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Rumor: Amazon's new game console is core oriented, Amazon snapping up game devs

Amazon make shit products. The kindlefire HD is one of the worst tablets to have ever been made. Next I time I should avoid buying gadgets from electronic noobies like Amazon. They will get annihilated if they come into the console market.

Agree 100%. The Kindle Fire is just a shitty, cheap way to get you to pay for Amazon's services. It's poorly built and runs sluggish as fuck because they cut so many corners.

You obviously have never used a Kindle Fire HD if you think its problem is its build quality. It has an incredible screen. Its speakers are also superb. It's a pretty device.

The problem is Amazon's skin over Android. It's clunky and disgusting, designed to make Android even easier.

If you root it, it's miles better than the original Nexus 7.
 

SystemBug

Member
Dear Junior,

There are lots of Android games that are equally as good(if you like mobile gaming) and most games are available on both platforms. No need to slag one mobile os just because you seem to prefer another.

<3
iOS has had a better game selection for a long time. Sure they might make their way to the Android but that usually takes time - iOS store is always the first thing that is targeted.

Not to mention how unoptimized a number of Andriod games are.
 

kingkitty

Member
Maybe the console will be some sort of tablet, like the Wii U game pad. If it's not ridiculous expensive, I'd be interested.

edit: But if the tech is only good for android games, then...I'll stick with my phone.
 

RM8

Member
iOS has had a better game selection for a long time. Sure they might make their way to the Android but that usually takes time - iOS store is always the first thing that is targeted.

Not to mention how unoptimized a number of Andriod games are.
I personally ended up selling my iPod Touch because almost everything I want to play makes it to Android. I'm a big lurker of the iOS thread because the overlap is pretty significant now. Not that there aren't iOS exclusives, but still.

BTW I have zero interest in consoles without exclusive games that I can't play anywhere else, so no Android consoles for me.
 

enra

Neo Member
You is a big difference than the mainstream user. Amazon has the ability to make this huge. They dwarf companies like Sony and Nintendo in size and resources. Even Microsoft too

Amazon dwarfs Sony and MS?

Sony revenue: US$ 72.349 billion
MS revenue: US$ 77.85 billion

Amazon revenue: US$ 61.09 billion
 
You obviously have never used a Kindle Fire HD if you think its problem is its build quality. It has an incredible screen. Its speakers are also superb. It's a pretty device.

The problem is Amazon's skin over Android. It's clunky and disgusting, designed to make Android even easier.

If you root it, it's miles better than the original Nexus 7.

uh..no.

The nexus 7 is 1920 x 1200. The Kindle Fire HD is 1280 x 800.
The nexus 7 has a 5MP rear cam, 1.2MP front. The Kindle HD has a 1.3MP front cam and no rear at all.
The nexus 7 is 1.5ghz quad core, the Kindle Fire HD is a 1.2 GHZ Dual Core.
The nexus 7 is 3 ounces lighter on top of all this.

The Kindle HD (7 inch) doesn't come close to touching the nexus 7.
 

Protome

Member
uh..no.

The nexus 7 is 1920 x 1200. The Kindle Fire HD is 1280 x 800.
The nexus 7 has a 5MP rear cam, 1.2MP front. The Kindle HD has a 1.3MP front cam and no rear at all.
The nexus 7 is 1.5ghz quad core, the Kindle Fire HD is a 1.2 GHZ Dual Core.
The nexus 7 is 3 ounces lighter on top of all this.

The Kindle HD (7 inch) doesn't come close to touching the nexus 7.

They said Original Nexus 7. Not current Nexus 7.
 

Ragnarok

Member
uh..no.

The nexus 7 is 1920 x 1200. The Kindle Fire HD is 1280 x 800.
The nexus 7 has a 5MP rear cam, 1.2MP front. The Kindle HD has a 1.3MP front cam and no rear at all.
The nexus 7 is 1.5ghz quad core, the Kindle Fire HD is a 1.2 GHZ Dual Core.
The nexus 7 is 3 ounces lighter on top of all this.

The Kindle HD (7 inch) doesn't come close to touching the nexus 7.

