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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 10: Against the Odds, We Choose to Hype!
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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Space pirate
Karsticles
Member
I dont like the unlocks, but it takes an hour or two to get everyone. Really no big deal.
Well it's not like SSE was the only way to unlock characters. Every one had a special objective for unlocking them, just like 64 and Melee. SSE was just another method and made unlocking easier.
For the record I am all for unlocking characters. I'll be pretty disappointed if everyone is unlocked from the start in Smash 4.
Technically at least five hours thanks to Mewtwo.
It doesn't.
" well you don't have to deal with the bad game design for too long "
actually you do and its still bad.
JStein0222
Member
Here's how I see unlockable content:
- I love the smash series and plan on playing every character extenisvely (well, at the beginning at least). So I never mind going through single player content and unlocking people that way, gives you a good excuse to play as all those characters you might not have spent as much time with.
- there are so many characters (old and new) that the initial roster feels like more than enough characters for when you first get the game: "I have 25 characters here, but I want more even though I haven't played as any of them yet!" - come on. So when you do unlock characters, it gives you a nice progression. Almost like if they were all unlocked from the start, you would have so many choices that on some level it's too many initially - you gotta build up to it.
- Knowing the final roster (like I'm sure we all will) and having to unlock your favorite character probably blows. I would hope that we are all hyped enough for the whole game that we will be satisfied no matter what, but who knows.
- In the grand scheme of things, unlocks provide a small amount of joy in comparison to how much we're gonna play the game. So might as well start with the rosters as how it will be for 99% of the time we play the game (all unlocked)
But here's my most important reason for having unlocks (though I personally am torn on whether I want them or not)
- Remember when you were younger and playing 64 or, in my case melee? I didn't know anything about the characters available or how to unlock them. After playing an insane amount of versus matches with my brothers we got the "challenger approaching" message. We thought we had unlocked everything... And there I was, thrown into a battle against one of my all time favorite Pokemon - Mewtwo. Who am I to rob some kid of an awesome memory like that?
- I love the smash series and plan on playing every character extenisvely (well, at the beginning at least). So I never mind going through single player content and unlocking people that way, gives you a good excuse to play as all those characters you might not have spent as much time with.
- there are so many characters (old and new) that the initial roster feels like more than enough characters for when you first get the game: "I have 25 characters here, but I want more even though I haven't played as any of them yet!" - come on. So when you do unlock characters, it gives you a nice progression. Almost like if they were all unlocked from the start, you would have so many choices that on some level it's too many initially - you gotta build up to it.
- Knowing the final roster (like I'm sure we all will) and having to unlock your favorite character probably blows. I would hope that we are all hyped enough for the whole game that we will be satisfied no matter what, but who knows.
- In the grand scheme of things, unlocks provide a small amount of joy in comparison to how much we're gonna play the game. So might as well start with the rosters as how it will be for 99% of the time we play the game (all unlocked)
But here's my most important reason for having unlocks (though I personally am torn on whether I want them or not)
- Remember when you were younger and playing 64 or, in my case melee? I didn't know anything about the characters available or how to unlock them. After playing an insane amount of versus matches with my brothers we got the "challenger approaching" message. We thought we had unlocked everything... And there I was, thrown into a battle against one of my all time favorite Pokemon - Mewtwo. Who am I to rob some kid of an awesome memory like that?
Godzilla's Left Toe
Member
Wow somebody actually posted funny fan art in this thread.
Geminosity
Member
Fair enough, sorry if I jumped down your throat a bit :3
Wait, you mean the DLC model? That's kind of a different 'unlock' XD
She makes Roy look inspired.
Akuma's a bit different; he's only playable through that method. Otherwise you're just facing him as a boss.
Freezie KO
Banned
I'm against unlockables in multiplayer games, but at least all of Smash's game modes are fun (for me).
I think it was Call of Duty Black Ops where very valuable perks were locked behind certain game mode challenges. This meant you had to grind a game type you didn't even like to get an important perk so you cold play it in the modes you do like. That's the worst.
We haven't seen all her moves and physics and whatnot yet, but even if she's just a faster Marth clone, at least there's a game-specific reason for why that makes sense.
