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[Steverulez]

My question is :: Will current PS4 games be patched to take advantage of PS4K's extra horsepower?

My guess is that games which are a long-term service (like The Division, maybe Destiny depending on next expansion) and so on will be very good contenders for that but titles that are already done will generally not be updated - perhaps some first party exceptions if Sony are feeling nice.

I wouldn't expect Knack in 4k for example but Uncharted 4... big first party title might get some sort of update to show off the box perhaps [not saying UC4 will be in 4k]

 

[NoWayOut]

Probably not unless they can find a way to charge for it otherwise why bother?

If it's just a matter of unlocking the frame rate for titles that currently target 30fps. It shouldn't require much effort... Unless developers had the brilliant idea to "link" other components, like the physics engine, to the frame rate.

 

[rauelius]

I think the SLI comment is the part where it became clear that Sony's baiting insiders. Even some of the leaks from different insiders line up with SLI, like requiring a patch to use the extra power which fits with SLI. Obviously Sony would have to be completely insane to do that, so one has to question the rumor sources the insiders are working with after the initial round of leaks.

SLI = nVidia
Crossfire = AMD
Multi-GPU Configuration = Either

On behalf of all PC Gamers I implore you to refer to it either as "Multi-GPU Configuration" or Crossfire. Since the PS4k will likely be using an AMD APU with an AMD-GPU built in, adding an additional AMD-GPU to the board would be similar to AMD's Hybrid CROSSFIRE.

Hybrid Crossfire allowed an APU to Crossfire with a discrete Graphics card. So a PS4k using a more advanced version of this would be within the realm of possibility.

So let's play Theoretic here.

Let's say the PS4k is going to be using an APU based on AMD's upcoming Zen and Polaris CPUs and GPUs respectively.

Now lets say the new PS4k APU is based on the Quad-Core/8-Thread Zen CPU running at 2.4Ghz, with an R9-380/GTX960 class GPU based on Polaris. Now, while a single GPU of that class may not be able to run 4k, but in Hybrid-Crossfire with a GPU similar to the one in the APU tied with 16GB of GDDR5 memory and the general console fine-tuning, would see 4k/30fps actually be realistic.

The other route would be a dual-APU set up. Two Zen Quad-Core, each with an R9-380 class GPU.

I mean that's a hell of a chip to keep under-wraps, but seriously 4-5 years ago, the PS4's APU was pretty decent by today's standards. A 1.6Ghz 8-Core Athlon Processor with an AMD Radeon 7850/R7-265/R7-370 class GPU. Hell, today that would still be a pretty potent APU to build a media PC out of.

So, release about 4 years after the original PS4 helps make those theoretical specs at least plausible.

Also, I use the R9-380 as a performance stand-point. The 14nm Polaris Chip of it's performance class is likely what AMD demonstrated a few months ago against a GTX950 in Battlefront.

 

[QuickSilverD]

I think the VR thing might sound likely.

If it's twice as powerful maybe that means....

PS4 + PS VR ---> 3D @ 60 fps + reprojection

PS4K + PS VR ---> 3D @ 120 fps

Maybe?

Not unless we also get twice CPU performance and possible much higher memory bandwidth

 

[David Ricardo]

I think the VR thing might sound likely.

If it's twice as powerful maybe that means....

PS4 + PS VR ---> 3D @ 60 fps + reprojection

PS4K + PS VR ---> 3D @ 120 fps

Maybe?

I think this will go something like this

PS4 ---> 1080p 30 (no VR)

PS4k + PSVR ---> 3D@ 60fps + reprojection


PS4 PSVR reprojected games will probably run @90 fps in PS4k with extra AA.

 

[Raist]

What if most games are using the AMD APU for GPGPU for some features that can use APIs released by Sony taking advantage of the GPGPU that Eurogamer reported on for the initial PS4 hardware breakdown? Remember AMD recommended small APU + dGPU until after 2014 designs and the XB1 and PS4 are older designs. So where is the small APU? The XB1 is a post 2014 custom design and the PS4 is a small APU + large APU design. The small APU is Southbridge and is all ARM and may or may not have a GPU but it does have GPGPU which can emulate a GPU or provide the compute the shaders in a GPU can provide.

