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[andshrew]

External drive support would alleviate the issue for PS4 at least.

This isn't really an issue of hoarding, it's one of convenience. The issue is that games can't just be played anymore.

If I want to revisit a game from the past I generally want to play it there and then; not in 45 minutes to an hours time due to having to wait for the game to install, and then download patches.

If you have no intention of ever replaying old games then sure, this isn't going to be an issue for you.

 

[BriGuy]

I understand why people would think it's strange, but I think it's rather neat to be able to hold a hard drive and say, all my Xbox/PS4 games are on here. More so Xbox, due to it's external HDD support, but you hopefully can see what I'm saying.

I don't think anyone is going to go on Antiques Roadshow 2050 with a loose hard drive and impress anybody.

Yeah, it's convenient, but I wouldn't necessarily call it "collecting" in the traditional sense. There's little value in something that can be so easily and instantaneously duplicated. No one is shelling out big bucks for a picture of a Honus Wagner rookie card obtained from Google images.

 

[NIGHT-]

Still can't believe Sony hasn't allowed full external HDD support....

 

[Scrawnton]

When I got my first 3ds XL I got a 32gb sd card for $20 and thought it'd last me the entire gen. When I got my n3DS XL I had to buy a micro sd and I figured I'd spend a little more and get a 64gb card. Now I am sitting her planning on buying Dragon Quest 7 and 8, FF Explorers, Bravely Second, and Fire Emblem Fates and wondering if I am going to hit my limit on the 64gb card. I am like the op, I like keeping ALL of my game purchases on my 3DS at the same time. It's nice to have instant access.

The only silver lining is that my gf is a photographer and could always use my 64gb card if I need to upgrade.

 

[Krejlooc]

Do you actually have any facts besides anecdotal evidence that you can't even prove?

stop talking in absolutes when you don't know jack into what goes in modern development.

Also most developers don't bother compressing and optimizing their games since they figure they can just rely on the storage

I can't refer you to anything or prove you wrong

Lol

 

[Genio88]

Next gen simply must be equipped with a 2TB SSD minimum.

Keep on dreaming, they'll still have hard disks, SSD will still be too expensive, especially 2TB ones, at least let's hope they'll be a good quality 7200rpm hard disk instead of crap 5400rpm

 

[Stallion Dan]

It's the patch data that really sucks, if you could delete the 25-40GB disc install but keep the 1-2GB patch data then swapping discs and reinstalling takes a minute or two at best, but when you gotta wait for the patches to redownload it is a major roadblock to just popping in a game disc to play.

 

[gconsole]

If you have money to buy that many games. Maybe the second PS4 with another 2TB HDD wouldn't be such a bad idea...

 

[blastprocessor]

It's a hassle but like some have suggested, delete the games you have completed.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

It's a hassle but like some have suggested, delete the games you have completed.

The problem with this approach is that I have a bunch of games that can't be "completed" like multiplayer shooters, fighting games and sports games. Those are usually the games with the moat patches and DLC to be reinstalled too.

 

[HamsterExAstris]

It's the patch data that really sucks, if you could delete the 25-40GB disc install but keep the 1-2GB patch data then swapping discs and reinstalling takes a minute or two at best, but when you gotta wait for the patches to redownload it is a major roadblock to just popping in a game disc to play.

That sounds good at first until you do the math and realize that games would take even more space with this system. Patches normally replace at least part of the game data, reducing the total space usage. That wouldn't be possible if the patch data had to be kept separate. Suddenly Destiny would bloat from 60 GB to 80 GB used.

 

[Green Yoshi]

Wouldn't it be possible for developers to decrease the install sizes? Some data could be streamed from the Blu-ray disc drive.

 

[Subaru]

Still can't believe Sony hasn't allowed full external HDD support....

Yeah, that's the problem.
I've changed my PS4 HDD to 1TB and added 1TB on Xbox One. I already had to delete some games from PS4 while everything is installed on my Xbox One.

