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The JRPG Blue Reflection Has Creepier than Average DLC: Underage Girls in Swimsuits

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Aizo

Banned
To be honest your concerns are pretty silly considering its like you have never been to the beach before and noticed that people of all ages / genders do indeed wear swimsuits.
Aizo said:
Before anyone defends it by saying "It doesn't have to be sexual. They're just swimsuits," please scroll down on the official Gust page for the DLC to see what kind of poses they attempt to sell their costume DLC with: here.
How can you say this when their marketing for their costume DLC includes images like these?
dlc_01_img12.jpg
dlc_01_img59.jpg
dlc_01_img58.jpg
Is there anything inherently wrong about high school girls being shown in swimsuits? Of course not. That's seen in normal life around the world. Is there something wrong with selling costumes to a (let's not even pretend—you have to even confirm your age of birth to view the trailer on PSN) largely older male audience that depict young girls on swimsuit costumes? I think yes. Is it supposed to be completely innocent and devoid of sexual depictions of these characters? I think no.

I did address what you mention about the industry, which I think is honestly related, in the OP with a couple linked articles. The argument comes down to "Do you feel that the sexualization of fictional minors contributes to problems with real sexual crimes with underage girls?" That's the debatable part, but I believe there is no doubt of what they are selling here with this costume DLC.
 
No real character designs. Just blushy moeblob anime in swimsuits. Somehow u would think people would eventually get sick of these ultra low budget, janky ass games, but these companies are still thriving lmao.

Actually, I believe the developer of this game folded because this game bombed. The publisher is doing fine, though.
 

Aizo

Banned
That's like saying the cause of violent crimes is due to violent video games.
I didn't say this, though. This is a straw man argument.
Do you feel that rape culture is a real thing? It's about how we depict women, and in this case, girls.
 
Some of the stuff from that comes from Japan amazes me. There's this anime I watched called oniai and it has like this 8 or so year old girl who is arranged to be married to the main character. Not only is there a weird sexualization to her character throughout the standard anime, there are bonus mini episodes you can find that show her naked with her tits out. I was shocked at the time as I didn't realize that was even legal to show.
 

2+2=5

The Amiga Brotherhood
Before anyone defends it by saying "It doesn't have to be sexual. They're just swimsuits," please scroll down on the official Gust page for the DLC to see what kind of poses they attempt to sell their costume DLC with: here.
How can you say this when their marketing for their costume DLC includes images like these?

Is there anything inherently wrong about high school girls being shown in swimsuits? Of course not. That's seen in normal life around the world. Is there something wrong with selling costumes to a (let's not even pretend—you have to even confirm your age of birth to view the trailer on PSN) largely older male audience that depict young girls on swimsuit costumes? I think yes. Is it supposed to be completely innocent and devoid of sexual depictions of these characters? I think no.

I did address what you mention about the industry, which I think is honestly related, in the OP with a couple linked articles. The argument comes down to "Do you feel that the sexualization of fictional minors contributes to problems with real sexual crimes with underage girls?" That's the debatable part, but I believe there is no doubt of what they are selling here with this costume DLC.
HAve you ever heard of Dead or Alive Extreme games? They are fan service the game, you look and photograph DOA girls in swimsuit in a beach, Kasumi, DOA's main character, was underage in 1 & 2, in 3 there's Marie Rose that's officially 18 years old but looks like 14, don't make me post screens of certain costumes.
 
It's an interesting one since even Tales games which have a predominantly female audience in Japan still feature this kind of DLC with young girls in swimsuits. I can only presume it's a massive selling point to a certain small segment of the audience who'll leap on it at any given opportunity. Personally I'm glad to see the transition from often including it in the base game to isolating it as DLC.

In terms of the ethical position it's probably worth considering how anime girls are presented in those sort of titillation games or shows in general. The same copy paste body type (slim, average height, large bust) but a different face, hairstyle and hair colour to differentiate them and usually checkbox personalities which provide one of each common type (shy, academic, tsundere, sporty etc). Do they actually represent the complexities or nuances of people at all, let alone children? Are they even supposed to? They're more like robots and judging from waifu culture in Japan a lot of that desire never even leaves the 2D space.
 
