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[JB-the-Hunter]

No. Snake made it in because Kojima asked Sakurai to add Snake during Melee's development.

You've got to be naive if you think that's why Sakurai put Snake in the game. Like the man himself said "I'm not just gonna put in any character from other companies." Kojima requesting Snake was a factor, just like Namco working on Smash 4 was a factor in Pac-Man's inclusion, but it was NOT the deciding factor. Snake and Pac-Man are among the biggest video game characters ever, whether or not they have any kind of connection to Nintendo.

• Most Castlevanias feature a Belmont or somebody who plays like one

• 
  "A Belmont" is not remotely compatible to Snake's situation.
  
  

  [*]Your "Snake" isn't even one singular character, which you yourself admitted

  Oh my God, it's like you read what you want to read. The different Snake's are not the same character on such a superficial level. It's like you ignored my Link comparison.
  
  

  And yet now, you're on about the industry at large? Quit moving the goalposts.

  We must be having two different arguments or something because I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

Is there a final release date for this game yet? I thought Nintendo announced one at E3?

 

[Waluigilicious]

If we needed a Namco character Pacman definitely had to be it. They used my favorite design of him and that trailer was amazing (especially the end, hits the heart man). Can't stop watching it. I'm very pleased with his inclusion. I might get Pac Land on the Wii U VC.

I got both Pac Land and Pac Man Collection. Smash hype is real!

I agree, the trailer was absolutely amazing. The only other trailer I've watched more times is the Sonic reveal trailer for Brawl back then.

 

[SaikyoBro]

I just hate how when people say "Snake only got in because Kojima begged Sakurai", and make it sound like there was no merit to the character and he was only added out of pity or something. The more likely scenario is "Kojima pitched the idea to Sakurai during the development of Melee and Sakurai liked it enough to keep it in mind until Brawl".

If Sakurai didn't like the idea of Snake or didn't want to add him for one reason or another, he wouldn't have been included last time. Judging by the very unique moveset, assortment of MGS remixes (while Sonic only got one), and roughly 40 unique codec conversations, I'd say Sakurai enjoyed his inclusion quite a bit.

 

[Professor Beef]

So, moving away from the huge Nintendo all-star Snake (seriously, he's so close to Nintendo, Konami should give the series to them) and the guy who doesn't have any importance to Nintendo whatsoever (Simon Belmont), Square-enix was brought up in the SmashGAF IRC, and with the introduction of the customizable movesets of the Mii Fighter and Palutena, I've had an idea.

The only 2 series from Square-enix that are truly popular are Dragon Quest and of course Final Fantasy - the latter more so globally, while DQ is significantly bigger in Japan than the rest of the world.

Final Fantasy is a series in which every game is its own contained story and world. So, I believe that picking a single characters from one of those games would not do the franchise any justice. There are a lot of elements that tie them together aside from the name, such as several mechanics, species (Chocobos, Moogles, etc.) and of course the class archetypes.

My suggestion was to make a character loosely based on Final Fantasy 1. It could either be a human (you could name it the Warrior of Light, based on the Dissidia Final Fantasy incarnation of the FF1 characters), or a Moogle/Chocobo. Then add to it the most iconic jobs of the franchise, and based on which job you give your WoL/Moogle/Chocobo, we would have a different moveset. It could be involving Fighter/Knight, Black Mage, White Mage and Ninja (cause I feel it would offer more variety than Thief), perhaps even Black Belt/Monk or some of the other less known classes (tho I feel like the Red Mage wouldn't offer enough deviation from the other 2 mages), and you'd be good to go.
Final Smash could be summoning Shiva, Ifrit or Bahamut or something, idk.

In any case, I feel like that would probably the best solution to represent Final Fantasy, if it ever were to happen. I always felt that picking a single character from a specific game or a single class (since Black Mage was often suggested) goes against the whole variety aspect of the franchise, especially those games that allow you customizing your characters, which is a mechanic that spans across most of the series.

I haven't played enough Dragon Quest games to give any insight in that, though.