He said the original Nexus 7, which to my knowledge, did not have the above specs.
 
They can't do their loss leader stuff to get an advantage. That's already how this market works.

This is what I was trying to point out this morning.

Amazon can't cut console prices anymore than they already are in this market. Not if they want to avoid losing hundreds of millions, i.e. the O.G. Xbox.

In terms of hardware quality, they can't come close. Nothing they've released so far (any of the kindles, kindle fires, etc) indicates their engineers are anywhere close to the level of HTC, Asus, Samsung, Apple, or Microsoft in the tablet space. Sony is just out of the question.

The android market is poorly suited to television style gaming with a controller. We've already seen that with Ouya. even if it wasn't, the amount of content on Xbox live and PSN dwarfs the android market several times over. The entirety of the gaming market on Google play in 2012 is less than a quarter of what Sony alone makes in a year from software.

Building a console to try and go up against the PS3 and 360 this late in the game isn't plausible, and building one to take out the Ps4/xbone is madness. It'll be targeted at a different audience. I'm curious to see where amazon goes with it.
 

KillGore

Member
I fear change. It's been so long since a new contender has stepped in. Xbox was 12 years ago! the one before that was almost 20 years ago!
 

Protome

Member
I fear change. It's been so long since a new contender has stepped in. Xbox was 12 years ago! the one before that was almost 20 years ago!

Kinda sounds like this isn't going to be a competitor. It'll be a competitor with the Ouya rather than consoles.
 
He said the original Nexus 7, which to my knowledge, did not have the above specs.

I missed "original". my apologies. That one is older than the Kindle HD- but still has a better processor. 1.2GHZ tegra 3 quad core to 1.2GHZ dual core.

While Amazon mentioned that the Texas Instruments OMAP 4470 chip inside the 8.9 inch Kindle Fire HD is faster than the Tegra 3 SoC (a statement that not all experts seem to agree with), the 7-inch variant of the Kindle Fire HD is actually using a TI OMAP 4460 chip. The OMAP 4460 &#8211; consisting out of a 1.2GHz dual-core A9 processor and a PowerVR SGX540 GPU overclocked to 384 MHz &#8211; is the exact same chip that can be found in the Google / Samsung Galaxy Nexus, a device that was released in Q4 2011.

http://www.androidauthority.com/amazon-kindle-fire-hd-7-inch-vs-google-nexus-7-113214/

galaxy-nexus-vs-nexus-7.jpg


Android Authority used the galaxy nexus as a benchmark comparison, saying it was the same chip and should perform the same. If that's the case, the fire HD gets obliterated here. For a tablet that released several months later, this is just bizarre. Any way you slice it, the Kindle HD comes off looking as very cut rate hardware with a terrible OS.
 

Reallink

Member
Does a Snapdragon 800 have to come with an Adreno 330 GPU, or is it possible to pair it with PowerVR's upcoming supposed 100+gflop Rogue?
 
iOS has had a better game selection for a long time. Sure they might make their way to the Android but that usually takes time - iOS store is always the first thing that is targeted.

Not to mention how unoptimized a number of Andriod games are.
This is why my first smart phone will have to be an iPhone. Just as an outside observer I notice what you're saying happens, the iOS is always the first focus.
 
This is what I was trying to point out this morning.

Amazon can't cut console prices anymore than they already are in this market. Not if they want to avoid losing hundreds of millions, i.e. the O.G. Xbox.

In terms of hardware quality, they can't come close. Nothing they've released so far (any of the kindles, kindle fires, etc) indicates their engineers are anywhere close to the level of HTC, Asus, Samsung, Apple, or Microsoft in the tablet space. Sony is just out of the question.

The android market is poorly suited to television style gaming with a controller. We've already seen that with Ouya. even if it wasn't, the amount of content on Xbox live and PSN dwarfs the android market several times over. The entirety of the gaming market on Google play in 2012 is less than a quarter of what Sony alone makes in a year from software.