Why on earth do you think there's potentially a GPU or something like it in the SB from that quote?
"Not in the main graphics pipeline" doesn't necessarily mean "not on the same chip".

 

[boredandlazy]

Question. The PS4 GPU is equivalent to a 7970m, yes or no?

No. I think it's between a 7850 and a 7870.

 

[onQ123]

Stop. Just stop.

Adding another GPU to the system requires a complete rework of PCB design (extensive and costly R&D), SLI/Crossfire/Async compute does not offer perfect scaling, relies on the yields of two chips rather than one, and complicates the software side including the potential for a limited developer intervention solution for 4k output. It's the opposite of "smart design."

You have no idea what you are talking about mentioning half precision floating point operations as a breakthrough for higher performance. 32 bit (single) precision has been in use for decades for a reason. 16 bit (half) precision has only returned to relevance for it's use in research for AI neural networks in the last few years.

I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[KuroNeeko]

Ridiculous. I just bought my PS4 over Christmas.

Give me a break, Sony!

 

[stryke]

No. I think it's between a 7850 and a 7870.

Which is pretty much what the 7970m is. Still slightly more powerful than the ps4 gpu though.

 

[TetraGenesis]

Ridiculous. I just bought my PS4 over Christmas.

Give me a break, Sony!

I'm sure they meant to check in with you but it just slipped through the cracks.

 

[bitbydeath]

Ridiculous. I just bought my PS4 over Christmas.

Give me a break, Sony!

Unless you just woke from a coma I don't think you can blame Sony for taking so long to get a PS4.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Unless you just woke from a coma I don't think you can blame Sony for taking so long to get a PS4.

So it's his fault and he should have seen this coming?

 

[bitbydeath]

So it's his fault and he should have seen this coming?

I think someone who waited over 2 years to buy one should have no reason to complain.

It's not like they bought the current one at launch so why the sudden desire to buy the next at launch?

 

[onQ123]

Funny that this PS4K goes against most of what people thought would happen yet they try to use their old way of thinking to define what it could be?


I talked about how GPGPU rendering could give us games that look better than we thought was possible this generation & people thought I was crazy but now we have Dreams


I talked about 4K gaming support in this generation of consoles & people shut it down but now look we have PS4K coming soon.


I asked if people would upgrade to a PS3.5 or Xbox 360 plus & people thought it would never fly but here we are PS4.5 has wings.

So I have learned that when most of Gaf disagree with my thoughts it's nothing to worry about because people tend to follow the 1st response & things could go either way around here.

Until we have real answers it's all speculations so I'll stick to my thoughts until I have proof that says other wise.

 

[wapplew]

I think someone who waited over 2 years to buy one should have no reason to complain.

It's not like they bought the current one at launch so why the sudden desire to buy the next at launch?

Reasonable or not, that maybe some most common respond to this news.
I guess it's down to how Sony carry out the message, they gotta be extra careful here.

 

[Vorg]

Reasonable or not, that maybe some most common respond to this news.
I guess it's down to how Sony carry out the message, they gotta be extra careful here.

Free knack for all ps4 "ambassadors".

 

[onQ123]

Reasonable or not, that maybe some most common respond to this news.
I guess it's down to how Sony carry out the message, they gotta be extra careful here.

They really don't. people are buying up the PS4 & they will buy up the PS4K or whatever they call it because it's just a PS4 with even better specs.

 

[boredandlazy]

Which is pretty much what the 7970m is. Still slightly more powerful than the ps4 gpu though.

Bah, got my mobile GPU's mixed up. Used to have a laptop with a 7970m too.

 

[virtualS]

I have been thinking SLI for a while now (well crossfire to be more accurate). One APU for each eye in PS4/VR mode. Double up for more awesome on 4K TVs.

 

[Vorg]

They really don't. people are buying up the PS4 & they will buy up the PS4K or whatever they call it because it's just a PS4 with even better specs.

Actually they do. The average consumer will probably feel like Sony fucked them over with an unexpected more powerful console mid-gen.

 

[wapplew]

They really don't. people are buying up the PS4 & they will buy up the PS4K or whatever they call it because it's just a PS4 with even better specs.

