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Shots fired at Police during Dallas Police anti-violence protest (5 officers killed)

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N

Nephtis

Member
kame-sennin said:
No, racism is about the perpetuation of white supremacy. A black person can not engage in racism*** because they do not have the institutional power of white supremacy behind them. While Micah Johnson's actions were designed to attack a group of people beyond the ones he personally killed via fear and intimidation, these killings are not a part of a systematic violent oppression of whites because no such system exists.

The rebranding of anti-white rhetoric and violence by black radicals as "racism" is a right-wing tactic designed to dilute the meaning of the word. These killings were not hate crimes. They were not a part of a pattern of genocidal actions. They were 'just' murder. Perhaps terrorism.


***Johnson was no doubt prejudiced and discriminatory. But that's not the same as racism.
Click to expand...

I don't know if it's laughable or scary that you think the way you do.
 
rokkerkory

rokkerkory

Member
kame-sennin said:
No, racism is about the perpetuation of white supremacy. A black person can not engage in racism*** because they do not have the institutional power of white supremacy behind them. While Micah Johnson's actions were designed to attack a group of people beyond the ones he personally killed via fear and intimidation, these killings are not a part of a systematic violent oppression of whites because no such system exists.

The rebranding of anti-white rhetoric and violence by black radicals as "racism" is a right-wing tactic designed to dilute the meaning of the word. These killings were not hate crimes. They were not a part of a pattern of genocidal actions. They were 'just' murder. Perhaps terrorism.


***Johnson was no doubt prejudiced and discriminatory. But that's not the same as racism.
Click to expand...
What the hell did i just read
 
N

NotTheGuyYouKill

Member
kame-sennin said:
No, racism is about the perpetuation of white supremacy. A black person can not engage in racism*** because they do not have the institutional power of white supremacy behind them. While Micah Johnson's actions were designed to attack a group of people beyond the ones he personally killed via fear and intimidation, these killings are not a part of a systematic violent oppression of whites because no such system exists.

The rebranding of anti-white rhetoric and violence by black radicals as "racism" is a right-wing tactic designed to dilute the meaning of the word. These killings were not hate crimes. They were not a part of a pattern of genocidal actions. They were 'just' murder. Perhaps terrorism.


***Johnson was no doubt prejudiced and discriminatory. But that's not the same as racism.
Click to expand...

No, it's pretty clearly a hate crime and racist in nature. You can jump through all the mental gymnastics that you want to, but it is what it is.
 
C

Cagey

Banned
The need to redefine or, as is sometimes argued, reclaim the word racism to define it so narrowly as to prevent calling racist minority actions racist, somehow finding solace in the semantics of merely labeling them bigoted or prejudice, is such a misguided (at best) effort.

At worst, depending on the person's motivations for making the argument, it's a shameful dishonesty to downplay racist acts.

Should we redefine/reclaim democracy next? "Direct democracy" is actual democracy, damnit. Everything else is a representative form of government, sure, but it's not democracy.
 
C

Condom

Member
kame-sennin said:
No, racism is about the perpetuation of white supremacy. A black person can not engage in racism*** because they do not have the institutional power of white supremacy behind them. While Micah Johnson's actions were designed to attack a group of people beyond the ones he personally killed via fear and intimidation, these killings are not a part of a systematic violent oppression of whites because no such system exists.

The rebranding of anti-white rhetoric and violence by black radicals as "racism" is a right-wing tactic designed to dilute the meaning of the word. These killings were not hate crimes. They were not a part of a pattern of genocidal actions. They were 'just' murder. Perhaps terrorism.


***Johnson was no doubt prejudiced and discriminatory. But that's not the same as racism.
Click to expand...
We have a word for what you described and that is institutional racism. Normal racism still exists.
 
C

Cotton McKnight

Member
kame-sennin said:
No, racism is about the perpetuation of white supremacy. A black person can not engage in racism*** because they do not have the institutional power of white supremacy behind them. While Micah Johnson's actions were designed to attack a group of people beyond the ones he personally killed via fear and intimidation, these killings are not a part of a systematic violent oppression of whites because no such system exists.

The rebranding of anti-white rhetoric and violence by black radicals as "racism" is a right-wing tactic designed to dilute the meaning of the word. These killings were not hate crimes. They were not a part of a pattern of genocidal actions. They were 'just' murder. Perhaps terrorism.


