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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread XI: Where 90% correct equals 100% wrong
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Isn't this question incredibly academic since the major changes (besides a small refresh of the character roster) in these types of fighting game iterations balance oriented? How can we make balance calls before the game is even out?
If the game was good and the content matched the price I'd be fine with whatever. I'd want to see new characters, balance changes and new stages.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Well, I would like to see that they would bring all cut characters back to Smash if they went with Expansion path, along with few newcomers. I think this kind of discussion would recurring a lot right after we would find out who got in or got cut.
Super Street Fighter IV added 10 characters including two new characters, so no, it wouldn't be only about balance.
fredrancour
Member
It depends on how much they'd try to charge me. If the gameplay stayed fundamentally the same (with minor balance fixes) they'd have to go nuts with new game modes, characters, and stages to get my money at anywhere near full price.
If it was, like, a dlc-priced digital expansion pack I'd settle for a small number of new characters and stages.
I'd love a Wii U version that included the 3DS exclusive stages/features in HD.
Lord_Byron28
Member
I think there are a lot of other pokemon I'd rather see before these two. I could see them as fun to play as. I had fun playing as Pichu in Melee. However I feel they'll likely just get cut or it'll be another Jigglypuff scenario.Speaking of scrapped Brawl characters, it would appear Plusle & Minun were another one. I don't know if Sakurai would've anticipated Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire when he finalized the SSB4 roster, but I'd love to see P&M. Essentially Pichu x Ice Climbers, where their attacks power up when they're together.
I highly doubt Nintendo will ever do this and I think your grasping at straws but if they found out that I'd pay no matter what's on it then my wallet is doomed...ALL our wallets are doomed.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
My wallet's already doomed with amiibo,
If you're going to choose a cute electric Pokemon, at least choose the right one.
That's not jolteon.
Also the best eevee.
If you're going to choose a cute electric Pokemon, at least choose the right one.
You're a man after gods own heart
MiguelMexMIstery
Member
I'm kinda surprised Nintendo hasn't done this. Lots of fighters get another update the following year of their release. It's easy money right there.
If you're going to choose a cute electric Pokemon, at least choose the right one.
I love ya Toxi, you got great taste in pokemon!
Also, any leaks be happening while I was gone? Or just more stuff taken off the fanfiction section from smashboards?
Honestly, I would feel robbed if they would introduce the "Super/Ultra" concept that Capcom implements in Street Fighter, if it's a yearly thing. Smash having a good period of hiatus is what makes Smash feel special and very much anticipated every release. I guess about at least 3 years every release would be good enough.
As for added content of a new iteration of Smash, everything (stages, characters, items, trophies, modes) are always welcome.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
that's not joltik
ShockingAlberto
Member
I imagine once they start doing that, people stop buying the first versions.
They probably want to sell 12 million of one version than 8 million combined.
balladofwindfishes
Member
So humoring that Doc Mario leak as credible and he's a returning vet. How can they make him different from Mario?
Well, first, his down special obviously. Doc could have Mario's old Melee one where it flew nice and high, versus Doc's not so high. Fludd makes no sense on Doc.
He couldn't wall jump, much like Melee. This hurts his recovery a bit, but it's a "cheap" difference that de-clones the two.
I think his up special could change too. Coin jump doesn't fit Doc at all. Trying to think of a unique move that behaves similar to coin jump, while being related to Doc is got me puzzled though. Some kind of uppercut with pills in his hands? An electric based jump of sorts?
I think his Final Smash would be something like Dedede's, except dropping viruses all over that sort of do the same as Dedede's FS.
I know he was planned to return in Brawl, but it would still be weird, especially in a game with elaborate costumes. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see him, I just would find it really odd.
Well, first, his down special obviously. Doc could have Mario's old Melee one where it flew nice and high, versus Doc's not so high. Fludd makes no sense on Doc.
He couldn't wall jump, much like Melee. This hurts his recovery a bit, but it's a "cheap" difference that de-clones the two.
I think his up special could change too. Coin jump doesn't fit Doc at all. Trying to think of a unique move that behaves similar to coin jump, while being related to Doc is got me puzzled though. Some kind of uppercut with pills in his hands? An electric based jump of sorts?
I think his Final Smash would be something like Dedede's, except dropping viruses all over that sort of do the same as Dedede's FS.
I know he was planned to return in Brawl, but it would still be weird, especially in a game with elaborate costumes. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see him, I just would find it really odd.
