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SPOILER ALERT: Halo 5 (Spoiler) Spoiler Thread of Spoilers Spoiler
- Thread starter Shadow_Lord
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Primethius
Banned
Ugh, I didn't like the Locke/Chief fight at all. It's so inconsistent with the opening cutscene too.
They just start slugging it out like they're slow and clunky. And chief struggled way too much.
They just start slugging it out like they're slow and clunky. And chief struggled way too much.
DATABASE DATABASE
Member
that's a lot of wardens
EroticSushi
Member
Yeah the animation looked like they were ragged dolls being choreographed like puppets. Was hoping it would be more epic than that.
Same here.
I did like the Warden Eternal battle though, the guy is a total badass.
It may be the first actually good boss fight in Halo history.
Xzilerate1690
Banned
Well that's for several reasons:
1. In the fight they didn't have the momentum that Osiris had when in the opening scene. When you jump out of a Pelican from near orbit then you're going to have quite the momentum after landing.
2. In the fight they weren't running down a mountain side like in the opening scene.
3. In the fight they weren't consistently using their thrusters like in the opening scene.
You're essentially comparing apples and oranges.
And there's nothing wrong with Chief struggling. Locke is Chief's physical equal and the former also has training from ONI as well as Spartan training. The former is training that Buck believed would allow Veronica to tear him a new one before he became a Spartan and the latter is training that Buck believed was extremely difficult.
Forerunners only "preserved" other species through their twisted understanding of the ideology they've borrowed from the species they've exterminated in order to claim ownership over it, they weren't actually concerned with safeguarding the galaxy, they did everything to gain power and to expand.
She says in the game that those who oppose her will be remade in their (AIs) image. It's obvious that people were going to die in the process, you don't become a benevolent space tyrant without breaking a few million eggs... a benevolent space omelette... um.
Anyway, the thing is, if Cortana hadn't beaten us to the punch, the Guardians would be in the hands of an incredibly selfish species. Those things would be used to conquer other species and our own. We'd keep expanding and extinguishing every natural resource on the way until we inevitably begin bickering among ourselves once again, this time with enough power on each side to make the every previous conflict look like a slap fight.
Power creep is the real villain of the post-Bungie Halo universe. It actually could use a nice, long period of stagnation and technological regression. Again.
Awesome. Thanks
Primethius
Banned
Chief is a Spartan II and the books paint a much different picture of those Spartans fighting then the cutscene showed.
He should body Locke.
Xzilerate1690
Banned
If that's your best argument then there's really no point in even arguing with you. It's been stated time and time again that in armor a IV equals a II in terms of physicals.
Saying a Spartan II should stomp just because he/she is a Spartan II isn't in anyway a logical argument. I've already given you several reasons why it's perfectly ok for Chief to struggle, all of which you've chosen to ignore in favor of "Oh he's a Spartan II and thus should body a Spartan IV."
And of course the books paint a different picture. Novels are able to describe events with words. Games don't have that luxury.
DATABASE DATABASE
Member
"Making the mother of all omelettes here, John. Can't fret over every egg."
Primethius
Banned
The body Locke thing was just an opinion (as a #chief fan). But the books do paint the Spartan II's as much faster then what the cutscene showed. I was under the impression, given the opening cutscene that the Spartans were going to be depicted more closely to how they are in the books from now on.
Guess I was wrong.
Xzilerate1690
Banned
Well like I said, the books are going to be able to do that as they don't have to visualize these events like the games do.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Locke won. He cracked his visor.
That Guardian rising out of the ground doe.
That Guardian rising out of the ground doe.
Primethius
Banned
It's not about visualizing. The speed they portray the Spartans at in the books is much faster. There's nothing stopping them from doing that here. In this cutscene, they are slow and clunky.
I don't see the games being a limitation to what they portrayed.
Spartan II's have better physical augmentations and Blue team is wearing the same type of armor as the Spartan IV's. Logically, yes Chief should body Locke but for story purposes that's obviously not the case.
