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TRUTHFACT: MS having eSRAM yield problems on Xbox One
- Thread starter chubigans
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I didn't say the iPhone's success was predicated on its multifunctionality. It's clear that the iPhones success was to do with it's simply being in a league of its own compared with other devices available at the time.
But that has nothing to do with the fact that iPhone was clearly conceived and sold as an all-in-one device. And the fact that it is both an all-in-one device and best-in-class had made me hope that the Xbone could be the same thing. It's clear, however, that this thing is more Nokia N91 than iPhone.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Yeah I can vouch for that
But they did have time to have their UE3 support the Wii U!
I'm sure the Wii U had the lowest position on their priority check list, but you can't say the technical limitations and exotics of the Wii U had absolutely nothing to do with it.
phosphor112
Banned
DDR5 bruh.
KingItachi
Member
I agree, especially because the Kinect 1 for the 360 brought nothing to the table that (a) changed/improved gaming as a whole substantially or (b) could not be done with far simpler hardware (e.g. voice commands for stuff like control of squad members).
It was obvious to anyone that had 1st gen iPod Touch in hand that this with phone function would go megaton in stores.
phosphor112
Banned
Lol... remember how people were debating on whether it was 33% weaker or 50% weaker?
Now we can say 50%.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
I really hope this isn't true. I know in reality that a small downclock won't make a huge difference in terms of graphics but it will widen the performance gap between Xbox One and PS4. Sooner or later you will have multi platform games where the lead will be on PS4 and they will be forced to gimp it down to Xbox One.
That will be a terrible day.
That will be a terrible day.
So the real question is MS can't afford this, not in a cost perspective - but in PR, being like W8 and they can't have another RROD issue.
So wouldn't this be he best time to start figularitvely "from scratch" with this system. It allows the tool pipelines to be in place for developers, allow them to at least attempt to have a message about indies and show a little "hey guys we messed up" even if your trying to spin it back to MS message.
After all it isn't where you start it is where you end up.
So wouldn't this be he best time to start figularitvely "from scratch" with this system. It allows the tool pipelines to be in place for developers, allow them to at least attempt to have a message about indies and show a little "hey guys we messed up" even if your trying to spin it back to MS message.
After all it isn't where you start it is where you end up.
Nikodemos
Member
It was Microsoft with the Xbox360 who first employed a unified memory architecture. The PS3 had two separate 256 MB pools.
Oh shit.
no. any time processor yields are bad there are tricks that can be done to "improve" them. the clock speed lowering (or voltage lowering, or disabling cores, etc) are all ways of doing that.
the problem here is that because it's the APU, any decision they make is effectively going to end up impacting the entire lifecycle of the system. Normally a manufacturer will simply be able to take those imperfect yields and use them in lesser spec devices.. Stick a GPU with 1 or 2 cores disabled in a slower video card model. If this is true, MS is going to have to make a gameday decision and then stick with it for the next 5-8 years.
objectively I disagree.. More than likely in no case will the XBONE games look "unplayably" bad. Worst case they may employ simpler AA and render at a lower res... but the mainstream who isn't F5'ing Digital Foundry will be fine. And of course the system will still have its exclusives.
Honestly this doesn't change anything.. Anyone who was deciding on consoles based heavily on performance likely already decided on PS4. Anyone who decided on XBONE did so more than likely having nothing to do with performance, and this really won't change any of that.
Not an XBONE fan... but I really don't see this as being any sort of (further) game changer.
I get pretty much a WiiU +
MS said they did not have bet on purpose on more graphics performance(disappointing thing for me) but there is a difference between not point to the top and present a console old gen.At E3 we will know the truth
Graphics Horse
Member
:lol
hooijdonk17
Member
And a unified memory pool is unconventional when you consider the architecures (x86 PCs) they are based on.
That could only work if the hardware would be sold as part of a subscription model where ithe cost of the actual unit is hidden in the monthly fees. Otherwise, people would simply not bother buying a new box for their living room every two years. In contrast to tablets and smartphones, home entertainment has far less "livestyle" prestige that warrants regular updates so you can show your latest hot shit.
Impeccable
Member
Haha yeah, you'll be adding A LOT more.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
But the N91 was a damn good phone?
You probably mean one of those HTC windows phones....ironic really.
What's wrong with Cell? Some developers that worked on SPU code are less than thrilled with its replacement. I guess for everyone else though, x86 was a prudent move.
Back on-topic, I doubt MS will divulge the actual clocks. It'll just be 8 core CPU, 8GB of RAM, etc. Regarding the downclock, I think I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now since we can't confirm any of this yet. Somehow I just can't accept that they'd go into E3, where they'll be demoing games, without finalizing their hardware.
turnbuckle
Member
just so long as you don't lump vocal skeptics into the hater column I agree. thank you for passing on what you're hearing. time will tell what the truth is, but I don't believe you or your sources are pulling stuff out of thin air. much appreciated
And how quickly do you think this can be done? Something like this is probably talking two years minimum. By then PS4 would have an insurmountable lead and this gen would be lost.
If you're MS, you just put some lipstick on and spin it the best you can. We've already seen that with "5 Billion Transistors" and "Infinite Power of the Cloud." Spin, spin, and more spin. That's the only effective course. The used game DRM also makes sense. Because if Sony doesn't match this, it's one way to suddenly get EA to heavily favor your system.
AstroNut325
Member
I'm baffled. And to think I was a blind Xbox fanboy last gen and the start of this gen.
So far EVERY negative rumor has been true. This does not bode well for MS. Oh well! You deserve it MS!
