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[Burny]

You dont get the idea behind those technologies and the quote about local grids being minor issue is perfect example of that. Its the most important feature to make multi-crew to work and its a basis for anything in SC.

Please read what I said... I said basic, not minor. We're saying the same thing: it's basis for the whole rest of the game. As such, it's huge.

And therefore, I'm not as impressed with it being in working order sometime in the third year of development, hiring and training woes notwithstanding. At least from the outside that's the most visible and meaningful progress that has been made to the game. But to me, that doesn't give the most reassuring context to 400$ dreams of ships requiring game mechanics so obviously depending on the groundwork, that it's unlikely they've even started to implement them. I for one haven't seen a single mining ship in action so far. Nor a single passenger boarding an air-/spaceline ship and being flown to the other side of human inhabited space.

But it's those systems that will turn Star Citizen into a game, while the most basic features like the correct handling of object locations on the map qualify it more or less as a tech demo.

I'm not going to debate the finer points of feature creep, but Chris Roberts has always been pretty clear about Star Citizen being a 10+ years project and the fact that some (most?) features wouldn't make it into the game at the PU's launch and would in fact only come online further (years?) down the road.

They obviously have their work cut out for them and then some, but, like, some of the features you listed don't exactly scream "impossible", once you have all the basics covered. I think what's in store for Elite: Dangerous's expansion early next year is a fair indicator of that.

That's currently the best case scenario I see for Star Citizen: A slow but steady stream of expansions for years after the initial release, bringing some of the features they're dreaming up now as well as others, that they may come up with then. They're still essentially selling pledges tied to concepts for hundreds of dollars though, when there's no guarantee that these concepts will be implemented for the game at release, x years after release or even at all. At least in their current form. (Also: the features from E's expansion will be added over the course of the coming year. So yes, they take their sweet time as well).

 

[Starbuck2907]

I think RubberJohnny is saying that the systems to be programmed/designed are only part of the equation. If the level of fidelity that CR desires is to be executed, then the development of assets and how they integrate with the systems has to be a consideration.

I mean, in terms of organic assets, that's potentially:

-Models for all the different types of plants and vegetables that can be planted
--Not only different models for different types of planets/vegetables, but different states for each of the models: the plants start as buds, then grow through multiple stages, then mature or ripen, then shed or die, etc. Again, if low fidelity was desired, this could just be a simply 2-3 model progression per plant
-Potential models/textures for the different types of soil you have or need
-The rest: growth lights, the beds for the plants, etc.

A sprite or series of sprites in a 2D indie game is a different beast than a AAA 3D game, let alone at CR's standards.

Wouldn't licensing SpeedTree take care of over half of that list and greatly reduce the need for labor?

 

[RubberJohnny]

Wouldn't licensing SpeedTree take care of over half of that list and greatly reduce the need for labor?

But it won't for any of the other 30+ minigames...

 

[KKRT00]

I think RubberJohnny is saying that the systems to be programmed/designed are only part of the equation. If the level of fidelity that CR desires is to be executed, then the development of assets and how they integrate with the systems has to be a consideration.

I mean, in terms of organic assets, that's potentially:

-Models for all the different types of plants and vegetables that can be planted
--Not only different models for different types of planets/vegetables, but different states for each of the models: the plants start as buds, then grow through multiple stages, then mature or ripen, then shed or die, etc. Again, if low fidelity was desired, this could just be a simply 2-3 model progression per plant
-Potential models/textures for the different types of soil you have or need
-The rest: growth lights, the beds for the plants, etc.

A sprite or series of sprites in a 2D indie game is a different beast than a AAA 3D game, let alone at CR's standards.

I've covered it earlier with quote "if it doesnt have very complex visual representation of those mechanics" and i dont think it will have full visual representation. It will be more like mini game with additional screen or just something that will work in AR menus.

--

Please read what I said... I said basic, not minor. We're saying the same thing: it's basis for the whole rest of the game. As such, it's huge.

And therefore, I'm not as impressed with it being in working order sometime in the third year of development, hiring and training woes notwithstanding. At least from the outside that's the most visible and meaningful progress that has been made to the game. But to me, that doesn't give the most reassuring context to 400$ dreams of ships requiring game mechanics so obviously depending on the groundwork, that it's unlikely they've even started to implement them. I for one haven't seen a single mining ship in action so far. Nor a single passenger boarding an air-/spaceline ship and being flown to the other side of human inhabited space.