Just use Gilgamesh for a FF rep, since he's in nearly every game.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Is there a final release date for this game yet? I thought Nintendo announced one at E3?

For Smash 3DS

Sept 13 for Japanese Release Date, Oct 3rd for America and Europe Release Date.

Wii U is still at Holiday 2014.

 

[Pappasman]

Don't know if this has been posted yet or if anyone cares but here's the MLG Anaheim friday schedule:

Spoiler

Is it bad that I get pleasure out of seeing zero facing mango, armada and hbox because I know he's going to lose? I haven't watched brawl in so long that I forgot how much I hated stalling and seeing him do it at the invitational brought it all back.

Also crew battle and AMSA hype.

Leffen vs M2K is the first match? goddamn...

 

[Red Arremer]

Is there a final release date for this game yet? I thought Nintendo announced one at E3?

October 3 for 3DS. Holiday season for Wii U.

You've got to be naive if you think that's why Sakurai put Snake in the game. Like the man himself said "I'm not just gonna put in any character from other companies." Kojima requesting Snake was a factor, just like Namco working on Smash 4 was a factor in Pac-Man's inclusion, but it was NOT the deciding factor. Snake and Pac-Man are among the biggest video game characters ever, whether or not they have any kind of connection to Nintendo.

I just hate how when people say "Snake only got in because Kojima begged Sakurai", and make it sound like there was no merit to the character and he was only added out of pity or something. The more likely scenario is "Kojima pitched the idea to Sakurai during the development of Melee and Sakurai liked it enough to keep it in mind until Brawl".

If Sakurai didn't like the idea of Snake or didn't want to add him for one reason or another, he wouldn't have been included last time. Judging by the very unique moveset, assortment of MGS remixes (while Sonic only got one), and roughly 40 unique codec conversations, I'd say Sakurai enjoyed his inclusion quite a bit.

Oh I'm well aware of that. But I'm pretty sure that without Kojima suggesting the idea, we wouldn't have had Snake. Perhaps Sakurai wouldn't even have thought of including 3rd party characters in general.

Also, Sonic's lack of stuff is more to be blamed on the fact he was the very last character to be added to the game, and on short notice (iirc his inclusion was in fact reason for the first delay of the game), as opposed to Sakurai liking Snake more than Sonic. It was never clear Sega was going to allow Sonic's inclusion in Brawl until much later, while Snake's inclusion seemed to have been planned since Melee's development, and been cleared from the get-go (since Snake was one of the first Brawl newcomers to be revealed).

Mind you, I am not one of the guys who says "Snake doesn't fit Smash", or who wouldn't want him to return. I like Snake in Brawl, I enjoyed the playstyle he offered and think it would be sad if he were to get cut, if only for the fact we'd lose a very unique moveset.

The only thing I disagreed with is that Snake is closer to Nintendo than Simon Belmont is.

 

[Neiteio]

I just hate how when people say "Snake only got in because Kojima begged Sakurai", and make it sound like there was no merit to the character and he was only added out of pity or something. The more likely scenario is "Kojima pitched the idea to Sakurai during the development of Melee and Sakurai liked it enough to keep it in mind until Brawl".

If Sakurai didn't like the idea of Snake or didn't want to add him for one reason or another, he wouldn't have been included last time. Judging by the very unique moveset, assortment of MGS remixes (while Sonic only got one), and roughly 40 unique codec conversations, I'd say Sakurai enjoyed his inclusion quite a bit.

Some people are crazy and will come up with any reason to put Snake down.

Whatever his chances of appearing this time, it's plainly evident that Sakurai legitimately likes Snake as a character and as a character in Smash Bros. That's it.

If Snake doesn't appear this time, it'll be for reasons beyond Sakurai's control.

