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[BattleMonkey]

That's kind of true of SW as well, though. Laser Crossbows, lightsabers...

Not in the same sense, that is stylistic. With the 40k universe the difference is that lot of the technology was lost thousands of years ago and it's study is highly controlled. Lot of what they use is material they don't know how it completely works but it just does.

They know how to create very advanced explosives and all kinds of unique weapons in 40k, but they don't have the capability to create complex tracking/guidance systems to go along with said weapons, forcing them to use line of sight for many things. They will have these highly advanced warheads strapped onto very simple rocket systems instead of creating some super technology cruise missiles, they just don't know how and likely never will.

The most prominent I can think of is Teleportation.

Terminator armor is one of the most well known in the 40k Universe. They really don't know how to make it, they can repair many parts of the armor, but if it has taken too much damage the suit is lost forever. The teleport homer in the suit for example is a piece of the suit that can't be replicated, but they can at times piece together new armor by scrapping together the components from multiple suits that were salvaged. There are many little examples like this but it shows how the universe is restricted in how far it's technology is.

 

[Alucrid]

Not in the same sense, that is stylistic. With the 40k universe the difference is that lot of the technology was lost thousands of years ago and it's study is highly controlled. Lot of what they use is material they don't know how it completely works but it just does.

They know how to create very advanced explosives and all kinds of unique weapons in 40k, but they don't have the capability to create complex tracking/guidance systems to go along with said weapons, forcing them to use line of sight for many things. They will have these highly advanced warheads strapped onto very simple rocket systems instead of creating some super technology cruise missiles, they just don't know how and likely never will.

I wonder how they would react to AI, like droids.

 

[Meteorain]

They know how to create very advanced explosives and all kinds of unique weapons in 40k, but they don't have the capability to create complex tracking/guidance systems to go along with said weapons, forcing them to use line of sight for many things. They will have these highly advanced warheads strapped onto very simple rocket systems instead of creating some super technology cruise missiles, they just don't know how and likely never will.

Can you give an example of these lacking in complexity tracking/guidance systems. Well....at least a comparative to the SW one's.

I wonder how they would react to AI, like droids.

Probably the same as most non-humans. Shoot it!

I think the Imperium would rather control their technology from a human perspective and don't utilise AI in the same way the SW universe does. All that machine-god mumbo-jumbo and what not.

Terminator armor is one of the most well known in the 40k Universe. They really don't know how to make it, they can repair many parts of the armor, but if it has taken too much damage the suit is lost forever. The teleport homer in the suit for example is a piece of the suit that can't be replicated, but they can at times piece together new armor by scrapping together the components from multiple suits that were salvaged. There are many little examples like this but it shows how the universe is restricted in how far it's technology is.

Hmm. The thing is. The Terminator technology isn't completely beyond. At the moment they are pretty much able to make near-new one's, but as time goes on they are forgetting how to do so because the Techpriests are so damn lazy. But so far, if necessary they can make new parts, they just prefer not to because it's so damn expensive to do so.

 

[luxarific]

The Imperium. Mostly because the Tanith/Gaunt are so awesome that they will single-handedly kick the Empire to the curb.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Can you give an example of these lacking in complexity tracking/guidance systems. Well....at least a comparative to the SW one's.

Torpedoes used by most imperium ships have no tracking system for example, they are direct fire weapons. Torpedoes are also huge, in some cases a torpedo from a battleship in 40k is bigger than most SW ships, but again, they have no guidance system.

Ever play the game Battlefleet Gothic? It's full of this as you lob volleys of torpedoes at your opponents and you have to basically maneuver around the torpedoes and anticipate your own shots.

The imperium and chaos alike pretty much just lob tons of torpedoes at a target in hopes of hitting.

I wonder how they would react to AI, like droids.

The Tau in the 40k universe make use of AI's. They shoot it

 

[Meteorain]

No Gothic was one of the one's I didn't play.

Well fair enough if that's how it works, but the technology is not beyond them. They utilise guidance systems on smaller scale rockets and what not. I think it depends on what they are using it for.

 

[Ogrekiller]

Mass Effect vs EVE online. FIGHT!

 

[BattleMonkey]

No Gothic was one of the one's I didn't play.

Well fair enough if that's how it works, but the technology is not beyond them. They utilise guidance systems on smaller scale rockets and what not. I think it depends on what they are using it for.

