You're the kind of guy to say "No, you can't" to someone that tells you they're so hungry they could eat a horse, aren't you?
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Star Citizen - Fans have dropped $77m on this guys buggy, half-built game [WIRED]
- Thread starter mocoworm
- Start date
So maybe see other things, where they talk about game systems as well?Dont know what i did so wrong to get banned, they made this for the graphic pc crowd, everything i see about this " game " is to show how pretty it is , show some ships , show some weapons destroying some stuff, show dudes getting inside the ship but gameplay ? nothing they showed looked good.
But if you enjoy go on.
edith i see now, term master race is banned here, well it was good to post here sometime, guess i will be reading from now on :-D
Their UI systems have more depth than whole games and i'm not even exaggerating:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14466-Design-MobiGlas
And about gameplay not looking good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opMGRIpUbO8
TheVoidDragon
Member
What features do you think they've added that they weren't going to include at the start? I don't just mean new ships and things like that, large features that have an impact on the overall game. The FPS gameplay was always there, it was planned from the start, they didn't suddenly go for it because they had the money. Nothing about what the game is actually going to be has changed. The stretch goals have been enhancing the mechanics that were already planned or adding some small things that don't have too much impact (Like the ability to save the game from your ship rather than having to land). They aren't all things they've decided to add just because they can, many of them are things they've already planned for and some of them aren't going to be put into the game until after it's launched properly in some form.
The game was never going to just a normal ship sim. The ships were not all the game was going to be about, nothing has changed. Things like the FPS gameplay are not just side activities that don't matter as much as the ships, it's all important to the final game. They've always wanted it to be more than just an ordinary ship sim.
Dictator93
Member
Just to clarify, it isn't a bog standard sci-fi FPS. It is more like rainbow six, swat, or ARMA. Sim styled FPS according to the game devs: A genre which is woefully underpopulated.
I find your perspective the best on in this thread of all those who have voiced concern. This industry makes people cynical (myself included), but certain indie or kickstarter projects reinvigorate my passion. This is one of them.
A competitive FPS game in game was definitely not a part of the original pitch. Let's please not pretend it was now.
Star Citizen's initial ETA has flown by for a reason, either new features have been added due to (70 million dollars worth) increased funding and scope causing a huge delay or RSI are completely incompetent or they're scam artists. I do not believe the last two to be true.
Star Citizen's initial ETA has flown by for a reason, either new features have been added due to (70 million dollars worth) increased funding and scope causing a huge delay or RSI are completely incompetent or they're scam artists. I do not believe the last two to be true.
Dictator93
Member
FPS has been in development since 2013 by an entierly separate studio. The first FPS related stretch goal, aka, something which should add to the FPS, was the giving of every backer a laser pistol @ 16 M.
If it wasn't explicitly apart of the original pitch (beyond the whole FP cutscenes and FP walking around the carrier), it definitely became apart of the game shortly thereafter.
I didn't watch much ( if at all ) gameplay since at least december, but seeing so much turreting ( or whatever it's called ) makes my brain hurt. If dogfights mostly ends up looking like that in the final game, no words will be able to describe my disapointement.
TheVoidDragon
Member
"Ship boarding – learn more about how Star Citizen will allow players to conduct boarding operations." is mentioned in the $3.5mil stretch goal on the site, which was only about a month after the Kickstarter began (or a few months after the site funding began). It doesn't say they'll add that with that stretch goal, it was to give people more information on it. The FPS stuff has been planned from the start, or at least very, very early on. The letter for that goal goes into some detail about it:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12777-35-Million-Unlock
As for the "game in a game" aspect of it, it's just an in-universe simulation at the moment, it won't be like that once the persistent universe is released. The FPS gameplay will not be just a side thing, it's going to be an important part. The module is no different from Arena commander at the moment, it's just something to let players try it out while they work on it. Once they're ready the gameplay from all the modules will be joined together to form the persistent universe.
Dictator93
Member
Good eye.
They talked about FPS gameplay from almost day one. They added Planetside FPS gameplay as stretch goal at $20m, not FPS gameplay at all. It was planned to be in game since they started talk about it.
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/11wivt/i_am_chris_roberts_creator_of_wing_commander/
AMA from Oct 22 2012 !!!