It seems like the differences between Melee!Mario and Dr. Mario are already more pronounced than the ones between SSB4!Marth and Lucina, soo I think the Doc has a good shot at coming back, and wouldn't be surprised if not much is changed from his moveset from back then.
There's also a mentality at Nintendo that a version of a product they sell should be able to stand on it's own for about a generation. Hell, it's rare for them to even PATCH a game (the only recent one I can think of is Pokemon, to fix a game-breaking bug, which needs a process that feels tacked-on).
With that mentality, I don't see them pulling a Capcom without a major shift from their current market strategy. Since they already announced that shift is more to QoL stuff instead of video games, I don't see that happening.
Hours Left
Member
Which leak is that?
If they do bring back Dr. Mario as a separate character, I hope they incorporate the viruses in his FS.
theprodigy
Member
you think Nintendo fans won't double (triple?) dip for upgraded versions?
Red Arremer
Member
I don't think they would do something like that solely for the fact because I don't believe that is something Sakurai wants to do. He cares for his fans, and I truly believe that he wants to give us a proper and fully enjoyable product. I can see them releasing some DLC after the game's release, with additional stages perhaps, or alt costumes, perhaps even an "expansion pack" with a new character or two, but beyond that, I really doubt that there'll be a Super Super Smash Bros. 4 Turbo.
That said, if it did happen, I probably would buy it. Not sure if I would double-dip in that case, though.
AlfonzoPalutena
Member
Dr. Mario jumps in the air and whips his opponent further upwards with the round metal disc thing on the end of his stethoscope!
MrSaturn99
Member
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
I love R/S/E to the death and would be beyond pissed if Plusie/Minun were chosen to represent Gen 3. Terrible Pokémon.
I love R/S/E to the death and would be beyond pissed if Plusie/Minun were chosen to represent Gen 3. Terrible Pokémon.
ShockingAlberto
Member
If there were that many Nintendo fans bad with money, the Wii U would be doing minimum Gamecube numbers.
The following is purely an example -- the characters could obviously be different depending on how SSB4 shakes out.
With that said, imagine:
An update to the WiiU version, released 12-16 months later, in the spirit of Super Street Fighter IV or Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3.
- Smash Run from the 3DS version, presented in HD
- Every stage from the 3DS version, presented in HD
- All Brawl characters that didn't make the cut for SSB4
- Mewtwo, from Melee, if he didn't make the cut before
- And the following newcomers:
--> Paper Mario, fitting with the 3DS Paper Mario stage
--> Plusle & Minun, planned for Brawl, topical after OR/AS
--> Tetra, an all-new character, and Toon Zelda, a clone
--> Dixie Kong, planned for Brawl, topical after DKCTF
--> Inkling, both male and female, to promote Splatoon
------
I think people would probably buy it. They could lower the vanilla version's price to sell the new version for the full $60 at retail, while offering it at a lower price on the eShop as a DLC update for those who want to "upgrade" from vanilla.
Would this hurt overall sales, or sell more overall? I don't know. How has Street Fighter fared as a whole?
With that said, imagine:
An update to the WiiU version, released 12-16 months later, in the spirit of Super Street Fighter IV or Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3.
- Smash Run from the 3DS version, presented in HD
- Every stage from the 3DS version, presented in HD
- All Brawl characters that didn't make the cut for SSB4
- Mewtwo, from Melee, if he didn't make the cut before
- And the following newcomers:
--> Paper Mario, fitting with the 3DS Paper Mario stage
--> Plusle & Minun, planned for Brawl, topical after OR/AS
--> Tetra, an all-new character, and Toon Zelda, a clone
--> Dixie Kong, planned for Brawl, topical after DKCTF
--> Inkling, both male and female, to promote Splatoon
------
I think people would probably buy it. They could lower the vanilla version's price to sell the new version for the full $60 at retail, while offering it at a lower price on the eShop as a DLC update for those who want to "upgrade" from vanilla.
Would this hurt overall sales, or sell more overall? I don't know. How has Street Fighter fared as a whole?
The Great Gonzales
Member
In general, DLC and Ultra-style updates rub me the wrong way, for reasons I admit aren't entirely rational. Buying a game at full price, and then a few months or a year later having to sink more money into it for extra stages or characters makes me feel like I'm being fleeced. I'd rather just buy the game and be done with it, and defer any extra content to the next full installment/sequel. It's a longer wait, but I don't feel like I'm being suckered into spending extra money on a game I thought was a complete product when I bought it.
