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[Graphics Horse]

oh, that. a couple of things:

1.) Those two are known/widely assumed to be selling for way more than they should be. The PS3 in particular has undergone a significant cost reduction and redesign lately, but the price actually went up. They will price drop that soon- likely when the PS4 launches, but right now the price on it is fairly high and has pretty big margins on it.

2.) Those two platforms are coming to the end of their lifespans, and the market is pretty much saturated at their current price points. Sony and Microsoft won't be relying on new sales of them as revenue drivers. They'll still sell units here and there over the next couple of years, but the vast amount of software sales are going to be coming from people who already own units.

I think it's fair to say that Amazon can sell at a lower margin than Sony is currently doing. PS3 will continue to be sold for the next couple of years at least and there's nothing wrong with competing against that rather than a new top end device.

Assuming it's based on an arm/tablet model, the model should involve higher performance versions being released every 1 or 2 years.

Amazon's next tablet is thought to be announced/released in a month or so, if the console rumour is true it'll probably be announced at the same event, although it's kind of weird to imagine a console launching the same way.

 

[Busty]

Angry birds is a poor fit for a controller based console. incidentally, you may be interested to know angry birds already exists on PS360.

My friend the smug/patronising plug in you are using for Chrome is turned up WAY too high.

You might want to adjust it down a little if you expect people to engage in debate with you.

 

[MMaRsu]

A usa box? No amazon here..

 

[xXxDieselxXx]

I present you AmazONE

 

[Manmademan]

Amazon's console to the PS4 will be what the Kindle Fire is to the iPad.

amazon's console won't be competing with the PS4. The gameinformer article says it will be running "existing software", meaning It'll be competing with the PS3 and 360...and good luck with that one.

Since it's android based, I'm thinking this is going to turn out a lot like the Nvidia Shield, minus the ability to stream PC games.

 

[ChorusLindarr]

I would imagine it coming in at just above or equal with the WiiU in terms of performance, however possibly a little more performant in terms of the CPU.

Will likely be an APU design. ARM and PowerVR, or Tegra based.

Would do great things for Android as a gaming platform.

Amazon will still have a heck of a lot of catch-up to play though if their intention is to go head-to-head with Sony & MS.

 

[Sulik2]

This is crazy if its true. Amazon would be in a really interesting place in the console market because of their retail presence and name. If its an Ouya by Amazon, not interested, if it has a decent amount of power could be interesting.

 

[Manmademan]

My friend the smug/patronising plug in you are using for Chrome is turned up WAY too high.

You might want to adjust it down a little if you expect people to engage in debate with you.

instead of being sensitive and offended, why not address my point?

Angry birds exists already on PS360. It's a bad fit for the platform, doesn't really sell much.

This new platform is designed to work with a controller. Angry birds and similar time wasters are designed around touch based interfaces. Again- bad fit for the console/tv model, as we've seen with OUYA. most of these existing games simply do not work well.

Finally, it's blindingly obvious that cheap android games sell as well as they do, because they're inexpensive time wasters that people can buy and use on platforms (handhelds, tablets) that they already own and carry with them all the time. A console does not have that benefit. the audience is different.

The appeal of playing angry birds on the train or waiting in line is one thing. Buying a new platform to play it on the TV in your living room is a different story.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

not really, no. Taking a loss is one thing, but there are limits. price things too low and you run afoul of anti dumping laws. Amazon cannot significantly undercut products that are already sold at zero profit margin due to legal issues. The kindle isn't really any cheaper than the nook, kobo, etc. The kindle fire isn't any cheaper than a nexus 7. Amazon cannot make a product comparable to a PS4 or PS3 that's cheaper.

Anti-dumping laws? I'm not talking about giving them away, just taking a loss on each unit. It's assumed that PS4 and XboxOne will be profitable on day 1, Amazon could release something and take a $50 loss. Nothing illegal about that, they're offering a new product and trying to compete and get a foothold in the market, this is done all the time.

 

[Frodo]

Good thing is amazon needs no reliance on retailers...

Hmmmm..... interesting.

 

[Persona86]

Uncertainty. I may as well wait to see which console offers the multiplatform and exclusive options I desire before jumping headfirst into the next-gen. I was pretty positive that console would be the PS4, but who knows now.

Ah I see now.

Just buy the console with the games you like when the time is right for you. I might end up buying all of them eventually over the next several years lol.

 

[Manmademan]

Anti-dumping laws? I'm not talking about giving them away, just taking a loss on each unit. It's assumed that PS4 and XboxOne will be profitable on day 1, Amazon could release something and take a $50 loss. Nothing illegal about that, they're offering a new product and trying to compete and get a foothold in the market, this is done all the time.

"profitable" means software and accessory sales along with the hardware. It's extremely unusual for any profit margin to be built into console hardware sales at launch. The only one I can think of is the 3D0, and everyone knows how that went.

