shouldn't make it impractical esp. since a few years down the line it'll shrink again.

This is what I'm hoping for as well. An underclocked 8000 series may hit low 2Tflop numbers, which I thought was a pipe dream before, and be lower in watt useage with new features like HSA switching. The only thing I think might hold them back from that is the readiness of the motherboards.

 

[KageMaru]

Sure, but that's all just software at the end of the day. A powerful console for playing games would also be fine for that too.

And PS3 is one of the best 'all round' entertainment machines around - bluray, tons of online services, DVR Add-ons in Europe and Japan, I think both MS and Sony will be well placed with that next gen

Well you can't do many of those media features while gaming on the PS360 and that's where things may change next gen. It all depends on what Sony and MS want to allow while also playing games.

So I guess that's that. PS4 will fail if it's not launched at the same price point as WiiU, have slightly better tech than PS3 with AMD6670 after nearly 7 years.

Anything more ambitious and it's all pie in the sky and Sony goes belly up.

I think he was making a joke about Jeff.

 

[RoboPlato]

Well you can't do many of those media features while gaming on the PS360 and that's where things may change next gen. It all depends on what Sony and MS want to allow while also playing games.

Just let me background download while watching a blu ray and I'll be happy.

 

[Shtof]

What then becomes the point of buying an Xbox720 if it comes with Windows 8? Why not just buy a full fledged PC? I don't think MS will install Windows 8 on the next Xbox (atleast I hope they don't).

Of course it will run some variation Windows 8, but probably more of the phone/tablet variant than the PC one.

 

[i-Lo]

Any idea if the performance gap between tessellation unit in 8XXX and 7XXX would be as wide as it was between 7XXX and 6XXX where in certain tests even the 7770 out shined the 6870?

 

[Mr Swine]

Any idea if the performance gap between tessellation unit in 8XXX and 7XXX would be as wide as it was between 7XXX and 6XXX where in certain tests even the 7770 out shined the 6870?

Tesselation unit will be more efficient but how much nobody knows. Won't be as much as it was between the 5xxx to 6xxxx

 

[pharmboy044]

Just let me background download while watching a blu ray and I'll be happy.

.

I know this is a hardware thread but what do people think of Sony actually evolving there UI/UX of the PS4. Do you think they might just stay with the boring XMB?

 

[Panajev2001a]

.

I know this is a hardware thread but what do people think of Sony actually evolving there UI/UX of the PS4. Do you think they might just stay with the boring XMB?

I think we might see an evolution of the OS/UI stack developed for Vita. No, not necessarily the bubbles and all, but I think it might share the same core. I do like Vita's OS and GUI a LOT!

 

[88random]

Article about next gpus, with that comparison table for 7850/7878 vs 8850/8870

http://vr-zone.com/articles/amd-nex...-2015-gpus-get-names/17154.html#ixzz271DhFlIb

The interesting stuff:
''Also worth mentioning is that SI is the architecture chosen to be expanded into high-performance consoles, thus we should see quite interesting announcements regarding to vast compute and graphics capabilities carrying the next generation of console games.''

 

[USC-fan]

Article about next gpus, with that comparison table for 7850/7878 vs 8850/8870

http://vr-zone.com/articles/amd-nex...-2015-gpus-get-names/17154.html#ixzz271DhFlIb

The interesting stuff:
''Also worth mentioning is that SI is the architecture chosen to be expanded into high-performance consoles, thus we should see quite interesting announcements regarding to vast compute and graphics capabilities carrying the next generation of console games.''

Man if they pair SI with an apu it will be THE BEST THING EVER! You would have a tflop apu with a 2-2.5 tflop gpu. Just amazing....

Kaveri apu + Southern Island gpu + 4GB GDDR5. PLEASE MAKE IT HAPPEN!

Even if they down clock the gpu to 1.87 tflop you would still have over 2.5 tflop in the console. 10x the ps3 just on paper. That doesnt included the performance gains per glfop.

 

[thuway]

Man if they pair SI with an apu it will be THE BEST THING EVER! You would have a tflop apu with a 2-2.5 tflop gpu. Just amazing....

Kaveri apu + Southern Island gpu + 4GB GDDR5. PLEASE MAKE IT HAPPEN!

Even if they down clock the gpu to 1.87 tflop you would still have over 2.5 tflop in the console. 10x the ps3 just on paper. That doesnt included the performance gains per glfop.