Building a console to try and go up against the PS3 and 360 this late in the game isn't plausible, and building one to take out the Ps4/xbone is madness. It'll be targeted at a different audience. I'm curious to see where amazon goes with it.
All of the good points in your post is why I think something is amiss. Amazon surely knows about those issues, don't they? Maybe they have something up their sleeve.
 
The android market is poorly suited to television style gaming with a controller. We've already seen that with Ouya.

Eh, I dunno about that. Most of Ouya's problems were with its execution. Maybe an Android console is a bad idea but I don't think the Ouya is a good barometer for that.

Something like an Ouya but with the backing of an established company like Amazon could be decent. Maybe not industry-changing, but it could be a good secondary console / streaming device for a lot of people.
 
"Best time" to get into console development is when the market is shrinking (which stats says it is) and increased development cost and competition are quickly making the entire industry hold it's collective breaths and hope "next gen will fix everything!" is true and not just some mantra that a CEO keeps repeating in an attempt to make themselves feel better.



What I'm saying is, if Amazon IS interested, it'll be at least a couple years till we'd see anything from it. Amazon is a lot of things, but it's not dumb with it's money... it'll sit back for a couple years to see how next gen is shaping up before truely committing anything.
 
All of the good points in your post is why I think something is amiss. Amazon surely knows about those issues, don't they? Maybe they have something up their sleeve.
What they have up their sleeve is Amazon Instant Video. Sure, that's available on all sorts of hardware already, but on those devices AIV is one among many, next to Netflix, Hulu, Lovefilm, Crackle, etc. On an Amazon box it will be front and center, with the competitors pushed to a ghetto (or maybe even totally absent). Ouya et al. are low-cost game consoles, whereas the Amazon thing will be a low-cost STB. Gaming is a bullet point, not the selling point.
 
I love Amazon....

I prefer Nexus over Kindle....

I don't know what to think. I'm excited and reminded of the Ouya at the same time. >.>
 
What they have up their sleeve is Amazon Instant Video. Sure, that's available on all sorts of hardware already, but on those devices AIV is one among many, next to Netflix, Hulu, Lovefilm, Crackle, etc.

Lovefilm is Amazon's european equivalent of AIV. Or the streaming side of it is anyway, I don't understand this stuff.
 

Game Guru

Member
This is what I was trying to point out this morning.

Amazon can't cut console prices anymore than they already are in this market. Not if they want to avoid losing hundreds of millions, i.e. the O.G. Xbox.

In terms of hardware quality, they can't come close. Nothing they've released so far (any of the kindles, kindle fires, etc) indicates their engineers are anywhere close to the level of HTC, Asus, Samsung, Apple, or Microsoft in the tablet space. Sony is just out of the question.

The android market is poorly suited to television style gaming with a controller. We've already seen that with Ouya. even if it wasn't, the amount of content on Xbox live and PSN dwarfs the android market several times over. The entirety of the gaming market on Google play in 2012 is less than a quarter of what Sony alone makes in a year from software.

Building a console to try and go up against the PS3 and 360 this late in the game isn't plausible, and building one to take out the Ps4/xbone is madness. It'll be targeted at a different audience. I'm curious to see where amazon goes with it.

I'm going to have to call you out on this... the PS4 and Xbox One lack backwards compatibility with PS3 and Xbox 360, so assuming that Amazon makes the games on their Appstore playable on their console, it already has more content than PS4 and Xbox One will have at launch.

As far as Ouya's lack of success goes, I believe it to be more due to Ouya requiring its own store rather than using Google's or Amazon's, or even having the backing of a major digital gaming distributor like Valve. I have more hope for Madcatz and their MOJO than for Ouya since that will use the Google Play store.
 
I missed "original". my apologies. That one is older than the Kindle HD- but still has a better processor. 1.2GHZ tegra 3 quad core to 1.2GHZ dual core.



http://www.androidauthority.com/amazon-kindle-fire-hd-7-inch-vs-google-nexus-7-113214/

galaxy-nexus-vs-nexus-7.jpg


Android Authority used the galaxy nexus as a benchmark comparison, saying it was the same chip and should perform the same. If that's the case, the fire HD gets obliterated here. For a tablet that released several months later, this is just bizarre. Any way you slice it, the Kindle HD comes off looking as very cut rate hardware with a terrible OS.