But let's look at this further- microsoft has tons of money. plenty in the bank. Why didn't they ever just price the 360 "well below" cost to sell it on shelves? Because it doesn't make sense. Amazon intends to make their money back by users buying software and subscribing to services. Sell for $50 below cost to manufacture, and you need to sell $50 worth of software to break even, otherwise you dig a larger and larger hole for yourself the more units you sell.

Again, amazon does not do this with the hardware they already have on the market. The Kindle Fire is sold at the same price point as the nexus 7. The kindle has always been sold at about the same price point as the nook. Could amazon take a larger loss than Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft to move units? possibly, but not significantly.

 

[Marvel]

I wonder what they'll call it...

 

[KiNeSiS]

Some people hate Sony, some people hate Microsoft, some people hate Nintendo, some people hate Apple...

But everyone loves Amazon.

I dislike Amazon I hate waiting days when I can go to a store get it sameday with no extra cost for a games release date.
Kmart instant gratification. Amazon delayed gratification unless you pay a membership to amazon prime, thanks but, no thanks!

 

[Ville Pukema]

Where is Amazon not known?

Most of europe.

 

[Somnid]

For those that keep an eye on Amazon (which seems to only be me), this isn't so surprising. Amazon does want to move more into the game space and has been for some time. However, they need things to upset some of the existing players (this includes Google and Apple). This also gives them a door for all their digital stuff.

From a technical perspective there's really 2 routes I think they'd actually go: Linux-based console like Steambox or Android based console like Ouya. I would seriously doubt they'll build from scratch like the current 3 do. I also doubt it'll have much flair as far as features (controllers and what-not) but they'd do yearly revisions. I think Android makes more sense as it would plug into the Amazon App store and cost less overall. High-end ARM chips can product pretty graphics if you put the time into it. I think they'd want it cheap enough for people to get it as a media player.

 

[DeviantBoi]

The Ouya killer?

 

[Niwa]

The Ouya killer?

How do you kill something that's already dead?

 

[Opus Angelorum]

How do you kill something that's already dead?

Hire Buffy.

 

[Graphics Horse]

From a technical perspective there's really 2 routes I think they'd actually go: Linux-based console like Steambox or Android based console like Ouya

Well it could use the x86 version of android, but I doubt it. The 'immediate library' rumour guarantees it'll support Android/kindle games if true.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Cautiously optimistic.

 

[Alej]

Most of europe.

Lol. What?

 

[Captain Tuttle]

"profitable" means software and accessory sales along with the hardware. It's extremely unusual for any profit margin to be built into console hardware sales at launch. The only one I can think of is the 3D0, and everyone knows how that went.

But let's look at this further- microsoft has tons of money. plenty in the bank. Why didn't they ever just price the 360 "well below" cost to sell it on shelves?

They did with the original Xbox to break into the market.

 

[RPGCrazied]

This sounds weird. I think it'll be another indie box, or something like OnLive. I really can't see them releasing a powerful system like Sony and Microsoft is doing.

 

[Rubik8]

Eh, I'll believe it when I see it.

An actual fourth competitor could be interesting, though...

Don't you mean third? Oh, you're counting Nintendo. I see what you did there.

 

[Nirolak]

I think some of you are taking core oriented a bit too literally.

It would be more about presenting Android games in the way core gamers might be more interested in playing them (TV, controller, shining a light on products like XCOM, and better performance since presumably this thing is plugged into a wall socket allowing them to set the internal parts pretty high).

 

[Graphics Horse]

I think some of you are taking core oriented a bit too literally.

That's hard to do when the word seems to mean a different thing to each person.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Please don't be Android.

 

[jordan0386]

There are not enough developers support 4 or 5 core consoles.

I dont see Ubisoft or EA spending that much money.

 

[Nirolak]

That's hard to do when the word seems to mean a different thing to each person.

Given it is an Android console though I think we can fairly safely rule out some things though like multi-teraflop performance unless they're really taking this in an unexpected direction.

 

[Totao]

ehhh.......I'm still more interested in seeing what Apple & Google are gonna do.

Yup!! This are my same feelings!!! Amazon did a poor job with the kindle fire, specially with the store!!! Lets see what happens!!

 

[Somnid]

Well it could use the x86 version of android, but I doubt it. The 'immediate library' rumour guarantees it'll support Android/kindle games if true.

They have x86 images of the Kindle Fire line for devs. That's not an issue.

 

[Manmademan]

They did with the original Xbox to break into the market.

no they didn't. the Xbox launched at $300- $100 more than the GC, and equal to or $50 more than the PS2 at the time. (I forget exactly when the PS2 dropped to $249).
per unit sold- with the intent that software sales would cause them to break even. They were the most expensive at retail and stayed that way.

Losses per unit were on par with the xbox 360. One of these was VERY profitable, one of these was a massive loss. Why?