I'm not excusing this because it is in bad taste in my opinion, but isn't the age of consent in Japan much lower than ours? At least it doesn't seem to be coming west at all.

Blue Reflection is coming to the West in September. Pretty much all games published by Koei Tecmo, who owns Gust, get released in the US and Europe. I'm not sure if they'll release all the DLC here, but I expect they will.
 

Aizo

Banned
The members bringing up other games as if they make it acceptable... I think those are creepy and wrong, too. I guess what makes this one stick out as weird to me is the high school setting. I recognize that the game has lots of fantasy elements, but you're looking at these girls, and you're completely aware that yes, without any bullshit excuse (1000 year old dragon, etc.), these are high school girls. They aren't ninja students with gargantuan breasts. They aren't amazing fighters that jump through the air with crazy martial arts prowess. They're high school girls for at least a significant portion of this game.

I also suppose I was bothered more than usual by this game because I thought it looked like the kinda game I could've bought for my friend in Japan, but I think she would be really creeped out now that I learn more about it.
 
Actually, I believe the developer of this game folded because this game bombed. The publisher is doing fine, though.

Blue Reflection didn't bomb, and Gust is doing just fine. They are probably mostly known for there Atelier games.

Blue Refelction is getting a NA and EU release on PS4 and PC in September. Get them pre-orders in :p
 

RalchAC

Member
It's not that strange.

There is a shit ton of ecchi anime that's set in highschool. Where you see tits, and asses, and the character accidentally falls between a member of his soon-to-be harem breasts.

I mean, yeah, it's weird. But for most people that's been into anime for long enough, the default choice will be to roll your eyes and keep browsing for a different series. But seeing people all that outraged when they see something relatively tame like this when there has been stuff like To Love Ru Darkness running in a shonen manga magazine that targets a teenager audience is weird.
 
Young girls in swimsuits is nothing out of the ordinary, but I do find some of the poses in the promotional pics to be.....questionable.

If you take that away I don't really see anything wrong with it? But I have to admit I have not played the game so I don't know how the girls are portrayed in there.

Oh and thanks for linking the articles, very informative.
 
It's not that strange.

There is a shit ton of ecchi anime that's set in highschool. Where you see tits, and asses, and the character accidentally falls between a member of his soon-to-be harem breasts.

I mean, yeah, it's weird. But for most people that's been into anime for long enough, the default choice will be to roll your eyes and keep browsing for a different series. But seeing people all that outraged when they see something relatively tame like this when there has been stuff like To Love Ru Darkness running in a shonen manga magazine that targets a teenager audience is weird.
Do you think the general public doesn't think all anime is as fucking weird and creepy as the stuff you're describing? I have some bad news for you if so...

You can call this tame all you want. But the reality is most people will be revolted by this stuff.
 
The sexualisation of the girls in the game really sours my interest, because otherwise it looks like gorgeous rpg with a wonderful ost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N7vITmlXOU - See 1:41-1:43 showing segments of skeevy camera angles and even a suggestive shower shot. Of underage highschool girls. A mess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXXw265Cdn8 - 2:32 onwards of this trailer shows wet see through clothing where the player can clearly see the girls' undergarments. I don't have to explain how problematic this is in this context.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkOvlU3vyvw - 0:25-0:29 and 0:39 onwards... girl bye.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a-b54P7zBU - I just... I don't understand why the developers felt the need to give us SHOWER SEGMENTS? WHAT THE HELL?

I'd be more than happy if they censored these scenes for the localised release.
 

Izuna

Banned
But

Tecmo Koei already did this

And almost every other anime game... It's average creepy

Age of consent is 13 in Japan. Its a vastly different culture from the West. I know you find it distasteful, but that's how the show goes there. Sure, there are localised laws detailing "corruption of minors" that only allows minor-on-minor action, to prevent adults firing into kids, but yeah, it can't stop sexualisation like this.