They have to, need to consider the competition will take some jabs here and there.

 

[GamerMax73]

Free knack for all ps4 "ambassadors".

Off-topic rant:

It still amazes me the complaints PS+ gets every month. This game was critically panned and yet everyone seems to want a free copy. People who complain at all the indie titles being given away site this as an example of a AAA title they want.

Dear Sony, Please stop giving us quality indie titles like Resogun, Contrast, Limbo, Rocket League, Abe's Oddysee, Grim Fandango, Spelunky, Gauntlet, etc - and give us shit AAA titles like Knack instead.

People are stupid!

(end rant)

 

[O Canada Our Home and Native Land]

Actually they do. The average consumer will probably feel like Sony fucked them over with an unexpected more powerful console mid-gen.

They can do some consumer loyalty reward and give away digital games. Or work with Gamestop and buy old ps3s at a generous price and let people upgrade. People buy new Iphones every year or two why not consoles.

I'm glad the new 3ds came out. The old 3ds 3d mode was basically beta tech that shouldn't have been released.

 

[wapplew]

Off-topic rant:

It still amazes me the complaints PS+ gets every month. This game was critically panned and yet everyone seems to want a free copy. People who complain at all the indie titles being given away site this as an example of a AAA title they want.

Dear Sony, Please stop giving us quality indie titles like Resogun, Contrast, Limbo, Rocket League, Abe's Oddysee, Grim Fandango, Spelunky, Gauntlet, etc - and give us shit AAA titles like Knack instead.

People are stupid!

(end rant)

It's a running joke on Gaf, don't read too much into it.

On topic, some trade in program would be cool, but I expect nothing from it. Will buy day 1 anyway, sell my old one to a friend of mine.

 

[Vorg]

Off-topic rant:

It still amazes me the complaints PS+ gets every month. This game was critically panned and yet everyone seems to want a free copy. People who complain at all the indie titles being given away site this as an example of a AAA title they want.

Dear Sony, Please stop giving us quality indie titles like Resogun, Contrast, Limbo, Rocket League, Abe's Oddysee, Grim Fandango, Spelunky, Gauntlet, etc - and give us shit AAA titles like Knack instead.

People are stupid!

(end rant)

Dude, it's a joke. People don't really want knack.

 

[Marty Chinn]

I think someone who waited over 2 years to buy one should have no reason to complain.

It's not like they bought the current one at launch so why the sudden desire to buy the next at launch?

You're pretty much saying he should have know this was coming. It's not unreasonable under the traditional console generation to wait for a price drop and wait for software to become more established before buying into it. How should he have known this was going to happen? Nobody knew this was going to happen so blaming him for buying under the the traditional console model is quite unfair to criticize him for.

 

[EASTC0AST_GH05T]

Dude, it's a joke. People don't really want knack.

I do, for free that is.

 

[David Ricardo]

Funny that this PS4K goes against most of what people thought would happen yet they try to use their old way of thinking to define what it could be?


I talked about how GPGPU rendering could give us games that look better than we thought was possible this generation & people thought I was crazy but now we have Dreams


I talked about 4K gaming support in this generation of consoles & people shut it down but now look we have PS4K coming soon.


I asked if people would upgrade to a PS3.5 or Xbox 360 plus & people thought it would never fly but here we are PS4.5 has wings.

So I have learned that when most of Gaf disagree with my thoughts it's nothing to worry about because people tend to follow the 1st response & things could go either way around here.

Until we have real answers it's all speculations so I'll stick to my thoughts until I have proof that says other wise.

In my book, this generations graphical jump is nothing to write home about, a PS3.5 with 1GB ram in 2011 would have been DOA, and this generation of consoles (PS4/XBO) can't do 4k.


About PS4k? Who knows. But it's going to be really hard to explain to the consumers.

 

[Panajev2001a]

You're pretty much saying he should have know this was coming. It's not unreasonable under the traditional console generation to wait for a price drop and wait for software to become more established before buying into it. How should he have known this was going to happen? Nobody knew this was going to happen so blaming him for buying under the the traditional console model is quite unfair to criticize him for.