 

[SaikyoBro]

Also, Sonic's lack of stuff is more to be blamed on the fact he was the very last character to be added to the game, and on short notice (iirc his inclusion was in fact reason for the first delay of the game), as opposed to Sakurai liking Snake more than Sonic. It was never clear Sega was going to allow Sonic's inclusion in Brawl until much later, while Snake's inclusion seemed to have been planned since Melee's development, and been cleared from the get-go (since Snake was one of the first Brawl newcomers to be revealed).

Mind you, I am not one of the guys who says "Snake doesn't fit Smash", or who wouldn't want him to return. I like Snake in Brawl, I enjoyed the playstyle he offered and think it would be sad if he were to get cut, if only for the fact we'd lose a very unique moveset.

Ah, fair point and apologies for the misunderstanding.

I still think Snake has a chance but the 47-slot roster you see going around definitely whittled at my confidence a bit. I just don't understand what party involved would say no; Sakurai clearly enjoyed his addition in the last game, Nintendo leaves the roster almost entirely up to Sakurai (according to an Iwata Asks from around Brawl's release), and Kojima has said himself "hopefully we'll see Snake." Considering the roster was finalized around the same time MGS3D came out, I just don't see what legitimate reason anyone involved would have to object to his return.

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

Literally every thing in this is wrong. This is a Nintendo All-Star crossover, first-and-foremost. Sonic made it into Brawl because of his fierce, real-life rivalry with Mario as the mascot one of Nintendo's biggest rival companies, and wouldn't have even been up for consideration if Sega hadn't gone third-party.

Sonic was considered because of fanboy demands, he made it in because he's an important character to the video game industry. Literally everything you said could apply to Crash Bandicoot, but he didn't make it because nobody asked for him.

And as Red Arremer said, Snake isn't in purely because "he's iconic", he's in because Kojima is close friends with Sakurai wanted to play Smash Bros. with his kid as Solid Snake, and Metal Gear had a tenuous enough connection to Nintendo to justify it.

All of the things you mention are factors, but if Snake wasn't as iconic as he is, he would NOT have made it in. It's that simple. And that what my argument boils down to.

 

[JoeInky]

Leffen vs M2K is the first match? goddamn...

I forgot to mention that they're all Bo5.

7 and a half hours (atleast) of M2K, Leffen, PPMD, Mango, Zero

Spoiler

getting destroyed

, HBox, AMSA, Westballz, Hax and Armada and a crew battle to top it off.

I am so. fucking. ready.


Also I highly doubt snake would be in if Kojima hadn't asked for it, snake just isn't up there enough in terms of third party characters to be a worthy inclusion, he's a massive step down from sonic.

 

[Wreck-It Ralph]

Snake IS Konami in the same way Sonic is Sega.

Holy shit, not at all. The main reason Snake is their biggest character today is because they have literally nothing else anymore. But prior to Metal Gear Solid, Castlevania was FAR bigger than Metal Gear. Even with Metal Gear being their biggest franchise now, I still wouldn't call Snake a mascot.

Whereas Sonic has been the official mascot of Sega pretty much since he was created.

Shit, what the hell happened to Konami? They used to make good games like Castlevania, Contra, Goemon, DDR, Gradius, and Silent Hill... now all they do is make Metal Gear.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

October 3 for 3DS. Holiday season for Wii U.

DAMN! Wish the Wii U would get the final release date already.

I'm worried it might get delayed to 2015.

Really want to play this sometime this year.

 

[Durden77]

This Snake talk. I swear people think Nintendo were taken advantage of. Like they signed the papers saying "Ok Sakurai....I guess because he's your friend..."

This was a blockbuster they were designing, not an indie game. One wrong slip up and it could be catastrophic. They had conversations, and in the end saw what Snake brought to the game was something awesome, fitting, and good for the game's appeal as a whole.

Sure it probably started as a conversation between friends, but what came to life in Brawl is something only someone that truly respects the character and it's series could've created.

Sakurai did not have to go out of his way to make one of the most unique movesets a fighter has ever seen in Smash for him. He didn't have to represent nearly the entirety of the MG series with so much care.

