Unless you give that moveset to a different, recurring character. Like Impa, or work it into a redesigned Ganondorf.
I doubt they've been separated, though.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Super Smash Bros Wii U & 3DS Thread 4: New Year, Old Arguments
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
Unless you give that moveset to a different, recurring character. Like Impa, or work it into a redesigned Ganondorf.
I doubt they've been separated, though.
MannyToons
Member
I would actually love for Yoshi to end up being redesigned for Smash Bros.. Looking more dinosaur-like like in his earlier days instead of his current obnoxiously humanoid design.
MrSaturn99
Member
Aside from whatever we'll get for Mother, these are the stages I want to see the most. My guess is we'll get something from either Epic Yarn/RTDL for Wii U (along with the return of the Halberd), but I'm not too sure what'll happen with the 3DS version. Hmm.
Sheik's move set would fit Ganondorf even less than Captain Falcon's, and I don't see why the popular Smash Bros. veteran Sheikah would be cut for a different Sheikah that nobody asked for. Also, the Zelda characters are using their Twilight Princess designs again so they'd have to create an original TP look for Impa, which doesn't make much sense. If Sheik's cut, I really don't see there being any "replacement" for her.
Tons of people have been asking for Impa since Melee, so I'm not sure what you're getting at there, but Young Impa's design in SS actually fits in pretty well with the others and it'd cover the void of "recent franchise representation" like we get with Rosalina without having to affect Mario's current moveset.
I'm not expecting it either way, but Impa would hardly be a crazy choice.
How would Impa be "recent franchise representation" when she's been around forever?
Because they could use the Skyward Sword design?
Again, that doesn't really make any sense. Why would they mix and match mainline designs like that? If Sakurai's good for anything, it's consistency.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
To be honest, I don't really like the idea of transformations (Sheik, Pokemon Trainer) because it takes away from each individual character. I feel like I have to spread the love evenly between each one during a single match since I use every character in the game.
They've taken and tweaked the unused concept art for Shiek in TP to fit in Brawl, there's no reason they can't do that with Young Impa's design either. Skyward Sword's designs take after Twilight Princess era models even if the game uses a different coloring and shading style, so they'd still look pretty consistent standing next to each other. And if it's really that big an issue, they could update Impa from OoT just to keep the moveset.
When he's already going as far as retaining Toon Link as a character I don't think there's any reason to assume any character would be dropped, even if they just end up moved into their own unique slot.
Smiles and Cries
Member
just looking for why Zelda was trending on twitter
If Sakurai was dead set on keeping Sheik's move set, he wouldn't cut her to begin with -- which brings me back to my original concern that dropping Zelda's transformation move would be a terrible idea. That's why I'm really hoping the Phantom isn't a special move, because that wouldn't bode well for Sheik.
What's stopping them from using Impa's Skyward Sword design? Why would they have to redesign her to look like she came from Twilight Princess? They didn't do that with Toon Link, did they? Obviously, they want the core Zelda cast (Link, Zelda, Ganondorf) to share the same designs, but I don't see the problem with using a Skyward Sword design for another character like Impa or Ghirahim. Ghirahim, while I believe he has a ton of potential, is probably unlikely due to being a one-off villain, but I can imagine Impa making the cut, if only to replace Sheik and take her move set. That doesn't need to happen, but having Impa replace Sheik might be a safer option for the future. I doubt Sheik's ever coming back in a Zelda game, but you can bet on Impa reappearing again at some point. If, down the road, they make a new Zelda game that redesigns Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf again, they're going to be in a pickle regarding Sheik in Smash Bros. once it comes time for the next one. I think putting Sheik in Smash Bros. in the first place was a bad idea, like Dr. Mario, Pichu, Roy, etc. That said, I don't want to see a unique character be removed, unless of course they're going to give that move set to another character, like Impa.
...I'm still bitter that we're probably not going to get Tingle as a Zelda newcomer, but whatever, lol.
No, because it's Toon Link, not Smash Bros.' regular old "Link." The "standard" Zelda characters have always shared art styles. Imagine Wind Waker Link as the sole Link and TP Zelda as the sole Zelda. That would never happen.
SkullHydra
Member
STOP THIEF!!!