Were you expecting a fight ala Dragon Ball Z? Because that would have been terrible...
Xzilerate1690
Banned
Which is why out of armor a II would win handily as stated by 343. In armor they're equals. So no, logically he should not body Locke. Nothing has ever suggested GEN 2 armor would give the II's the same physical increase as it does for the IV's as the GEN 2 armor was designed to increase a IV's physical abilities to the point that they were on par with the II's. That's null and void if the II's already have those physical attributes.
I am currently listening to fall of reach, (never listened to it before; building up my hype) and Locke should be road kill on the concrete
What happens if a spartan 2, put on IV armor, would that magnify their strength even more?
But the intro and the scene of Jul's assassination did just that. The intro beats even the most superlative book description of a Spartan's prowess. It makes them look like they don't give a damn about gravity.
Primethius
Banned
No, I'm not. But what we got was extremely slow and clunky.
I admit. It's my fault. I expected a representation more in line with the books after seeing the opening cutscene.
Xzilerate1690
Banned
Both scenes had the Spartans using their thrusters and both of those scenes took place in open areas. They didn't really use their thrusters in this fight and it was in a small enclosed area.
Psychoward
Banned
First Halo 4, then botching the MCC, now Halo 5. Oh well, 3 strikes and all that 343.
And that's why logically MC would body Locke. Logic would assume that better armor, better stats, S2 has higher stats than S4. S2 wins.
gollumsluvslave
Member
The more I think about it, the less this story will bug me IF the execution is good.
- I'm not sure why I even countenanced that Cortana would be forever gone, she has been integral to the Halo story from the outset, and even more integral to this new trilogy. The question likely should not have been 'will we see Cortana again' it was 'how and in what role'
- Cortana as an opponent / antagonist to John is something that will again challenge his humanity. At the end of Halo 4 he was wrestling with the idea of loss; now he is having to deal with a potentially bitter betrayal, and also acceptance of the fact that 'he couldn't fix it'. So, loss, anger, fallibility, betrayal. Lots of human emotions there.
- Thematically it resonates in the Halo universe, and there were lots of seeds / foreshadowing there to point to it happening or something like it.
- - Rampancy / 7 year lifespan
- - Mendicant Bias / Gravemind. Cortana should have been under serious suspicion since 'Shoot.'
- - Guilty Spark / Chakas. Cortana / Halsey. End justifies the means.
- - AIs being the biggest threat to humanity - it's a real world thing! Sure it's been done in games before (System Shock, Marathon etc), but it's pretty central to Halo, especially with the Mantle of responsibility being introduced. Can any lifeform/race take on the Mantle with out Bias (pardon the pun).
- - Saints Testimony really makes the whole thing VERY interesting.
So after a bit of thinking i'm now thinking it's not that bad - at least she didn't come back as a love interest Spartan!
And maybe Halo 6 is all about redemption?
Either way it really does shake up the Halo Universe to the point that everything changes after it, and as such it's quite a ballsy move from 343i, and they must have expected some backlash.
If anything, the one thing I'm surprised at is Microsoft let them turn Cortana into a baddie
- I'm not sure why I even countenanced that Cortana would be forever gone, she has been integral to the Halo story from the outset, and even more integral to this new trilogy. The question likely should not have been 'will we see Cortana again' it was 'how and in what role'
- Cortana as an opponent / antagonist to John is something that will again challenge his humanity. At the end of Halo 4 he was wrestling with the idea of loss; now he is having to deal with a potentially bitter betrayal, and also acceptance of the fact that 'he couldn't fix it'. So, loss, anger, fallibility, betrayal. Lots of human emotions there.
- Thematically it resonates in the Halo universe, and there were lots of seeds / foreshadowing there to point to it happening or something like it.
- - Rampancy / 7 year lifespan
- - Mendicant Bias / Gravemind. Cortana should have been under serious suspicion since 'Shoot.'
- - Guilty Spark / Chakas. Cortana / Halsey. End justifies the means.
