WeAreStarStuff
Member
I don't know what Sony is thinking here. Unless they price their UHD player cheap, there is no reason for people to not just pick up a Xbox One S as their UHD player.
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The Digital Bits on PS4 Pro and 4K Blu-Ray
- Thread starter EdReedFan20
- Start date
wesleyshark
Banned
It'll most likely be in the $300-400 range.
Do You have the numbers ?
marlowesghost
Member
Tales from your ass thread nine. Ito, Panello, and House have all said the drive can't support it. But hey, they are probably wrong. Right?!?! Because $$$$$$$. Right?!!?
There is something not exactly right in the OP. A standard blu-ray drive is absolutely not guaranteed to be able to read a UHD blu-ray correctly even after a firmware update, it's not just a matter of bitrate/angular velocity. A regular blu-ray is 2 layers, 25 GB each. UHD are 3 layers, 33 GB each for the highest 100 GB capacity of the format. While the laser wavelength is the same, the drive has to be able to read the shorter "pits" in the disc (normally this is the part that a firmware update can do), and also have the optics able to focus on the third layer (no amount of firmware update will help with that if it's not here in the first place).
It would be surprising for the PS4 Pro drive not to be able to do that since it's very recent and it doesn't add much to the overall costs, but it's absolutely not guaranteed.
The thing that blows my mind here is that Sony (another division, but still Sony) is the highest stakeholder of the blu-ray format. They basically get money for each movie sold using this format. Why they wouldn't push it with their own hardware is beyond me.
It would be surprising for the PS4 Pro drive not to be able to do that since it's very recent and it doesn't add much to the overall costs, but it's absolutely not guaranteed.
The thing that blows my mind here is that Sony (another division, but still Sony) is the highest stakeholder of the blu-ray format. They basically get money for each movie sold using this format. Why they wouldn't push it with their own hardware is beyond me.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
The reality is that the market for movies on disc is not what it was back when PS3 was being launched. Year-in, year-out that market segment declines while the competitive streaming segment improves.
Its not a trend thats likely to be reversed anytime soon, which is important as hardware decisions like this are multi-year "bets".
Its not a trend thats likely to be reversed anytime soon, which is important as hardware decisions like this are multi-year "bets".
wesleyshark
Banned
I think Microsoft surprised everyone with that inclusion
Yeah, that was a helluva held secret and pretty damn brilliant on MS part.
Rellik
Member
It really isn't going to make much of a difference outside the US and UK, and I'm not sure it's even going to matter in those 2.
WeAreStarStuff
Member
This is what I assume; so why would I buy that when I can get a game console that also plays UHD for cheaper?
Thing is, there is no market and Sony most probably were challenged enough to get good profit on PRO with specs they wanted. Right or wrong it was a conscious decision and not that stupid as you might think reading this thread and others devoted to the same topic.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
What benefits are coming with a 4k player which you don't have on the XB1 S?
Not a lot cheaper if at all, and without noise, with dedicated remote control etc.
It doesn't make a lot of sense to gamers, but yeah, people are buying dedicated electronics devices to do what they are intended to. Otherwise it would just be consoles and this is not the case, right ?
Because the money right now per movie is minimal compared to the costs it would be to include the drive i'm assuming. People say the drive only costs X amount but we have no idea what sourcing sony would use as compared to ms. Also again as so many people have said the market penetration is extremely low and even with projections in the near term (next 3 years) you could easily see that its probably worth more to them to invest in streaming infrastructure than physical.
Like even if theoretically the drive costs them 15 dollars more. x million consoles. I would say that 15 million could go towards better streaming infrastructure investments for UHD more than anything else.
Audio formats it doesnt support DTS X or dolby atmos Dedicated Players normally have slightly better picture quality(better scaling etc) or speed advantages to loading blu rays etc.
wesleyshark
Banned
Not many, unless you care about specific technical specs with audio and video. At this point, buying a One S is such a higher value than a standard uhd player.
AngelOFDeath
Member
What if.... the Pro's BD drive is slightly different than the OG or Sim one?
Until the teardown, it may be possible?
Until the teardown, it may be possible?
The extremely high costs for infrastructure upgrade to be able to do UHD streaming with proper bitrates isn't on Sony's side, it's on the end-user side where many many many people are still on DSL lines and/or have a monthly quota.
This is all about their gross margin, which is of course something I can understand, but coming from a company that pushed really really hard with DVD and then Blu-ray in their previous consoles, it's still a huge surprise for them not to do it again with this, especially when their main competitor jumped right in.
I can only imagine how much faster disc Interfaces are.
My Samsung bdp is so slow with almost everything in the inference, it feels like it's running on a calculator.
Whoever thought it would be a good idea to use Java for this should burn in hell.
Quite a few if You care about the quality(picture, audio, comfort) and UHD is all about that I believe
yeah thats what we would have to rate it on, until teardown we have no idea even if it says its a 6x bluray drive.
Specs were closed a year ago probably, so yeah its a surprise, nobody with sane mind would not expect MS to include UHD.
Plus it's all about maximising the return on investment in BOM. 15$ or whatever it is is probably 25% of GPU cost.
You cant really just rely on the past every time though. Same people thought that DVD rentals etc would still trump netflix back then and look what happened to the blockbusters of the world. Honestly I'm okay with then going this route it makes sense in the long run and especially since the FCC changed what constitutes broadband that may also accelerate the number of people who have it. Also the monthly quotas constantly are getting challenged as well to where companies bumped theirs way up as a result. Yes i still see it as an issue for certain people. But the majority of populations live in or around cities who normally have access to higher end broadband options. You kind of are arguing for a smaller amount of people.
Also only need 25Mbps to stream 4k of course you would need more for enhanced audio etc , but how many people really have crazy HT setups just like we argue about the PQ difference and such.