Impa is not a "standard" Zelda character in this scenario, as Shiek no longer is either. They had to drudge up concept art that was ultimately cut from one game just to keep that consistency before, and Shiek hasn't reappeared since.
one of you needs to flip yours, then it'll look like you're smirking at each other
ArchedThunder
Banned
I'm not saying that something like you describe would happen. It's understandable that they've kept the designs of Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf consistent in the Smash Bros. games so far, but why can't they have a different character sporting a different design, like Toon Link? I realize that Toon Link wouldn't have any other design, obviously, but it's just an example. Skyward Sword's design isn't exactly radically different from Twilight Princess's design, anyway. Skyward Sword Impa would fit in pretty well, I'd imagine.
I meant "standard" as in "not cel-shaded." The Zelda series is visually reimagined with each new entry, but Wind Waker is unique in that its art style was reused in Four Swords Adventures, Minish Cap, Phantom Hourglass, and Spirit Tracks. Toon Link is special in that regard, and so it makes a ton of sense that he'd be playable. I don't know why people thought he'd be cut in the first place. (Is it because he's a "clone"?)
Impa looked a certain way in the original Zelda, she looked different in Ocarina of Time, different in Skyward Sword, and so on -- just like Link, Zelda, Ganon, and the other recurring characters. We know based on Link and Zelda that the "main" Zelda characters will use their Twilight Princess designs in the new Smash Bros., which is why it doesn't make any sense to single out Impa as a "Skyward Sword rep." Link and Zelda were in those games too, so why don't they have their Skyward Sword looks?
With that said, Impa's never going to be playable, so I don't even know what the point of this conversation/argument is. There's nowhere to go from here.
I think he's just jumping or in the process of getting hit.
I've been thinking about this ever since Zelda initially got revealed, and the way the Phantom looks including the purplish hue akin to how it was used in Spirit Track means it just has to be a new move.
Although I don't think Sheik has been separated from Zelda because they are essentially the same person. I now have the idea that the transformation might have been mapped to a taunt button. That way, they would both have something new to bring to the fray without detaching each other as fighters.
Say if it sounds ridiculous or not, because it could be. It was just a thought. Someone else might've said this pages back too.
Although I don't think Sheik has been separated from Zelda because they are essentially the same person. I now have the idea that the transformation might have been mapped to a taunt button. That way, they would both have something new to bring to the fray without detaching each other as fighters.
Say if it sounds ridiculous or not, because it could be. It was just a thought. Someone else might've said this pages back too.
SkullHydra
Member
Hehehe.
The only reason why I even suggest Impa is because Sakurai may want to do something different with Zelda, yet keep Sheik's move set intact somehow. Otherwise I wouldn't ever believe she'd have a chance at being playable either. But you never know. I wouldn't completely dismiss her, because if we do end up getting another Zelda character, she's one of the top characters to be considered, I'm sure. Like Tingle, she's a very recurring character and has a lot of importance to the franchise. Sakurai has broken "rules" before, so I wouldn't rule her out completely. Rosalina was a surprise to many people, after all, considering that, prior to her appearance in Smash Bros., she had only appeared in the Galaxy games as a non-playable character and as a racer in Mario Kart (I doubt Sakurai even knew about her being playable in Super Mario 3D World at the time he decided to include her in the roster, so I doubt that appearance had any influence on his decision to put her in the game).
Regarding design, again, there's no reason why it couldn't happen. We know why it hasn't happened yet (because previously all Zelda characters, with the exception of Toon Link, have had a recent design from the same game that they could all be based on, even if concept art had to be used in Sheik's case for Brawl), but what's to say that they won't go a different route if they do decide to add a character from Skyward Sword or another Zelda game that isn't cel-shaded or Twilight Princess and doesn't have a Twilight Princess design? We simply don't know.
Yeah, I obviously don't know what's going to happen, and I can say with absolute certainty that I'm going to be blown away by some unexpected newcomer reveal in the near future, but the Sheik/Impa replacement situation is just something I can't see coming to pass. I could be wrong, though, and I don't like sounding like an ass (which happens all too frequently, and I apologize for that), so I think I'm going to settle down for a bit.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Good. I don't think Tingle should be Zelda Newcomer.
Because like most recurring characters, their designs and movesets were ported almost directly from Brawl, and they already resemble the majority of their designs throughout the series. Skyward Sword was a bit of a departure and wouldn't resemble the series as a whole. But for the first time they're actually seem to be putting a lot of effort in reworking certain characters. Zelda's playable incarnation in Smash Brothers prior had almost nothing to do with the role she had in the games. She never used any of the magic abilities she had there in the games with the exception of transforming into Shiek, which was strictly a one-time deal, though still relevant at the time.