***Johnson was no doubt prejudiced and discriminatory. But that's not the same as racism.
Click to expand...

I was with listening to you, until you decide to define basic racism the way that backs your opinion (or as Condom mentioned, institutional racism). Or next time try saying "in my opinion" before you give that definition.

A troubled guy murdered people of a group, then members of that group murdered him right back. Sad stuff...
 
T

TheSchwab_7

Member
No one has learned anything from history. This shit will only get worse when Trump is elected and starts more racial tensions with Latinos and religious tensions with Muslims. We are all the victims of fear mongering. NRA is printing money now because everyone is afraid and buying guns to keep themselves safe, which only adds more to the problem.

I think it was stunning earlier to hear the New Mexico police officer (who was black) mention that when he wasn't on duty he was afraid of the police.

I asked my fiancee' this. What is the first thing or response you have when you see a police officer? Fear. Fear of not doing the right thing. It could be speeding, not using a blinker, whatever. We are afraid of the police. The people who are supposed to protect us. Police brutality and injustice occurs so much now that it is not surprising at all when officers get off for killing or beating others. No longer are police viewed as neighborhood friendly, they are viewed as using excess force when "threatened".

Police need someone or something to police them. No more probation. No more paid without leave. Put them on trial and send them to jail if the evidence backs it up. The problem starts at the top.

I think being an officer is an incredibly difficult job and mourn the losses of those in Dallas. But if the police departments around the nation don't lead the way in reform and penalizing their own and admitting mistakes, then things will only get worse.
 
J

Jumplion

Member
The definition of racism that kame-sennin is talking about is the more standard, academic definition of racism that involves systems of power and direct oppression utilizing those systems.

The layman definition of racism, sure, can include racism against white people, but the mechanics and systems of racism are complex and interwoven into our societies and cultures throughout history where one must consider the disproportionate oppression of specific people compared to others (I.E. black and white people)

That, at least to me, is what's causing confusion here.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
TheSchwab_7 said:
I think being an officer is an incredibly difficult job and mourn the losses of those in Dallas. But if the police departments around the nation don't lead the way in reform and penalizing their own and admitting mistakes, then things will only get worse.
Click to expand...

What's ultimately the most frustrating is this specific police department has put the effort forth, and was making progress.
 
P

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Jumplion said:
The definition of racism that kame-sennin is talking about is the more standard, academic definition of racism that involves systems of power and direct oppression utilizing those systems.

The layman definition of racism, sure, can include racism against white people, but the mechanics and systems of racism are complex and interwoven into our societies and cultures throughout history where one must consider the disproportionate oppression of specific people compared to others (I.E. black and white people)

That, at least to me, is what's causing confusion here.
Click to expand...

No, racism is not exclusively institutional, and equating institutional racism with all racism is asinine and not at all "standard" or academic.
 
C

C4Lukins

Junior Member
It was cool driving into Uptown and Downtown Dallas, all the buildings that can change colors are blue. The famous green building is blue, the ball is blue, the Omni is blue, and a dozen less famous buildings are blue.
 
G

Gleethor

Member
Cagey said:
The need to redefine or, as is sometimes argued, reclaim the word racism to define it so narrowly as to prevent calling racist minority actions racist, somehow finding solace in the semantics of merely labeling them bigoted or prejudice, is such a misguided (at best) effort.

At worst, depending on the person's motivations for making the argument, it's a shameful dishonesty to downplay racist acts.

Should we redefine/reclaim democracy next? "Direct democracy" is actual democracy, damnit. Everything else is a representative form of government, sure, but it's not democracy.
Click to expand...

Thank you.
 
J

Jumplion

Member
EleventhHourSuperpower said:
No, racism is not exclusively institutional, and equating institutional racism with all racism is asinine and not at all "standard" or academic.
Click to expand...

What racism is not institutional, at least to some extent? Genuinely asking, not quite sure I understand what you mean with that statement. People and social groups are products of our institutions, and sure there can be individual cases of prejudice and hatred but it matters what institution backs up that prejudice.

At the very least, I understand where the original poster is coming from.
 
B

Barzul

Member
TheSchwab_7 said:
No one has learned anything from history. This shit will only get worse when Trump is elected and starts more racial tensions with Latinos and religious tensions with Muslims. We are all the victims of fear mongering. NRA is printing money now because everyone is afraid and buying guns to keep themselves safe, which only adds more to the problem.