But he did. Do you know why? Because Snake fucking rocks, and Sakurai and Nintendo were happy to have him in. Iwata said that himself too, incase you're still weirdly thinking Sakurai slipped it by Nintendo. Pretty sure Nintendo are big boys, and if they want the big boys in Smash, they're gonna get 'em.

And lol at Simon being a bigger Konami name than Snake. That's a conversation for a different day, and it doesn't end well for Simon.

 

[J-Tier]

Kojima clearly had to do a sliding dogeza in front of Sakurai to get Snake into Smash. Sakurai initially thought Snake wasn't worthy, but after seeing Kojima's extreme respect for Sakurai's godliness, he allowed Snake to share a space at the bottom of the roster.

 

[Red Arremer]

Moai is more Konami than Snake is, imo. Moai are in virtually every Konami game ever made, so much so that they transformed it into a playable character in several of the crossover games they made.

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

Just to clarify... I'm pretty sure there are two different arguments about Snake happening at once here. One is about whether or not Snake has more of a connection to Nintendo than Simon, which I don't think is really debatable. Simon clearly has more of a connection to Nintendo.

The other argument is about whether or not that matters. And I'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter at all. Snake is way more important than Simon. Snake deserves to be in more than Simon does.

Holy shit, not at all. The main reason Snake is their biggest character today is because they have literally nothing else anymore. But prior to Metal Gear Solid, Castlevania was FAR bigger than Metal Gear. Even with Metal Gear being their biggest franchise now, I still wouldn't call Snake a mascot.

Whereas Sonic has been the official mascot of Sega pretty much since he was created.

Shit, what the hell happened to Konami? They used to make good games like Castlevania, Contra, Goemon, DDR, Gradius, and Silent Hill... now all they do is make Metal Gear.

I didn't say Snake is Konami's mascot, don't misquote me please, I said he IS Konami. Meaning... Konami has nothing that compares to him.

 

[Neiteio]

Ah, fair point and apologies for the misunderstanding.

I still think Snake has a chance but the 47-slot roster you see going around definitely whittled at my confidence a bit. I just don't understand what party involved would say no; Sakurai clearly enjoyed his addition in the last game, Nintendo leaves the roster almost entirely up to Sakurai (according to an Iwata Asks from around Brawl's release), and Kojima has said himself "hopefully we'll see Snake." Considering the roster was finalized around the same time MGS3D came out, I just don't see what legitimate reason anyone involved would have to object to his return.

Shocking_Alberto made a good point that the problem might be Hayter's falling out with Kojima. If Hayter is not willing to provide Snake's voice, and if Sutherland is too costly or complicated (as I suspect he would be), Kojima might not want Snake in Smash Bros. Or maybe it's a "purist" problem where Sakurai would normally want Snake, but if he's forced to recycle sound clips, he feels like Snake can't be properly depicted, and so he cans him altogether.

Honestly, I'd prefer Snake with recycled sound clips and no new codecs, over no Snake at all. He's such a great character in Smash and deserves to stay.

 

[SaikyoBro]

Holy shit, not at all. The main reason Snake is their biggest character today is because they have literally nothing else anymore. But prior to Metal Gear Solid, Castlevania was FAR bigger than Metal Gear. Even with Metal Gear being their biggest franchise now, I still wouldn't call Snake a mascot.

Whereas Sonic has been the official mascot of Sega pretty much since he was created.

Shit, what the hell happened to Konami? They used to make good games like Castlevania, Contra, Goemon, DDR, Gradius, and Silent Hill... now all they do is make Metal Gear.

Um... yes, Castlevania was bigger than Metal Gear before MGS, but considering MGS predates even the first Smash Bros. I don't really understand what bearing that has on Snake vs. Simon being in the roster. MG was bigger than Castlevania when he was put in Brawl and it's bigger 6 years later. I also wouldn't say they're milking Metal Gear (besides Ground Zeroes, I agree that was a cash-in), correct me if I'm wrong but barring Goemon most of those series have had installments in the last few years at least.