We're now at a point where Zelda's character is possibly being re-envisioned, as a number of games have come out since that have given her a more involved role and have shown some of the capabilities she has. If that's the case, they might not be exact representations (just as her original character wasn't), but they would err more closely to representations of the character we've seen since. Let's say they do come up with a moveset that is uniquely Zelda, and fills all the niches that Shiek used to fill as a counterpart to her. If Zelda is now totally 100% Zelda and no longer requires or has the transformation move, do you chuck a fully realized and conceptually complete character? Shiek in Smash Brothers is a character all their own as well, with a fully realized moveset (that still borders on the creative side, as the only real ability that Shiek carried over from Ocarina of Time is the smoke bomb recovery). If you do, that's a waste and would alienate a number of fans of the playstyle, which has seen heavy usage in tournaments.
So if you want to include as many characters as possible (which he clearly does, based on interviews and the number of characters from Brawl we've seen ported almost verbatim), you retain the moveset and put it on another fitting character. A character that has similar series status to Link and Zelda (having appeared in the background since the first game) and has appeared in the series as recently as its last two entries, Impa. Impa's design in Skyward Sword actually uses a lot of the concepts from Shiek's designs in Ocarina of Time and the scrapped one from Twilight Princess. A Shiekah Eye on her torso, wrapped hands, the ponytail, her mouth and neck covered. If we're to assume that Shiek's moveset in Smash Bros. prior was just a representation of generic Shiekah ability, they would fit her just as well (and Impa in Skyward Sword also has a potential replacement for the transformation move - a bomb-like power which she uses to destroy the gate of time). The character already fits in well with the renditions we've seen of Link and Zelda, and it takes similar design cues and elements from Twilight Princess and prior Shiek designs. Of course he would modify it to make it more uniform in terms of palette and aesthetic flourishes, just as he did the Shiek design in Brawl.
There's no reason to assume that if spun off of Zelda, Shiek would just be thrown out entirely. There's plenty of room for her to exist on the roster, if just in a different form, and Impa would just be one way of doing it.
I really want Toon Zelda. For one, I like the Wind Waker character designs. But perhaps more importantly, we dont have any small/cartoony female characters. Samus, Peach, Zelda, Wii Fit Trainer, and Rosalina are all taller and semi-realistically proportioned. A female Villager costume would be a start, but Id like to see more than that.
I feel like if they add another toon character it should be Toon Ganondorf. One of my favorite interpretations of the character and just imagine those dual swords and puppet ganon final smash.
I'm playing through Chibi Robo on GC for the first time right now, and realizing how well he would work as a fighter. Chibi copter recovery, squirt gun, vacuum cleaner, laser gun attacks, drake redcrest final smash... There's a lot that they could do with him. The series is now at 5 titles as well, spanning a decade.
Starphoenix
Member
Oh my word. The graphics in this game. :O
I think the potential Zelda newcomer is one of the most difficult things to predict about the new Smash Bros. Since The Legend of Zelda is one of Nintendo's biggest franchises, I think it's likely that we'll get another Zelda newcomer this time around, but who?!
Ideally, I'd expect Tingle, since he's one of the most recurring Zelda characters and the only Zelda character to have his own spin-off games. Honestly, when it comes to importance to the Zelda franchise, Tingle deserves the spot above all other Zelda characters, in my opinion. Unfortunately, with Villager taking a Balloon Fight inspired move that could have easily been Tingle's (and would have made more sense), I don't think he's very likely.
Other than Tingle, I struggle to find any Zelda characters that are worthy of being a new playable character in Smash Bros. There's Ghirahim, who I believe has a ton of potential and is bursting with character, but he's just a one-off villain, and not even the main villain of his game at that. But, hey, he wouldn't be the first one-off character to become a playable character in Smash Bros.
And then there's Impa, whom I already gave my thoughts on. I'd only really expect her if she was added to replace Sheik, but she is one of the more recurring Zelda characters.
Regarding Toon Zelda/Tetra (lol, Toon Sheik), I love The Wind Waker and I love Tetra's character, so it would be great to see, but I don't really expect it. Yeah, she was supposedly planned for Brawl, but I don't think that means we should necessarily expect her this time around. Times change, and she wasn't given priority in Brawl for a reason. I wouldn't expect most of the Forbidden 7 to get a second chance in the new Smash Bros. Out of all of them, I only really expect Mewtwo to show up this time. I believe Roy and Dr. Mario were wise cuts and should stay such after missing out on Brawl, and I don't anticipate Plusle & Minun joining the cast anytime soon. Dixie Kong I could see happening, but she wouldn't be the Diddy/Dixie tag team that Sakurai was planning for Brawl originally.