At least it isn't for sale on UK/US/EU etc PSN, where it'd definitely be an issue.

It's really not and what the fuck is wrong with you....
 

13ruce

Banned
I don't see the appeal in under age lookin girls mature looking ones are far superior imo. Sure there are really mature/young adult/end/late teenage years girls/males that look young etc but this is just over the top and they probably are underage in the games too. Especially seeing a whole freaking group of em in that pic you can't tell me those are all 17-18+ lol.

It's sad tbh.
 

Aizo

Banned
But seeing people all that outraged when they see something relatively tame like this when there has been stuff like To Love Ru Darkness running in a shonen manga magazine that targets a teenager audience is weird.
Is that weird that people would be upset? Isn't it much more likely that said people just aren't aware of the most creepy shit and haven't been desensitized?

What I am aware of is Japan's problem with statutory rape, and it's hard not to draw conclusions from this kind of content, which comes largely from the same country where they have to pass laws this year in attempt to decrease underage prostitution that's initiated in places as innocuous as cafes, that there is a problem with how the youth is depicted.
 

MUnited83

For you.
HAve you ever heard of Dead or Alive Extreme games? They are fan service the game, you look and photograph DOA girls in swimsuit in a beach, Kasumi, DOA's main character, was underage in 1 & 2, in 3 there's Marie Rose that's officially 18 years old but looks like 14, don't make me post screens of certain costumes.
Oh god what have you done you just summoned the " I totally know a girl in real life that isn't underage and totally looks like Marie Rose" crowd. You fool!
 

Ferr986

Member
About the "bikinis are used daily by everione , nothing sexual about it" argument..

IMO, That some clothes are used daily doesn't mean they can be played with sexualization, cathering some fetishes.

I mean, sailor school outfits and gym clothers are standard used daily yet some people get off with girls wearing them (especially when we are talking about younger girls). Sometimes is not about the type of outfit but how do you use it (already happens in bikini if you compare regular usage and promo "hot girls in bikini" pics)

Those promo pics are a big hint on the intention about this DLC.
 

PSFan

Member
Age of consent is 13 in Japan. Its a vastly different culture from the West. I know you find it distasteful, but that's how the show goes there. Sure, there are localised laws detailing "corruption of minors" that only allows minor-on-minor action, to prevent adults firing into kids, but yeah, it can't stop sexualisation like this.

At least it isn't for sale on UK/US/EU etc PSN, where it'd definitely be an issue.

Well, that's because the game isn't out in those regions yet. It comes out at the end of September.
 

Aizo

Banned
It's pretty lame

But I'm not against companies putting this kind of content in their games. Like, whatever, it's fake 3D girls. If the developers want to cater to a niche crowd with $20 DLC, then let them.
 

mao2

Member
I didn't say this, though. This is a straw man argument.
Do you feel that rape culture is a real thing? It's about how we depict women, and in this case, girls.
My point is that you're associating this game with the sexualization of underage girls. Yes, the stuff about child prostitution and sexual assault that you posted are huge issues, but so are violent crimes. Should disgusting, gory games such as Mortal Kombat be banned then? Besides, this is tame compared to what you can get on comics aimed at teenagers in Japan.
 

Joey Ravn

Banned
Wonder what young people in real life wear to the beach. I am guessing pyjamas.

Are you lowkey trying to pass this as "normal"?

My point is that you're associating this game with the sexualization of underage girls. Yes, the stuff about child prostitution and sexual assault that you posted are huge issues, but so are violent crimes. Should disgusting, gory games such as Mortal Kombat be banned then? Besides, this is tame compared to what you can get on comics aimed at teenagers in Japan.

Relative Privation, aka "not as bad as" fallacy.
 

zelas

Member
This game doesnt stand alone in this regard actually. There's a bunch of garbage like this coming from the usual suspects.

