Gordon Shumway
Banned
Geezuz..it's spreading lol.
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Two muslims women expelled from a french restaurant, called "terrorists".
- Thread starter Golden_Pigeon
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Necrophage
Member
I never said it was okay. In fact it's the primary issue. This has been the conclusion I had hoped people would come to earlier in the discussion so we could move forward.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Meh speak for yourself, I'm way more afraid of a random white person AKing a public place than I'll ever be of a Muslim doing any harm.
MistakenMobius
Member
Where do you live?
Necrophage
Member
You apparently don't live in the Middle-East.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Banned for what, pudding? For laughing at someone who's practically saying what the guy in the restaurant did? Someone that feels it's ok because "well, Muslims?" Someone that can't stop busting CAPS? Doubt that's gonna happen, kiddo..I do enjoy your post tho! 😐
Angelus Errare
Banned
The "greatest" country on earth. The country that shits itself at the sight of a Muslim thinking they're going to do something bad but pretty much ignores when disgruntled white guy number 453029 decides that shooting up a public place is the right way to vent his frustrations because Becky didn't call him or Tommy made fun of his Linkin Park anime MV.
You're the sherlock of GAF my guy.
I thought you hated to shit post 🤔
Necrophage
Member
Respond with "kiddo" more please. Makes you look that much more childish. If you could step outside of your childish condescension for half a fucking second you would understand that I never said it is acceptible, but yet understandable given the situation IN FRANCE. Some caps for you, bruh, since it seems to bother you so much.
MetaCircular
Member
It seems to be acceptable to have a skewed perspective on an entire demographic, but only if that demographic is privileged.
First date with man? Sexist/misogynist/rapist until proven otherwise. Keep the cops on speed-dial.
Or, maybe there's a statistical threshold, where a high enough percentage of 'bad apples' means it's ok to generalize the entire group.
As for me, I also prefer to think of people as individuals.
They were born in France, and the diversity in the french population is a heritage of its colonial past, one that it has dealt with quite poorly and the fact that there were so many young muslims ready to follow Deash is a failure on part of France.
That being said, something like Daesh could only ever exist in a failed state like Syria.
Well, white people are 60% of the US population and muslims are like 0,5%, so yeah, one is more likely than the other.
Necrophage
Member
At least it's a relevant response, unlike the ridiculous used to construct yours. It could also be enlightening if he / she decides to do research and understand the reasoning behind the statement. Which would also be conducive to the discussion.
People should stop acting like the sentiments leading to events like these are simply a result of the terrorist attacks. Sure, the terrorist attacks probably brought more bigots out of the woodworks, but there's a longstanding history of bigotry and racism against Arabs and Muslims in France. It's definitely not a new thing. People were already telling Arabs to go back to their countries 20 years ago and losing their shit when they saw Muslims wearing traditional clothing.
MistakenMobius
Member
To each their own problem.
I agree that the US has big issues with gun, mental health and racist scumbag hating on black people.
But that's a non common occurrence in western europe
Necrophage
Member
In America, sure, but that's not what we're talking about here. There are 1.6 billion Muslims globally.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Hey, sport..there's no need for so much aggression and foul language. I'm sorry for saying kiddo, champ. It's just the way I speak is all. You certainly are getting good with this "shit posting" you mentioned earlier? Kudos, little buddy! Also, I'm not your bruh, tiger..
Palette Swap
Member
At best, it's the straw that broke the camel's back, but don't think for a second these ideas and attitudes haven't been around and propagated for years in France. Terrorism in this case is just an excuse to act like a bigot, after several politicians signaled it was okay to harass women to make a stand against terrorism.
At the end of the day, people like that guy are just part of a great tradition of French heroism, like the guys who laid arms in 1940, named their Jewish neighbors during the occupation years while profiteering off it, and shaved women when the country was liberated.