Also, if Toon Zelda/Tetra made it in, it would feel incomplete without Toon Ganondorf as well, and I don't think that's going to happen.
Ideally, I'd expect Tingle, since he's one of the most recurring Zelda characters and the only Zelda character to have his own spin-off games. Honestly, when it comes to importance to the Zelda franchise, Tingle deserves the spot above all other Zelda characters, in my opinion. Unfortunately, with Villager taking a Balloon Fight inspired move that could have easily been Tingle's (and would have made more sense), I don't think he's very likely.
Other than Tingle, I struggle to find any Zelda characters that are worthy of being a new playable character in Smash Bros. There's Ghirahim, who I believe has a ton of potential and is bursting with character, but he's just a one-off villain, and not even the main villain of his game at that. But, hey, he wouldn't be the first one-off character to become a playable character in Smash Bros.
And then there's Impa, whom I already gave my thoughts on. I'd only really expect her if she was added to replace Sheik, but she is one of the more recurring Zelda characters.
Regarding Toon Zelda/Tetra (lol, Toon Sheik), I love The Wind Waker and I love Tetra's character, so it would be great to see, but I don't really expect it. Yeah, she was supposedly planned for Brawl, but I don't think that means we should necessarily expect her this time around. Times change, and she wasn't given priority in Brawl for a reason. I wouldn't expect most of the Forbidden 7 to get a second chance in the new Smash Bros. Out of all of them, I only really expect Mewtwo to show up this time. I believe Roy and Dr. Mario were wise cuts and should stay such after missing out on Brawl, and I don't anticipate Plusle & Minun joining the cast anytime soon. Dixie Kong I could see happening, but she wouldn't be the Diddy/Dixie tag team that Sakurai was planning for Brawl originally.
Also, if Toon Zelda/Tetra made it in, it would feel incomplete without Toon Ganondorf as well, and I don't think that's going to happen.
Choppasmith
Member
I'm kinda late on this but Wooo! Dedede! My favorite heavy character! What was Sakurai's comment on Miiverse? Couldn't find it while digging through the other pages.
SkullHydra
Member
There's an easy solution to this problem.
Wonder Red uses his Down Special to transform into the other Wonderful Ones, ala Pokémon Trainer.
Plz Sakurai!
Oh my word. The graphics in this game. :O
Art direction, and models.. maybe. Those textures are kind of blah though.
Midna would be awesome, and she was one of my most wanted newcomers for Brawl (in retrospect, though, Toon Link was a much more appropriate newcomer), but I can't imagine her making the cut now. Besides, if we're talking about one-off characters like Midna, I'd expect Ghirahim before her, not only because he's more recent but also because he'd be a great rep for Skyward Sword. Pretty much every other big 3D console Zelda game is represented through characters in Smash Bros. at this point except Skyward Sword. Ocarina of Time is represented through Zelda's move set and Sheik, Twilight Princess is represented in the appearance of Link, Zelda, Sheik, and Ganondorf, and The Wind Waker is represented with Toon Link (lol, no love for Majora's Mask).
Midna would be nice.
ThisThere's an easy solution to this problem.
Wonder Red uses his Down Special to transform into the other Wonderful Ones, ala Pokémon Trainer.Plz Sakurai!
Oh my word. The graphics in this game. :O
Where is this from?
edit: Just saw. Think it deserves a new thread, no?
Oh my word. The graphics in this game. :O
Less graphics; more artstyle.
Fake edit: Beaten.
Back in the day where I'd fantasize about what the roster for the next game would be, I wondered if the best option for a new Yoshi newcomer wouldn't be Yoshi...with babies. Carrying Baby Mario/Peach/Bowser in his back, and switching between them would make his moveset change accordingly.
I seriously don't think it will be the case, but I wonder if Yoshi's taken so long to be revealed because they're doing a major redesign to his moveset that involves something like this?
Nah, likely just Sakurai Sakuraing.
I seriously don't think it will be the case, but I wonder if Yoshi's taken so long to be revealed because they're doing a major redesign to his moveset that involves something like this?
Nah, likely just Sakurai Sakuraing.
Just replace her with SS Impa, problem solved and SS stage is actually somewhat relevant to Zelda reps.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Nope. We already have Zelda Thread, and why should a single picture have a new thread? You can bump Zelda Thread with the pictures tho.
If we do ever get a new Yoshi character, I'd like to see Kamek.
But I don't think we're ever going to get a new Yoshi character.
lolChet Rippo
Member
It's his best voice to be honest.