But it's those systems that will turn Star Citizen into a game, while the most basic features like the correct handling of object locations on the map qualify it more or less as a tech demo.

You really dont get how hard task they had and what they've accomplished on the last GC demo.
They are practically past the blocking, the most hard part of development of this game. They are almost finished with core functionality so: network handling, multi-grid system, 64bit world, grid based LOD, ships pipeline, character pipeline, character animation, UI and AR tech, texture and shader creation tech, audio tech.
Now, what they have left is content creation, DX12 transition, additional graphical features and polish.
For a just 3 years of development from the ground up it is outstanding achievement.

 

[RubberJohnny]

But it's an environment you physically walk around in, it has to have full visual representation!

I feel these things are why people are so doubtful about the game, despite the really poor track record of delivery, CIG are endlessly given the benefit of the doubt that these game designs by random non-technical staff members will not just be in the game, but all done to a ridiculously unnecessary level of complexity:

This more-or-less sounds like there's a "recipe" that is to be discovered by the farmer. Wouldn't this really defeat the point of these "exotic" plants, having the recipe easily searchable online?

There may be an answer to that: genetic drift. While a published "recipe" may provide okay to good results, variation of seed stock, plus changes to ideal conditions in subsequent generations, means that each farmer may have to adjust specifically to what they have planted.

Do you want them to last longer, looks better, taste better, have better mouth texture, grow faster, require less fertalizer, require less light? etc. you find the 'best' combination for your market. hopefully seeds + pants have traits they can pass to children, (with some random variation) or be genetically cloned for an exact copy (like current day bananas).

Like when you think that your in-game farming minigame for one configuration of a single ship will not just be a light side activity, but have coded representations of plants genetic code with defects and mutation, and that you'll stake out a valuable market segment by designing for mouthfeel in a virtual world where that concept literally doesn't exist, then you've lost all grip on reality.

 

[Cabbagehead]

But it's an environment you physically walk around in, it has to have full visual representation!

I feel these things are why people are so doubtful about the game, despite the really poor track record of delivery, CIG are endlessly given the benefit of the doubt that these game designs by random non-technical staff members will not just be in the game, but all done to a ridiculously unnecessary level of complexity:







Like when you think that your in-game farming minigame for one configuration of a single ship will not just be a light side activity, but have coded representations of plants genetic code with defects and mutation, and that you'll stake out a valuable market segment by designing for mouthfeel in a virtual world where that concept literally doesn't exist, then you've lost all grip on reality.

If your not aboard this train then get the hell off it (Though you weren't on it in the first place). Because its up to CIG rather to prove them selves or not. Its wait and see like all early projects.

Though citizencon will shut you guys up quicker rather then later. Always this type of descent without giving them a chance to try. Its like we don't know how this rodeo works? you have to try it in order for it to seem plausible and then you show it off. Because frankly we would have nothing in this world if people didn't try to push things. Also why is one is the things that you are getting concerned about? when there are ten other things that CIG are doing right now that are far more complicated and seemingly almost finished to be put into the game already.

Plus CIG has always said there would be mini game's of sorts for these type of things but its all about if they are interesting to the player, and so people (us) will testing this stuff up to make it works. None of this is one and done. Since PU alpha will be from this year to at least middle of next year.


Regardless of that though you can't just make this type of stuff and half ass, so they don't.

 

[Burny]

You really dont get how hard task they had and what they've accomplished on the last GC demo.
They are practically past the blocking, the most hard part of development of this game. They are almost finished with core functionality so: network handling, multi-grid system, 64bit world, grid based LOD, ships pipeline, character pipeline, character animation, UI and AR tech, texture and shader creation tech, audio tech.
Now, what they have left is content creation, DX12 transition, additional graphical features and polish.
For a just 3 years of development from the ground up it is outstanding achievement.

Maybe I get it, maybe I don't. Maybe you don't get it either, but just believe instead? You keep repeating all those terms CIG have been mentioning in their presentations, their updates and the explanations why things got delayed. I don't particularly care how long it takes them to get the groundwork right or how hard it is. They can take two more years, if that's what they need (it just killed off my personal hype completely, but that may come again if the game delivers eventually).

"Just three years" for the development of their most basic and important engine feature though? And all they have left to do is content creation (I suspect SQ42 is well underway, but I am talking about the PU here)? If I were the type, I would laugh out loud at that. How many percents of the actual man hours put into a game do you think does the content creation account for? I have a hunch that it's somewhere in the 70%-90% range. From design, specification, implementation to bug fixing and iteration.