The initial ETA was post-poned for primary few reasons, they skipped MP engine of CryEngine and expanded tech behind the physics in the game and that means that they need much more work in backend side.
Any feature added in the campaign dont change the fact that You still dont have multi-crew combat and double precision for world rendering, which needs to be in Squadron 42 too.
They also reworked assets for PBR and changed some ship systems to have more depth and be more customizable, because if they done that in future, it would cause them much, much more work than a year ago.
They increased sized of studios, which means changing development methodology and requires people to train newcomers, plus some studio relocations caused delays.
They also expanded their cinematic tech to make S42 better.
The available facts don't seem to support the addition of major new gameplay components. I think delays are due to an underestimation of the amount of work required, ever increasing demands for detail (reworking existing ships to provide more detail for instance, as is being done with the Constellation) and making existing gameplay components deeper or adding small features to them.
Right, this nicely demonstrates what I am talking about.
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/11wivt/i_am_chris_roberts_creator_of_wing_commander/
AMA from Oct 22 2012 !!!
First person elements like walking around have always been on the cards (like when I backed), not a fully fledged first person shooter game which could easily be stand-alone developed by a wholly new studio.
This is essentially the same as I posted earlier. All these additional features and scaling could have been done after the fact with expansions and continued crowd funding efforts and we should have had the game in our hands by now. Frontier managed to do it successfully and are now expanding on the base game which matched up with early backer expectations in a timely manner.
How is FPS combat while boarding ships and space station a 'walking around'?
Why have You ignored rest of my post where i explained why most of the stuff couldnt be added later?
----
I actually was. Not without whole flying and exploration of course, but FPS, or more like full body simulation and perspective, is big reason why i'm excited. FPS and being a game that can be like EVE Online for me, a game that i spent over 3500h in, but also a game that is not like a second job.
SneakyStephan
Banned
lol
Console warrior running rampant in this thread
The person you quoted listed some of the best games released in the past years
Anyhow , it shows the kind of 'discussion' the garbage title of that article was going to invite...
Exploring/walking around space stations, and a stand-off situation when boarding is vastly different to what is being developed now.
*edit
Just read your edit, I do not see much merit in continuing this discussion. I bid you adieu.
Dictator93
Member
Even though you are making assumptions without any evidence to back them up, it is obvious that the game's system become more complex and have added depth and fidelity as more money is put into the game. Hell Chris Roberts has said that the more money that comes in doesn't mean adding more base features, but rather expanding on the one's they currently have.
He said FPS, not FPP, First Person Shooter, not First Person Perspective. Its even clearer if You read some previous posts he was referring too and i just didnt wanted to included, because it made screenshot too big.
How does full discussion sound like 'walking around' to You?
They expanded FPS component with new features, but mostly because they have big, full dedicated studio on it.
--
Sure You dont, because You dont have any arguments for Your claims, so will just ignore facts.
TheVoidDragon
Member
FPS is not the same as just first-person. FPS specifically means there will be weapons that you use in first person view.
The first mention i know of about ship boarding was this less than a month after the kickstarter began:
Soon followed by this only a few days later:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12777-35-Million-Unlock
The boarding mechanics are outlined here and are exactly the same as it is now. Nothing has changed. If you really think it has, please post what you think is now different and the proof it's changed.
It's not going to be the sort of game where the FPS gameplay and things like that can be added as expansions, they're a main part of the game as well. The FPS stuff is not an unimportant side activity that isn't going to matter as much as the ships, it's a core part of their plans for the game. They've always wanted a first person living universe with the ability to fly ships (which means the ships aren't really the most important thing) rather than a ship flying game that lets you sometimes get out and do other things.
Not to mention converting the Cryengine from 32 bit to 64 bit, and adjusting and testing all of their current code for that. Thankfully with patch v1.1 most of the code under the hood is now 64 bit.
staticneuron
Member
Here......
One of the first lines from the kickstarter
The $110 pledge, the pirate package, includes a docking collar. If they didn't plan on having a FPS module why on earth would you need with that? Do you think while creating the space sim, roberts was gung ho on all formats but when thinking about pirates boarding your ship...... uhh. weapons?.... uhhh no the pirates will wave then take your stuff and you salute while they fly away.
Camp Freddie
Member
Did you read your own link?