- - AIs being the biggest threat to humanity - it's a real world thing! Sure it's been done in games before (System Shock, Marathon etc), but it's pretty central to Halo, especially with the Mantle of responsibility being introduced. Can any lifeform/race take on the Mantle with out Bias (pardon the pun).
- - Saints Testimony really makes the whole thing VERY interesting.
So after a bit of thinking i'm now thinking it's not that bad - at least she didn't come back as a love interest Spartan!
And maybe Halo 6 is all about redemption?Either way it really does shake up the Halo Universe to the point that everything changes after it, and as such it's quite a ballsy move from 343i, and they must have expected some backlash.
If anything, the one thing I'm surprised at is Microsoft let them turn Cortana into a baddie
Huh? Both of those scenes feature close quarters combat parts. Locke is right in front of Jul when he uses thrusters to dodge his sword. It has nothing to do with the amount of space available.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Uhhhh. They're not trying to kill each other folks. One wants to subdue and the other just wants to go meet his lady friend.
Primethius
Banned
My entire complaint was based on the lack of speed which Spartans have shown in the books. In that context, there's no way Chief should be getting hit and getting his visor broken with such a slow punch.
But it's clear that book Spartans and game Spartans continue to be different (except in certain scenes), so whatever.
gollumsluvslave
Member
I agree that fist fight is a bit incongruous compared to the Jul cutscene.
It looks like it's in Zero G or something - I couldn't see anything in the feed that would account for heavy gravity though.
It looks like it's in Zero G or something - I couldn't see anything in the feed that would account for heavy gravity though.
EroticSushi
Member
Red vs Blue says otherwise. Lore logic aside I was just hoping the fight would be more epic.
http://gfycat.com/LongAnyAmericanlobster
DATABASE DATABASE
Member
Didact: "Our strength is a luminous sun towards which all intelligence blossoms. And the impervious shelter beneath which it has prospered."
Cortana: "Our strength shall serve as a luminous sun toward which all intelligence may blossom. And the impervious shelter beneath which you will prosper."
it's like poetry
Cortana: "Our strength shall serve as a luminous sun toward which all intelligence may blossom. And the impervious shelter beneath which you will prosper."
it's like poetry
User 73706
Banned
Red vs Blue says otherwise. Lore logic aside I was just hoping the fight would be more epic.
http://gfycat.com/LongAnyAmericanlobster
I definitely prefer what they did here. I've always liked the idea that the games as we play them are being shot in "slow-motion" in the sense that Spartan reflexes make everything more palatable / comprehensible to us normal humans. Note how "slowly" Banshees fly in Halo 3, yet in all of the supplementary materials leading up to it, they zoom around like fighter jets.
I assume something similar was going on here in terms of perception. The fight was still over pretty quickly, and MC's in a Gen-II suit so he's at "full potential" - minus the fact that he doesn't have Cortana to assist him in the heat of the moment. Locke's got a modicum of physical augmentations - while it's not remotely close to what the IIs had to deal with - and he's also sporting a Gen-II suit specifically designed for hunting, tracking and procurement. If Buck, Tanaka, or Vale had individually gone up against Chief, they probably would have lost a lot more quickly; Vale might stand a chance just because of how nimble she is.
I mean hell, we even got that small moment at the start of the fight where Locke manages to completely deny Chief from leading up with a haymaker: I thought it was a great moment to illustrate that they're more or less on the same level, and throughout the entire fight you can see Chief struggling with the idea that he's fighting a generation of Spartans that may actually be able to outmode him - which he hasn't seen with IIIs, other human enemies, or the bread-and-butter IV units. It's probably why he paused when Locke finally got a good combo in on him and busted his visor; while the immediate reaction may be "oh man, Chief is pissed," I think it was more of an allegorical thing in that Locke was managing to strip away that veil of heroic stoicism Chief always hides behind - and without Cortana, there's nothing to be found in Chief's individuality. Every action he takes and every move he makes hinge on either Blue Team or Cortana. He has no idea how to handle a situation where he's left without either.