They have very simplistic guidance systems at best, most missiles/torpedoes/etc used by the imperium are direct line of sight weapons. Guidance systems pretty much amount to heat seakers that would be found in our older aircraft from our universe. Seeker torpedoes used in space combat are very unreliable and even at times will end up seeking other torpedoes instead of the target ship.

Our current world cruise missiles, ground to air, and air to air missiles are more high tech than what the Imperium knows. Much of our smart weaponry now would be totally lost on the Imperium. The warheads in the 40k universe might be super powerful, but the weapons are often "dumb".

The Eldar has more sophisticated guidance systems on their weapons making them far more accurate, with the Tau having the most advanced of all races and pride themselves on their fire and forget technology.

 

[NullPointer]

It would be over quickly, but I'd love to watch it.

 

[Sinatar]

I think the Eldar would get involved, they'd never let a dark presence like Palps get on the golden throne. They couldn't openly team with the imperium (the imperium would shoot them on site) but I could see them opening a second front on the imperium and launching hit and run guerilla attacks on them.

The Tau would perceive the sith as an enemy of the greater good and would probably wage war on them as well.

The Orks fight everyone and would relish a battle with a new opponent.

I don't think the Necrons would get involved unless the Empire encroached on their territory.

The Tyranids would see a fresh Galaxy full of people as a god damn buffet and would invade SW space with full force.

Chaos might actually share some ideoligy with the Sith and would probably welcome an ally in their battle against the Imperium.

I dunno, that seems like a lot of chips allayed against old palps.

 

[Salazar]

Fucking psyched for the 40K Space Marine game all over again.

 

[Meteorain]

They have very simplistic guidance systems at best, most missiles/torpedoes/etc used by the imperium are direct line of sight weapons. Guidance systems pretty much amount to heat seakers that would be found in our older aircraft from our universe. Seeker torpedoes used in space combat are very unreliable and even at times will end up seeking other torpedoes instead of the target ship.

Our current world cruise missiles, ground to air, and air to air missiles are more high tech than what the Imperium knows. Much of our smart weaponry now would be totally lost on the Imperium. The warheads in the 40k universe might be super powerful, but the weapons are often "dumb".

The Eldar has more sophisticated guidance systems on their weapons making them far more accurate, with the Tau having the most advanced of all races and pride themselves on their fire and forget technology.

Well I wasn't specifically aware of their guidance systems so that's good to know.

The one thing I do know is that the Imperial technology is very skewed. On an infantry level it's amazing, but on a bigger scale it starts to get a bit useless in places.

As much as I love seeing Titans run about, really.....you would just fire a nuke at it :lol

 

[Alucrid]

I think the Eldar would get involved, they'd never let a dark presence like Palps get on the golden throne. They couldn't openly team with the imperium (the imperium would shoot them on site) but I could see them opening a second front on the imperium and launching hit and run guerilla attacks on them.

The Tau would perceive the sith as an enemy of the greater good and would probably wage war on them as well.

The Orks fight everyone and would relish a battle with a new opponent.

I don't think the Necrons would get involved unless the Empire encroached on their territory.

The Tyranids would see a fresh Galaxy full of people as a god damn buffet and would invade SW space with full force.

Chaos might actually share some ideoligy with the Sith and would probably welcome an ally in their battle against the Imperium.

I dunno, that seems like a lot of chips allayed against old palps.

I dunno. I tend to think Chaos only accepts Chaos and I don't see the Empire siding with any of the daemonic gods...I don't think the emperor wants tentacles or boils that ooze puss or bloodthirsty maniacs or...I forget the last god. :lol

 

[KevinCow]

The guys with the chainswords. Chainswords are pretty much auto-win. Yes, even against lightsabers.

 

[JayDubya]

The guys with the chainswords. Chainswords are pretty much auto-win. Yes, even against lightsabers.

Considering a lightsaber would cut right though a chainsword, this is a no.

But they have stronger weapons than chainswords in 40k.

 

[siddx]

Considering a lightsaber would cut right though a chainsword, this is a no.

But they have stronger weapons than chainswords in 40k.

Pretty sure he was being humorous and expressing his love for the concept of a chainsword. But such is the issue in a thread like this, everything you say will be taken literally.
And he's right, chainsword is way cooler than a really hot glowstick.