Nervous Sausage
Member
If you're referring to me, he didn't get me to do anything. I just felt like I was losing my sanity with each passing post that was failing to understand the point directed at Necrophage, so I could only imagine the physical pain he was feeling. I even agree with Sai-Kun, that both people who refuse to serve food to Muslims or cops are idiots but us humans are often flawed with our thinking patterns and find it easier to sometimes lump in the bad part of a particular group with the good part, if nothing else than to be on the safe side, an evolutionary trait for survival I'd assume. It might be true that it doesn't even matter what reason they have to justify their actions and getting to the bottom of it is pointless but I still feel like it's important to at least understand why people feel the way they do so we could figure out a long term solution, and a way to assuage their fears and their hate. Stopping the killing of innocent people would be a good start.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Is this the build up to some MRA nonsense?
Necrophage
Member
Are you kidding me? My wife is French. Her grandparents still live there. And as it turns out the country has been extremely peaceful for an extended period of time, even towards immigrants. The terrorist attacks were definitely the catalyst.
GhostTrick
Banned
That's fuckin bullshit. It's not about cultural differences. It's just plain and obvious racism. Why ? Because France still is dealing with its colonial past. So yes, it's more about old grudges and stupidity rather than integration or assimilation.
LucidMomentum
Member
Are some of your best friends Muslim, perhaps?
MetaCircular
Member
Absolutely not!
It's just all these discussions have a similar structure/form/progression. I think that's what Necrophage was trying to point out.
I was born and lived in France for 15 years and witnessed a fuckton of racism during my time there. Both in Alsace (my primary school classes were about 50% second or third generation immigrants) and in Région Centre. My parents witnessed and often talk about people who were racist in their youth. And we're white! Imagine being on the receiving end. And actually, my father had racist shit lobbed at him most of his life simply because he looks vaguely Arab (even though he's not).
Don't act like it's all new, it's fucking not.
Necrophage
Member
And I take it you're French? Or have more insight into the situation that I do given my political conversations with her father and the rest of her family?
Palette Swap
Member
You're clueless. Having a French wife doesn't make you an expert.
Source : every opinion poll we've had for years where Islam was at the top of people's concerns, every other cover from Le Point or Valeurs Actuelles, and pretty much every recent election.
Necrophage, you're totally forcing that comparison down everyone's throat and for what? So we maybe understand this restaurant's owner completely irrational fear better ("we all have irrational fears!")? Time and again the muslim community has spoken out against terrorism. How often does it need to be said that muslims are not terrorists? That's why we should pay zero understanding to this guy's fears. It's like me suddenly fearing white boys because other white boys were responsible for school or mall shootings. I can't relate nor am I in any way comparable to the white boys that committed those acts. Just like the vast vast majority of muslims can't relate or are comparable in any way to what the terrorists are doing. Just because the restaurant owner is ignorant of this does not make his fear palatable at all, even if terrorist attacks did just happen.
Necrophage
Member
Right. And I'm sure people from different areas in the country don't have different experiences or standards. All French people are the same? Just like Americans are all racist yeah? This is another case of generalizing and it makes me sad. I'm sure alt-right Americans think everyone in America is racist. Or everyone in Japan is racist towards Americans for events that took place on WWII. Come on now... I thought we were past this.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Nah, bud..I was just messing around with that. I hear everything you're saying, but as a black man who's ready to pounce at a moment's notice, these excuses start to sound reeeal familiar. Extremist have attacked France multiple times recently: Correct. This doesn't mean Muslims as a whole attacked.
The lumping of all has gotten me chased, spit upon, beaten up, treated like an animal. When these threads pop up, it's seems like "fuck you people" day, time and time again..it's a bit scary to me. I've been bitten by a dog. All dogs don't scare me all of the sudden. I've been mistreated by white folks. Some of the greatest people in my life are white and my family treats them as blood.
I'm just not a fan, is all..it's equally as frustrating to watch. Hope you can understand that and again, sorry if you thought I was attacking you or anything.
GhostTrick
Banned
I am French. It's not since the terrorist attacks that the situation became like this. It's just more obvious these days. But extremely peaceful ? Even toward immigrants ? It's not like in 2002, the extreme right racist party got in the 2nd turn of elections. And it's not like we had debates about silly things for nearly a decade now.
Ragnar Blackmane
Member
Yep, the real terrorists are achieving what they want to achieve.