On the other hand, I'm fine with the kind of expansion packs that PC games sometimes get, because those feel like completely new games, not padding for a game I already have (it;s for this reason I never got the DLC for Awakening; if I'm going to spend more money, I want a whole new FE game, not a few extra missions for the game I already have.) Two examples that come to mind are Baldur's Gate II and it's expansion, Throne of Bhaal, and Crysis and Crysis Warhead. Those expansion packs were more than a few new items and multiplayer maps: they had entirely new campaigns, and they felt like standalone games. Those kinds of expansion packs make me feel like I'm getting my money's worth.
Again, I admit that this isn't completely rational. It's more of a gut aversion, the sneaking suspicion that I'm throwing money away. And if Smash has this kind of DLC, I'll probably buy it just because it's Smash - but it won't feel good.
If that was only for the Wii U, then I'd be upset. I bought the 3DS version with the promise of parity: identical rosters and, presumably, a roughly equal amount of content overall (I'm guessing the number of stages and single-player modes will be about equal.) If after the fact the Wii U version gets everything unique to the 3DS version plus some extra stuff - and the 3DS version does not get all this - then I'll feel ripped off, because I'll have ended up with the lesser version of Smash, whereas I originally bought it under the pretense that it would be just as complete a Smash game as the Wii U version.
If this package was available for the 3DS, too, I'd buy it through gritted teeth.
On the other hand, I'm fine with the kind of expansion packs that PC games sometimes get, because those feel like completely new games, not padding for a game I already have (it;s for this reason I never got the DLC for Awakening; if I'm going to spend more money, I want a whole new FE game, not a few extra missions for the game I already have.) Two examples that come to mind are Baldur's Gate II and it's expansion, Throne of Bhaal, and Crysis and Crysis Warhead. Those expansion packs were more than a few new items and multiplayer maps: they had entirely new campaigns, and they felt like standalone games. Those kinds of expansion packs make me feel like I'm getting my money's worth.
Again, I admit that this isn't completely rational. It's more of a gut aversion, the sneaking suspicion that I'm throwing money away. And if Smash has this kind of DLC, I'll probably buy it just because it's Smash - but it won't feel good.
If that was only for the Wii U, then I'd be upset. I bought the 3DS version with the promise of parity: identical rosters and, presumably, a roughly equal amount of content overall (I'm guessing the number of stages and single-player modes will be about equal.) If after the fact the Wii U version gets everything unique to the 3DS version plus some extra stuff - and the 3DS version does not get all this - then I'll feel ripped off, because I'll have ended up with the lesser version of Smash, whereas I originally bought it under the pretense that it would be just as complete a Smash game as the Wii U version.
If this package was available for the 3DS, too, I'd buy it through gritted teeth.
Lord_Byron28
Member
One of the best. I wish it was at least a pokeball pokemon. It could spit out electric webbing that traps the person and causes some damage until the user breaks free.If you're going to choose a cute electric Pokemon, at least choose the right one.
Smash Bros. is such a big deal for Nintendo. I just wonder if they'll ever try to milk it like they do with Pokémon. In Pokémon's case, they cycle between new installments, remakes, definitive installments, etc. With Smash Bros., if they could find a way to offer incremental but enticing updates that generate hype and sell units without stealing from the potential of a sequel... well, maybe they would.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
Sorry I'm getting back to my own question so late, but I would say Ridley is the most likely newcomer, much to my own chagrin. I'd prefer Mewtwo or K. Rool over him. When taking into account that the Metroid series only has two reps that are technically the same person while Pokemon has 5 (counting Jigglypuff) unique characters already, it gives Ridley extra incentive for inclusion in my mind. FE having 4 characters really skews my perception of how many reps is likely per franchise, though. And I know there's an argument to be made that the character selection process isn't determined by franchise "reps", so I understand that I'm straddling a tenuous line of logic here.
When you add the fact that Ridley is definitely in the game in some capacity, but the extent of which was made very nebulous by Sakurai, I think it puts Ridley above Mewtwo in terms of likelihood. I can't help but feel that if the Ridley tease was for a boss appearance, we would have seen him by now. In our experience thus far, disappointing news has been delivered swiftly (Waluigi, Takamaru assist trophies, etc) and anything that was teased (pseudo-palutena, Mii Fighters) ultimately lived up to expectations.