I think it was Call of Duty Black Ops where very valuable perks were locked behind certain game mode challenges. This meant you had to grind a game type you didn't even like to get an important perk so you cold play it in the modes you do like. That's the worst.
We haven't seen all her moves and physics and whatnot yet, but even if she's just a faster Marth clone, at least there's a game-specific reason for why that makes sense.
OricWindstar
Member
Awesome, thanks!
It would be a way for people to quickly unlock all of the characters in a non-obvious way that isn't known at release.
Hey, so, if you could hook me up with an avatarized FemRobin, I'd mad appreciate it.We mustn't keep a lady waiting
edit: fixed
OricWindstar
Member
If you want, I'm happy to do it as well. I've actually already got it partially done due to making Heath the male variant.
PadWarrior
Member
Welcome!
I'd love you for it, dude.
I love you
The Great Gonzales
Member
That all depends on who your favorite character is. Mine's Luigi: it's a foregone conclusion that he'll be unlockable, so I won't be at all disappointed or annoyed that he's not on the starting roster. And, really, most unlocks in Smash are easy enough (and we'll be playing the game so much) that we'll have the full roster at our disposal in no time.
This, for me, is the main thing. Even if I know the whole roster ahead of time, and there are no more surprises, nothing beats the thrill of getting a new tile on the character select screen. I get that not everyone feels this way, which is why I'd support a cheat code or something to instantly unlock everyone, but I'd hate to have everyone unlocked from the get-go, because then I'd miss out on the unlocking experience.
OricWindstar
Member
I love love! Do you want any color changes to the background to differentiate it from Heath's? For comparison:
Maybe put a code in the game, but don't tell the public about for like 2-3 months?
Megalosaro
Banned
Explain why it's "bad game design".
Bad game design is something like tripping in Brawl. Unlockables are designed to keep the game interesting for an extended period of time
Mr. Smiley
Member
Nah, I like unlockable characters but that's arguably just as worse as blazing through SSE unlocking everything. Might as well just have it unlocked from the get go.
Yes it's optional but it tells me there's an easy out eliminating any sense of real challenge or suspense in unlocking.
Freezie KO
Banned
By the way, D1 (Melee and Smash Invitational commentator) was on a podcast tonight and said he continues to stay in touch with NoA in order to grow the Smash 4 community.
While I wouldn't break down into tears of disappointed hopelessness if there are no unlockable characters in Smash 4, I really do enjoy having characters be unlockable. It's always fun the first time you unlock a character, it's a little something extra added to the game.
I suppose I can understand people's frustration with not having the character they want to play unlocked, but that has never bothered me. I just play someone else. I play all the characters pretty regularly (except DK, MK, Pit and Ganondorf, characters I just never quite got the hang of). Yes, I play Smash Bros regularly enough to main 31 characters.
Edit: I think the best option is for the game to have unlockable characters, but make unlocks transferable from 3DS to Wii U. That way, at tournaments, if you need to make sure all the characters are unlocked, just have someone with a complete game on 3DS walk around and sync with each Wii U. There's no reason not to have that transfer unlockable costumes and custom moves as well. It feels like the Treehouse was hinting at that in their stream, but that could just be my wishful thinking.
If you don't know anybody who has the 3DS version and played it enough to unlock everything before the Wii U release, well, can't please everyone.
I suppose I can understand people's frustration with not having the character they want to play unlocked, but that has never bothered me. I just play someone else. I play all the characters pretty regularly (except DK, MK, Pit and Ganondorf, characters I just never quite got the hang of). Yes, I play Smash Bros regularly enough to main 31 characters.
Edit: I think the best option is for the game to have unlockable characters, but make unlocks transferable from 3DS to Wii U. That way, at tournaments, if you need to make sure all the characters are unlocked, just have someone with a complete game on 3DS walk around and sync with each Wii U. There's no reason not to have that transfer unlockable costumes and custom moves as well. It feels like the Treehouse was hinting at that in their stream, but that could just be my wishful thinking.
If you don't know anybody who has the 3DS version and played it enough to unlock everything before the Wii U release, well, can't please everyone.
PadWarrior
Member
LOL thanks.