I think it was stunning earlier to hear the New Mexico police officer (who was black) mention that when he wasn't on duty he was afraid of the police.

I asked my fiancee' this. What is the first thing or response you have when you see a police officer? Fear. Fear of not doing the right thing. It could be speeding, not using a blinker, whatever. We are afraid of the police. The people who are supposed to protect us. Police brutality and injustice occurs so much now that it is not surprising at all when officers get off for killing or beating others. No longer are police viewed as neighborhood friendly, they are viewed as using excess force when "threatened".

Police need someone or something to police them. No more probation. No more paid without leave. Put them on trial and send them to jail if the evidence backs it up. The problem starts at the top.

I think being an officer is an incredibly difficult job and mourn the losses of those in Dallas. But if the police departments around the nation don't lead the way in reform and penalizing their own and admitting mistakes, then things will only get worse.
Click to expand...
Yeah man it's all true. I do everything to avoid encounters with the police and that if I am ill opportuned to have one I survive it. I don't even leave my wallet in my back pocket anymore while driving so that if I'm pulled over I don't have to be seen reaching for something. It remains in plain sight. I shouldn't have to live with this kind of hyper awareness and fear of police interaction. But I must, I don't want to be a hashtag. Sounds ridiculous but all it takes is an encounter with a trigger happy officer and that really could be it.
 
V

Vicetrailia

Member
Ironically Supporting Fascism Is Cool Bro said:
"Racism" is a much more general term than what I'm proposing. Racism could mean black against white. It could mean American against Asian. It could mean Russian against Brazilian. "Racism" is a very broad blanket to cast. I'm talking *specifically* about a possible instinctive bias against genetically acquired dark skin. I mean, watching a youtube video about morality is great and the video makes some fine points, but it has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm talking about. There's plenty of empirical evidence to show that dark skinned people are looked down upon across a wide spectrum of societies that have a mix of dark and light skinned people, so it stands to reason to me that there could be something there.

I'm not saying that makes it ok or anything, but I think if we desire progress it's worth keeping our mind open to all the possibilities. You can't solve something you dont' understand.
Click to expand...

Try to Google what I said in quotes. I got you, you'll find something interesting.
 
C

Chuckl3s

Member
Does it feel like since the deaths of the five officers that the media is only focusing on that? I really want to know whats happening with the incidents that caused this.
 
Z

Zornack

Member
Jumplion said:
The definition of racism that kame-sennin is talking about is the more standard, academic definition of racism that involves systems of power and direct oppression utilizing those systems.

The layman definition of racism, sure, can include racism against white people, but the mechanics and systems of racism are complex and interwoven into our societies and cultures throughout history where one must consider the disproportionate oppression of specific people compared to others (I.E. black and white people)

That, at least to me, is what's causing confusion here.
Click to expand...

There's no confusion here. One person is using a word incorrectly and is being ridiculed for it.
 
V

VanCityGamer

Member
TheSchwab_7 said:
No one has learned anything from history. This shit will only get worse when Trump is elected and starts more racial tensions with Latinos and religious tensions with Muslims. We are all the victims of fear mongering. NRA is printing money now because everyone is afraid and buying guns to keep themselves safe, which only adds more to the problem.
Click to expand...

There is no way Trump is going to be elected.
 
J

James

Member
EleventhHourSuperpower said:
No, racism is not exclusively institutional, and equating institutional racism with all racism is asinine and not at all "standard" or academic.
Click to expand...

I will have to agree with him here. In academia the word racism is used more like how the average person would use the term institutionalized racism. For the sake of discussion though, using 'racism' as a catch all is appropriate, so arguing over what is or isn't racism is a waste of time. If one needs to be specific then just use the term institutionalized racism.
 
C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
Cagey said:
The need to redefine or, as is sometimes argued, reclaim the word racism to define it so narrowly as to prevent calling racist minority actions racist, somehow finding solace in the semantics of merely labeling them bigoted or prejudice, is such a misguided (at best) effort.

At worst, depending on the person's motivations for making the argument, it's a shameful dishonesty to downplay racist acts.

Should we redefine/reclaim democracy next? "Direct democracy" is actual democracy, damnit. Everything else is a representative form of government, sure, but it's not democracy.
Click to expand...