Shame to see the French and other Europeans being played by them like a fiddle.
There is always a whole lot of chest thumping and declaring how the terrorists won't succeed in speading fear and dissent and changing our ways and then stuff like this happens, it's sad.
Shame to see the French and other Europeans being played by them like a fiddle.
There is always a whole lot of chest thumping and declaring how the terrorists won't succeed in speading fear and dissent and changing our ways and then stuff like this happens, it's sad.
Necrophage
Member
Maybe it should help you understand where the restaurant owner is coming from. If you can't show some empathy, step outside of yourself and try to understand, then maybe you're part of the problem. Condemning someone for having legitimately understandable fears of a demographic given current events is ludicrous.
We're human. We fear what we don't understand. Is that completely damping? Does it make the restaurant owner complete human filth like most people here claim? No. It doesn't.
You are the one who's generalising. No one said all French people were racist. I said that racism was, and has always been an issue in France. It doesn't mean everyone partakes in it, but it does mean that a number of people do. Things weren't ideal until suddenly terrorist attacks happened and *bam* racism, islamophobia and shit happened. It's been going on for decades. Shit like this happened back in the 60s.
Anti-Arab sentiments go way back and have never left.
Every polls I've seen prior to next election the main preoccupation by far was joblessness or the econonmy.
Next year's election top preoccupation is security, for the first time.
lol fuck off with that shit, it's just one restaurant owner.
LucidMomentum
Member
So you're saying that your talks with your French relatives means you can speak for all French people?
And that their opinions of Muslims means that everyone has that opinion of Muslims?
We have that same issue in the U.S. They're taking our jobs, we need to keep them out, etc. Not sure if the polls are indicative that people aren't concerned with xenophobia, per se.
It is a failure of many people that we don't take the time to really understand where the bigot is coming from.
I am as guilty of this as anyone.
I'm under the impression that these racial tensions were always present but people kept their bigotry to themselves.
These recent terrorist attacks (and perhaps even since 9/11) have emboldened some people to be far more open and direct with their bigotry.
Thankfully France has relatively competent courts and laws that can usually hold such racists accountable.
Necrophage
Member
And those members have been ridiculed in the media ever since.
Fear usually has a source, yes. It still doesn't justify bigotry and racist behavior. Should we empathize with a lynching mob from back in the day because of a perceived fear of black people raping white women? The crime is not the same as here, but the demonization/otherization pretty much is.
Unbelievable.
Everyone should make sure they can step outside themselves and have empathy... for the bigot who kicked women out of a restaurant because of their religion.
How about you have some empathy for the women who were expelled from the restaurant for no goddamn reason?
Necrophage
Member
You are the one who's generalising. No one said all French people were racist. I said that racism was, and has always been an issue in France. It doesn't mean everyone partakes in it, but it does mean that a number of people do. Things weren't ideal until suddenly terrorist attacks happened and *bam* racism, islamophobia and shit happened. It's been going on for decades. Shit like this happened back in the 60s.
Anti-Arab sentiments go way back and have never left.
True. But since then, when was the last time you've heard of rampant racism in France? Most racist views have been condemned by the general public, since the media has a huge influence on government in France. The terrorist attacks were what changed the general consensus. I was thinking about moving to France with my wife to gain dual citizenship, but all I hear from her family now is that there is too much violence in the country.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Because they were just attacked by all Muslims? What's so hard to understand? Sheesh..
Necrophage
Member
Yes. You should. Otherwise what is this conversation for? To stroke your justifiable stance and your ego? Or to understand the situation and educate people. To try and brainstorm methods to correct the situation? If it's the former, this thread only exists for people to stroke themselves and condemn people who think otherwise.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
"Have some empathy for the guy that called two women terrorists just for sitting in a restaurant! He was afraid!"
Seriously? We should excuse irrational bullshit just because someone was afraid?
Considering this :
I don't think it's wrong to feel some empathy.
Or all Muslims are the same for that matter.
I hope the follow up story about the guy meeting local Muslims means everyone's learned something and, easy to say sat here, can move on.
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