Wonder what young people in real life wear to the beach. I am guessing pyjamas.
Because there's nothing sexual about a zoomed in camera shot of a little girl's bent over ass.
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Before anyone defends it by saying "It doesn't have to be sexual. They're just swimsuits," please scroll down on the official Gust page for the DLC to see what kind of poses they attempt to sell their costume DLC with: here.
How can you say this when their marketing for their costume DLC includes images like these?

Is there anything inherently wrong about high school girls being shown in swimsuits? Of course not. That's seen in normal life around the world. Is there something wrong with selling costumes to a (let's not even pretend—you have to even confirm your age of birth to view the trailer on PSN) largely older male audience that depict young girls on swimsuit costumes? I think yes. Is it supposed to be completely innocent and devoid of sexual depictions of these characters? I think no.

I did address what you mention about the industry, which I think is honestly related, in the OP with a couple linked articles. The argument comes down to "Do you feel that the sexualization of fictional minors contributes to problems with real sexual crimes with underage girls?" That's the debatable part, but I believe there is no doubt of what they are selling here with this costume DLC.

Once again reality is going to pop in its ugly head and say that swimsuits and posing go hand in hand. Its a common trope whenever swimsuits are involved. Now if one gets aroused or not thats a whole different story which has to do with the problem said individual has.

Honestly its not too had to go digging up "shock value" articles on anything if you search for it then go "the sky is falling" while acting shocked. Its no different for any country. Hell for example with the way Kotaku used to write about Japan you would think the country is only filled with Otaku Waifu Full Body Pillows, Panty Vending Machines and Pocky. Oh and Arcades.

I could dig up shit that would make you not want to leave your apartment honestly in terms of crime news and other such. Would make you think the country is filled with psychopathic murders waiting to skin you alive with whatever sharp object they could get their hands on.

Its like how the news makes the US seem like the wild west when it is hardly that. I never once been shot at or had to shoot someone else in self defense. Did have to go sit in with the SWAT guys during a hostage situation due to them using a location as the staging area, but that was just by chance and normally would have had nothing to do with myself otherwise.

For the whole sexualization of minors things whats hilarious is Ive seen more articles come out lately as in this year 2017, from the US about teachers having "inappropriate relations" with their students. Then again its not as if Im actively looking for the articles as it just pops up in the news feeds since the media doesnt have anything else better to report on outside of Trump, Russia or Shootings.

Am sure the only reason the govt is pretending to give a shit about any of this stuff is due to the Olympics coming up and they will be under an even larger microscope than the internet boom provided. Which is a good thing as the country does have various issues which need to be dealt with. Only problem is those in charge are generally not the sharpest tools in the shed and make the most odd type of decisions when attempting to patch work fix something in this country. If it wasnt for that they would have been perfectly happy sitting around doing absolutely nothing besides roll around on our tax money. (most likely naked and covered in caviar)

As others mentioned what you are trying to show here is far more tame than what can be bought on a normal basis such as the example given which is mangas. Even something like Shokugeki no Soma a manga about cooking / food has clothes bursting off both male and female "highschool students" and more so in "sexual" poses for females.

Is it right? Honestly I dont give a shit since it doesnt bother me. Does it bother other people sure does. As know a few folks who do not want to read the manga due to that which is fine too, but at the same time they dont go freaking out acting like the sky is falling and society in whole is doomed due to it and understand that its obviously something which is not marketed towards them as a reader.

Though this being a forum its part of the experience to voice ones opinion on such matters, but at the same time you are going to have to expect pushback if you do not have a strong case presented. As mentioned in previous post. But the discussion is what matters with the multiple viewpoints and what can be taken away from said discussion.