Now, I'm buying some games (like Resident Evil Zero Remake) on Xbox One because it have more space available and I don't have to delete anything.

 

[RayearthRob]

Every generation of consoles has its limits, and I'm starting to run into the biggest one of the eighth gen: system storage, specifically on the PS4.

The Xbox One has the best storage options since it allows for multiple external drives and AFAIK you can still delete data individually (DLC/install/etc). The only storage problem with the console is the inability to change the internal drive but the external drive support mitigates that.

The Wii U system storage has always been a complete goddamn joke but again, you can hook up externals to it so it's not insurmountable.

The PS4 is the fucking worst with this. You can change the internal HDD but only to another 2.5" drive, maxing out at 2tb. You can't separate update data from DLC from install data, meaning that you have to delete the game's entire data package to remove anything. There's no support for externals of any kind. You could use the Nyko Data Bank for a higher capacity 3.5" drive but OOPS the PS4 firmware will only work reliably with 2tb or less, making the product a complete waste of time. I have to constantly delete and redownload games since there's no goddamn way to keep the install data separate from the other game data and no external drive support.

The thing is, even with external support you have to keep feeding the systems external drives if you don't want to constantly redownload/reinstall everything all the time. In my experience most modern retail games average out at 40-50gb per title after you've downloaded all of the extra patches/etc with it. Unless you want to spend a shitload of money and make a 3.5" self-powered external you're stuck with buying 2tb slim drives, which can fit 40-50 retail games each. That may sound like a lot, but for a collector it becomes a huge added cost. I have 200+ retail Xbox 360 games...if I end up that way with the PS4, providing Sony adds external support, that's an automatic added cost of at least three additional external drives plus a 2tb internal, if I don't download anything other than retail games. I'll probably end up needing another 2-4tb of date for the various download-only games and applications and whatever. Plus it will look ugly as shit to have a bunch of external drives plus a hub hanging around the system on my entertainment center, meaning more time and money spent trying to make the giant spider web of externals invisible.

This wasn't really a problem for me with seventh gen consoles since I mained the 360, where disc installs were optional, and stuck to exclusives for the PS3, which had smallish installs that were mostly manageable in the XMB.

I realize that this isn't really a problem for most people since they'll just delete older stuff for the new but as a collector it's a total goddamn nightmare.

Wii U don't install retail games into the HDD. So I don't think it's a joke.

Ok, 32gb is not enough, but you will only use to digital games and dlc, so... It's not a big problem when you can easily plug an external driver.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Won't be a problem for me personally. I install game, play game, beat game, uninstall game, repeat with new game. So I suppose people like me are the cause for OP's issue since manufacturers don't have a reason to improve space to sell me something.

 

[KORNdoggy]

people "collect" digital games? wow. i didn't know that was a thing.

 

[SmokedMeat]

External HDD storage is one of the reasons the Bone is my main console this gen. I've got a 2TB HDDin my PS4, but there's no way it's going to hold what I need until the end of the gen.

And no I don't like the idea of having to delete and reinstall games I want to play.

 

[Shuggananas]

Keep on dreaming, they'll still have hard disks, SSD will still be too expensive, especially 2TB ones, at least let's hope they'll be a good quality 7200rpm hard disk instead of crap 5400rpm

lol yeah, even then 2TB SSDs will be $200+, while a 2TB HDD will be about... 30-40 maybe ? Don't know
What could be nice would be a "storage" HDD where you put all your games, and then a SSD on which you copy games you're currently playing. A 250 GB SSD would suffice for that I'd say. Don't know if it'd be easy to manage though.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

This has to be fixed eventually. The Xbox 360 has better storage options than the PS4 now. I just popped in a huge flash drive into my 360 and now it's a speed demon.

 

[Tobor]

8th Gen console's biggest problem is something that affects less than a percent of gamers.

I think they'll be fine.

Haha, that's what I was going to say. If this is the biggest issue, it's smooth sailing.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I imagine either next gen or a new model of current gen will come out with better storage capabilities at the sacrifice of the optical drive.