YES YES YES

 

[jeff_rigby]

Article about next gpus, with that comparison table for 7850/7878 vs 8850/8870

http://vr-zone.com/articles/amd-nex...-2015-gpus-get-names/17154.html#ixzz271DhFlIb

The interesting stuff:
''Also worth mentioning is that SI is the architecture chosen to be expanded into high-performance consoles, thus we should see quite interesting announcements regarding to vast compute and graphics capabilities carrying the next generation of console games.''

Doesn't the article confirm a 8000 series Sea Islands for game Consoles And in the chart below is a 2014 feature set released in 2013. That appears to create confusion in the article as it's mentioning Sea Islands 8000 series as a 2013 but in other charts and articles it's a 2014 design. ??

 

[Graphics Horse]

Doesn't the article confirm a 8000 series Sea Islands for game Consoles And in the chart below is a 2014 feature set released in 2013. That appears to create confusion in the article as it's mentioning Sea Islands 8000 series as a 2013 but in other charts and articles it's a 2014 design.

http://limages.vr-zone.net/body/17154/AMD_HSA_2014.jpg.jpeg[/QUOTE]

As I understood it the document that page is from lists Sea Islands as 2013. The 2014 feature set is not for Sea Islands, but apparently for Volcanic Islands. I might be missing something.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

So I guess that's that. PS4 will fail if it's not launched at the same price point as WiiU, have slightly better tech than PS3 with AMD6670 after nearly 7 years.

Anything more ambitious and it's all pie in the sky and Sony goes belly up.

No one said that, but some of the shit speculated in this thread is fucking pie in the sky. There's being realistic and then there's being stupid. Plus way to read way to fucking much into a comment.

 

[jeff_rigby]

As I understood it the document that page is from lists Sea Islands as 2013. The 2014 feature set is not for Sea Islands, but apparently for Volcanic Islands. I might be missing something.

In the 2014 list of features is GPU compute context Switch which I read in another article as part of the 8000 series but the next three are new, I haven't seen mentioned; that's the only thing I'm going on. GPU graphics Pre-emption and Quality of Service probably go with GPU compute context Switch. My guess would be QOS for GPU means the GPU used for graphics can take priority over GPU used for Compute, same for GPU graphics Pre-emption. They might all go together, might mostly be software (compiler library) with some register or cache differences to make it more efficient.

I can be missing something too or any one of the authors is also confused. ??

 

[Graphics Horse]

In the 2014 list of features is GPU compute context Switch which I read in another article as part of the 8000 series but the next three are new, I haven't seen mentioned; that's the only thing I'm going on. GPU graphics Pre-emption and Quality of Service probably go with GPU compute context Switch. My guess would be QOS for GPU means the GPU used for graphics can take priority over GPU used for Compute, same for GPU graphics Pre-emption. They might all go together, might mostly be software (compiler library) with some register or cache differences to make it more efficient.

I can be missing something too or any one of the authors is also confused. ??

I don't know the details, but this is where Sea Islands is mentioned as 2013.

 

[mrklaw]

Well you can't do many of those media features while gaming on the PS360 and that's where things may change next gen. It all depends on what Sony and MS want to allow while also playing games.



I think he was making a joke about Jeff.

With the PS3 DVR in the Uk you can record programs while gaming. Of course you can't watch Netflix while gaming, you only have one TV, but they could leverage vita (and tablets) for second screen stuff.

I'd like to see Sony or MS do some HDMI passthrough stuff so you can be watching live TV, get a notification and jump right into a game. Or do combined live TV/online search like Nintendo TVii. Sony are more likely to try that as they have an existing relationship with googleTV which does a lot of that already

 

[dr_rus]

Man if they pair SI with an apu it will be THE BEST THING EVER! You would have a tflop apu with a 2-2.5 tflop gpu. Just amazing....

And how exactly are you planning on combining their work on game graphics? Flops themselves are absolutely pointless.

Kaveri apu + Southern Island gpu + 4GB GDDR5. PLEASE MAKE IT HAPPEN!

Nah. At least 4 good CPU cores (don't much care what they'll be) + a GPU good enough to render at 1080p native all the time (that puts us in Pitcairn XT territory; note that it should have a 256 bit GDDR5 memory bus) + as much RAM as possible.