Taking that as a context, my main issue with the project currently is that their continued funding strategy is starting to feel a little abusive when I take their current technical progress as context. I've pledged somewhere north of 400$. That's what I was more or less comfortable giving them while I was still completely enamoured with Star Citizen as a project, so they would be able to make the game. If the project crashes ur turns out below my expectations? My loss. Signs of missing my personal expectations are showing: hub levels with auto pilot approach sequences vs. seemless worlds, controller disparity debacle etc.. If the game turns out great, then all for the better - I will have done a very small part to get it there and I will be happy.

However: Similar to adding stretch goals after the multi mio. dollar mark, they now keep selling pledges tied to dream ships (or the other way round) that are only useful if the game implements a specific functionality. Taking into consideration how expensive these pledges are, how long even basic functionality has taken them to implement without any game logic on the horizon, how many of such pledge packages there are or have been and how little any pledger gets in return until these things will finally be implemented and available, this is starting to feel uncomfortable. Not because I don't trust them to work hard to realize all these concepts or because I doubt their ability to eventually implement each of those concept in some form (years down the road I fear and possibly not quiet as grand as they may sound now...), but because it's looking to me like Sci-Fi/Star Citizen fans willing to spend real money are being milked for all they're worth - without any clear commitment by CIG when those concepts they're selling will be realized. And because it's unsure whether they will be in the game at all, because they might decide to cut or significantly alter features if the development and future blockers they'll encounter (time, budget, technical issues...) require them to do so.

Sure, it's anybody's personal business what they're spending their money on, but some games (free2play games, especially) take advantage of the compulsion of their players and I'm starting to count Star Citizen among them.

On the other hand, there are things that might make me feel easier about the pledges and possibly get me to pledge more myself:

- Non-substantial pledge amounts. We're currently talking about hundreds of dollars for ships, not a tenner here & there.
- Clear commitments to a timeline for these concepts to which they may be held: Say - mining will be available in a 2017 expansion, passenger spacelines in 2018 etc. (edit: possibly refund if they aren't!).
- Disentangling the pledges from concepts and ships (at least the big ones): If CIG needs money to continue, they ought to say so. Keep offering pledges, but give people badges or other insubstantial rewards for them. Currently people seem to be building imaginary fantasy star fleets from ship concepts based on speculation what those fleets will be able to do in the game, when it's even unsure whether those fleets will be in the game or work the way that is suggested or people imagine in the first place. Or even fit into one game instance. That's were they're taking advantage of people's compulsions imho.
- Of course: having a working PU in alpha state and seeing that the implementation of those concepts has at least started (now!). Which is fantasy and therefore beside the point.

 

[RubberJohnny]

Also, today is October the 1st, so they've officially missed the second deadline for Star Marine (the first was "this year" given in June 2014). We're nearly a year late and all of the alphas unique features like zero-G, jukes and so on are being removed to get it out soon.

But it's up to them to prove themselves, I guess.

I think CitizenCon will be all about Squadron 42 and I'm quite looking forward to that and it sounds like it's progressing fine (I think being on the other side of an ocean from CRoberts micromanagement helps), so I don't think it'll convince anyone concerned with the development of the titular persistent universe.

 

[Kabouter]

I think CitizenCon will be all about Squadron 42 and I'm quite looking forward to that and it sounds like it's progressing fine (I think being on the other side of an ocean from CRoberts micromanagement helps), so I don't think it'll convince anyone concerned with the development of the titular persistent universe.

Well, he's there for a few weeks now according to 10 for the Chairman, so he can slow their progress right down I'm sure.

 

[Dictator93]

I think CitizenCon will be all about Squadron 42 and I'm quite looking forward to that and it sounds like it's progressing fine (I think being on the other side of an ocean from CRoberts micromanagement helps), so I don't think it'll convince anyone concerned with the development of the titular persistent universe.

Well, he's there for a few weeks now according to 10 for the Chairman, so he can slow their progress right down I'm sure.

Is this going to be the new meme? Where everyone thinks CR is incompetent?

I guess we should just forget about all the pre-free lancer games. :/

Spoiler

I think kabouter is kidding though

The whole world was built in 7. So I don't think people's expectations are unrealistic

lol

 

[tuxfool]

Is this going to be the new meme? Where everyone thinks CR is incompetent?