 

[JoduanER2]

I would delete the disc install data but you can't on the PS4, which is my main console. You have to delete EVERYTHING that's not save data every goddamn time. There's no way to preserve DLC and updates separately, which was never a problem with the 360/PS3.

THIS, F**K PS4 and it storage space. Many of us are using 500GB which is NOTHING, a regular game uses 50GB and if i have a couple of games which i use regulary i have to constally delete them and redownload the patches which are mostly 1gb or more... (Some can be 10gb!!) Wtf is this shit.

 

[ThatStupidLion]

I feel like you cant be a true collector if what youre "collecting" are digital goods.

Boils down to pros and cons of physical vs. digital.

Ie. You brought this on yourself - a console company shouldnt be expected to handle over 2tbs at the time the ps4 launched.

Prob more of an expense to the company to ensure the niche of people whod use over 2tbs than it would be worth.

 

[TheGrue]

Collectors don't play games, they collect.

Then they should feel good having collected them on Sony's/Microsoft's/Nintendo's store.

 

[Mr. Nice_Guy]

It's the patch data that really sucks, if you could delete the 25-40GB disc install but keep the 1-2GB patch data then swapping discs and reinstalling takes a minute or two at best, but when you gotta wait for the patches to redownload it is a major roadblock to just popping in a game disc to play.

This. I just switched my hard drive and even with my above average Internet, the patches took hours to redownload.

 

[rawd]

Or just delete games when you're done with them.

Which I've done with every console dating back to my Atari 2600.

 

[Boomshaw]

I've gone pure 100% digital this generation and it feels oh so good. Luckily i'm on xbox one. So with external drives plugged in, it isnt an issue for me....yet.

I love having my entire games library all installed ready to go. I just wish microsoft would make the game library cleaner looking.

As for ps4 owners, inwouldnt worry. Im sure they will get external drive support in 2016.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

I feel like you cant be a true collector if what youre "collecting" are digital goods.

Boils down to pros and cons of physical vs. digital.

Ie. You brought this on yourself - a console company shouldnt be expected to handle over 2tbs at the time the ps4 launched.

Prob more of an expense to the company to ensure the niche of people whod use over 2tbs than it would be worth.

I collect physical games, which have to be installed from the disc to the PS4/X1 HDD before they can be used. Seriously, how many people do not understand this? Do you own a modern console?

Added to the OP...Jesus H people.

 

[Arttemis]

Since people keep bringing this up: I collect physical games. The data problem is the same since they have to be installed to the hard drive before they can be played.

Every generation of consoles has its limits, and I'm starting to run into the biggest one of the eighth gen: system storage, specifically on the PS4.

The Xbox One has the best storage options since it allows for multiple external drives and AFAIK you can still delete data individually (DLC/install/etc). The only storage problem with the console is the inability to change the internal drive but the external drive support mitigates that.

The Wii U system storage has always been a complete goddamn joke but again, you can hook up externals to it so it's not insurmountable.

The PS4 is the fucking worst with this. You can change the internal HDD but only to another 2.5" drive, maxing out at 2tb. You can't separate update data from DLC from install data, meaning that you have to delete the game's entire data package to remove anything. There's no support for externals of any kind. You could use the Nyko Data Bank for a higher capacity 3.5" drive but OOPS the PS4 firmware will only work reliably with 2tb or less, making the product a complete waste of time. I have to constantly delete and redownload games since there's no goddamn way to keep the install data separate from the other game data and no external drive support.