FPS gameplay is going to be rare. Boarding actions are difficult, require significant investment in specialised equipment and will only be viable against large ships (which mean you need a large ship or a large number of like-minded players in a group).
Star Citizen is absolutely "a ship flying game that lets you sometimes get out and do other things". No-one is buying Star Citizen because we want another FPS that sometimes lets us fly a spaceship.
Personally, I suspect the FPS mode will be the worst part of the game. That stuff is hellishly hard to get right and balance, so you can't just stick it in a game like SC - even with all the money they have. They should've just stuck to an FP-explorer mode, and have boarding actions done automatically by the "marines" in your cargo hold.
I honestly have no idea how they will allow you to get out of your cockpit and personally board a ship in multiplayer. They'll have to be running the boarding simulation simultaneously with the ship-combat simulation. The netcode problems will be immense.
It could well in single-player Sq42 mode, which is the main reason I've bought the game.
staticneuron
Member
The point is that the FPS had to exist in the first place for these actions to happen. The things in AC and the FPS module do not represent what is in the final gameplay in the PU because they are competitive and allow us to play while RSI finishes S42 and the PU. So while you may not want to play it, it is handled by a specific team and has no bearing on S42 and PU outside of making sure the underlying tech is working. And again you are wrong about bigger stuff and boarding with marines, I have a link to the original kickstarter and even the drake cutlass was expected to have the ability to board other ships.
Edit for comparisons sake:
basically every multi crew ship is larger than the cutlass and should have the ability to dock and board another ship.
TheVoidDragon
Member
Yes, boarding won't happen every time but that doesn't change it's part of the game.
The game is more than just an ordinary space sim. When i said it's not a "a ship flying game that lets you sometimes get out and do other things" i meant it in the sense of your 'character' is not your ship as such. With most other ship games, getting out of them is rare, it's something you don't do often and it usually feels like it's been added on as an afterthought. That's not the case with Star Citizen.
Plenty of people are buying Star Citizen for the persistent universe, which includes the FPS stuff, social stuff and everything else that isn't just ship flying. You have an actual character that you control in first person and actually see them do things, there's far more to it than just the ships. It's more like the final game will be based around the first person universe, with the ship flying stuff being something you can chose to do. It will be possible to play the game without flying a ship yourself.
There will be no "FPS mode" or individual simulations in the finished game, it'll all be part of one seamless game.
First Person "shooting" (though not restricted solely to shooting) has been known about since the beginning.
Seriously, half the complaints lobbied against this game are due to blatant ignorance.
Right, the "modules" released so far are the lego pieces. Star Citizen is the game that will exist when all those lego pieces are connected together.
They don't have to released those modules, but they do because people want to see tangible evidence of progress in a game that has so much backing.
They don't have to released those modules, but they do because people want to see tangible evidence of progress in a game that has so much backing.
I think that's secondary to the fact that they're used for testing purposes.
Also i dont understand how people think that not employing Ilfonic for FPS module would suddenly decrease development of this game or just Squadron 42. The essencial part of S42 or whole game, the multi-crew mechanics and combat is still in development, where FPS combat is almost finished, why? Because completely different studios work on them.
Adding more developers for multi-crew combat would not increase development speed, because they already have big, dedicated team working on, but hiring new studio to handle FPS module, not only did speed development on it, but also increased it depth.
Adding more developers for multi-crew combat would not increase development speed, because they already have big, dedicated team working on, but hiring new studio to handle FPS module, not only did speed development on it, but also increased it depth.
What is embarassing is that they feel like paper ships, and AC like a FPS game.
I hope they get more people working on the flight model soon. Ships need more weight, less acceleration, and they need to nerf the mouse flight/aim. There is still time to make the dogfight flying more important. Right now its all about who can aim and click the quickest...
staticneuron
Member
You do realize Star Citizen take place in the vacuum of space right?
Would you prefer mass?
Wiktor
Member
I think it's hilarious that some people are complaining about the scale and ambition of this game. We have like ten small/smaller space sims out or upcoming. But somehow those people just won't be satisfied untill every single game of this type, Star Citizen included, becomes like that.
CyberPunked
Member
Really? Console games always deliver what they promise do they? Guessing Watch_Dogs, AC Unity, Battlefield 4, Alien Colonial Marines, and Dark Souls 2 never happened in your little world then...