For my experience within the JP HS system for about 3 months back in 99 we had more problems with teachers dishing out physical punishment than actual incidents of sexual advances towards students. There was a case 2 years prior and when it was found out that teacher was shitcanned instantly and public apology sent out ASAP. Though with that part of the reason for the quick response is due to the prestige of the school also. So mileage may vary depending on the school. As those the first scenario in P5 that is also a pretty realistic one as have heard similar stories from other JP teachers in country that generally despise that sort scandals and which is why they transfer to new districts and such.

A large other part of the whole problem with incidents vs reports is how useless the law / justice system is in Japan along with other cultural issues that also tie into that. Internet outrage and the piss poor protesting attempts that usually take place in front of the metroP govt office are not exactly going to change things with that.
 
My point is that you're associating this game with the sexualization of underage girls. Yes, the stuff about child prostitution and sexual assault that you posted are huge issues, but so are violent crimes. Should disgusting, gory games such as Mortal Kombat be banned then? Besides, this is tame compared to what you can get on comics aimed at teenagers in Japan.

Whether the consumption of certain kinds of media leads to acts of sexual assault on real-life minors can be argued, but there's no arguing that this game (and all Gust games since at least around the PS3 era) associates itself with the sexualization of underage girls.
 

mao2

Member
Relative Privation, aka "not as bad as" fallacy.
I'm comparing because violent/crime games never seem to be issue on NeoGAF, in fact, I'm pretty sure many will readily defend them from getting banned or censored. So how is that different from this one?
 

DemWalls

Member
The members bringing up other games as if they make it acceptable... I think those are creepy and wrong, too. I guess what makes this one stick out as weird to me is the high school setting. I recognize that the game has lots of fantasy elements, but you're looking at these girls, and you're completely aware that yes, without any bullshit excuse (1000 year old dragon, etc.), these are high school girls. They aren't ninja students with gargantuan breasts. They aren't amazing fighters that jump through the air with crazy martial arts prowess. They're high school girls for at least a significant portion of this game.

I also suppose I was bothered more than usual by this game because I thought it looked like the kinda game I could've bought for my friend in Japan, but I think she would be really creeped out now that I learn more about it.

Even though I'm personally not that bothered, I can kinda see your point now. I'd add this post to the OP.
 

mindatlarge

Member
I long for the days of spiky haired dudes being the JRPG norm. The "fan service" and questionable character direction of a lot of modern JRPGs doesn't appeal to me at all.
 
Real life girls in swimsuits = Normal
Buying swimsuits to dress up underage girls in a videogame = Not fucking normal

It's also normal to be naked while showering, would you guys make the same "it's OK" argument if a game showed underage girls showering?

Yo too soon😂😂🤣

What is this about Amir0x...? *googles*
misfits.gif
 

Rncewind

Member
Is that weird that people would be upset? Isn't it much more likely that said people just aren't aware of the most creepy shit and haven't been desensitized?

What I am aware of is Japan's problem with statutory rape, and it's hard not to draw conclusions from this kind of content, which comes largely from the same country where they have to pass laws this year in attempt to decrease underage prostitution that's initiated in places as innocuous as cafes, that there is a problem with how the youth is depicted.

What you are experiencing is replys from a lot of people who have only a fantasy vision of japan/asia caused by pop culture. As you pointed out japan has a huge problem with such things but not many are in japan politics or read the news their like i am. However this is also kinda of a strawman because there is also a shit town of news/problem in japan with the economy, taxes, crime and so on. Japan has one of the most crusome death tolls in the world and one of the highest suicide rates. Drawing a conclusion her is not really logical. Underage sexual acts are not something its exclusivly to japan in a widespread manner, there a bunch of countries with that problem without media involvment or/and being a cultural thing.

In the recent years this had some bizzare effects on entertainment market tho with companys recognizing the outside of japan hardcore otaku (whichg is not the correct term i think but i gonna go with it for simplicity sake) market, bringing it out in the west, which i find funny.

As in term of creepy, I am nowhere convinced that this kind of media leads to a direct correlation with reallife. However as others pointed out this dont give anyone a free pass on banking as such tropes to sell their stuff and pandering.
 
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