I guess we should just forget about all the pre-free lancer games. :/

Spoiler

I think kabouter is kidding though

It isn't about running away with the money or buying Ferraris any more. New meme is CR going to studios and installing handbrakes in every project.

 

[Kabouter]

Is this going to be the new meme? Where everyone thinks CR is incompetent?

I guess we should just forget about all the pre-free lancer games. :/

Spoiler

I think kabouter is kidding though

Being serious, I certainly don't think he is incompetent, but as I've said many times, I would have much more confidence in things if he had someone above him who could keep his enthusiasm in check.

 

[SmartBase]

Being serious, I certainly don't think he is incompetent, but as I've said many times, I would have much more confidence in things if he had someone above him who could keep his enthusiasm in check.

Hasn't this role historically been speculated to be taken by the other Roberts, Erin? Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

 

[KKRT00]

But it's an environment you physically walk around in, it has to have full visual representation!

Sure, like domes will be fully designed and full of beautiful art, but i dont think this art or visual representation in general will change with every new plant or research You do. For that it will be a mini game, at least thats the most sane solution.

----

Maybe I get it, maybe I don't. Maybe you don't get it either, but just believe instead? You keep repeating all those terms CIG have been mentioning in their presentations, their updates and the explanations why things got delayed. I don't particularly care how long it takes them to get the groundwork right or how hard it is. They can take two more years, if that's what they need (it just killed off my personal hype completely, but that may come again if the game delivers eventually).

"Just three years" for the development of their most basic and important engine feature though? And all they have left to do is content creation (I suspect SQ42 is well underway, but I am talking about the PU here)? If I were the type, I would laugh out loud at that. How many percents of the actual man hours put into a game do you think does the content creation account for? I have a hunch that it's somewhere in the 70%-90% range. From design, specification, implementation to bug fixing and iteration.

I work in software development environment in much, much smaller scale and we have a lot of problems still, with many delays, client support problems that takes away tons of development time, unexpected features that needs to be programmed to work first and so on. I cant even imagine how complex their setup must be and how bugs and not expected before features can mess the whole development flow up.

The second thing that i know about software development is that processes are the key to proper flow of development. There is a reason why they reworked some processes, like ship creation, animation, textures or tech behind physics few times. Its because You need those to fast and synchronized development between many people and studios and it must be future proof and thats extremely hard to do.
There is a reason why they made ArcCorp first and try to polish it and plan all the shops and AI, because it will create the workflow for all other environments, the same goes for ships, space station etc.
And its not like they do not make assets already, i mean we saw tons of assets from leaks or previews that are not available to the public, like we havent seen anything from Squadron 42 for example.

Ps. I pledged for 35$, because i know, i will be able to get anything i want by just playing a game.

 

[staticneuron]

There are alot of things to address in this post but let us make this to the point.

"Just three years" for the development of their most basic and important engine feature though? And all they have left to do is content creation (I suspect SQ42 is well underway, but I am talking about the PU here)? If I were the type, I would laugh out loud at that. How many percents of the actual man hours put into a game do you think does the content creation account for? I have a hunch that it's somewhere in the 70%-90% range. From design, specification, implementation to bug fixing and iteration.

Do you believe the S42 work will be insignificant? Have you looked at the leaked information? They have alot created in terms of content that we are without a doubt going to see in PU. Their work, no matter which team is cumulative effect to the PU.

Similar to adding stretch goals after the multi mio. dollar mark, they now keep selling pledges tied to dream ships (or the other way round) that are only useful if the game implements a specific functionality. Taking into consideration how expensive these pledges are, how long even basic functionality has taken them to implement without any game logic on the horizon, how many of such pledge packages there are or have been and how little any pledger gets in return until these things will finally be implemented and available, this is starting to feel uncomfortable.

You really give the impression here that they just added these concept ships to stretch goals. They aren't just adding ships, this was part of the funding stretch goals (which they ceased), people voted on and discussed about a year ago which of the ships they would like to see come out. People have been anticipating this particular ship. People have been anticipating these ships since they have been announced.