Again though, I don't think that really has any bearing on the roster. While Simon is more closely related to Nintendo, I would argue Snake would get in over him 9 times out of 10 simply because he was already in Brawl. He's a famous character with a unique moveset with a lot of fans, and as much as you may hate to hear it, Metal Gear and Solid Snake are more popular and arguably iconic than Castlevania and Simon Belmont.

 

[JoeInky]

We get it, durden, you're a massive snake fanboy.

(Also did you seriously just self-censor on the internet?)

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

BTW does anyone know if there has been any music from the soundtrack released for this yet? The last Smash game had a stupdendous score.

I would love to hear some of this title.

 

[Durden77]

Just to clarify... I'm pretty sure there are two different arguments about Snake happening at once here. One is about whether or not Snake has more of a connection to Nintendo than Simon, which I don't think is really debatable. Simon clearly has more of a connection to Nintendo.

The other argument is about whether or not that matters. And I'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter at all. Snake is way more important than Simon. Snake deserves to be in more than Simon does.

It doesn't. Sakurai already proved that by including him in Brawl.

Although that whole Nintendo relevancy this is debatable anyway and I've already went over it. There's no convincing anyone that Snake is "more of a Nintendo character" than Simon. I know that and understand that because of NES. But he is technically more affiliated with Nintendo over the years than people seem to like to believe. And recently, he's been more associated with Nintendo than Simon has for many, many years.

 

[Neiteio]

Just to clarify... I'm pretty sure there are two different arguments about Snake happening at once here. One is about whether or not Snake has more of a connection to Nintendo than Simon, which I don't think is really debatable. Simon clearly has more of a connection to Nintendo.

The other argument is about whether or not that matters. And I'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter at all. Snake is way more important than Simon. Snake deserves to be in more than Simon does.

Honestly, the flimsy nature of Snake's connection to Nintendo is part of his appeal, and I believe that was intentional on Sakurai's part.

Snake is universally recognized among gamers, and he tends to represent the "other" platforms in the minds of the masses. And not just the "other" platforms, but other styles of gaming -- the darker, more adult fare we don't typically associate with Nintendo.

All of this makes Snake feel UNIQUE, which I believe is the biggest draw to the character in Sakurai's eyes. It's why his presence enriches the whole roster. By not fitting in, he fits in perfectly.

 

[Ryce]

If Snake doesn't appear this time, it'll be for reasons beyond Sakurai's control.

Sakurai said Brawl was designed in contrast to the Wii's casual direction -- it's dark, gritty, and intentionally doesn't have Miis. Snake fit into the "anti-Wii" vision Sakurai had for Brawl fairly naturally. On the other hand, this new Smash Bros. is bright, colorful, and Miis are playable. It's very "Nintendo-y" compared to Brawl, and the classic mascot foursome of Mario/Pac-Man/Sonic/Mega Man attests to that.

I don't see why it's unrealistic to assume that excluding Snake was a conscious decision on Sakurai's part. This is a different game than Brawl with a different vision.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The most obvious answer is that no Konami characters are joining this time.

 

[SaikyoBro]

Shocking_Alberto made a good point that the problem might be Hayter's falling out with Kojima. If Hayter is not willing to provide Snake's voice, and if Sutherland is too costly or complicated (as I suspect he would be), Kojima might not want Snake in Smash Bros. Or maybe it's a "purist" problem where Sakurai would normally want Snake, but if he's forced to recycle sound clips, he feels like Snake can't be properly depicted, and so he cans him altogether.

Honestly, I'd prefer Snake with recycled sound clips and no new codecs, over no Snake at all. He's such a great character in Smash and deserves to stay.

Honestly I think it's a non-issue since Snake's Japanese VA is the same. If Snake came back I can't see anyone voicing him but Hayter, and if Hayter didn't want to do it (or Kojima didn't want him to) then I imagine they'd just reuse his Brawl sound clips.