The thing is, even with external support you have to keep feeding the systems external drives if you don't want to constantly redownload/reinstall everything all the time. In my experience most modern retail games average out at 40-50gb per title after you've downloaded all of the extra patches/etc with it. Unless you want to spend a shitload of money and make a 3.5" self-powered external you're stuck with buying 2tb slim drives, which can fit 40-50 retail games each. That may sound like a lot, but for a collector it becomes a huge added cost. I have 200+ retail Xbox 360 games...if I end up that way with the PS4, providing Sony adds external support, that's an automatic added cost of at least three additional external drives plus a 2tb internal, if I don't download anything other than retail games. I'll probably end up needing another 2-4tb of date for the various download-only games and applications and whatever. Plus it will look ugly as shit to have a bunch of external drives plus a hub hanging around the system on my entertainment center, meaning more time and money spent trying to make the giant spider web of externals invisible.

This wasn't really a problem for me with seventh gen consoles since I mained the 360, where disc installs were optional, and stuck to exclusives for the PS3, which had smallish installs that were mostly manageable in the XMB.

I realize that this isn't really a problem for most people since they'll just delete older stuff for the new but as a collector it's a total goddamn nightmare.

OP, the PS4 was updated to support over 2TB with the 2.0 firmware.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

OP, the PS4 was updated to support over 2TB with the 2.0 firmware.

Not reliably:

2TB limit

Nyko recommends going with hard drives that are 2TB or smaller. But as I stated before, I went with a 3TB drive. So what’s the problem here?

Sony, unfortunately, is the problem.

The publisher hasn’t updated the PlayStation 4 firmware so that it can handle drives larger than 2TB. So far, the only feature that suffers is sleep mode. The PlayStation 4 did not appreciate being put to sleep with the 3TB drive and required a hard boot to wake up. Once woken up, it had to do a data check and accused me of shutting it off improperly. It’s just best for everyone involved to power the machine off when not in use.

So until Sony pushes their coders to raise the storage capacity ceiling in the software, I have to decide on which luxury is better fit for me: more storage or less waiting for game updates to install when I get home?

http://venturebeat.com/2015/08/07/n...ave-plenty-of-playstation-4-hard-drive-space/

 

[leeh]

I don't think anyone is going to go on Antiques Roadshow 2050 with a loose hard drive and impress anybody.

Yeah, it's convenient, but I wouldn't necessarily call it "collecting" in the traditional sense. There's little value in something that can be so easily and instantaneously duplicated. No one is shelling out big bucks for a picture of a Honus Wagner rookie card obtained from Google images.

I don't think people would ever go on Antiques Roadshow with a game in 2050 or even far in the future.

Oh no, I wouldn't call it collecting either, but it's the same concept. I have a physical medium where all my games are, it's just a hard-drive and not a huge set of game discs and cases. I can also take it with me to a friends house and plug it in, so I can play all the games in my 'collection' without having to install/download any games. Something which is better this gen, since if you brought a physical game disc, you still have the awful process of installing it (on the Xbox anyway), rather than the plug and play of the HDD. Something which is a lot more convenient as well, considering what I've just said and the physical size of it.

As you can tell, I'm rather the digital advocate. Something which my 9 friends embrace.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Not reliably:



http://venturebeat.com/2015/08/07/n...ave-plenty-of-playstation-4-hard-drive-space/

Is that Sony, or is it the peripheral that they're reviewing?

Also, that was written nearly 4-5 months ago. You know how many stability updates there have been?

 

[jogu]

Make a console with a small amount of flash for system level data such as the OS and accounts.

Then add a hard drive for game data. Put it in an easily accessible place on the system, and make it swappable.

And if it's casing looks like this, I wouldn't complain.

Nice idea, but system storage should then be way bigger than the needed space for potetial future updates.

 

[DryvBy]

I've installed a 2TB and have most everything installed right now (I own a lot of games so far this gen). I'm fine.

 

[NewDust]

Not reliably:



http://venturebeat.com/2015/08/07/n...ave-plenty-of-playstation-4-hard-drive-space/

The problem isn't the hdd size, but some hdd do a full power down, or take longer to spin up.

If you'd go external with these drives it means, you have to power on the drive first, then power on the ps4. Obviously this doesn't work with the Nyko databank, because it piggybacks it power from the ps4 supply.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

What we really need is faster storage. Both consoles being limited by SATA II and 5400rpm HDDs is the biggest bottleneck aside from the CPUs.