On the other hand, there are things that might make me feel easier about the pledges and possibly get me to pledge more myself:

- Non-substantial pledge amounts. We're currently talking about hundreds of dollars for ships, not a tenner here & there.

and this

- Disentangling the pledges from concepts and ships (at least the big ones): If CIG needs money to continue, they ought to say so. Keep offering pledges, but give people badges or other insubstantial rewards for them. Currently people seem to be building imaginary fantasy star fleets from ship concepts based on speculation what those fleets will be able to do in the game, when it's even unsure whether those fleets will be in the game or work the way that is suggested or people imagine in the first place. Or even fit into one game instance. That's were they're taking advantage of people's compulsions imho.

Are tied together

They do, make it clear that pledges for these ships fund development of game so many times this has been discussed they put this on almost everyone of their sales now

Remember: we are offering this pledge ship to help fund Star Citizen’s development. The funding generated by sales such as this is what allows us to include deeper, non-combat oriented features in the Star Citizen world. Concept ships will be available for in-game credits in the final universe, and they are not required to start the game.

The pledges are to fund the game and the major ships themselves will take time to implement the subsystems. Of course this means more time and if you are ok with that then pledge, if not, then don't worry about it. Complaining about the price is irrelevant because you do not have to get them and they can be acquired in game.

- Clear commitments to a timeline for these concepts to which they may be held: Say - mining will be available in a 2017 expansion, passenger spacelines in 2018 etc. (edit: possibly refund if they aren't!).

No matter how much is shown people keep on nailing them to the cross if they miss the deadline so that would be silly. How about this. If you do not feel comfortable pledging then do not pledge any more.

- Of course: having a working PU in alpha state and seeing that the implementation of those concepts has at least started (now!). Which is fantasy and therefore beside the point.

They are working on that. That was the entire point of their original pitch was the PU.

You say you believe that they will get it working but you are basically making a long winded post describing that you don't believe they will get it working anytime in this century and the only way it will make you feel comfortable is if you see something close to the final product released. Well, almost every average person feels that way. Ignoring what they have done and how long it took to get here, means that your opinions about time are not based on the technical barriers they have crossed it simply seems like you would be more comfortable with the product released.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

That was the entire point of their original pitch was the PU.

Actually S42 was the original pitch, the PU was a stretch goal.

 

[Outrun]

I spent around $300 on this game a couple of years ago. When is SQ42 coming out? Rough ETA?

 

[Dictator93]

I spent around $300 on this game a couple of years ago. When is SQ42 coming out? Rough ETA?

Find out on October 10th.

Being serious, I certainly don't think he is incompetent, but as I've said many times, I would have much more confidence in things if he had someone above him who could keep his enthusiasm in check.

I get the impression that is Erin Robert's new position.

 

[Burny]

Do you believe the S42 work will be insignificant? Have you looked at the leaked information? They have alot created in terms of content that we are without a doubt going to see in PU. Their work, no matter which team is cumulative effect to the PU.

The leak mostly contained assets of human/alien combat ships, didn't it? In that case it might not tell us that much about the PU - especially not about the state of the game logic and balancing of the mechanics from their non-combat oriented concepts.

You say you believe that they will get it working but you are basically making a long winded post describing that you don't believe they will get it working anytime in this century and the only way it will make you feel comfortable is if you see something close to the final product released. Well, almost every average person feels that way. Ignoring what they have done and how long it took to get here, means that your opinions about time are not based on the technical barriers they have crossed it simply seems like you would be more comfortable with the product released.

Actually I'm doing the opposite: I'm considering what they have done, how large a part of the game they're dreaming up that might constitute, and look at how complex and numerous the concepts they keep publishing seem in relation to that. While I believe they could implement all of those concepts separately, given enough time and continued funding, I'm starting to have severe doubts that they'll be able to do so without cutting corners - possibly severly. From the outside, the pace at which they publish concepts just seems to outstrip the pace at which they get the PU into shape to support those considerably.

 

[RubberJohnny]

This is quite the article: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...alk-Star-Citizen-and-the-State-of-the-Company

Looks like people let go as Austin becomes Dev Ops only are spilling the beans anonymously.

"$90 million for what he's pitching, even with a competent leadership, you couldn't do," CS1 wrote. "The thing you have to remember about Chris Roberts is that, before this, he hadn't made a game in twelve years. He has no concept of what can and can't be done today with that amount of money, or for a game like this. Chris Roberts hadn't made a game in twelve years, and he was actively ignoring the input of people who have been in and a part of the industry that entire time."

The popular consensus among most of the people who reached out is that Chris Roberts is not intentionally a con man. "He doesn't set out in the morning to screw anybody over. He's just incredibly arrogant," CS2 stated.