Normally the answer a lot of people may give you would be along the lines of "not Sony's fault if he decided to wait...", just like complaining that employees deserve nothing more than their salary and what is strictly in the contract... in a meeting discussing horrible employee retention problems .

 

[onQ123]

Actually they do. The average consumer will probably feel like Sony fucked them over with an unexpected more powerful console mid-gen.

They have to, need to consider the competition will take some jabs here and there.

No they don't this is a new world & people nowadays are used to updated hardware replacing the older model in a short time. they just buy the newer model & they couldn't care less about the people who bought the older model & feel some type a way.

You really think new customers give a damn that you just bought the older model when they see the newer model on the shelf?

 

[onQ123]

In my book, this generations graphical jump is nothing to write home about, a PS3.5 with 1GB ram in 2011 would have been DOA, and this generation of consoles (PS4/XBO) can't do 4k.


About PS4k? Who knows. But it's going to be really hard to explain to the consumers.

PS4K is this generation & it's going to be 4K & it's also the same concept that I proposed with PS3.5.

 

[wapplew]

No they don't this is a new world & people nowadays are used to updated hardware replacing the older model in a short time. they just buy the newer model & they couldn't care less about the people who bought the older model & feel some type a way.

You really think new customers give a damn that you just bought the older model when they see the newer model on the shelf?

People used to digital download on iOS and steam offline mode and DRM shit, doesn't make Xbox one DRM stuff fly under radar.
If they are not careful, this could turn into another round of PR nightmare. People spread some FUD, competitor make it look like anti customer shit, all kind of danger.

Like how many time pro 4K group have explain to random posters about no one force you to upgrade etc? So many times I lost count. That's what Sony going to face when they break the news.

 

[El_Chino]

PS4K is this generation & it's going to be 4K & it's also the same concept that I proposed with PS3.5.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Funny that this PS4K goes against most of what people thought would happen yet they try to use their old way of thinking to define what it could be?


I talked about how GPGPU rendering could give us games that look better than we thought was possible this generation & people thought I was crazy but now we have Dreams


I talked about 4K gaming support in this generation of consoles & people shut it down but now look we have PS4K coming soon.


I asked if people would upgrade to a PS3.5 or Xbox 360 plus & people thought it would never fly but here we are PS4.5 has wings.

So I have learned that when most of Gaf disagree with my thoughts it's nothing to worry about because people tend to follow the 1st response & things could go either way around here.

Until we have real answers it's all speculations so I'll stick to my thoughts until I have proof that says other wise.

Eh, you're jumping the gun here on tooting your own horn.

#1 - Games aren't looking better than expected. Also with the PS4K on the horizon, doesn't that show that it's possible they don't look good enough? If we're blowing people's expectations, there's no need for a hardware upgrade.

#2 - We still don't have any confirmation of 4K gaming. Double the GPU power still might not be enough to pull off games in 4K.

#3 - People back then were against it, and many people in this thread are still against it. We have yet to see if a mid generation upgrade will be successful or not.

So two of your predictions still haven't happened yet, and the first one didn't really happen.

 

[onQ123]

People used to digital download on iOS and steam offline mode and DRM shit, doesn't make Xbox one DRM stuff fly under radar.
If they are not careful, this could turn into another round of PR nightmare. People spread some FUD, competitor make it look like anti customer shit, all kind of danger.

Like how many time pro 4K group have explain to random posters about no one force you to upgrade etc? So many times I lost count. That's what Sony going to face when they break the news.

People will see PS4K hooked up to a 4K TV & say damn what y'all talking about.

 

[Hexa]

PS4K is this generation & it's going to be 4K & it's also the same concept that I proposed with PS3.5.

PS4K is not going to be 4K for the vast majority of games.
PS3.5 was completely unfeasible due to cell and PS4.5 is only feasible because of x86. Whether consumers or accept it or not is a completely different story.
Also Dreams looks good, but its no where near as big as the jumps between other generations.

 

[Marty Chinn]

People will see PS4K hooked up to a 4K TV & say damn what y'all talking about.

You mean the same people who watched SD content on their brand new HDTVs and said damn this is amazing? The same people who can't tell the difference between Netflix and a Blu Ray?