Yep.
 
J

Jumplion

Member
James said:
I will have to agree with him here. In academia the word racism is used more like how the average person would use the term institutionalized racism. For the sake of discussion though, using 'racism' as a catch all is appropriate, so arguing over what is or isn't racism is a waste of time. If one needs to be specific then just use the term institutionalized racism.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, whether or not we classify the shooter's actions/reasons as "racist" is a bit irrelevant. What is relevant, I think, is why he developed that thinking in the first place, and make no mistake everyone was expecting something to happen at one of these rallies at some point for so long.
 
R

rezn0r

Member
Fuck me I left for a few hours, hit refresh, and people are trying to dictionary define the word racism? Can't everyone just agree that it blows ass if people die for no reason?
 
H

Heavy_D206

Member
rezn0r said:
Fuck me I left for a few hours, hit refresh, and people are trying to dictionary define the word racism? Can't everyone just agree that it blows ass if people die for no reason?
Click to expand...

Bill Burr says the internet only exists so people can argue about shit and download free stuff
 
j0hnnix

j0hnnix

Member
kame-sennin said:
No, racism is about the perpetuation of white supremacy. A black person can not engage in racism*** because they do not have the institutional power of white supremacy behind them. While Micah Johnson's actions were designed to attack a group of people beyond the ones he personally killed via fear and intimidation, these killings are not a part of a systematic violent oppression of whites because no such system exists.

The rebranding of anti-white rhetoric and violence by black radicals as "racism" is a right-wing tactic designed to dilute the meaning of the word. These killings were not hate crimes. They were not a part of a pattern of genocidal actions. They were 'just' murder. Perhaps terrorism.


***Johnson was no doubt prejudiced and discriminatory. But that's not the same as racism.
Click to expand...

What in the world... Keep drinking that kool-aide.
 
P

Phased

Member
Mendax said:
they said the same thing about brexit
Click to expand...

We're a much larger more diverse country than the UK is. A huge portion of us come from immigrant or foreign backgrounds, our nation is built on it.

The sort of fear mongering and keeping out non-white nonsense that worked for Brexit really won't work here in this day and age. Yeah, you're gonna get a bunch of people in the middle of the country who are inbred rednecks, but most of the country wants nothing to do with that.

The U.S is huge. You can fit the entirety of the UK, landmass wise, into California alone and still have room to spare. We're incredibly diverse.
 
C

Cat in the Hat

Member
kame-sennin said:
No, racism is about the perpetuation of white supremacy. A black person can not engage in racism*** because they do not have the institutional power of white supremacy behind them. While Micah Johnson's actions were designed to attack a group of people beyond the ones he personally killed via fear and intimidation, these killings are not a part of a systematic violent oppression of whites because no such system exists.

The rebranding of anti-white rhetoric and violence by black radicals as "racism" is a right-wing tactic designed to dilute the meaning of the word. These killings were not hate crimes. They were not a part of a pattern of genocidal actions. They were 'just' murder. Perhaps terrorism.


***Johnson was no doubt prejudiced and discriminatory. But that's not the same as racism.
Click to expand...
Fuck you.
 
C

C4Lukins

Junior Member
kame-sennin said:
No, racism is about the perpetuation of white supremacy. A black person can not engage in racism*** because they do not have the institutional power of white supremacy behind them. While Micah Johnson's actions were designed to attack a group of people beyond the ones he personally killed via fear and intimidation, these killings are not a part of a systematic violent oppression of whites because no such system exists.

The rebranding of anti-white rhetoric and violence by black radicals as "racism" is a right-wing tactic designed to dilute the meaning of the word. These killings were not hate crimes. They were not a part of a pattern of genocidal actions. They were 'just' murder. Perhaps terrorism.


***Johnson was no doubt prejudiced and discriminatory. But that's not the same as racism.
Click to expand...


What a disgusting post. I could counter your points one by one, but you are already gone. There is no logical arguement to be had when someone is so alien to reality.
 
T

TheSchwab_7

Member
VanCityGamer said:
There is no way Trump is going to be elected.
Click to expand...

I hope he isn't elected, but it scares me when he is blasting his bigotry all over the place and people are eating that shit up. A lot of those people are just followers, they don't critically think about the decisions they make, they just act on emotion and fear.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Kame-sennin's definition of racism is 100% the one you'll learn in any undergraduate sociology class that covers the topic, to say nothing of actual intersectional studies.