Their flight model couldn't be more of an accurate representation of how spaceships would move in space. You shouldn't expect the ships to fly like planes.
staticneuron
Member
It wouldn't matter. The concept of ship needs more weight/mass, is silly given their numbers. That means there is some sort of expectation on how the game controls or feels. If the game is designed correctly you wouldn't "feel" or get the impression of the mass of your ship because there is no fight against gravity, and no wind resistance. The only thing to give you sense of speed an maneuverability is gauging in relation to any nearby mass or the read outs on your hud.
AC right now the nearby masses are large asteroids, space stations and a planet or two. You could try to compare to other ships but unless you have grasped the concept they are only fighting inertia and their power rating, not size, would affect their maneuverability then it would be another lost point to bring up.
But it is such a common expectation it is funny what people think about the experience they should be having in a vehicle traveling through space. It is almost as amusing as those people who believe that 1:1 scale for star systems is a good idea for a game.
Monthly report for March 2015: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14640-Monthly-Report-March
Rex Griswold
Member
Those are fake, everyone knows that there's nothing to show for all the time and money that CIG has received.
Sorry, I just wanted to fit in and be ridiculous.
Flow-Walker
Banned
I dropped $60 in one of the earlier ship packages when they were doing the whole "unlimited ship insurance for life" thing early in the crowdsourcing.
I did that because I wanted to support the game, and it's a genre that has long been in stasis on the PC. Much like the adventure genre needed a boost a few years ago, so does space combat. So I had no problem giving them $60 way back then.
Is the client buggy? Yes. I've had to reinstall a couple times as a patch would make it unlaunchable or something else.
But is the game done? No. And I don't recall them ever announcing it's finished.
At this point I'm fine with having what we have now knowing that the game isn't close to being finished.
If when they do say "It's done!" and it's still unplayable and buggy, then I'd probably be pissed. But not at this point so far.
I did that because I wanted to support the game, and it's a genre that has long been in stasis on the PC. Much like the adventure genre needed a boost a few years ago, so does space combat. So I had no problem giving them $60 way back then.
Is the client buggy? Yes. I've had to reinstall a couple times as a patch would make it unlaunchable or something else.
But is the game done? No. And I don't recall them ever announcing it's finished.
At this point I'm fine with having what we have now knowing that the game isn't close to being finished.
If when they do say "It's done!" and it's still unplayable and buggy, then I'd probably be pissed. But not at this point so far.
The point is there's already a million FPS games out there. It's been done. The FPS component of Star Citizen is not what excites most people about the game - it never would've made $77mil if it were just some kind of Planetside thing.
So yay, it has an FPS component and it looks neat but whoopee. How about showing us something from the actual meat of the game instead of things I can already do in a hundred other games?
The dogfighting mode is what you would consider the meat?
Yes, I would consider dogfighting the meat of a space sim. Who wouldn't?
It's the one thing they absolutely have to nail.
More_Badass
Member
In a space sim that focuses heavily on ship-to-ship combat? What do you think?
If someone wants to play a trader or miner or explorer in Star Citizen then dogfighting definitely isn't the one thing they absolutely have to nail. The thing that ties everyone together (the sandbox itself) is the important element, and we've seen dick of that.
I thought it focused heavily on "freedom" and "play the role you want to play?"
Yes, expecting to see everything finished at once (because the game values player freedom) is a reasonable response.
staticneuron
Member
My next post following that...
and
But next you respond with something mentioned already in the thread yet if any thought was given to it, you would realize it doesn't make much sense.
I responded to this train of thought in another post so here let me repost it here
The exploration, jobs, trade, and the economy should mean they have passed major milestones already and are close to release. Considering the Persistent universe Alpha is scheduled to be released end of year. The only thing I could say is wait. They are making pretty quick progress given all the systems that have to rely on each other to make up the final product.
The "sandbox itself" is basically the finished game. I'm not sure how you would see pieces of that before other pieces are in place. "Hey here's our abstract stock market thing, have fun imagining what these numbers mean".
Is there a particular non-combat part you'd like to see?
Wired just released their podcast Game|Life, subject is Star Citizen.
Seems on the same level of effort as the article itself.
Seems on the same level of effort as the article itself.