Latest rumors seem to suggest 4 Jaguar CPU cores (ok I guess), ~Pitcairn GPU (that's a minimum a new console should aim for if it's planning on even touching 1080p native graphics) and 2 GB RAM (4 if we're lucky). That's a pretty solid machine that doesn't need any APU+GPU bullshit. They only whing that worries me in h/w is the memory system - it should be at least 256 bit GDDR5/DDR4 UMA otherwise this machine won't be able to render at 1080p30.

 

[Mandoric]

And how exactly are you planning on combining their work on game graphics? Flops themselves are absolutely pointless.


Nah. At least 4 good CPU cores (don't much care what they'll be) + a GPU good enough to render at 1080p native all the time (that puts us in Pitcairn XT territory; note that it should have a 256 bit GDDR5 memory bus) + as much RAM as possible.

Latest rumors seem to suggest 4 Jaguar CPU cores (ok I guess), ~Pitcairn GPU (that's a minimum a new console should aim for if it's planning on even touching 1080p native graphics) and 2 GB RAM (4 if we're lucky). That's a pretty solid machine that doesn't need any APU+GPU bullshit. They only whing that worries me in h/w is the memory system - it should be at least 256 bit GDDR5/DDR4 UMA otherwise this machine won't be able to render at 1080p30.

AMD's been Crossfiring them on laptops for some time now. Why do you think they'd drop their preferred implementation for all-in-one systems when it gives so many power usage advantages in the entertainment hub role?

 

[jeff_rigby]

Spent some time re-reading multiple threads and previous posts on the PS4. One thing mentioned by Sony's CTO was the PS4 chipset being used for medical imaging has been reinforced by Sony investments in Medical fields.

Sony (NYSE:SNE) to invest $642-M in Olympus

Sony will set up a joint business with Olympus to develop new medical equipment, and next year will send an executive to join its board of directors.

Sony wants to nurture new businesses, including medical equipment, to increase revenue as it draws back from loss-making televisions.

So-net Entertainment Corp Announces Completion of Takeover Bid Proposed by Sony Corp

This purchase has it all including Medical M3 "Take advantage of the medium of the Internet, to change the world of health care."

It appears that bundled ray tracing may be used in 3D medical imaging and rumors of the PS4 having FPGA added to the mix to more efficiently handle intersection/ Voxel image database calculations may have support. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgIXwF53j6I&feature=player_detailpage

 

[spwolf]

Spent some time re-reading multiple threads and previous posts on the PS4. One thing mentioned by Sony's CTO was the PS4 chipset being used for medical imaging has been reinforced by Sony investments in Medical fields.

where did they mention that they will use PS4 chipset for medical imaging?

 

[ll_l_x_l_ll]

Then as a gaming company they will cease to exist. Have you not been following the disaster that is the PSVITA? Sony has no room for error. This idea that the PS4 should be designed for 'hardcore' gamers is going to kill PlayStation.

What Sony needs to do is to try as much as possible to see that they launch the PS4 at $300-$350.

i am sorry but what? PS VITA is a disaster ?

since when ? as a system its way more powerful and better system than 3ds by miles. and its getting upcoming stunning good games. and in fact for the first 6 or 7 months the PS VITA has more games than the 3Ds did at that time.

do not talk to me about sales figures. i don't give a furry rat ass behind. that's Sony problem to deal with. For me as long as the system is getting good games it what matters the most.

if Sony to reduce the price to the same level as 3ds or get couple of high exclusive games for Japanese gamers, this thing will fly. do not under estimate the system.

and this is about the PS4. do i will not changel this thread to VITA

 

[iamshadowlark]

Damn Sony is still spending big money. I guess they have to these days to make money.

 

[magash]

i am sorry but what? PS VITA is a disaster ?

since when ? as a system its way more powerful and better system than 3ds by miles. and its getting upcoming stunning good games. and in fact for the first 6 or 7 months the PS VITA has more games than the 3Ds did at that time.

do not talk to me about sales figures. i don't give a furry rat ass behind. that's Sony problem to deal with. For me as long as the system is getting good games it what matters the most.

if Sony to reduce the price to the same level as 3ds or get couple of high exclusive games for Japanese gamers, this thing will fly. do not under estimate the system.

and this is about the PS4. do i will not changel this thread to VITA

When will gamers learn that the ability of the game makers to make games that we all like is directly linked to their ability to stay afloat? You liking the VITA is a personal taste that most gamers don't share.