Even then, I was only referring to build quality. The people I quoted said the Kindle Fire HD didn't have good build quality, which I don't agree with.
 

Somnid

Member
This is what I was trying to point out this morning.

Amazon can't cut console prices anymore than they already are in this market. Not if they want to avoid losing hundreds of millions, i.e. the O.G. Xbox.

In terms of hardware quality, they can't come close. Nothing they've released so far (any of the kindles, kindle fires, etc) indicates their engineers are anywhere close to the level of HTC, Asus, Samsung, Apple, or Microsoft in the tablet space. Sony is just out of the question.

The android market is poorly suited to television style gaming with a controller. We've already seen that with Ouya. even if it wasn't, the amount of content on Xbox live and PSN dwarfs the android market several times over. The entirety of the gaming market on Google play in 2012 is less than a quarter of what Sony alone makes in a year from software.

Building a console to try and go up against the PS3 and 360 this late in the game isn't plausible, and building one to take out the Ps4/xbone is madness. It'll be targeted at a different audience. I'm curious to see where amazon goes with it.

I suppose some correction and clarifications are in order. First off is that Amazon runs like a startup, they make enormous income and spend it all, they have no problems being lossy to wedge themselves in and disrupt huge businesses run by companies many times larger (and right now they are huge). It's simply not a problem.

I'm not sure where your engineering comments stem from though but I can tell you you're wrong on that front. There were a lot of things to like about the Kindle Fire from a hardware perspective from better screen with gorilla glass, to speakers with good drivers to the wifi features that you still don't see in the highest end hardware today in a package that was smaller than what was available at the time. This says nothing of the eReader Kindle line which was definitively better than competition. What you could say is that the OMAP 4660 was not up to the Tegra 3 but that's a sourcing issue and even now the word on the street is the next ones are packing S800s which would be a full generation above the competition. The quality of their engineering was never a question and Lab 126 has seen literally exponential growth over the past couple years. What you might be confusing it with is productivity software which is not their forte and why Google comes out looking more appealing but then again Sony is in the same boat.

The amount of content on PSN and XBM doesn't even come close to mobile or Amazon's variant. It's literally and order of magnitude difference. So your argument might be that the quality is better. That could be true depending on who you talk to but of course the interesting point is that they are recruiting devs which indicates entails some exclusivity and stronger efforts something Ouya couldn't because they had no money and not clout.

But issues aside overall I don't disagree. Microsoft's target is likely not Amazon's. Amazon is probably just as concerned about selling videos as much as they are games. They probably aren't going high end because it's not enough to matter. But a high-end mobile chip can make graphics appealing enough and coupled with some exclusives and a lot price there can definitely be something there.
 
I'm going to have to call you out on this... the PS4 and Xbox One lack backwards compatibility with PS3 and Xbox 360, so assuming that Amazon makes the games on their Appstore playable on their console, it already has more content than PS4 and Xbox One will have at launch.

feel free to call me out all you like. Enjoy the discussion.

Here's where the argument has problems. The PS360 aren't going to be pulled from shelves when the PS4/Xbone launch. They're going to continue to sell for at least two years with cross gen games- per the quotes of several developers.

The Amazon box being an android based console isn't going to be competing with the PS4 and Xbox One. Their capabilities are simply way, way beyond that of anything on the android market, and there isn't an ARM processor that comes close to what they're using horsepower wise.

COULD Amazon launch a bleeding edge console with capabilities beyond that of the market leaders? in theory. But that's never been their MO. The Kindle Fire aims at the very low end of the android market. It's not competing with the samsung galaxy tab, Asus Transformer Prime, or Apple Ipad. Those things destroy it. It's very unlikely Amazon is going to go head to head with the PS4 for the same reason.

In addition, there's a gameinformer article that quotes amazon as saying they're going to be relying largely on "existing titles" and apps, so this again puts it out of contention with the PS4 and Xbox one.

It's going to be aiming at the PS360, or lower. That's about where current ARM SOC's tend to land, and ARM is what they'd have to use for compatibility. buying up devs or not, they simply don't have the capacity to supply enough first party titles for a completely new class of hardware out of sync with the rest of the android market.