So, yeah... the order of likelihood for me goes like this:
1) Ridley
2) Mewtwo
3) K. Rool
4) Rayman
When you add the fact that Ridley is definitely in the game in some capacity, but the extent of which was made very nebulous by Sakurai, I think it puts Ridley above Mewtwo in terms of likelihood. I can't help but feel that if the Ridley tease was for a boss appearance, we would have seen him by now. In our experience thus far, disappointing news has been delivered swiftly (Waluigi, Takamaru assist trophies, etc) and anything that was teased (pseudo-palutena, Mii Fighters) ultimately lived up to expectations.
So, yeah... the order of likelihood for me goes like this:
1) Ridley
2) Mewtwo
3) K. Rool
4) Rayman
Sakurai being behind Smash Bros is one of the bigger things stopping it from being milked, I think. He has such a high standard for quality that it makes it unlikely he'd let them milk his games. But, then again, if he ever were to let them milk it, he could move on from the franchise.
I do think the game will have DLC. Probably release the Amiibos in batches. When those batches are finished, push out a new batch with a DLC update to the game every couple of months to a year.
The idea is the update is a "separate game" to the original WiiU version. Nintendo will have technically honored the parity promise by making the roster of the original WiiU version 1:1 with the roster of the 3DS version. Nintendo could just say, "We never said we wouldn't make a new edition on one of the consoles that would feature more content." Not saying it's the most crowd-pleasing approach, although let's be real, the mere idea of more Smash would have people celebrating regardless of its method of distribution.
Yeah, the biggest obstacle to an update would probably be Nintendo's conviction (and rightfully so) that Sakurai is key to what makes Smash work. It may very well depend on whether Sakurai is willing to oversee such an expansion.
The Great Gonzales
Member
It would be a "separate game" inasmuch as it would come in its own box and it would be marketed as a separate game, but really, it would be the same game, just with extra stuff added on. Everything from "Vanilla Smash for Wii U" would be preserved - all the characters, all the stages, the game modes, the basic physics - the only difference would be the new characters and stages you listed.
Now, you're right that technically Nintendo would have honored its parity promise, because the original Wii U version would be equal to the 3DS version. But that's a case of following the letter of the law but not the spirit. When Nintendo says there will be parity between the two versions, consumers think, "alright, each version will be a complete Smash game, period." They don't think, "each version will be complete for a year, when Nintendo will suddenly add to the Wii U version and leave the 3DS version in the lurch." We were promised parity, not parity-for-now, and while Nintendo wouldn't technically have broken its promise, it would still be a deceptive thing to do.
Finally, yes, it would absolutely be a crowd pleaser - for everyone who has a Wii U. Those people would naturally be thrilled to have more Smash content. But I bet the people who only have the 3DS version wouldn't be so excited, because now they've ended up with a clearly inferior product when they thought they were getting an equal one. Business-wise, I'm sure it would be excellent for Nintendo, but it would still be pretty sleazy, if you ask me.
Yeah, I don't disagree with anything you said there.
Just pointing out a possible route they could take.
In some alternate universe, Ash was given a Joltik instead of a Pikachu. Then Joltik became the cute kid-appeal mascot of Pokemon.
In some alternate universe, Ash was given a Joltik instead of a Pikachu. Then Joltik became the cute kid-appeal mascot of Pokemon.
N will never be a playable rep with access to Joltik, Zoroark, and Reshiram
.K. Rool needs to be a clone of Rosalina & Luma, with his crown replacing Luma.
OK, I really don't think K. Rool has even the slightest chance, but IF they were to include him, here's what I'd want:
- Default to his Kaptain outfit. I know that these days, the Kaptain and King are separate characters, but so what. Kaptain is way cooler. Default to Kaptain like Wario defaults to his WarioWare form. Make the King an alt.
- Blunderbuss should be the focal point of the move-set, for both Kaptain and King (the moves don't change, after all). I don't see room for a crown toss in this scenario, unless the Kaptain's hat can be tossed, as well. But the blunderbuss is way more interesting. You can rocket back and forth across the stage with it; you can vacuum up enemies for a grab and throw; you can fire bouncing, zigzagging and spike-sprouting cannonballs -- maybe even blast those ghostly blobs from the end of DKC2, reversing enemy controls for a moment if the shot connects.