 

[SkyOdin]

I don't think any kind of "historical importance" or "iconicness" is at all a significant consideration for whether or not a character should be in Smash Bros. It feels like a roundabout way of saying that you like a certain character more than a different character so they should be prioritized. In the end, what is probably most important is what kind if characters will surprise or excite fans. While Snake is certainly a popular character that would excite fans to have back, I think Simon Belmont would also make a lot of fans happy to have in Smash Bros. Without any kind of evidence, it is hard to say which of the two would be more popular.

Ina ny case, I doubt anyone can make claim to be able to predict the Smash Bros. roster. All we can really say is what characters we as fans want to see. Trying to claim any authority higher than that seems silly to me.

 

[Durden77]

We get it, durden, you're a massive snake fanboy.

(Also did you seriously just self-censor on the internet?)

To be honest, I actually just copy and pasted that from the countless other times I've went though these same arguments. That was from another forum that thinks fuck is a bad word.

And this is a pretty comon response when I bring up legitimate points for Snake. Sorry Snake rocks so hard and has every reason to return. It's not my fault.

 

[SaikyoBro]

Sakurai said Brawl was designed in contrast to the Wii's casual direction -- it's dark, gritty, and intentionally doesn't have Miis. Snake fit into the "anti-Wii" vision Sakurai had for Brawl fairly naturally. On the other hand, this new Smash Bros. is bright, colorful, and Miis are playable. It's very "Nintendo-y" compared to Brawl, and the classic mascot foursome of Mario/Pac-Man/Sonic/Mega Man attests to that.

I don't see why it's unrealistic to assume that excluding Snake was a conscious decision on Sakurai's part. This is a different game than Brawl with a different vision.

I can see why you'd say that but I don't think Snake's return would have anything to do with the art style they're going with, otherwise we probably wouldn't see the Zelda characters reusing their Twilight Princess designs.

 

[Kouriozan]

Who else is even more happy that Pac-Man is in than they thought they'd be? I've even entered this mini Pac-Man hype mode where I'm playing his games.

Yep, same for Palutena, going back to Kid Icarus : Uprising.

 

[JoeInky]

To be honest, I actually copy and pasted that from the countless other times I've went though these same arguments. That was from another forum that thinks fuck is a bad word.

Alright.

And this is a pretty comon response when I bring up legitimate points for Snake. Sorry Snake rocks so hard and has every reason to return. It's not my fault.

Meh, I don't rate him, never been able to play a MGS game for more than an hour or two and there's about 6 or 7 third party characters that come before snake in terms of "Which characters represent this company and how much more important is this company to Nintendo", 3 of which are already in the new game so unless we get the rest first I really don't want Snake in.

Unless we live in a perfect world where they can add as many characters as they want without delaying the game, in which case yeah, sure, they've already designed a moveset for him so why not.

 

[Wreck-It Ralph]

And this is a pretty comon response when I bring up legitimate points for Snake. Sorry Snake rocks so hard and has every reason to return. It's not my fault.

Yes, this is exactly how you go about proving that you're not a blind fanboy of something.

 

[Ryce]

I can see why you'd say that but I don't think Snake's return would have anything to do with the art style they're going with, otherwise we probably wouldn't see the Zelda characters reusing their Twilight Princess designs.

Even the Zelda characters are more colorful this time around, and Skyward Sword isn't really an option. Link would need a new moveset, Zelda would look silly fighting, and new designs for Sheik and Ganondorf would need to be created. There's no incentive for going through all of that trouble to represent a game that's less popular/worse selling than Twilight Princess.

 

[Neiteio]

Yes, this is exactly how you go about proving that you're not a blind fanboy of something.

The arguments against Snake feel like they're motivated by a personal distaste for such a character in Smash.

The fact is, Sakurai deemed him "Nintendo-y" enough to be in Brawl; he wouldn't suddenly NOT be Nintendo-y enough for SSB4.

If Snake is cut, it's likely for reasons beyond Sakurai's control. Not because Snake is undeserving or doesn't fit or any such thing.

 

[Wreck-It Ralph]

Who else is even more happy that Pac-Man is in than they thought they'd be? I've even entered this mini Pac-Man hype mode where I'm playing his games.

