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[MaulerX]

Your skepticism is warranted. From playstation.com:



It's in Japanese, but Masayasu Ito, who leads the PlayStation hardware team, said in an interview last year that the drive in the launch PS4s can't read Ultra HD Blu-ray media, citing issues with the third layer.

This echoes what Albert Penello said about the optical drive in the launch Xbox One:



...and what Stacey Spears (who was intimately involved in all aspects of video output on the Xbox One) also said:





. . .

Sony took forever to get their first standalone Blu-ray player on the market too (although they turned it around faster than this).

I have no idea how much stock to put into this, but the speculation I've seen making the rounds for quite a long while on some of my home theater message boards is that Sony's Blu-ray players use MediaTek SoCs, and MediaTek's UHD BD SoC wasn't scheduled to even go into wide production until the second half of this year. That may be why it's taking as long as it is, although I don't think Sony would've been there with a player on day one (or month three or four) regardless.

Sony is very aggressively releasing Ultra HD Blu-ray software, though. They showed off a prototype UHD BD player at IFA earlier this month, and they'll almost certainly have more to say at their presser at CEDIA tomorrow. I can't imagine competing physical UHD media at this point. That's suicidal.

There you have it folks.It's all about that third layer. Don't set your selves up for disappointment with something that's not gonna happen. Sony themselves went on record saying it won't come.

 

[staticneuron]

So Playstation brand takes the"No UHD drive?!" PR hit so the electronics division can move 200k stand alone players?

I have heard this stated before. But last I checked Sony isn't selling any stand alone UHD players. Are they? What is the model name?

 

[Reagan's BR]

Similar to how Samsung manufactures iPhone parts but is also the biggest android competition for Apple.

 

[EdReedFan20]

I have heard this stated before. But last I checked Sony isn't selling any stand alone UHD players. Are they? What is the model name?

No. As the quote in the original post says, they will release one in 2017. They currently have upscaling Blu-Ray players, but those will not play UHD discs.

 

[c0de]

Adam explained why it won't happen - why is op still using a post that is wrong?

 

[BigTnaples]

Sucks that this happened. And unexpected.



Still getting the Pro obviously, but the exclusion of the UHD Blu Ray made me buy a XBO S as well, which arrived today. Costing me 300 extra bucks and causing MS to gain another console sale.


They should've been less worried about undercutting Sony Set top sales and more concerned with directly pushing sales toward the competition.

 

[NeOak]

Yes, same.

Ask yourself... your old Android phone can run easily the last Android version, why the maker didn't release an upgrade??? Because they want to sell a new phone.

Jesus Christ. Hardware differences, how do they work?

jeff_rigby, that you?

I'm going to put this into my original post. Nice summary!



No, I'm not sure. I was just reiterating what was said on the PSNation Podcast. They said UHD has a different consortium than the BDA.

Edit- A quick look seems to show that BDA is doing UHD. So I'm not sure where PSNation got their information.

Please remove that BS. ethomaz is talking out of his ass using jeff_rigby-like arguments.

 

[XMonkey]

Doesn't make sense. Besides it most likely not having the right drive, the undercutting Sony's own player reason is odd unless we assume Sony is gonna have a really high-priced player. Probably by the time Sony's player is out, the competition will have them for ~$300 or less so Sony can't price theirs too high. The PS4 shouldn't undercut it at that price range..

 

[Adam M]

If it would be possible via firmware update then why Microsoft did not update older Xbox One consoles to play 4K discs? So I think it's not possible, maybe you need some processing chip as well not just a simple disc drive to play 4K Blu-ray

 

[PuppetMaster]

This was my first guess as well. That some other division didnt want ps4 to have this.

 

[NeOak]

If it would be possible via firmware update then why Microsoft did not update older Xbox One consoles to play 4K discs? So I think it's not possible, maybe you need some processing chip as well not just a simple disc drive to play 4K Blu-ray

Because it isn't possible.

UHD BD wasn't even defined in 2013.

Albert Penello goes over this, starting with a different BD drive would be needed no only because of firmware but also hardware differences. They used the cheapest BD drive they could get that did what they needed. Upgradeability was not a requirement.

HVEC decoding is needed in hardware too. Original XBO doesn't have that.

 

[foxbeldin]

I don't believe it will happen, but if it does, we gotta crowdfund that Jeff Rigby statue.

That said, i don't take any technical thing penello says seriously.

 

[Adam M]

Because it isn't possible.

UHD BD wasn't even defined in 2013.

Albert Penello goes over this, starting with a different BD drive would be needed no only because of firmware but also hardware differences. They used the cheapest BD drive they could get that did what they needed. Upgradeability was not a requirement.

HVEC decoding is needed in hardware too. Original XBO doesn't have that.