 

[Ridli]

Wait, so Warhammer capital ships have no guidance systems for their principal weapons? That seems like a pretty big friggin oversight when considering a space battle. If my time flying for the Emperor is any indication (lol), a trained Imperial pilot can shoot torpedoes and missles with sophisticated tracking systems out of the sky before they even get close to a ship.

This would grant amazing space superiority to the Empire, and one of the greatest features of a Star Destroyer is orbital bombardment. Fancy super marines and super armor don't mean much when they're vaporized from orbit with a giant column of turbolaser fire.

 

[Leunam]

Wait, so Warhammer capital ships have no guidance systems for their principal weapons? That seems like a pretty big friggin oversight when considering a space battle. If my time flying for the Emperor is any indication (lol), a trained Imperial pilot can shoot torpedoes and missles with sophisticated tracking systems out of the sky before they even get close to a ship.

Yeah, but larger Imperial ships have armored prows with Nova Cannons. Nothing to sneeze at. Don't think I've ever heard of Star Destroyers using ramming as a viable tactic. Not to mention boarding parties by Imperials would be slaughter, just send in an experienced Terminator kill team with Space Hulk experience.

 

[erpg]

Just as a note on A.I, the Empirium hates, and does not allow self-aware artificial intelligence. Their first forrays into A.I are the primary reason why they're so inept and incapable of growing their understanding of technology.


http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Abominable_Intelligence

 

[Leunam]

I dunno. I tend to think Chaos only accepts Chaos and I don't see the Empire siding with any of the daemonic gods...I don't think the emperor wants tentacles or boils that ooze puss or bloodthirsty maniacs or...I forget the last god. :lol

Sorcerous blasphemers.

Chaos doesn't ally with anyone except Orks, and that's not much of an alliance since Orks will just go where the fight is and Chaos just uses them for their own goals.

 

[KevinCow]

Considering a lightsaber would cut right though a chainsword, this is a no.

But they have stronger weapons than chainswords in 40k.

Shut up JayDubya. Stop being wrong about everything.

 

[harriet the spy]

I don't know much about the 40K universe, but it's always so ridiculously over the top it's pretty awesome:lol i should play the PC games.

This being said, those little space marine figurines look badass but not in the ridiculous way their description makes them sound like.

Also, since we're talking sizes:
http://a.imageshack.us/img819/3749/1274059971811.jpg

is that green blob the biggest 40K ship? Because then it seems smaller than the big SW ships.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/CanisD/Shipyard/Drawings/SW/Eclipse.png

The most common destroyer ship in SW is the imperial class, which I will presume is the one depicted in the first picture (it certainly cannot be an executor class b/c of the shape, could be victory).

/former star wars nerd.

edit: what about shivans from freespace 2 would they kick anyone's ass?

 

[Ridli]

Yeah, but larger Imperial ships have armored prows with Nova Cannons. Nothing to sneeze at. Don't think I've ever heard of Star Destroyers using ramming as a viable tactic. Not to mention boarding parties by Imperials would be slaughter, just send in an experienced Terminator kill team with Space Hulk experience.

Not to discount it, but this is like the first thing I found when googling Nova Cannons..

While the exact principle of the weapon remains unknown, there have been several arguments about the kinetic energy of the impact. Unfortunately, while the kinetic energy can be estimated with some accuracy, the weapon (primarily due to the extreme range and unreliable aiming) is unlikely to directly hit anything smaller than a planetoid. The primary effect is derived from the explosive force, which is produced by an unknown method (presumably a very large thermonuclear/fusion warhead, given the name).

That's not exactly filling me with dread. Maybe the Deathstar has to contend with it, but I was never a fan of Tarkin's superweapon fetish. It'd rather pump money into expanding the fleet, achieving space superiority and bringing individual systems into line with overwhelming orbital bombardment.

Tell me, what fighter-craft can the Imperium bring to match the uncountable Tie Fighter squadrons? Who will defeat the students of Soontir Fel? What do they have that makes you think their boarding ship will even get close enough to the Star Destroyer to try and take it? You don't just get to board it for free, after all. There are fighter screens, frigates, and plenty of other things before you get to contend with ISD proper.