Yes, let's drop this Snake talk and talk about how awesome Pac-Man is instead.

 

[Red Arremer]

But he is technically more affiliated with Nintendo over the years than people seem to like to believe. And recently, he's been more associated with Nintendo than Simon has for many, many years.

But that's not true. You can say it as much as you want, but it's wrong. Factually. Objectively. You are wrong. You are spreading misinformation.

The last Metal Gear game that was on a Nintendo platform was Snake Eater 3D in 2012, which was a port. Before that was Twin Snakes, and that was 2004.

Simon has appeared in a 3DS game as well, Castlevania Mirror of Fate, which came out last year. He also appeared in the Wii title Castlevania Judgement, which came out in 2010, and cameo'd in the DS title Castlevania Portrait of Ruin, which was released in 2006. And that doesn't even consider the many Castlevania titles that came out on Nintendo platforms which didn't feature Simon Belmont.

Simon has appeared in 2 games between Twin Snakes and Snake Eater 3D, and most recently has appeared in the latest installment of the series which also was released on the 3DS, more recently so than Snake Eater 3D.

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

I don't think any kind of "historical importance" or "iconicness" is at all a significant consideration for whether or not a character should be in Smash Bros.

But that's a notion that came from Sakurai himself, I'd find quotes myself but I'm on my iPad and I really don't like browsing on is thing.

The evidence is there anyway. Sonic is Sega's long standing mascot, Pac-Man is the father of video games and the king of arcades, Mega Man is miraculously Capcom's most iconic character despite the fact that they have so many other franchises and neglect Mega Man, and Snake is the only Konami character that has lasted all these generations in the limelight.

 

[Durden77]

Yes, this is exactly how you go about proving that you're not a blind fanboy of something.

So saying that one of the most unique characters Smash has ever seen that also brought an entire series with him should return, giving legitimate points why he should return, and countering negative points with very real observations makes my a blind fanboy?

No, I'm pretty sure that just makes me a fan that just has a bit more ammo than average because I care a lot about him and the series. But you've done a great job of proving that you have blind distaste.

 

[Pappasman]

I forgot to mention that they're all Bo5.

7 and a half hours (atleast) of M2K, Leffen, PPMD, Mango, Zero

Spoiler

getting destroyed

, HBox, AMSA, Westballz, Hax and Armada and a crew battle to top it off.

I am so. fucking. ready.


Also I highly doubt snake would be in if Kojima hadn't asked for it, snake just isn't up there enough in terms of third party characters to be a worthy inclusion, he's a massive step down from sonic.

omg. I'm going to be in heaven.

 

[JoeInky]

Pacman is so awesome just because he represents atleast 6 different franchises in one character so far.

He's basically an "arcade" rep rather than a "pacman" rep and that's just great.

I really want to know what the xevious and dig dug things do.

 

[thechristoph]

Holy cow. I did not mean to start such a shitstorm when I posted that I wanted Belmot. Like any game, what Smash Bros means to me and what it means to someone else could be completely different. To me, it's fulfilling childhood fantasies about what would happen if these characters matched up against each other. That's pretty clearly the message of the earlier games, at least, when they show a toybox and a hand playing with the trophies. I get that it can evolve, just like how people interpret Melee as this serious competitive masterpiece. That's not what I want out of Smash Bros, but if it is what you want out of it, well that's awesome and I hope you get it.

So, in my mind, putting Simon in there with Pac Man, Sonic, and Mega Man fulfills those old daydreams. Snake doesn't come close. As a kid, among my friends Metal Gear was the "I feel asleep" game where nobody could figure out what the fuck to do without Nintendo Power, but Castlevania was a top shelf, must-have game.

 

[JoeInky]

But that's not true. You can say it as much as you want, but it's wrong. Factually. Objectively. You are wrong. You are spreading misinformation.

The last Metal Gear game that was on a Nintendo platform was Snake Eater 3D in 2012, which was a port. Before that was Twin Snakes, and that was 2004.