This is what I said that it's not possible

 

[NeOak]

I don't believe it will happen, but if it does, we gotta crowdfund that Jeff Rigby statue.

That said, i don't take any technical thing penello says seriously.

Rigby's argument was about the 2013 consoles. Stop giving him credit for new BS.

Oh wait, you don't take Penello seriously? That explains.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The Digital Bits is a very respected website in the home media world. It's founder, Bill Hunt, recently included this take on PS4 Pro and why he believes it doesn't have 4K Blu-Ray playback and why that could eventually change.



http://digitalbits.com/columns/my-two-cents/090816_1630

My takeaway from that post is he feels that Sony desperately needed Blu-Ray to succeed in 2006 and they felt using PS3 as a Trojan horse would help to do so. In hindsight, was it the opposite effect that happened early on in the PS3 era? As for his thoughts on it possibly coming to PS4 via firmware, remember that PS3 and PS4 both had 3D Blu-Ray playback added via a firmware update and as he says, there is nothing hardware wise that would keep Sony from doing so if they decided to do so.

Nice summary by ethomaz:

My comment about the linked article... yeah, go with isolated Silos whoohoooo... and luckily this was all about One Sony eh Hirai? Yep...

 

[Panajev2001a]

No. As the quote in the original post says, they will release one in 2017. They currently have upscaling Blu-Ray players, but those will not play UHD discs.

This is Sony going backwards... people who want the premium set top box by Sony are not going to buy the hypothetical PS4 Pro with 4K Blu-Ray in it else they should also be worried about everyone else already eating their lunch with much cheaper HW... instead of helping another team in the same organisation we are going back to a much earlier and more isolated less cooperative Sony in quite a shocking turn of events. Hirai is achieving great profitability now, but this attitude by Sony now is planting bad seeds for the future no matter the short term and medium term effects... each silo is a lot weaker than the entire Sony combined and each subsidiary should work closely with the other subsidiaries.

 

[foxbeldin]

Rigby's argument was about the 2013 consoles. Stop giving him credit for new BS.

yeah, i mean.. go over my comment again? I don't believe it will happen.
Also, the ethomaz part in the OP states the OG PS4 could read UHD BRs since it's a 6x, which is exactly what rigby's been arguing about.

And again, i don't believe it to be true.

Oh wait, you don't take Penello seriously? That explains.

Oh wait you do?

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Yeah so Sony thinks I'm going to spend money on a PS4 Pro and a stand-alone UHD disk player when theres a competitor offering both in the same device. It's like we've time travelled back to 2006 and we're all taking out a second job again.

 

[AbandonedTrolley]

I've seen this speculation on a number of AV sites now but Andrew House shot that possibility down in the Guardian interview.


https://www.theguardian.com/technol...o-our-approach-isnt-reactive-this-time-around

Things are all very strange, like the fact that Sony could add HDR to the PS4, but Microsoft required a whole new hardware revision and can't put on the older models, what would be the reasoning for this? HDMI spec?

 

[NeOak]

yeah, i mean.. go over my comment again? I don't believe it will happen.
Also, the ethomaz part in the OP states the OG PS4 could read UHD BRs since it's a 6x, which is exactly what rigby's been arguing about.

And again, i don't believe it to be true.

I don't believe it will happen, but if it does, we gotta crowdfund that Jeff Rigby statue.

That said, i don't take any technical thing penello says seriously.

The bolded seems to imply you're thinking it may.

And 6x reading is not the only thing needed. You need a laser that can do the optical pickup for the third layer. This costs extra as stated in the XBO S cost analysis done by IHS. Which rigby ignored when pointed out it costs extra.

ethomaz's whole argument is like saying my CD-ROM drive can read GD-ROMs because it can do more than 12x speeds.

Things are all very strange, like the fact that Sony could add HDR to the PS4, but Microsoft required a whole new hardware revision and can't put on the older models, what would be the reasoning for this? HDMI spec?

HDMI chip.

 

[timmyp53]

If Jeff Rigby ends up being right... There will seriously be a cult.

 

[NeOak]

If Jeff Rigby ends up being right... There will seriously be a cult.

Ain't happening. And his argument is for the original 2013 PS4. Which isn't UHD capable at all.

 

[timmyp53]

Ain't happening. And his argument is for the original 2013 PS4. Which isn't UHD capable at all.

You really going to cheat Rigby out of a win on a technicality??

 

[Spectone]

I do not trust people on the internet. Not anymore anyway.

 

[foxbeldin]

The bolded seems to imply you're thinking it may.

Are you serious right now?

You bolded the "if" part (which obviously was humor, do you really think i want neogaf to crowdfund a statue?) and made it seem like i thought it was happening, but completely ignored the sentence right before, where i said and i quote, " I don't believe it will happen".

I'm done with you now, you're just out for an internet fight.