So far EVERY negative rumor has been true. This does not bode well for MS. Oh well! You deserve it MS!
So what is this Curse?
NES ~ 61.91 million , SNES ~ 49.10 million , N64 32.93 million just a steady decline as the competition got tougher & the 4th console the Gamecube sold ~ 21.74 million continuing the Nintendo decline.
Master System ~ 1013 million , Genesis ~ 40 million , Saturn ~ 9.5 million curse of what? not being the Genesis? because every other Sega console sold around the 10 million mark even Dreamcast ~ 10.6 million
PS1 ~ 102.49 million , PS2 ~ 155 million , PS3 ~ 80 million & going it's going to end up right around the same numbers as the PS1.
Do you have the docs to back that up?
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
It's more a case of how those companies themselves regarded them as relative failures given the success they had with previous hardware via market share.
No it wasn't fully unified memory. There was still eDram. Essentialy you had two pools of memory (one small other large). Where PS4 has only one pool of mamory.
Perfect, Xbox One is saved!
That's an easy one. Selling less than your predecessor.
Where company thinks it can sell anything based on their heritage/market share in last gen.
PS3 was just direct example of "3rd console curse". Remember Sony exec lines that people will buy anything even if they will need third job ? That is the problem and looks like MS is going this way too.
Fortinbras
Member
I did the same and I feel bad about it. I bought over 150 games on XBL and played over 300 games on the 360. I have a PS3 but I only used it for exclusives. At this point I'm certain I'm going PS4U next gen.
To be honest I was done with the Xbone when I read about Microsofts plans about used games and online requirements. (I don't buy used but I like to sell games after beating them.)
Sony was always pretty good at the hardware side (other than cell being hard to program for).
Sucks to see this happen since multiplatform titles might be affected as a result... (of course they could program for the ps4 then downscale it to the nextbox).
However Microsoft's arrogance seems to be a facade for the real things going on behind the scenes.
Sucks to see this happen since multiplatform titles might be affected as a result... (of course they could program for the ps4 then downscale it to the nextbox).
However Microsoft's arrogance seems to be a facade for the real things going on behind the scenes.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Well, MS already did the pooled UMA design thing with X360 while adding a fast EDRAM buffer that benefits more than hurts, AFAICT, just looking released titles over the years. Just looking at the stuff rumors and leaks have revealed, MS, having a longview with their DX roadmap and experience from their own studios, seems to have designed their hardware to address the problem of feeding units work data all of the time as well as trying to wipe out most of the cost of cache being killed to feed commonly used data. That's seems to be a more direct approach than the more general purpose one Sony took, AFAICT, but I'm no hardware or graphics tech-head. MS, it seems to me, built their version of the core hardware both they and Sony share, to be potentially much greater with maximizing the benefit of partially resident textures that UE4, idTech 5/6, and CE3+ support. In a general way, Sony added and then maxed out their pipes to the single RAM pool and CPU/GPU caches, while MS also did much the same except for focusing on having a high-speed on-chip cache and adding more dedicated copy/load/store/compress units to ease the burden from the CPU for data movement. MS' solution seems more complicated, but when these newer APU designs' goals are accounted for, memory virtualization should make managing it a relative snap and probably mostly hidden from programmers unless they specify more micromanagement with prefetching and how data is laid out to be consumed in the 32MB cache. I don't see how ESRAM is a mistake when it's clear that it has major benefits for actually utilizing the hardware and trying to limit the loss going from potential performance to achieved performance. That's the same goal as building out a high bandwidth connection to GDDR5 RAM and adding more ways to access cache, bypass it, and move data through it. If Sony's approach was really just flat-out superior, why wouldn't MS have just gone with that considering that it's so similar to what they had in the X360 and that it would be less complex as well as less costly? MS sees the benefit and I'm not convinced that it's just a Rube Goldberg machine method of achieving the same goal because they're using DDR3 for their main work RAM.
Perhaps it's a mistake, but we're not quite near launch yet, with less than six months or so to go. MS could just take a big hit on cost upfront by taking what they get out of current manufacturing and just eat the higher cost/lower yields until the process is smoothed out over the next year, but not necessarily downclocking to make target shipments and time window. It's not uncommon for new consoles to be in less than great shape so close to release, as MS was behind with X360 and was forced to demo in-progress games with less than ideal performance at E3 '05 with their beta kits, IIRC, which don't quite approximate the final hardware's speed and behavior completely. We could be looking at something very similar with X1. In any case, rumors are rumors, and even when they are right, they can miss a lot of important details that can make them seem more major than they really are. I'm not going to underestimate MS' plans and execution when they came out fine twice before.
more like lack of people who created Xbox what it is today for many people. Most of dudes who were creating Xbox1 is not around anymore
Well split-gen is going to continue until the end of next year for at least major releases ....
So seen as they probably have multiple prototypes over the course of development: The simple thing is for them to remove the DDR3/eSRAM/DME and replace with GDDR5, so they need to test the system, heat sink it properly, etc.
Part of the blame can also be burned by the Xbox OS team which is not in tune with what the audience wants. TV and/or gaming audience. That gives them enough rope to at least get rid of funk
I would give the entire Xbox division a must be out by first week of October, have them work every hour of every day until it simply works.
D
Deleted member 8095
Unconfirmed Member
I think the PS4 is back in front for me. If I HAD to chose only one console right now based on what we know, it would be the PS4.
Haha, indeed I did!
OP updated, if a mod wants to change the thread title go for it.
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