 

[onQ123]

Eh, you're jumping the gun here on tooting your own horn.

#1 - Games aren't looking better than expected. Also with the PS4K on the horizon, doesn't that show that it's possible they don't look good enough? If we're blowing people's expectations, there's no need for a hardware upgrade.

#2 - We still don't have any confirmation of 4K gaming. Double the GPU power still might not be enough to pull off games in 4K.

#3 - People back then were against it, and many people in this thread are still against it. We have yet to see if a mid generation upgrade will be successful or not.

So two of your predictions still haven't happened yet, and the first one didn't really happen.

#1- Whatever Dreams blow everyone's minds when they seen it & it's the 1st game to fully use GPGPU compute for rendering.

#2 - please don't play dumb everything that has leaked out points to 4K gaming even the code name PS4K

#3- it's happening


By the way none of these was predictions they were just my thoughts that just so happen to be the same thoughts that was going through someone else's head at Sony.

 

[David Ricardo]

You're pretty much saying he should have know this was coming. It's not unreasonable under the traditional console generation to wait for a price drop and wait for software to become more established before buying into it. How should he have known this was going to happen? Nobody knew this was going to happen so blaming him for buying under the the traditional console model is quite unfair to criticize him for.

It's understandable that people that just bought the PS4 will be pissed when they know about the PS4k. I bought the PS4 at launch, and I kinda think that I made a mistake too. I could have waited for the PS4.5, avoid the cross gen ports and drought of games in the generation and just jump in 2017 with a more powerful machine with a full catalog of games.

PS4K is this generation & it's going to be 4K & it's also the same concept that I proposed with PS3.5.

So when you said in 2012 4k would be possible this generation you were talking about PS4k?

Also, the concept you proposed was a PS3.5, 6 years into the generation. This PS4k is rumored to come just in the middle of the generation.

 

[El_Chino]

#1- Whatever Dreams blow everyone's minds when they seen it & it's the 1st game to fully use GPGPU compute for rendering.

#2 - please don't play dumb everything that has leaked out points to 4K gaming even the code name PS4K

#3- it's happening


By the way none of these was predictions they were just my thoughts that just so happen to be the same thoughts that was going through someone else's head at Sony.

It hasn't been confirmed for 4k gaming, pretty sure it states that in the OP.

PS4K is the name given because of the UHD Blu Ray Player.

 

[Marty Chinn]

#1- Whatever Dreams blow everyone's minds when they seen it & it's the 1st game to fully use GPGPU compute for rendering.

#2 - please don't play dumb everything that has leaked out points to 4K gaming even the code name PS4K

#3- it's happening


By the way none of these was predictions they were just my thoughts that just so happen to be the same thoughts that was going through someone else's head at Sony.

#1 - It looks good, but it's not anything that was beyond expectations. Also make up your mind, is the hardware good enough or not because it seems like we're getting a mid generation upgrade.

#2 - We have speculation on what the console will be. No doubt it will do 4K video, UHD support, etc. It's still quite questionable whether it can pull off 4K gaming though in any meaningful way. 4K games is quite demanding on the PC side already so simply doubling the GPU performance of the PS4 doesn't seem like it will be feasible. I imagine they may do upscaling, but 4K games as a standard has yet to be established.

#3 - Nobody said this wasn't happening. What's in dispute is if it's going to be successful or not which that thread said it wouldn't be and many people in this thread stand by that too. Doing something doesn't mean it will work.

 

[Alx]

#1- Whatever Dreams blow everyone's minds when they seen it & it's the 1st game to fully use GPGPU compute for rendering.

Maybe it's a silly question, but isn't the whole idea of GPGPU to use a GPU for other tasks than rendering ? When a GPU is used to generate an image, even in an unconventional manner, it's still doing its original task, not a "general purpose" one.

 

[omonimo]

PS4K is not going to be 4K for the vast majority of games.
PS3.5 was completely unfeasible due to cell and PS4.5 is only feasible because of x86. Whether consumers or accept it or not is a completely different story.
Also Dreams looks good, but its no where near as big as the jumps between other generations.