Re: RvB fights: I honestly think certain scenes (such as the opening) absolutely took cues from RvB, but I'm glad they opted for a more "grounded" fight scene in Chief and Locke - with all of the fancy tech and whatnot they have at play, they really couldn't get all technical in battle without the other having something on-hand to negate it. It didn't feel like Locke was some self-insert Mary Sue that wiped the floor with Chief, and likewise it still made Chief look like a badass and highlighted that he's got Locke beat in terms of experience. In general, I've never been a huge fan of Oum's style of animation - nothing feels like it has any weight to it outside of the punch or "whud" sound effects - and I really don't think it would have been a good fit for this encounter. Frankly, after all of the criticism regarding the Didact anticlimax, I think the Chief and Locke fight was specifically engineered so as to make it as good as possible without alienating or pissing off entire swaths of the fanbase. It has things that just about everyone is going to want to see, and at its core it still illustrates that while Locke may be better-equipped to handle an opponent like Chief, MC is still going to have the upper hand because he's spent his whole life fighting unknowns.
JumPeRJumPzZ
Banned
They have to improve that Engine or get a new one IMO...
DecepticonCora
Neo Member
Okay, if the Didact has her under his thumb, then 343 gets a cookie. But man is it getting complex. We've got the Gravemind corrupting the mind of the Didact who is corrupting the mind of Cortana who had previously almost got corrupted by the Gravemind.
Whew.
Is this the Didact not from Halo 4? Interesting if so... Seems like it all leads back to the flood/precursors.
DecepticonCora
Neo Member
I think that was an inevitability, the book Primordium essentially set it up as such with a prediction when man is arrogant the Flood could return. I think Cortana dun goofed.
I thought it was a very effective cliffhanger. It doesn't feel sudden and the ending cutscene chain isn't nearly as brief as Halo 2's.
I just wish the writing could be better. The final cutscene feels like it's leading up to major emotional story beat with a touching reunion, then hits you with an out of place snarky remark, fade to black.
lifeexpectancy
Member
Just finished the campaign.
I have one word.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fuck you 343i.
I mean I love you 343i.
I mean fuck you.
Time to play it again.
I love you 343i.
I have one word.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fuck you 343i.
I mean I love you 343i.
I mean fuck you.
Time to play it again.
I love you 343i.
If only he were taller. Or something.
Locke lasting as along as he did was 343 trying to make him seem cooler while not putting him over Chief completely. Basic transition to new main character tactic. Quick action scene plus it doesn't annoy long time fans. Same principle as the Nero/Dante fight in DMC 4.
There wasn't anything else to that scene, the writing in this game doesn't seem to be strong enough to warrant the assumption of subtlety.
There wasn't anything else to that scene, the writing in this game doesn't seem to be strong enough to warrant the assumption of subtlety.
PetulantChild
Banned
This is some fan-fiction shit.
BossDarkseid
Member
Eh.
THe more I think about it...regardless of the story, If i have fun in co op then I'll love the game but if this is a setup to Halo 6 involving the return of the Flood/Precursors etc and Cortana has essentially set humanity up for the fall, willingly or no, then I can like it...I still feel it could have done with a game inbetween Cortana's death and return but ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh. It'll be fun
THe more I think about it...regardless of the story, If i have fun in co op then I'll love the game but if this is a setup to Halo 6 involving the return of the Flood/Precursors etc and Cortana has essentially set humanity up for the fall, willingly or no, then I can like it...I still feel it could have done with a game inbetween Cortana's death and return but ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh. It'll be fun
I agree. The campaign seems like it's foreshadowing alot. Not only that, but in the Halo comics, the last two issues don't release until after the game launch, which might include hints to Halo 5 and Halo 6.
Ending:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVu6p0F1Tto
And another:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2QYfar4Qts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVu6p0F1Tto
And another:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2QYfar4Qts
Maintenance
Member
Atrocious VA, goddamn.
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