I guess that's a meme though...

Multiple sources from within the company stated that the Pacific Palisades mansion that Chris Roberts shares with Sandi Gardiner is being paid for with funds from the company, along with the couple's personal vehicles and personal vacations.

CS5 stated that Gardiner would be out of the country on vacation or auditioning for movie or television roles, allegedly paid for with company money, but would post images of the office - taken by another employee - to make it appear as though she was at work. Multiple sources confided that several videos were filmed using company resources and employees, both in Cloud Imperium Games' offices and in the couple's home.

Tales of first class travels, lavish lifestyles, and seven figure combined annual salaries were near-universally reported. Several sources pointed to one concrete example of potential fund mismanagement, however, and statements from both Cloud Imperium Games and their partner, Turbulent, appear to add some level of credibility to the claim.

Meanwhile, that's fraud.

 

[Machina]

Jesus that's a harsh article. I'm looking forward to the response from CIG

 

[Zalusithix]

Multiple sources know how stuff is being paid for? Somehow I doubt that. Not many people are going to have a direct look at the accounting books. Unless they go around flaunting that the company is picking up the tab for X, Y, and Z, I'd say it's mostly employee conjecture.

 

[Dictator93]

As someone who is capable of healthy skepticism: that article is full of a lot of grave accusations including bigotry, racism, and a surprising amount of vitriol concerning specific persons. Including accusations that money is being spent for personal housing expenditures. Sounds like a derek smart wet dream.

I have no idea what to make of it.

In fact. I would like to ask that reporter if they talked to these sources through skype in person. And yeah, I do mean that seriously given the gravity of the accusations.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Yikes. Sounds like one or two of those employees must have worked in or with Accounting.

Those are some serious allegations, though.

 

[RubberJohnny]

I imagine/hope whoever wrote it ran it past legal, because they're opening themselves up to being sued if it's incorrect.

The Turbulent stuff about diverting funds actually seems supported by public PR statements though, and explains why they never managed to do Organisations 2.0 or the Star Map despite having 18 months.

 

[Machina]

Without knowing the validity of the article, shit like this really makes me question it. Stuff like this screams clickbait.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Without knowing the validity of the article, shit like this really makes me question it. Stuff like this screams clickbait.

What are we looking at here?

 

[Machina]

What are we looking at here?

Over at the Escapist Forums, you earn these things called Badges for doing certain things eg reading however many articles.

The pic is the badge you receive for reading THIS article.

 

[RubberJohnny]

You think someone made legal-risking statements in a public facing document for the real reason of a lame joke on some back-end forum?

I know people have a lot of money invested in this and get defensive as a result, but that's cloud-cuckooland conspiracies.

 

[Machina]

You think someone made legal-risking statements in a public facing document for the real reason of a lame joke on some back-end forum?

I know people have a lot of money invested in this and get defensive as a result, but that's cloud-cuckooland.

I'm invested in SC and I am willing to believe anything that is reported, but not when they have nothing but anonymous sources. Articles like that are useless.

 

[Dictator93]

I am quite serious in the fact that I think that such accusations need to be based more than in just e-mails in this day in age.

It is easy to assume a separate troll identity and get people to write anything on the internet, especially for click-based media.

You think someone made legal-risking statements in a public facing document for the real reason of a lame joke on some back-end forum?

I know people have a lot of money invested in this and get defensive as a result, but that's cloud-cuckooland conspiracies.

We are dealing with "multiple sources" all of whom are obviously held anonymous. Secondly, this makes incredibly gravve accusations: ones which cause people to go to jail.

I think one needs more than references to non-photo captioned emails. I really think i t is important to confirm these people are actually who they say they are.

 

[RubberJohnny]

Anonymous statements are the only way a story like this would ever come out - no one is going to destroy their future working in the industry over complaining about a bad working environment or whistleblowing fraud.

 

[Fehyd]

I'm invested in SC and I am willing to believe anything that is reported, but not when they have nothing but anonymous sources. Articles like that are useless.

Depends on the type of anonymous source. An anonymous source in journalism is different from "anonymous" all together.

Usually the person writing the article, and their editor knows who the anonymous source really is.

 

[moggio]

Star Citizen is science fiction.

I feel sorry for all the people who have wasted their money on this vanity project.

 

[Agremont]

Star Citizen is science fiction.

I feel sorry for all the people who have wasted their money on this vanity project.