 

[NeOak]

You really going to cheat Rigby out of a win on a technicality??

lol, all his stuff is pure technicalities strung together lmao

Are you serious right now?

You bolded the "if" part (which obviously was humor, do you really think i want neogaf to crowdfund a statue?) and made it seem like i thought it was happening, but completely ignored the sentence right before, where i said and i quote, " I don't believe it will happen".

I'm done with you now, you're just out for an internet fight.

:'(

 

[Dreams-Visions]

this strikes me as regression and something I'd expect Microsoft to do as another company with separate, competing internal divisions.

 

[John Wick]

No. This has nothing to do with PS4/PS4 Slim. Only PS4 Pro. He always claimed that the PS4's from 2013 would be 4K Blu-Ray players.

Yes technically they could be but would an electronics company update your drive for free or would they rather you bought a new drive. We all know the answer to that. So yes Jeff Rigby might have been right all along. But companies aren't gonna update your existing drives when they can make you pay for a new one especially for a new format with lots of initial and start up costs. Think about it?

 

[c0de]

Jesus Christ. Hardware differences, how do they work?

jeff_rigby, that you?


Please remove that BS. ethomaz is talking out of his ass using jeff_rigby-like arguments.

It's funny when we talk how much money such a drive costs to measure the costs of the Xbox One S and then we have people here saying that you don't need a new drive at all as a new feature *for free* wouldn't add value to an existing system.
Edit: op is still ignoring the facts and includes the tales from my ass theory.

 

[FarFromAnyGame]

Unless House is lying, which I can't believe.

I bet he doesn't know the technicality of the UHD drive. He's just passing info.

 

[John Wick]

The bolded seems to imply you're thinking it may.

And 6x reading is not the only thing needed. You need a laser that can do the optical pickup for the third layer. This costs extra as stated in the XBO S cost analysis done by IHS. Which rigby ignored when pointed out it costs extra.

ethomaz's whole argument is like saying my CD-ROM drive can read GD-ROMs because it can do more than 12x speeds.


HDMI chip.

Maybe you don't understand how companies work. I think Jeff Rigby was onto something when he stated this. So technically he could be correct. But companies want profit. They'd rather you bought another drive than update your existing one. Making the firmware will have costs involved. If you check the specifications then Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray are very similar. Don't forget $$$$$ is the key.

 

[phil_t98]

don't know if this has been said here but I think sony has missed a trick here by not including the UHd blu ray not for movies but for games. as I have read the UHD Blu ray disc is 100gig capacity wise and games are getting bigger and bigger. with the Pro offering better games and potentially higher res textures they could of included more on a disc for just that. if that makes any sense

 

[Sidewinder]

don't know if this has been said here but I think sony has missed a trick here by not including the UHd blu ray not for movies but for games. as I have read the UHD Blu ray disc is 100gig capacity wise and games are getting bigger and bigger. with the Pro offering better games and potentially higher res textures they could of included more on a disc for just that. if that makes any sense

Yeah, thought the same when I heard Pro wouldn't read UHD BDs...but then again, if vanilla PS4s couldn't read these discs at all, it wouldn't work as they'd have to sell the game on two different discs.

Didn't follow the rising of UHD BD, but doesn't Sony get cash from every single sold disc? If so, wouldn't it be wise to try to push it as much as possible with PS4 Slim and Pro? Because if it isn't a standard in as many devices as possible, this thing will sell even less than BDs...
If Sony doesn't get royalties anymore, then of course I would understand why they don't give a shit.

 

[driver116]

Sony also told us rumble wasn't important to include in DS3 controllers when "reasons" forced hem to delay its inclusion.

I have no doubt the same situation with 4K Blurays and the PS4.

That was just a stupid statement for damage control for a bad design as the rumble interfered with the bluetooth connection. I think this is them being ahead of the curve in that physical video media is dying fast. And they're prepared to lose some market share over it, so there is that.

 

[shouamabane]

That was just a stupid statement for damage control for a bad design as the rumble interfered with the bluetooth connection. I think this is them being ahead of the curve in that physical video media is dying fast. And they're prepared to lose some market share over it, so there is that.

Sony was being sued at the time over force feedback. So they lied for legal/political reasons.

 

[Oni Jazar]

Your skepticism is warranted. From playstation.com:



It's in Japanese, but Masayasu Ito, who leads the PlayStation hardware team, said in an interview last year that the drive in the launch PS4s can't read Ultra HD Blu-ray media, citing issues with the third layer.

This echoes what Albert Penello said about the optical drive in the launch Xbox One:



...and what Stacey Spears (who was intimately involved in all aspects of video output on the Xbox One) also said:

Thanks for the research. Sounds like a different physical laser required to read triple layer Blu-rays.