No? So I imagine the jump between Knack and Dreams is barely noticeable for you. If you say so

 

[onQ123]

PS4K is not going to be 4K for the vast majority of games.
PS3.5 was completely unfeasible due to cell and PS4.5 is only feasible because of x86. Whether consumers or accept it or not is a completely different story.
Also Dreams looks good, but its no where near as big as the jumps between other generations.

The games will be up-rendered to 4K & Cell would not stop something like a PS4.5 from happening, what sense does that even make?

Dreams is mind blowing.

You mean the same people who watched SD content on their brand new HDTVs and said damn this is amazing? The same people who can't tell the difference between Netflix and a Blu Ray?

Yep! I have a family full of these people & they are buying 4K TVs right now or looking into getting 4K TVs a few of us already have them & this PS4 having the 4K name attached to it & being a 4K Blu-ray player & 4K gaming console is going to make it the 1st choice when someone want some 4K content to go with the 4K TV. besides Netflix & Amazon video.

 

[Iztok Mravlja]

People are still seriosuly expecting this thing to play games at native 4K?

I hope they won't point to the few tech demos & indies that might and then say they were right all along.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Yep! I have a family full of these people & they are buying 4K TVs right now or looking into getting 4K TVs a few of us already have them & this PS4 having the 4K name attached to it & being a 4K Blu-ray player & 4K gaming console is going to make it the 1st choice when someone want some 4K content to go with the 4K TV. besides Netflix & Amazon video.

So what you're saying is they're suckers because they're buying it for the sake of hearing it's 4K and not because they actually can see the difference or care about 4K.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Are we seriously still using old Durango and Orbis speculation to speculate on the NEXT hardware?
Jeff what Eurogamer was talking about sounds like the 8 Asynchronous Compute Engines, not something on a second chip.

No, I'm using what is in the Launch PS4 and what is in the latest AMD dGPUs AMD says are designed for VR. Those 8 ACE blocks allow Asynchronous Compute which makes software that takes advantage of it more efficient and was one of the post 2014 AMD GPU features. Are game engines designed for the PS4 or for what is typically in the XB1 and PCs as AMD is just now ramping up VR GPUs. Are PS4 games now getting engines that take advantage of this? Those AMD dGPUs designed for VR also have blocks of GPGPU separate from the main graphics; " bespoke GPU-like "Compute" module, designed to ease the burden on certain operations. We're assured that this is bespoke hardware that is not a part of the main graphics pipeline but we remain rather mystified by its standalone inclusion."

The separate GPGPU perform the functions necessary to add VR Googles: frame rate doubling, video distortion for the goggles and more. If that separate GPGPU was not included then GPU cycles would be needed to do the same. Note the More would be up and down converting video for a digital bridge (UHD Blu-ray and Playready VR), Codecs streaming encryption and decryption, post processing and OpenVX which is needed for head tracking etc. To this point GPGPU has been used but OpenVX was finalized by Khronos a year ago...it's about time that it's started to be supported in AMD GPUs.

I cited AMD saying that they expect the 2016 sales of semi-custom APUs for the XB1 and PS4 to exceed the 2015 numbers. This does not include a new faster more powerful APU. It has nothing to do with more efficiency or VR but the "MORE" that can be supported with the same hardware. Because of the AMD press release I DO NOT BELIEVE a more powerful PS4 is coming in 2016.

The increase in sales can only be because both Sony and Microsoft are going to offer new attractive features for their Game Consoles that appeal to a wider range of consumer types. These new features might use the GPGPU in the XB1, PS4 and new AMD APUs and dGPUs and the timing is via an agreement between the three tied to a CE industry roadmap.

 

[Iztok Mravlja]

So what you're saying is they're suckers because they're buying it for the sake of hearing it's 4K and not because they actually can see the difference or care about 4K.

To be fair, a business like Sony doesn't care *why* you buy the thing, so long as you buy it.

 

[Hexa]

No? So I imagine the jump between Knack and Dreams is barely noticeable for you. If you say so

They're the same generation? I have no idea what point you're trying to make.
The jump between MGS to MGS2 or MGS3 to MGS4 is bigger than MGS4 to MGS5 or LBP to Dreams as examples is the point I'm trying to make.