Let's wait a bit with the doomsday shit.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Anonymous statements are the only way a story like this would ever come out - no one is going to destroy their future working in the industry over complaining about a bad working environment or whistleblowing fraud.

Knowing how insular gaming is, like other industries being a whistleblower is damaging to your career.

Depends on the type of anonymous source. An anonymous source in journalism is different from "anonymous" all together.

Usually the person writing the article, and their editor knows who the anonymous source really is.

This is also true, Escapist has to have verified the sources to put that out there or be open to libel suits like Rolling Stone was.


It may be some confirmation bias but some of the "softer" points of the article make sense like the "leaks" from Sandi's Facebook posts being done or the info with the web service people from MTL. Either way thirse are very, very serious accusations that are have potentially criminal implications.

 

[Danthrax]

Depends on the type of anonymous source. An anonymous source in journalism is different from "anonymous" all together.

Usually the person writing the article, and their editor knows who the anonymous source really is.

 

[RubberJohnny]

This bit is exactly what I was just talking about before this story came out about all those design documents - just crazy stuff written by non-technical people who didn't know the actual performance issues or whatever of what they were writing, just given to get players fantasising about genetic drift in their space crops and theorycrafting about selective breeding for virtual mouthfeel:

One former employee compared the campaign for Star Citizen to the back of a book.

"You pick up a book, and what's the first thing you do? You read the back. The back is the best part of the book, because you can project what your experience is going to be. And usually the book isn't as good as what you imagine it will be," CS2 said. "With [Roberts], it would be, like, 'look at these beautiful renders of characters, and of this spaceship.' But none of it was real. He shows some artwork, and then people project what their experience is going to be. Like the back of a book."

 

[Machina]

Depends on the type of anonymous source. An anonymous source in journalism is different from "anonymous" all together.

Usually the person writing the article, and their editor knows who the anonymous source really is.

That doesn't help the reader (prospective consumer), does it. They're being told very serious accusations and have absolutely no way to verify it. So in short they're doing nothing but slandering CIG.

To look at it from another perspective, this sort of savage media environment is exactly the reason why publishers rush games these days, not just to stick to a shareholders timetable, but also to avoid their game being branded as vaporware thus scaring the investors away.

 

[Fehyd]

That doesn't help the reader (prospective consumer), does it. They're being told very serious accusations and have absolutely no way to verify it. So in short they're doing nothing but slandering CIG.

To look at it from another perspective, this sort of savage media environment is exactly the reason why publishers rush games these days, not just to stick to a shareholders timetable, but also to avoid their game being branded as vaporware thus scaring the investors away.

It's up to the reader to decide for themselves if the news is credible. You're basically taking issue with something that has existed in all forms of journalism since it became untenable for a judge to force a journalist to give up their anonymous sources.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Let's wait a bit with the doomsday shit.

Yeah, this.

I think it's clear that *something* at CIG is in disarray--whether it's misuse of funds, CEO with an ego, poor development and design processes, etc., I don't know. I don't think it means SC is dead or dying, though.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

That doesn't help the reader (prospective consumer), does it. They're being told very serious accusations and have absolutely no way to verify it. So in short they're doing nothing but slandering CIG.
.

The trust is with EiC of Escapist. Like every other whistleblower story, the publication has to back up what the confidential source is saying.

 

[Dictator93]

Depends on the type of anonymous source. An anonymous source in journalism is different from "anonymous" all together.

Usually the person writing the article, and their editor knows who the anonymous source really is.

Assuming they are competent. Yes.

We also live in an age of active disinformation on the internet. I think it requires more rigour than email exchanges.

 

[Fehyd]

Assuming they are competent. Yes.

We also live in an age of active disinformation on the internet. I think it requires more rigour than email exchanges.

If that's true then we'll see escapist get hit and lose a weighty lawsuit in much the same way gawker has.

Although, last I knew escapist didn't have as large a legal department or as much cash as gawker so something like this would have had to been vetted immensely by the editorial staff.

 

[Agremont]

Chris Roberts responds.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14979-Chairmans-Response-To-The-Escapist

"The only person who is famous for being a blowhard, bully, an awful game developer and human being is Derek Smart."

Ouch lol.

 

[tuxfool]

The trust is with EiC of Escapist. Like every other whistleblower story, the publication has to back up what the confidential source is saying.

Have you seen the kind of shit that the escapist aligns itself these days?