Simon has appeared in a 3DS game as well, Castlevania Mirror of Fate, which came out last year. He also appeared in the Wii title Castlevania Judgement, which came out in 2010, and cameo'd in the DS title Castlevania Portrait of Ruin, which was released in 2006. And that doesn't even consider the many Castlevania titles that came out on Nintendo platforms which didn't feature Simon Belmont.

Simon has appeared in 2 games between Twin Snakes and Snake Eater 3D, and most recently has appeared in the latest installment of the series which also was released on the 3DS, more recently so than Snake Eater 3D.

He also has his games on both the 3DS and WiiU virtual console whereas I don't think the NES Metal Gear games have ever been on the virtual console.

I'm very bias in the fact that I only care care about characters that were popular in the NES era being in smash now though, I've got most of the newcomers from recent times that I want (mainly Olimar).

 

[SaikyoBro]

Even the Zelda characters are more colorful this time around, and Skyward Sword isn't really an option. Link would need a new moveset, Zelda would look silly fighting, and new designs for Sheik and Ganondorf would need to be created. There's no incentive for going through all of that trouble to represent a game that's less popular/worse selling than Twilight Princess.

Yeah that's all true, but I still can't convince myself that Sakurai would take his game's aesthetics as a reason to remove a character. Being the only character in the series to come from an M-rated franchise and the first third-party character introduced we really don't have anything to compare him to, but I still have a hard time imagining in my head Sakurai singling out an entire series and saying "yeah, this doesn't go with our art direction, maybe it'd be best to drop it" after so much work went into representing that series last time.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Yes, let's drop this Snake talk and talk about how awesome Pac-Man is instead.

Pac Man is so awesome, same for his arcade buddies!

 

[Wreck-It Ralph]

He's so happy!

 

[Durden77]

But that's not true. You can say it as much as you want, but it's wrong. Factually. Objectively. You are wrong. You are spreading misinformation.

The last Metal Gear game that was on a Nintendo platform was Snake Eater 3D in 2012, which was a port. Before that was Twin Snakes, and that was 2004.

Simon has appeared in a 3DS game as well, Castlevania Mirror of Fate, which came out last year. He also appeared in the Wii title Castlevania Judgement, which came out in 2010, and cameo'd in the DS title Castlevania Portrait of Ruin, which was released in 2006. And that doesn't even consider the many Castlevania titles that came out on Nintendo platforms which didn't feature Simon Belmont.

Simon has appeared in 2 games between Twin Snakes and Snake Eater 3D, and most recently has appeared in the latest installment of the series which also was released on the 3DS, more recently so than Snake Eater 3D.

I just don't see how people don't include Brawl as part of the equation. It's like they don't seem to want to remember that he is exclusively in one of the largest Nintendo games they've ever made. If Brawl is part of the equation (which I definitely feel like it should be), then he definitely is. If not, then yeah sure. They're about even as of now.

And once again, I'm in not trying to prove that Snake is MORE associated with Nintendo than Simon. Simon has his nostalgia and no doubt was a huge Nintendo name for a while. I'm just saying people act like he has little to nothing to do with Nintendo, when his been on five Nintendo systems and once again, I believe, technically, (I know I keep using that word but for a reason, because I know to a certain extent, Simon will always be more associated), he has been more closely associated with Nintendo here recently if Brawl is to be included.

 

[Fiktion]

I feel like if Snake was gone they would have told us by now.

 

[SaikyoBro]

He's so happy!

good lord that picture is precious

As much as I advocate for Snake and as disappointed as I'd be to see him gone, I can definitely admit that Sonic/Pac-Man/Mega Man is a stellar third-party line-up.

 

[Shadow Hog]

He also has his games on both the 3DS and WiiU virtual console whereas I don't think the NES Metal Gear games have ever been on the virtual console.

Actually, this has surprised me. I know the Wii got MSX Virtual Console support; surely Konami could've put up the translated ROMs of Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake from Subsistence for some easy money.