 

[Hellsing321]

The Empire wouldn't stand a chance. They've never had to live in a galaxy where literally everything is trying to kill you. They wouldn't just be fighting the Imperium of Man which would be suicide itself but they'd have to fight every bloodthirsty race out there just because they love fighting and killing. I doubt the entire Empire could even handle a single Tyranid Hive fleet.

 

[Leunam]

Well you didn't bold the second part of the sentence. The explosive radius is where you're going to cause damage, as is evidenced in Battlefleet Gothic. Sure, getting a dead accurate his is nice, and not impossible, but even with a miss you're guaranteed to cause some damage. On top of that, Nova cannons aren't as rare as whatever the Death Star is packing.

And no, obviously boarding any ship isn't going to be a walk in the park, but I wouldn't be worried about how I'm going to do it if I were commanding the Imperial Navy. I would worry about how quickly I can accomplish that. It's funny, just like there are a ton of TIE fighters deployed in any given encounter, the Imperium of Man doesn't have any problem sending it's boys into the meat grinder. Hell, Cadia is basically a meat grinder on it's own, since it's the first line of defense from the Eye of Terror. If we're talking about a battle in space, I would imagine it comes down to who has the most resources at their disposal, not necessarily technology.

 

[Hellsing321]

I think the Eldar would get involved, they'd never let a dark presence like Palps get on the golden throne. They couldn't openly team with the imperium (the imperium would shoot them on site) but I could see them opening a second front on the imperium and launching hit and run guerilla attacks on them.

The Tau would perceive the sith as an enemy of the greater good and would probably wage war on them as well.

The Orks fight everyone and would relish a battle with a new opponent.

I don't think the Necrons would get involved unless the Empire encroached on their territory.

The Tyranids would see a fresh Galaxy full of people as a god damn buffet and would invade SW space with full force.

Chaos might actually share some ideoligy with the Sith and would probably welcome an ally in their battle against the Imperium.

I dunno, that seems like a lot of chips allayed against old palps.

The Empire is not evil and chaotic enough for the forces of Chaos. Hell, The empire is probably nicer than the Imperium of man. They might actually be seen as liberators if everyone in the Imperium wasn't a Brainwashed crazy fanatic.

 

[Jex]

The Galactic Empire would be toast. Sure those guys can kick the crap out of the Star Trek Federation, but the Imperium does war like no-one else.

 

[Enosh]

Most Space Marines are mostly dumb meatheads after all.

that's compleatly wrong

anyway, SW still wins

the firepower of both ships are kinda equalish, maybe a very slight edge to 40k
on the ground 40k has the edge
but SW has hyperspace, with which they can run circles around the IoM and a much bigger industrial capacity

it's going to be very bloody, but in the end SW takes it

Also, the big problem with Space Marine is equipment.. they have re-use old equipment all the time, some of the power armors are thousand years old and they have Technicians (I forgot their official name) doing voodoo on them so that the suits still work.

they just recently made the mk VIII armor for SMs, the one with the colar, so they still innovate and make new armor designs

 

[PflargBlarg]

Isn't there a ship in Star Wars that has the power of the deathstar?

Exactly, the OP mentioned that access to all superweapons is a go.

Which means that the Empire can use the Sun Crusher. It's armour is pretty much invincible (it took a glancing blow from a Death Star and nothing happened, it has taken out a Star Destroyer by just driving straight through it and taking no damage itself), and it can cause any star to go supernova. This one tiny ship could completely wipe out multiple systems. That's not even mentioning shit like the Galaxy Gun and World Devastator.

I think this would render Imperium ground forces pretty much irrelevant. I'm not up on information about 40k spaceships and such but Star Wars technology seems to be far ahead of 40k technology, I think being able to pump out massive amounts of Star Destroyers and other heavy ships makes it a good chance of a win for space battles as well but it won't be a cakewalk.

The only problem is the goal of taking the throne. It means that at some point the Empire is going to have to get involved in a ground war which I think they will lose. Star Wars tank and other ground weapon equivalents suck ass.

 

[water_wendi]

Exactly, the OP mentioned that access to all superweapons is a go.

Which means that the Empire can use the Sun Crusher. It's armour is pretty much invincible (it took a glancing blow from a Death Star and nothing happened, it has taken out a Star Destroyer by just driving straight through it and taking no damage itself), and it can cause any star to go supernova. This one tiny ship could completely wipe out multiple systems. That's not even mentioning shit like the Galaxy Gun and World Devastator.