 

[Anton Sugar]

If that's true then we'll see escapist get hit and lose a weighty lawsuit in much the same way gawker has.

Although, last I knew escapist didn't have as large a legal department or as much cash as gawker so something like this would have had to been vetted immensely by the editorial staff.

Yeah, I'm sure CIG will respond in some way. Could get interesting.

EDIT: Damn, that's a length response! Gonna have to read over lunch.

 

[Machina]

So Derek Smart WAS the kickoff. Why did The Escapist not include Chris response before they posted?

 

[staticneuron]

Actually S42 was the original pitch, the PU was a stretch goal.

well

the original kickstarter page

What they pitched

Real quick, Star Citizen is:

A rich universe focused on epic space adventure, trading and dogfighting in first person.
Single Player – Offline or Online(Drop in / Drop out co-op play)
Persistent Universe (hosted by US)
Mod-able multiplayer (hosted by YOU)
No Subscriptions
No Pay to Win

At its core Star Citizen is a destination, not a one-off story. It's a complete universe where any number of adventures can take place, allowing players to decide their own game experience. Pick up jobs as a smuggler, pirate, merchant, bounty hunter, or enlist as a pilot, protecting the borders from outside threats. Chris Roberts has always wanted to create one cohesive universe that encompasses everything that made Wing Commander and Privateer / Freelancer special. A huge sandbox with a complex and deep lore allowing players to explore or play in whatever capacity they wish. That universe is Star Citizen.

The timeline based off meeting goal

The people who pledge for their spaceships will get to test-fly them long before the general public. 12 months in, we will allow the early backers to play the multiplayer space combat Alpha, and then 20-22 months in they will get to play the Star Citizen Beta, adventuring around the huge open galaxy, well before the general public.

but they also put the caveat

You as the customer get the ultimate vote in whether we make this game. Your dollars are your votes and the better we do the more resources we’ll have to bring you a great game.

So they never pitched the idea that S42 was the main and the PU was extended. It was pitched that Star Citizen is the PU and the s42 is a component in it. The only thing you could point to is a development schedule and scale and that was most likely based off of current budget at the time.

Draftfaq

We intend to build the game that Chris Roberts described at GDC Online regardless, but without additional funding we are going to have to do it one piece at a time, starting with Squadron 42, rather than as a single larger production. With more funding we can include more ships, systems, unique locations, animations and cinematic sequences.

That post stated that without additional funding they would have started with S42 only. They surpassed that before kickstarter ended so off course nature of the project changed.

You must realize that around the time of that post(October 16th 2012) the kickstarter had not started yet (October 19th 2012) and even with help from investors, it would have been hard to take him seriously if he was going to try to make the PU first then S42 without additional funding. You could basically tell based off of the budget goals that when the funding hit 30 million the entire project including s42 was going to be a different beast. But there has been communication every step of the way, so there was no surprises, no sudden lapses of logic. They have met their deadlines so far so if they mention the PU alpha will be out by end of the year there is absolutely no reason not to believe because so far they have delivered. Even if your don't think the way it was delivered was correct that doesn't detract from the fact that they have produced results.

EDIT: TBH the original Video describes it all in the kickstarter about what they wanted to do, the funding just changed "how" the goals will be attained.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

They've still got to develop effectively 3 different indie games for each new ship that they're creating - that's huge scope creep, and unless you're going to have low-poly or pixel assets sitting next to high poly ones, it is going to be a bigger job than one or two man.

There's a big breakdown of old promises here, and it includes far more than that list of mine: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitize...ping_em_honest_take_ii_a_breakdown_of_claims/. They don't seem to have completed a single one in the last year.

All those 10FTC links really emphasize that Chris just says stuff and then immediately forgets it. Run your own business! Shuttles for big ships down to planets! Changeable ship gravity! Player characters ageing! Ancestral trees for your characters! Play as other alien races! Player influenced politics! Engine tuning! Your own personal R2D2 repair bot companion! Managing your ship from your onboard bed! Space creatures!

Just because we haven't seen any of them yet doesn't mean they aren't being worked on at all. It doesn't make much sense to show those when at the moment the focus is getting the core game finished, i expect once they've got the the persistent universe running then we'll start seeing that sort of thing.

Obviously there won't be everything right at the start but they are things that they are planning on including at some point.

Actually S42 was the original pitch, the PU was a stretch goal.

The original kickstarter page mentions the persistent universe, it was definitely part of the initial pitch.