 

[Matt]

Maybe you don't understand how companies work. I think Jeff Rigby was onto something when he stated this. So technically he could be correct. But companies want profit. They'd rather you bought another drive than update your existing one. Making the firmware will have costs involved. If you check the specifications then Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray are very similar. Don't forget $$$$$ is the key.

He wasn't.

There are technical diffrences, neither the PS4 or the Pro (or the original XBO) can be software updated to play UHD disks. Period.

This idea is like a virus that keeps being passed around.

 

[jimbobsmells]

So in summary it sounds like it comes down to two things:
-Does the PS4 Pro have a drive capable of reading that third layer?
-Does it also have the extra hardware needed (HEVC decoder)?

If these are both true then it's possible via firmware, correct? Guess we'll really only know after a tear down.

 

[Tumle]

If Sony is putting all its money on streaming.. I hope the services gets better..
I could live with out my bluray if they bumped up the sound quality and image quality.. Or at least have it as an option.. Mostly sound quality, is very bad in streams compared to hd sound from a blurary..
And if like to utualize my 120 Mb connection

 

[Flow-Walker]

Can anyone else confirm this?

No, it's not. UHD Blu-Ray uses higher capacity discs than normal Blu-Ray and the drives need a higher seek speed in order to read the third layer of data on the disc. Andrew House is right in that it can't be upgraded with firmware, it's a mechanical difference that requires different hardware.

 

[phil_t98]

Yeah, thought the same when I heard Pro wouldn't read UHD BDs...but then again, if vanilla PS4s couldn't read these discs at all, it wouldn't work as they'd have to sell the game on two different discs.

Didn't follow the rising of UHD BD, but doesn't Sony get cash from every single sold disc? If so, wouldn't it be wise to try to push it as much as possible with PS4 Slim and Pro? Because if it isn't a standard in as many devices as possible, this thing will sell even less than BDs...
If Sony doesn't get royalties anymore, then of course I would understand why they don't give a shit.

tbh I hadn't thought about the double disc situation but it would make sense if they want high res textures and stuff. wonder if there will be day one patches for ps4 pro games for this as I assume it all wont fit on a single disc for both sets of textures

 

[Omnistalgic]

Edit: I'll take matts word on it. Nvm

 

[Oni Jazar]

So in summary it sounds like it comes down to two things:
-Does the PS4 Pro have a drive capable of reading that third layer?
-Does it also have the extra hardware needed (HEVC decoder)?

If these are both true then it's possible via firmware, correct? Guess we'll really only know after a tear down.

Really would be a stretch if the Pro had those things. I don't think Sony is holding the Pro back to sell UHD players. The easiest explanation is that they were cutting costs everywhere so they could to reach the $399 price point. Personally I'd rather a real premium system for a premium price but there it is...

 

[Samurai G0SU]

Let's see....

Sony releases their New 4k blu-ray player so that division can sell these things ...
Sony waits until the 4k blu-ray player releases and then will enable it in every ps4 pro ....

doesn't make any type of sense at all

not thread worth at all lol. wtf

 

[wesleyshark]

Let's see....

Sony releases their New 4k blu-ray player so that division can sell these things ...
Sony waits until the 4k blu-ray player releases and then will enable it in every ps4 pro ....

doesn't make any type of sense at all

not thread worth at all lol. wtf

Yeah this whole argument that Sony will later update the PS4P to support UHD via a firmware update is absolutely Tales From My Ass.

For whatever reason they decided to not include a 4k player in their 4k console. Maybe they'll release one next year with a new disc reader lol.

 

[Darklor01]

Yeah this whole argument that Sony will later update the PS4P to support UHD via a firmware update is absolutely Tales From My Ass.

For whatever reason they decided to not include a 4k player in their 4k console. Maybe they'll release one next year with a new disc reader lol.

PS4 ProPlayer?

 

[wesleyshark]

PS4 ProPlayer?

PS4PP rolls right off the tongue

 

[Magwik]

That seems so unlikely. The trend is pointing to digital and streaming when it comes to 4K content. Physical media is on its way out.

Even though the sales of 4K Blu-ray say otherwise?

 

[entremet]

Well.. Wii DVD playback didn't come until homebrew got on the device.

That's because Nintendo was too cheap to pay the DVD license. It was always DVD capable in theory.

 

[ethomaz]

No, it's not. UHD Blu-Ray uses higher capacity discs than normal Blu-Ray and the drives need a higher seek speed in order to read the third layer of data on the disc. Andrew House is right in that it can't be upgraded with firmware, it's a mechanical difference that requires different hardware.

PS4 Blu-ray drive can read BDXL with third or even more layers... there is not technical wall in this case. There is some tests with burnable BDXL media that works on PS4... so indeed it reads this third layer.

What is happening is more a not hardware issue but more like licenses fee, software or hardware requirements outside the BD driver... or maybe Sony own decision.