The next consoles need SATA III support and come standard with SSDs.

 

[DJ Lushious]

I am a "collector" and have a very large PS4 collection already. And I delete games I don't play any more. Or if I play them again, then I reinstall them. No big deal. And yes, I have upgraded my HDD and no, re-downloading patches/DLCs don't bother me very much at all.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

The thing is that consoles become more and more like PCs. Why the hell do I need to install Fallout 4 or MGS5 for sometimes over 1 hour?

The argument for playing a console is: Pop in a game, start playing.
I just don't understand the intention behind console concepts nowadays.
If I wanted to install my games, I'd buy a PC with better hard drives and more storage options.
If I'd buy said PC, I wouldn't need a dumb-downed version on my console...

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

Is that Sony, or is it the peripheral that they're reviewing?

Also, that was written nearly 4-5 months ago. You know how many stability updates there have been?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00UA55ZRI/?tag=neogaf0e-20 , sort to recent reviews.

It's still a problem if you want to use Rest Mode, which is the main way to download PS4 content without sitting around to wait.

Edit:

The problem isn't the hdd size, but some hdd do a full power down, or take longer to spin up.

If you'd go external with these drives it means, you have to power on the drive first, then power on the ps4. Obviously this doesn't work with the Nyko databank, because it piggybacks it power from the ps4 supply.

Interesting, wonder if there's a way to power the Data Bank without a piggyback.

 

[majindan]

Since people keep bringing this up: I collect physical games. The data problem is the same since they have to be installed to the hard drive before they can be played.

Every generation of consoles has its limits, and I'm starting to run into the biggest one of the eighth gen: system storage, specifically on the PS4.

The Xbox One has the best storage options since it allows for multiple external drives and AFAIK you can still delete data individually (DLC/install/etc). The only storage problem with the console is the inability to change the internal drive but the external drive support mitigates that.

The Wii U system storage has always been a complete goddamn joke but again, you can hook up externals to it so it's not insurmountable.

The PS4 is the fucking worst with this. You can change the internal HDD but only to another 2.5" drive, maxing out at 2tb. You can't separate update data from DLC from install data, meaning that you have to delete the game's entire data package to remove anything. There's no support for externals of any kind. You could use the Nyko Data Bank for a higher capacity 3.5" drive but OOPS the PS4 firmware will only work reliably with 2tb or less, making the product a complete waste of time. I have to constantly delete and redownload games since there's no goddamn way to keep the install data separate from the other game data and no external drive support.

The thing is, even with external support you have to keep feeding the systems external drives if you don't want to constantly redownload/reinstall everything all the time. In my experience most modern retail games average out at 40-50gb per title after you've downloaded all of the extra patches/etc with it. Unless you want to spend a shitload of money and make a 3.5" self-powered external you're stuck with buying 2tb slim drives, which can fit 40-50 retail games each. That may sound like a lot, but for a collector it becomes a huge added cost. I have 200+ retail Xbox 360 games...if I end up that way with the PS4, providing Sony adds external support, that's an automatic added cost of at least three additional external drives plus a 2tb internal, if I don't download anything other than retail games. I'll probably end up needing another 2-4tb of date for the various download-only games and applications and whatever. Plus it will look ugly as shit to have a bunch of external drives plus a hub hanging around the system on my entertainment center, meaning more time and money spent trying to make the giant spider web of externals invisible.

This wasn't really a problem for me with seventh gen consoles since I mained the 360, where disc installs were optional, and stuck to exclusives for the PS3, which had smallish installs that were mostly manageable in the XMB.

I realize that this isn't really a problem for most people since they'll just delete older stuff for the new but as a collector it's a total goddamn nightmare.

False. You can use a 3.5" drive but it'll force you to leave factory cover off console or order one that sticks up.

 

[Admodieus]

This is such a non-issue on the XBox One. Got a 4 TB external hard drive on sale last year, now I keep everything installed and I'm only at 15% of my storage capacity.