 

[Bluemercury]

i am sorry but what? PS VITA is a disaster ?

since when ? as a system its way more powerful and better system than 3ds by miles. and its getting upcoming stunning good games. and in fact for the first 6 or 7 months the PS VITA has more games than the 3Ds did at that time.

do not talk to me about sales figures. i don't give a furry rat ass behind. that's Sony problem to deal with. For me as long as the system is getting good games it what matters the most.

if Sony to reduce the price to the same level as 3ds or get couple of high exclusive games for Japanese gamers, this thing will fly. do not under estimate the system.

and this is about the PS4. do i will not changel this thread to VITA

Yes it is....and no you dont have to be sorry...

 

[ll_l_x_l_ll]

When will gamers learn that the ability of the game makers to make games that we all like is directly linked to their ability to stay afloat? You liking the VITA is a personal taste that most gamers don't share.

when you will learn not to worry about game makers and what kind of deals they make with sony or any other company ?

as IF developers are spending million of dollars on a game for a new console is " a money maker "

sales for a game iisn't decided on first month sales only . MGS4 till this days sells on PS3

if you are a gamer, enjoy the games that coming on your fav systems. and stop spitting crap about sales figures as a reason not to buy a system or the system is failure

you basically called VITA a disaster because of its sales, when in fact it has many good games for a system that isn't even 1 year old yet.

at least when you try to bash a system. do it with a style lol . subject is closed man i aint gonna waste more time on this with you

Yes it is....and no you dont have to be sorry...

LoL. no wonder why i don't post much here. too many stupid posts.. just like this one.. gives you an idea what kind of an IQ the person behind it has

 

[GopherD]

if you are a gamer, enjoy the games that coming on your fav systems. and stop spitting crap about sales figures as a reason not to buy a system or the system is failure

no wonder why i don't post much here.

GAF needs many many more people who think like you do. This past couple of months of shit on these forums is turning many a stomach.

 

[Mandoric]

you basically called VITA a disaster because of its sales, when in fact it has many good games for a system that isn't even 1 year old yet.

Well, it's sure lucky it got a lot of good games first year, because it ain't gonna third.

 

[Vic]

when you will learn not to worry about game makers and what kind of deals they make with sony or any other company ?

as IF developers are spending million of dollars on a game for a new console is " a money maker "

sales for a game iisn't decided on first month sales only . MGS4 till this days sells on PS3

if you are a gamer, enjoy the games that coming on your fav systems. and stop spitting crap about sales figures as a reason not to buy a system or the system is failure

you basically called VITA a disaster because of its sales, when in fact it has many good games for a system that isn't even 1 year old yet.

at least when you try to bash a system. do it with a style lol . subject is closed man i aint gonna waste more time on this with you





LoL. no wonder why i don't post much here. too many stupid posts.. just like this one.. gives you an idea what kind of an IQ the person behind it has

Hahaha, amazing.

 

[Globox_82]

ppl that spam about vita in here should get a ban warning. what is this crap, am i on n4g?

 

[deadlast]

So Sony plans on supporting the PS3 with game releases till 2015 and farther into the future if games sell well on the system. The updated PS3 is going with a street price of 270 USD. Some are speculating that the PS4 will have an 8000 chipset.

Based on the above paragraph I am assuming that the PS4 will launch in 2014.

My only question now is, Can the new specs support software emulation of the Cell/RSX? Previous specs said no, but have things changed enough to allow software based BC?

 

[KojiKnight]

So Sony plans on supporting the PS3 with game releases till 2015 and farther into the future if games sell well on the system. The updated PS3 is going with a street price of 270 USD. Some are speculating that the PS4 will have an 8000 chipset.

Based on the above paragraph I am assuming that the PS4 will launch in 2014.

My only question now is, Can the new specs support software emulation of the Cell/RSX? Previous specs said no, but have things changed enough to allow software based BC?

Nope... No amount of currently available x86-64 tech is going to be able to emulate the ps3 hardware in software. Hell, even super top of the line PCs still can't emulate all PS2 games at full speed (due to bandwidth limitations).

 

[phosphor112]

Nope... No amount of currently available x86-64 tech is going to be able to emulate the ps3 hardware in software. Hell, even super top of the line PCs still can't emulate all PS2 games at full speed (due to bandwidth limitations).

GPU SPU's might be able to. But it would take several SPU's to emulate one SPE in the Cell... which would likely cause latency...