As far as Ouya's lack of success goes, I believe it to be more due to Ouya requiring its own store rather than using Google's or Amazon's, or even having the backing of a major digital gaming distributor like Valve. I have more hope for Madcatz and their MOJO than for Ouya since that will use the Google Play store.

I didn't just speak of Ouya's lack of success- that's due to many reasons, not just the hardware. A consistent problem with Ouya reviews has been that many games on the android market were designed for cellphone or small tablet sized screens, and look and perform absolutely awful when blown up on a 50 inch screen. Again, This amazon console is going to be relying a lot on these apps that already exist. They're a poor fit for a console meant to connect to a TV 24/7, but a great fit for a device like the Shield.
 

CoG

Member
Next I time I should avoid buying gadgets from electronic noobies like Amazon. They will get annihilated if they come into the console market.

Not taking a side either way but people said the same thing about Microsoft when they announced the Xbox.
 

Reallink

Member
Snapdragon line refers o the whole ship set, so, yeah.

Ah I see, didn't realize the GPU's were integrated. Always thought Adreno was a stand alone company like Nvidia or AMD, but I guess it's just Qualcomm's Geforce or Radeon branding. Do any Android chipset makers use PowerVR?
 
I suppose some correction and clarifications are in order. First off is that Amazon runs like a startup, they make enormous income and spend it all, they have no problems being lossy to wedge themselves in and disrupt huge businesses run by companies many times larger (and right now they are huge). It's simply not a problem.

Thanks for the response. Amazon may run like a startup, but they're still a business. They make about the same amount of money (but far less profit) than microsoft does. I think you overestimate their ability or willingness to "disrupt" existing businesses. Let me give you some examples.

The kindle e-reader was successful largely because of amazon's ecosystem and marketing. in terms of pricing and capabilities, it wasn't any cheaper or well built than the nook, which was built by barnes and noble. Barnes and Noble isn't anywhere NEAR the class of Sony or Microsoft.

If we look at the kindle fire and kindle fire HD, neither one of these devices is any better than competing tablets in the same class. The Nexus 7, The Asus Memo, The nook HD, and the Galaxy Tab 7.0 are all equivalent in price and feature set. Why isn't amazon simply "disrupting" them? blowing them out? Hell, why isn't google? or samsung? Both of these could easily embarass amazon if they chose to. The answer is the same- there's a limit at which you can manufacture and sell these things before it ceases to make sense, even for a company as ambitious as amazon, or one that sitting on a metric pile of cash like google is.

I'm not sure where your engineering comments stem from though but I can tell you you're wrong on that front. There were a lot of things to like about the Kindle Fire from a hardware perspective from better screen with gorilla glass, to speakers with good drivers to the wifi features that you still don't see in the highest end hardware today in a package that was smaller than what was available at the time.

I already posted comments regarding the kindle fire HD versus the older version of the nexus 7 and the newer version of the nexus 7. it's worse than both. And asus manufactured both of those. Sony does nothing but hardware engineering, and has top class hardware in literally every field you can think of. Amazon simply doesn't. There's no way around that. Sony and Microsoft also have a literal army of first and third party developers that have done nothing but program for the PS360 for 7 years now and know the platform inside and out. That's not the case with whatever amazon has cooked up. They're behind the 8 ball in terms of hardware and software engineering. this isn't debatable- unless you feel Amazon has the equivalent of ICE team ready to go somewhere.

The amount of content on PSN and XBM doesn't even come close to mobile or Amazon's variant. It's literally and order of magnitude difference.

dead wrong. Sony alone makes 4 times as much revenue from their ecosystem as all games on google play combined. In terms of volume, there are somewhere around 800 PS3 games available, and another 600-700 games specific to PSN, PS1, or PS2 classics released that are available for download...and more coming every day. None of these are cheap clones or low budget trash that clogs the android market, but they're just as low cost. Some of these things can be had for as low as 2 or 3 dollars. There's even a chunk of high quality Free to Play games like DCUO. Throw Xbox live in there and it's a curbstomp.