I understand the arguments but if we put up the sales numbers for streaming, vs dvd vs blu ray with the amount of people who do have access to adequate broadband speeds it makes total sense to go that route until 4kbluray prices drop. which by then would probally be when their next console comes out.
thelastcrusader
Banned
Until they release 4k 3d blu rays I'm not buying any 4k blu rays anyways so I give zero shits. I'll get a pro.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
Excuses excuses.
Sony put a BluRay in a Ps3 when there was no market. Heck l bought the Ps3 for BluRay and bonus was gaming.
GuyKazama
Member
None of them are Mark Cerny. Someone needs to corner him and get him to explain why a firmware update isn't possible.
people make this argument but there are way different circumstances going on then and now. There is no format war this go around.
In a time where TV and Film streaming where pin drops in the ocean compared to physical media sales.
25 mbits (which I would argue is not enough even with HEVC) is way more than the average internet connection speed in about any country in the world (according to Akamai, and they would know). At 25 mbits I don't think you reach even 10% of the households in the US.
https://www.fcc.gov/reports-researc...ogress-reports/2015-broadband-progress-report
heres a broadband report from 2015.
8 Percent of Urban Areas dont have access, and about 17% of all americans dont have access.
The number jumps to half when it comes to rural areas. But for most Americans outside of that they mostly have access. Not sure how it is for europe however.
EdReedFan20
Member
For the people who disagree with Bill's post, here is his twitter if you want to (politely!!!!) correct him, so he can do another follow-up (if he agrees with your take): https://twitter.com/BillHuntBits/with_replies and https://twitter.com/thedigitalbits/with_replies Do not spam the man. If he disagrees and provides more evidence of his own and you are not swayed, politely agree to disagree and move on.
This. Just about all of my friends bought the PS3 because it was the best player on the market at the time.
Right, but for 4K a ton of people don't have the data caps or the high end streaming to play 4K.
Suzushiiro
Banned
I just figured that unlike DVD (which was clearly the future of video in 2000) and blu-ray (which was still technically in the format war at the time of PS3's launch but also still most likely the future of video,) it's currently a toss-up on whether or not 4k BD will go anywhere before streaming's swallowing of physical media is complete, so the value of including it in a game console isn't as clear.
Don't get me wrong, there are still going to be people who want physical 4K movies for a long time to come, so they're not going away entirely for a while. But it's going to be significantly smaller than the population that wanted DVDs or 1080p BDs.
Don't get me wrong, there are still going to be people who want physical 4K movies for a long time to come, so they're not going away entirely for a while. But it's going to be significantly smaller than the population that wanted DVDs or 1080p BDs.
Wouldn't that be a way for Sony to push the medium? I mean they are releasing stand alones.
marlowesghost
Member
Let me get this right. Masayasu Ito, a mechanical engineer and executive vice president of hardware engineering and operations, who spent six years as the Senior Vice President of Hardware engineering for SCE, is not a credible source on the fact the drive is not capable of reading 4k blu ray?
VincentMatts
Member
Honestly, i didnt even know xbox one s had it until the pro news came out saying it didnt.
yeah it was kinda the point of putting it in a playstation, to get that market started. I understand why they possibly cut it (costs) but still, how much can it cost sony to put a sony UHD player in a sony console. Like, really. Fucking xbox one has it. I think its a bad move and im positive youll see a PS4 pro revision with one eventually.
Barkley's Justice
Member
If Sony Interactive wanted it in there, they would have put it in there.
JonathanPower
Member
No. They will fight till the end.
JonathanPower
Member
That, and also stand alone blu ray players were overpriced in comparison to a PS3. .
NeOak
Member
Or maybe I'm an Electrical Engineer and know it isn't possible based on how embedded systems are designed. As in, cheapest components used with no upgradeability in mind because that costs extra, especially for a standard that wasn't close to be finished at the time the PS4 design was completed.
Source on those tests?
JonathanPower
Member
There will always be enthusiasts who will stick to physical media due to the much higher video quality, e.g., higher video bit-rate and lower compression audio. Streaming is great for having access to a great collection of titles, but it will never completely replace physical media.
NeOak
Member
They don't believe Penello, who was one of the people that saw engineers report the need for extra components for UHD support and likely had to give approval for it.
People think that old shit is magically upgradeable because they can update their phones, lmao.
VincentMatts
Member
So wait, my iphone 6 can do 4k via a patch?? Ahhhhh yeah.
wesleyshark
Banned
Letmeseethereceipts.gif
UHD disc support isn't coming to the OG, Slim, or the Pro, as they currently are. Maybe next year with a console revision of the Pro's hardware, but other than that... Not happening.
It wasn't just that. The Wii would have failed to meet the standards for getting a DVD license for a few reasons (no optical port, etc.)
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
Firmware updates turned PS3 Bluray player into Bluray Profile 1.1 and the Bluray Profile 2.0. Such profiles required the acquisition of new Bluray Players each time. Then we got a much bigger update to read 3D Blurays that of course require new Bluray players if you wanted a standalone one.
For this gen. I can neither confirm nor deny if it is possible to get UHD Bluray player via firmware. I know it won't be sorcery since it is different from last gen with the PS3 because UHD Bluray player need a dedicated lense and hardware to read multiple layer UHD Blurays.
Do we have any infos if the Bluray Player in the PS4 Pro is at least better than the one in the PS4?
For this gen. I can neither confirm nor deny if it is possible to get UHD Bluray player via firmware. I know it won't be sorcery since it is different from last gen with the PS3 because UHD Bluray player need a dedicated lense and hardware to read multiple layer UHD Blurays.
Do we have any infos if the Bluray Player in the PS4 Pro is at least better than the one in the PS4?