Like a darkish red, maybe? To rep my existing avatar, haha. Unless that looks bad, in which case, whatever, uh, doesn't.I love love! Do you want any color changes to the background to differentiate it from Heath's? For comparison:
JStein0222
Member
I agree, there's just a feeling when that screen comes up and you have to defeat X to unlock them. It's awesome!
OricWindstar
Member
That's really cool! I'm sure he doesn't have that much sway, but still nice there's a connection.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
It's bad game design in the fact that it imposes arbitrary goals onto the player in order to unlock the part of the game they actually want to experience as a way to artificially lenghen it's playtime, same as getting to an RPG boss that is 20+ levels more than your entire party, forcing you to level grind.
Freezie KO
Banned
He's under an NDA and can't say much, but he said he expects big things as long as Smashers don't act like total assholes. Although he said it nicer than that.
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I tend to agree with this. It's just arbitrary work. I'll continue to play the game because it's fun, not because I need to fill bars or unlock characters.
JStein0222
Member
Hmm don't know how I would feel about unlocking characters a second time in the Wii U version though...
Killer Instinct is pretty reasonable. The DLC made is new content and purchasing the game gets you all 8 of the intended original characters (including the two that had to be delayed).
I wouldn't mind Smash Bros having new DLC characters if, in the same way, they're not Capcom-style cut from the game or locked on the disc. New original content for paid DLC=good. Content that was already programmed and just not present=bad.
This doesn't really have much to do with unblockables though.
Yeah. Should at least be an option if they want this to be a tourney contender.
OricWindstar
Member
Oh, that's even cooler! Loving Nintendo's attitude to the fans lately.
falconxcrunner09
Member
Don't know if this was posted but I saw it on r/smashbros
Geminosity
Member
Some interesting thoughts and I'm glad people enjoy those moments but I guess the whole unlocking thing in general kind hit me from left field. I remember when I first noticed it creeping into most games when playing golden-eye and had to unlock charactes and levels for multiplayer via doing single player. I was baffled by the whole thing.
Fast forward to smash and stuff and I still guess it's at most a curiosity to me... Oddly I still enjoy the transient stuff more than the permanent stuff for some reason. No idea why but horses for courses and all that :3
As someone who mained Cammy in the original Streetfighter 4, I can unhappily say I spent a lot more than just an hour or two having to unlock her, but that's just down to a streak of coming across people or stations with no save and not having a memory card to bring a copy of my own along. I'm sure at tournies it's not such an issue but casually it was a nightmare XD
In a game where all all the female characters fight with bizarre stuff like magic, utensils, vegetables and futuristic ordinance, a swordswoman is positively exotic by comparison to swordsman number 2 or 3
JB-the-Hunter
Member
What podcast?
Don't know if this was posted but I saw it on r/smashbros
Flawless. At first I wondered why Lucina was on there twice before I realized lol
Yup.
I remember someone quickly scrambled together an MvC3 tourney at school once and they didn't have the unlockable characters. Taskmaster was my point character and I had no idea who to pick instead, so I just picked wolverine :/.
Still won
Green Mamba
Member
I've known the full roster to all three Smashes so far before playing and I don't think my enjoyment was hampered one bit.
Of the hundreds of hours I've put into all three the character unlocking portion consisted of less than 1% of that. It's something that occurs once and then never again. Really not a big part of the experience for me. I'm for dropping it.
Of the hundreds of hours I've put into all three the character unlocking portion consisted of less than 1% of that. It's something that occurs once and then never again. Really not a big part of the experience for me. I'm for dropping it.
Freezie KO
Banned
Um... it was a Twitch broadcast called the Smashcast. I think it's run by some Brawl tourney folks, and they're still live now. I stopped listening a bit after D1 signed off. It's not really a "podcast." Sorry for the wrong term.
http://www.twitch.tv/nakat973
Just because you don't find unlocking characters fun doesn't mean it's an inherently bad design. It's meant to appeal to a different personality type. That comparison isn't even remotely the same. Comparing game mechanics across genre's is just a bad idea no matter how you look at it.
The Great Gonzales
Member
Not being familiar with Blazblue, how would that work? Would you have to unlock the Smash Ball itself?
OricWindstar
Member
How's this? Totally let me know if you want a different color. Really only takes a minute to do.
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