- He could of course have the leaping hops, the body slams, etc. His running A would be his charge from DKC1. He -does- have a tail if you check the sprites from DKC1, so he could thwack enemies with it, as well.
- Klaptraps are fun. Don't see why he couldn't set some loose scurrying back and forth in the stage, like a more hostile Waddle Dee for Brawl Dedede.
I guess his main hook would be a "human cannonball," in that he's a solid mass that hits like a truck and is capable of quick, sudden movements. Conversely, he's a big target and likely to be juggled!
But yeah, I really doubt we'll see K. Rool in playable form, or really any form for that matter. I do like his character, though.
- Default to his Kaptain outfit. I know that these days, the Kaptain and King are separate characters, but so what. Kaptain is way cooler. Default to Kaptain like Wario defaults to his WarioWare form. Make the King an alt.
- Blunderbuss should be the focal point of the move-set, for both Kaptain and King (the moves don't change, after all). I don't see room for a crown toss in this scenario, unless the Kaptain's hat can be tossed, as well. But the blunderbuss is way more interesting. You can rocket back and forth across the stage with it; you can vacuum up enemies for a grab and throw; you can fire bouncing, zigzagging and spike-sprouting cannonballs -- maybe even blast those ghostly blobs from the end of DKC2, reversing enemy controls for a moment if the shot connects.
- He could of course have the leaping hops, the body slams, etc. His running A would be his charge from DKC1. He -does- have a tail if you check the sprites from DKC1, so he could thwack enemies with it, as well.
- Klaptraps are fun. Don't see why he couldn't set some loose scurrying back and forth in the stage, like a more hostile Waddle Dee for Brawl Dedede.
I guess his main hook would be a "human cannonball," in that he's a solid mass that hits like a truck and is capable of quick, sudden movements. Conversely, he's a big target and likely to be juggled!
But yeah, I really doubt we'll see K. Rool in playable form, or really any form for that matter. I do like his character, though.
Holy crap that avatar man! I don't know what to make of it but it looks awesome!
Edit:
I'm surprised no one has replied Neiteio with "THAT WOULD BE TITS!" since its in his avatar and all...
If there's a Gen 3 rep the signs are point to sceptile. Then we'd have full evolutions of each of the starter types, and Sceptile would be a good middle weight to Chairzards heavy and Greninja's light. He also has a newly introduced mega evolution.
Personally I don't like Sceptile but he'd fit the role pretty well.
Sakurai doesn't care about quotas, in this case type lineups or gen representation. There'd have to be an interesting gameplay hook to Sceptile. Sakurai wouldn't force him just to meet some arbitrary quota.
The Great Gonzales
Member
Even though Dixie is more relevant these days, I'd rather have K. Rool. He's simply more interesting to me; Dixie is pretty similar (at least aesthetically) to Diddy, whereas there's no one on the roster who's like K. Rool. Bowser's about the closest one, but other than being big, green, and lizardlike, they'd be completely different, especially if K. Rool was in his pirate getup.
Of course, you could just ask, "why not both K. Rool and Dixie?" That would be ideal, but if there can be only one, I'd definitely want K. Rool.
Right, I didn't mean to argue along those lines - I didn't mean to argue against anything you said, really - I was just expressing my distaste for your all-too-realistic "Ultra Smash Bros. for Wii U" idea.
EDIT: and on the topic of K. Rool, the moveset you outlined above would be exactly what I'd want out of him. But I agree he's not very likely, and I think Dixie would certainly get in over him.
Of course, you could just ask, "why not both K. Rool and Dixie?" That would be ideal, but if there can be only one, I'd definitely want K. Rool.
Right, I didn't mean to argue along those lines - I didn't mean to argue against anything you said, really - I was just expressing my distaste for your all-too-realistic "Ultra Smash Bros. for Wii U" idea.
EDIT: and on the topic of K. Rool, the moveset you outlined above would be exactly what I'd want out of him. But I agree he's not very likely, and I think Dixie would certainly get in over him.
I'd imagine King K. Rool will be at least a trophy. It'd be almost insulting to have Kremlings as enemies, and not a trophy of K. Rool.
If K. Rool is playable, I imagine (DKCTF spoilers, if anyone gives a shit)
the final boss
Thanks! It's shamelessly stolen from /v/ though. I've seen it posted a few times but not very often on there, and I kinda wanted it to get more recognition, cause I thought it was fucking hilarious.
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