But issues aside overall I don't disagree. Microsoft's target is likely not Amazon's. Amazon is probably just as concerned about selling videos as much as they are games. They probably aren't going high end because it's not enough to matter. But a high-end mobile chip can make graphics appealing enough and coupled with some exclusives and a lot price there can definitely be something there.

a high end mobile chip is still leagues below the PS360 in terms of pure hardware performance, and even farther when you consider there are hundreds of devs that have 7+ years of experience with the platform. You are not getting something like GT6 or TLOU out of mobile hardware no matter how high end it is.
 

SPDIF

Member
Amazon dwarfs Sony and MS?

Sony revenue: US$ 72.349 billion
MS revenue: US$ 77.85 billion

Amazon revenue: US$ 61.09 billion

If you're going to compare companies then revenue is probably the worst way to do it. Who cares if you can generate $100 billion a year if you have costs of $102 billion.

A slightly better way would be to compare actual profits:

3qO5.png
 

Reallink

Member
If you're going to compare companies then revenue is probably the worse way to do it. Who cares if you can generate $100 billion a year if you have costs of $102 billion.

A slightly better way would be to compare actual profits:

3qO5.png

Did you create that graph yourself SPDIF or is there a site that will generate profit charts like that?
 
If you're going to compare companies then revenue is probably the worse way to do it. Who cares if you can generate $100 billion a year if you have costs of $102 billion.

A slightly better way would be to compare actual profits:

3qO5.png
What's interesting here is that Amazon operates with 0 net profit. So all of its value is really in its stock.
 

Game Guru

Member
feel free to call me out all you like. Enjoy the discussion.

Here's where the argument has problems. The PS360 aren't going to be pulled from shelves when the PS4/Xbone launch. They're going to continue to sell for at least two years with cross gen games- per the quotes of several developers.

The Amazon box being an android based console isn't going to be competing with the PS4 and Xbox One. Their capabilities are simply way, way beyond that of anything on the android market, and there isn't an ARM processor that comes close to what they're using horsepower wise.

COULD Amazon launch a bleeding edge console with capabilities beyond that of the market leaders? in theory. But that's never been their MO. The Kindle Fire aims at the very low end of the android market. It's not competing with the samsung galaxy tab, Asus Transformer Prime, or Apple Ipad. Those things destroy it. It's very unlikely Amazon is going to go head to head with the PS4 for the same reason.

In addition, there's a gameinformer article that quotes amazon as saying they're going to be relying largely on "existing titles" and apps, so this again puts it out of contention with the PS4 and Xbox one.

It's going to be aiming at the PS360, or lower. That's about where current ARM SOC's tend to land, and ARM is what they'd have to use for compatibility. buying up devs or not, they simply don't have the capacity to supply enough first party titles for a completely new class of hardware out of sync with the rest of the android market.

And? I never said that Amazon was going to go with the same power as the PS4 and Xbox One. I just said that the marketplaces on the PS4 and Xbox One will have less content in general. In addition, the fact that PS4 and Xbox One will not be able to play PS3 or Xbox 360 digital games is going to hurt digital sales for both sets of systems since they've shown that digital content may not carry over. For all of the problems with mobile, at least they've shown to be willing to ensure most apps can play on future devices.

I didn't just speak of Ouya's lack of success- that's due to many reasons, not just the hardware. A consistent problem with Ouya reviews has been that many games on the android market were designed for cellphone or small tablet sized screens, and look and perform absolutely awful when blown up on a 50 inch screen. Again, This amazon console is going to be relying a lot on these apps that already exist. They're a poor fit for a console meant to connect to a TV 24/7, but a great fit for a device like the Shield.

Don't most of the bad reviews of the Ouya state that Ouya's problem is with its controller and OS being badly built, and nothing to do with the Ouya's apps? That's all I've seen from my research. I've never even seen a review that complains about the games not looking good when on a TV. Yeah, the games don't look as good as what one can get with the future consoles, but that's just the difference between $99 hardware and $399 hardware. The games don't look worse than indie games on current consoles.
 
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