:lol Does the Empire come up with a bigger and better way to end mass life like every six months or something? Vs the side that hasnt figured out guidance systems in 10,000 years in a setting that is constantly at war, which is arguably the most fertile grounds for tech advancement?

 

[jakershaker]

-The wormhole is the size of a solar system, and can be entered and exited from any direction. Known science cannot seal it thus far.

Congratulations SW galaxy, you now have Orcs and Tyranids. Even if you win or not, you kind of lose.

 

[siddx]

[/B]
:lol Does the Empire come up with a bigger and better way to end mass life like every six months or something? Vs the side that hasnt figured out guidance systems in 10,000 years in a setting that is constantly at war, which is arguably the most fertile grounds for tech advancement?

All those things listed are from the over active imaginations of authors who are constantly trying to one up each other in Star Wars novels. Lucas for whatever reason counts them as canon, despite the fact that many of the novels read like fan fiction written by 12 year olds trying to come up with "the coolest ship evar!"

 

[duk]

Are we counting out the Force and mind control? If jedi's and palpatine/DV can control the 40k minds, it's pretty much over.

 

[Salazar]

Are we counting out the Force and mind control? If jedi's and palpatine/DV can control the 40k minds, it's pretty much over.

40K get a saving dice roll.

 

[hteng]

Wait, so Warhammer capital ships have no guidance systems for their principal weapons? That seems like a pretty big friggin oversight when considering a space battle. If my time flying for the Emperor is any indication (lol), a trained Imperial pilot can shoot torpedoes and missles with sophisticated tracking systems out of the sky before they even get close to a ship.

This would grant amazing space superiority to the Empire, and one of the greatest features of a Star Destroyer is orbital bombardment. Fancy super marines and super armor don't mean much when they're vaporized from orbit with a giant column of turbolaser fire.

the emperium has planet killer weapons as well, such as the virus bomb and fire storm.

first they would launch the virus warheads onto the planet surface, the flesh eating virus will each everything that's made out of... err.. flesh or organic, nothing can stop them since they are so damn small and can replicate at exponential rates.

after they've eaten all the flesh out of living things they will start to devour among themselves. doing so will cause them to release highly flamable gases to the atmosphere, a small spark would trigger a planet wide fire storm, instantly incinerating anything that the initial virus bomb has missed.

after the fire storm, then comes the orbital bombardment that would clean up everything.

the planet would be so devastated that it is impossible to sustain life anymore.

 

[Dresden]

Are we counting out the Force and mind control? If jedi's and palpatine/DV can control the 40k minds, it's pretty much over.

>>Send in Inquisitors

>>curbstomp Sith/Jedi scum

My experience with WH40K is limited to that Eisenhorn trilogy and the Relic games, but the shit that those inquisitors have to deal with is far beyond anything force users can toss at them.

 

[Sinatar]

Are we counting out the Force and mind control? If jedi's and palpatine/DV can control the 40k minds, it's pretty much over.

Again the various Psykers of the 40k races are quite powerful and could prevent this sort of thing. Not to mention if the Tyranid get involved the shadow of the hive mind would block any access to the force at all.

Tell me, what fighter-craft can the Imperium bring to match the uncountable Tie Fighter squadrons?

The imperium navy has it's own hordes of fighters (called Furys, Starhawks and Sharks). It has a full range of ships, most of the discussion here seems to focus on the biggest of them but their fleets range from small frigates up to the 8km long super carriers.

While I think SW definitely has an edge in space combat, it's not an immense edge. Once the other races come into play, it's over and done with. One Hive Fleet would absolutely massacre the entire SW galaxy.

EDIT: The imperium also has 3 blackstone fortresses which can fire "a beam of pure immaterium to destroy everything in its path. This power can be linked with other Fortresses for even more powerful beam, as was evident when Abaddon used two Fortresses to destroy the planet Fularis II, and three to cause the Tarantis star to supernova".

So yea they got the Deathstar level destruction down too.

 

[Salazar]

And Jedi are emo anyway.

They don't got that psychological grit.

 

[spats]

Goku would win over 40K easy. He'd go super saiyan level 4 and spirit bomb their asses out of existence. More on topic though, I don't think think the Star Wars universe would stand any chance. I've only read half a wh40k book and played a handful of games so I'm not familiar with the full extent of the Imperium's military strength, but the Space Marines are pretty mean things.