It's definitely an issue on the PS4 and Wii U, and people should be providing the necessary feedback to Sony and Nintendo.

 

[Incendiary]

I like to switch games when the mood strikes, especially when company is over. Nothing is worse than "Oh hey let's play this fun game together wait nope it'll take the whole night to install nevermind". I like to have things as ready-to-go as possible.

The main problem is that I can't delete just the disc data, which usually takes a few minutes at most to install. It's the DLC+updates that slows shit down.

This is the thing I miss most from older generations of gaming. Where you could have people over and just switch games/cartridges whenever you wanted to play a new game. Now when you want to switch you better already have the games installed or else you're waiting for a while. Rock Band is going to be a permanent install on my PS4 for example. I understand it's a function of game consoles becoming more PC-like but I miss the old days of plug-and-play.

 

[EGM1966]

Yup. PS4 is the worst indeed although I don't know if that's tied into it being best for installs too (which would be a bummer).

It would be so much easier if you could delete the core game and keep the patches, etc. making it easier to delete and re-install. With some games its a nightmare as re-installing means huge patch downloads too.

 

[AwRy108]

I would delete the disc install data but you can't on the PS4, which is my main console. You have to delete EVERYTHING that's not save data every goddamn time. There's no way to preserve DLC and updates separately, which was never a problem with the 360/PS3.

Yeah, I agree that this is a huge oversight with the PS4, and I hope it's something they can correct.

The OP's issue is why I still buy nearly everything on disc: at least it makes re-installing a little less of a headache vs. downloading a 30-50GB title and then all the updates.

Still, whether you're buying digital or physical, constantly cleaning the fridge SUCKS.

 

[Frabba]

So wait, OP is complaining that the PS4 can only go up to 2TB, but is still rocking the stock 500GB HDD?

 

[DidntKnowJack]

As someone who does collect from time to time, I made a rationalization at the beginning of this generation that outside of Nintendo, games aren't going to be worth collecting.

Sure, that's short sighted, if not a completely blind assertion, but I sleep better at night because of it.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

So wait, OP is complaining that the PS4 can only go up to 2TB, but is still rocking the stock 500GB HDD?

I don't see myself needing to upgrade from the stock 500GB unless I get a 7200rpm drive because I decided I didn't want to waste money and didn't go all digital this gen.

People who went all digital made numerous problems for themselves.

 

[Worldshaker]

As someone who does collect from time to time, I made a rationalization at the beginning of this generation that outside of Nintendo, games aren't going to be worth collecting.

Sure, that's short sighted, if not a comepletely blind assertion, but I sleep better at night because of it.

I also feel like going forward a lot of games will not be worth collecting. So many patches and updates that will eventually lose support. I don't see the games of today being playable in 20 years the same way SNES games are.

I'm sure there will be torrents or sites dedicated to preserving the content, but you'll have more hoops to go through.

 

[Certinty]

Well I've put a 2TB HDD in my PS4 and hooked up an external 1TB HDD to my Xbox One so I think on that front I'm all good.

Saying that I have used about 1.2TB of the 1.7 available on my PS4 and about 1.3TB of the 1.4 available on my Xbox One already but then I'm sure there's tons of stuff I could delete that I never play.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

So wait, OP is complaining that the PS4 can only go up to 2TB, but is still rocking the stock 500GB HDD?

Right, because not even one year after I got the console I'm already having to juggle data. If I upgrade to 2tb and install all of my disc games I'd be fine for at most a year before I'd run into the same damn problem with no way around it (unless Sony patches in external support).

For comparison I went the entire seventh gen with a 500gb PS3 and a 320gb 360 and only had to add a couple of thumb drives to the latter last year. If I get a 500gb 360 drive plus two 64gb USB sticks I'll be set for good. That's just not feasible with eighth gen consoles except maybe the Wii U since it doesn't force disc installs and lists data separately.