They lost their shirts because software sales were terrible, and they didn't have the ability to reduce cost of production as well as Sony did as the generation went on. Launch consoles (at least from Sony and MS..nintendo's strategy was different) generally lose a ton up front, and reduce cost of production as the generation goes on. MS couldn't do that with the original Xbox, since their contract with Nvidia was badly written- they kept racking up launch losses throughout the gen. No one in their right mind, including Amazon, is going to repeat that.

The PS2,3, and presumably 4 use the same business model. Amazon is competing with consoles that are ALREADY selling for hundreds less than cost to build up front, and making up the difference with software sales of $50-60 per title, and the occasional accessories like extra controllers, and subscription services like Live and PS+.

It is not possible to undercut these consoles by an additional $100-200, especially if your software sales are not $60 AAA titles, but $2 clones of angry birds.

 

[immortal-joe]

I welcome this with open arms, show me what you can.

 

[Graphics Horse]

They have x86 images of the Kindle Fire line for devs. That's not an issue.

Sure, I'm just saying I doubt it'll be x86 based, but it's a possibility.

 

[Snowden's Secret]

Is Amazon going to have first party game development?

It's just an OUYA otherwise, right?

 

[Manmademan]

Is Amazon going to have first party game development?

It's just an OUYA otherwise, right?

yes, and yes.

it appears amazon is hiring devs, so they will have some original content. Without that, they're depending on existing games on the amazon app store- which as we've seen with OUYA do not perform well on a television.

Even with devs of their own though, it will take a long time to catch up to Microsoft in terms of first party IP. You can forget about Nintendo or Sony.

 

[Draft]

Assuming the old razor and blade model still works for game consoles, Amazon could make bank if this were successful. No one undercuts blades like Amazon.

 

[Somnid]

Sure, I'm just saying I doubt it'll be x86 based, but it's a possibility.

I'd agree simply because they probably have deals for large volumes of ARM chips for their Fire line.

 

[Tobor]

I'm not interested in another set top box. I have more than enough of those.

If it were an Nvidia Shield style handheld, I'd be interested.

 

[Courage]

And now I'm interested.

lol same. Might have to buy this if they give out free games a la Plus.

 

[thiscoldblack]

Amazon OUYA? No thanks.

 

[McLovin]

not really. consoles are ALREADY routinely sold either at cost, or even a loss (WiiU).
This isn't like competing with Apple where 30% of the retail cost is profit. Amazon can't really undercut Sony, Nintendo, or Microsoft to any significant extent with a similarly powered box.



Amazon doesn't have the hardware design chops to compete with Sony or Microsoft. period. The kindle fire doesn't stack up well at ALL vs. similar tablets from samsung, asus, apple, etc. It's cheap but that's the only benefit. Consoles have a different business model than tablets do though- none of the big three have any margin to speak of on the hardware. "cheap" isn't going to be a selling point.

I didn't mean cheap as in affordable. Its probably going to be cheap hardware. Probably closer to Ouya, but with more power. Or who knows maybe they will something mobile that you could plug into the tv. PS Vita style with that project Logan thing on it.

 

[tfur]

So the other big news is the Microsft poaching? Seems almost thread worthy.

Don leaves, executive producer of Quantum Break (sounds like a tv series) leaves... Do many see the writing on the wall for Xbone?

Also, the cloud wars.... I don't see amazon loosing to azure.

 

[shinobi602]

Interest piqued.

 

[Manmademan]

I didn't mean cheap as in affordable. Its probably going to be cheap hardware. Probably closer to Ouya, but with more power. Or who knows maybe they will something mobile that you could plug into the tv. PS Vita style with that project Logan thing on it.

We're actually on the same page. I think this is going to end up looking a LOT like the nvidia shield, and competing in the same market. Relatively high end android games as exclusive content, plus access to the rest of the market. Maybe TV-out capability somewhere as a bonus.

making a traditional console device (like Ouya) doesn't really make a lot of sense- since the PS3 and 360 have massive userbases, lots more software, higher quality software, at the same price points- and Sony and MS can price those things wherever they see fit, as they're no longer really revenue drivers. There's even an extremely cut rate PS3 out there that only uses flash memory and has no hard drive that Sony is no doubt making a mint on but has not chosen to bring over to the states yet.

Trying to compete with those two is a fool's errand, and trying to make a PS4 or Xbone equivalent isn't really financially feasible.

 

[Arkham]

I wonder what they'll call it...

The Amazon Spark.

 

[Bailers]

Amazon will still have a heck of a lot of catch-up to play though if their intention is to go head-to-head with Sony & MS.

If they are trying to compete with Sony and MS they're doing it wrong. Apple should be their target here, just like it was with the Fire.

 

[PSGames]

#gamechanger

How is a easily hackable amazon game console which is bound to be rife with piracy using Android's abysmal game library a #gamechanger ?

 

[Felix Lighter]

Are people comparing this device to an OUYA just on a hardware level or do people think that an Amazon led effort would end up in the same position? If you think it'll follow a similar path as the OUYA you are seriously underestimating Amazon's ability to reach consumers.