In conclusion, Goku>Warhammer>Star Wars.

 

[GDGF]

This thread is really making me want to try a Warhammer 40K novel or two.

 

[hteng]

This thread is really making me want to try a Warhammer 40K novel or two.

do it, start with horus rising, then false gods, then galaxy in flames.

 

[jakershaker]

Wouldn't the empire crumble pretty quickly when chaos started infiltrating their footsoldiers minds? They're already "evil" so I'm guessing the lure of the real dark side would tug pretty hard on their souls.

 

[hteng]

Wouldn't the empire crumble pretty quickly when chaos started infiltrating their footsoldiers minds? They're already "evil" so I'm guessing the lure of the real dark side would tug pretty hard on their souls.

that would be an even greater problem for the imperium, cultists are tougher than normal humans/clones.

 

[El Sloth]

I don't know anything about 40K, so I'll be basing this around what has been posted in this thread, but I'd say the Empire would have space superiority but the emperor won't even be able to set foot on the planet where this "Golden Throne" is. A stalemate in other words.

Galactic Empire wins in Space
but
Imperium of Man dominates on Land

If the the Empire has total control of the entire SW galaxy then they have insane potential to just churn out super weapons like Super Star Destroyers (Which this site leads me to believe is bigger than the ships of the Imperium of Man) and that other freaking crazy ship with the ability to cause supernovas or something equally ridiculous. Also, I'd imagine that now with the entire galaxy under their control the Empire could have the Mon Calamari improve on their Star Destroyers to make some pretty interesting/powerful new ships. And of course there's the freaking Death Star, of which I imagine they'll be building at least two more for the impending war, which outclasses all other warships. Not that it's invulnerable of course, but it's certainly no pushover.

Not that it would be easy, since this a civilization that only knows how to war, I'd imagine there would be many many losses, but eventually the Imperium of Man's technological rut would be their undoing imo. Missile tracking systems, or lack thereof, would play a pretty huge part in things I think.

I should mention that I'm basing this off the Empire not immediately invading the 40k universe and having some

Spoiler

Batman

prep-time first.

However, based of what's been posted in this thread, it seems like the Empire would get creamed in land battles. Sure, they have orbital bombardments and the Death Star to even things up, but the whole point of the invasion is that the Emperor wants the Golden Throne, right? Wouldn't do much good to destroy it.

Anyone more knowledgeable than I am mind theorizing how AT-AT's would fare against the 40k land armies?

Thread makes me want to get into 40k universe. Seems damn cool! Any suggestions on where to start?

 

[elwes]

I'm a huge Star Wars fan, but even with the infinitesimally small amount of knowledge I have about the Warhammer 40K universe, I'd pick them. From what I've read, they are the definition of overkill. Something like one Space Marine can take down thousands of troops without even trying. I can't see anything Star Wars related, even with the Force in the equation, being able to combat something of that magnitude.

 

[Drek]

In Star Wars cannon this douche here almost single handedly defeated the Empire:

So even if they come across a single chapter that is 1,000 of these guys:

Lets recap:

Lost to this one guy:

But not against 900 of these guys:

plus about 100 of these guys:

Oh, and a handful of these guys too:

Sure.

 

[FunBoy]

There is only one correct answer.

The Imperial Fleet is decimated by Chaos Daemons while travelling through the warp.

 

[Salazar]

This thread is really making me want to try a Warhammer 40K novel or two.

Go for Let the Galaxy Burn. It's an anthology. Covers pretty much all the armies, cultures, and shit. Good introduction to different authors.

 

[Android18a]

Is there a range of 30mm Star Wars models for a game? It'd be quite fun to have that, I think. A full on SW tabletop strategy game. They did it for Lord of the Rings.

 

[Donos]

I would say on land SW looses badly but they have the air/space advantage. So the SW guys would make everything to avoid land/foot combat even with "equal" forces.

I also think some of you underestimate the empire or overread the OP. The SW Empire has almost no enemies now and is pumping out ships/ star destroyers etc. The empire is very efficient.

If a SW fleet takes down a Chapter Fortress Ship it is a great loss of material and long/hard trained Space Marines. If a Star Destroyer goes down it is just another Star Destroyer with "some" ordinary humans and troopers. no big loss.

Thx for this kind of threads mama.