I also think he's pretty clearly correct to say that the recreation of racism as a thing that anybody can do to anybody is a very new idea. People didn't start complaining about racism against white people until it became socially unacceptable to engage in racism against people of color. That's not, like, accidental.

Lastly, it should be clearly obvious to anybody that a white guy hating black people and a black guy hating white people are not isomorphic if they both live in a society which was founded in, fought a horrific war about, and still more or less condones white people owning and killing black people.

That said I'm not sure any of this really adds to the understanding of this one particular incident.
 
K

kame-sennin

Member
James said:
I will have to agree with him here. In academia the word racism is used more like how the average person would use the term institutionalized racism. For the sake of discussion though, using 'racism' as a catch all is appropriate, so arguing over what is or isn't racism is a waste of time. If one needs to be specific then just use the term institutionalized racism.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Racism, no matter how hard people struggle to redefine it, comes down from a history of imperialism and colonialism. Calling any act of violence racist because it was perpetrated against whites, by a black person who hated whites, is to minimize the actual affect that racist violence has.

Myself, and many people I know are going through significant trauma due to the live recording of Philando Castille's death. This incident was traumatic to watch not just because we all witnessed a man bleed to death in real time. It had the added horror that this was merely the most recent lynching of a black man in a 400 year history of the slaughter of black people. This murder carries with it the existential dread for blacks that "I could be next" and the most powerful government on earth would not only fail to respond, but might actively condone such a murder.

This overwhelming institutional power is something Micah Johnson, as a black man, simply does not have access to. Americans, white Americans in particular, should not in their grief for these officers seek to appropriate the suffering and oppression that they in reality benefit from.

In short, if you are white, racism is not a thing that happens to you.
Cat in the Hat said:
Fuck you.
Click to expand...

?

pigeon said:
That said I'm not sure any of this really adds to the understanding of this one particular incident.
Click to expand...

The killing of these five officers may not have been racist, but it exists within and because of the context of racism that permeates American society. Understanding that is key to understanding what happened and coming up with a way forward.
 
Z

Zornack

Member
pigeon said:
Kame-sennin's definition of racism is 100% the one you'll learn in any undergraduate sociology class that covers the topic, to say nothing of actual intersectional studies..
Click to expand...

No, it's not. Kame's definition of racism is an action that perpetuates white supremacy. That is not the definition used in academia.
 
Krappadizzle

Krappadizzle

Member
kame-sennin said:
The killing of these five officers may not have been racist, but it exists within and because of the context of racism that permeates American society. Understanding that is key to understanding what happened and coming up with a way forward.
Click to expand...

Bruh....Really? IT WAS A RACIST ACT FROM A RACIST. The sooner YOU understand that, the sooner you can help in coming up with a way forward. You are getting so hung up on what you define the word as that it's blinding you to it's meaning.
 
R

rezn0r

Member
rhetorical question for the most recent active posters in this thread

if for whatever reason an indian guy in iceland hated asians, and killed a group of asians in iceland, would that be considered racist to you?
 
TBiddy

TBiddy

Member
So if a white man says to a black man "All blacks are lazy and smell", it's considered racism, but if a black man says to a white man "All whites are lazy and smell", it's not? That must be some made up definition man.
 
iPaul93

iPaul93

Member
kame-sennin said:
No, racism is about the perpetuation of white supremacy. A black person can not engage in racism*** because they do not have the institutional power of white supremacy behind them. While Micah Johnson's actions were designed to attack a group of people beyond the ones he personally killed via fear and intimidation, these killings are not a part of a systematic violent oppression of whites because no such system exists.

The rebranding of anti-white rhetoric and violence by black radicals as "racism" is a right-wing tactic designed to dilute the meaning of the word. These killings were not hate crimes. They were not a part of a pattern of genocidal actions. They were 'just' murder. Perhaps terrorism.


***Johnson was no doubt prejudiced and discriminatory. But that's not the same as racism.
Click to expand...

I hope you're just trolling,cause if you're not,you need help.
 
C

Carcetti

Member
The 'you can only be racist if you have power' is the normal definition in studies these days but I don't think it holds much relevance here. The mere act of holding a gun gives the power of life and death to anyone over everyone.
 
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