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[Alx]

Any example of thread where you did the same about reporting an attack against a minority ?

I'm not on a crusade to fight all topics that I don't find relevant, especially since I usually don't read them to begin with. I just happened to post in there and follow the discussion because of the auto-subscription, and that's because I'm naturally interested in topics mentioning France.
But if you want a different example, I don't think the multiple "a US cop shot an innocent black man" threads are relevant either. Sure it's terrible and each one of those killers should be punished. But the real issue is how often that happens and whether black people are more targeted than others. An isolated event is just that, but the issue is in the numbers, as heartless as it may sound (but being rational usually starts by stopping being emotional).
(and yeah I'm aware I'm opening a can of worms with such example and will probably regret it, but whatever...)
*e : oh shit, top of the page even. I'm already dead.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Any example of thread where you did the same about reporting an attack against a minority ?

I swear i read a lot of thread about racist or bigoted incident on GAF but it's only on the muslims thread that we get some "mixed" and "call for comprehension"..

Seriously, you are asking people if they made a thread on a gaming forum to prove their standpoint about racism?

Anyway, restaurant guy has no excuse for this behavior and should be fined.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

My problem is that amongst your Erdogan defense in the other thread you seem to make use of these incidents by using it as an islamophobia shield. As we all agree here, there is no defending these racists in this case. And the latrst terror attacks don't make this outright hateful behavior ok either.

Yet we're not living in a contextless bubble, there are problems with Islam that have become very obvious in europe. A move in the right direction would be to have a conversation about how to make it (work) better in our societies, not throw down any attempt by self-victimization and islamophobia claims. Because by doing that, as a big part of the (western) european left has done for a long time until recently, you leave the topic entirely to the far-right which again fuels anti-muslim sentiment.

Man, you were just recycling the myths of islamophobes of any youtube video about muslims taking over in France (like that they are organizing public prayers in Paris to block roads) just two days ago and now you want to speak about Europe "muslim problem" ?

Yes, there is a muslim problem, it's called xenophobia. Every minority in the West have or had to pass by that in some moment of it's history. Let's just hope it's happen with the minimum damage. But there is a limit of what can actually be done by muslims. For islamophobes, a muslim speaking out against terrorist and in favour of women right is just operating under taqqiya to seduce westerners. Most of them have irrealist expectation about what they consider muslims integrations and are just asking muslims to stop beings muslims like drinking wine and stop wearing hijab.

And calling muslims to stop acting like they are actually citizen of their countries, it's not a solution, it's part of the problem.

I am not saying that nothing must be done on the muslim side, obviously, radicalization should be fought for instance but the way my country is doing it is clearly counterproductive and oppressive, because they mix conservative or ultraconservative values and actual dangerous radicalism leading to terrorism. It's actually really dangerous since many ultraconservative imams have received a "fiche S" who signalize someone as a radical potential terrorist, and thus complicate the task of fighting actual terrorists, when the imam in question (of Brest) received a ISIS fatwa against him and is one of the main force against ISIS ideologically in France toward young people.

Muslims ultraconservative should have the same right as their ultraconservative counterparts in others religions. But yet, they are singled out and suspected of terrorism sympathy for things as futile as not greeting opposite sex with the hand and it's called a lack of integration when the jews loubavitch do the exact same thing without any type of reaction.

One can dislike conservatism or even religion i really don't care, the point is to start considering muslims as full citizen, entitled to their opinions and practice without their individuals rights or nationality being discuted.

They are thus antagonizing muslims and facilitating the works of the radicals. I am speaking about ISIS, not about a secret operation by the muslim brotherhood to take over Europe.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

Seriously, you are asking people if they made a thread on a gaming forum to prove their standpoint about racism?

Anyway, restaurant guy has no excuse for this behavior and should be fined.

I meant posting in it about this issue. I doubt it would fly that well.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

I'm not on a crusade to fight all topics that I don't find relevant, especially since I usually don't read them to begin with. I just happened to post in there and follow the discussion because of the auto-subscription, and that's because I'm naturally interested in topics mentioning France.
But if you want a different example, I don't think the multiple "a US cop shot an innocent black man" threads are relevant either. Sure it's terrible and each one of those killers should be punished. But the real issue is how often that happens and whether black people are more targeted than others. An isolated event is just that, but the issue is in the numbers, as heartless as it may sound (but being rational usually starts by stopping being emotional).
(and yeah I'm aware I'm opening a can of worms with such example and will probably regret it, but whatever...)
*e : oh shit, top of the page even. I'm already dead.

Sorry if i was wrong about you, i do think you should rethink this idea since most of people don't relate to statistics like the famous quote from Stalin every Call of Duty players know.

 

[orochi91]

At the contrary, it's sharing it and generate general outrage that will prevent this kind of event to be normalized. Without the shitstorm the guy is receiving, he would think that was a normal thing to do.

Every antiracist group adopt this as a strategy, to publicize the cases of discriminations, to generate empathy. If this is not done, only the targeted group is concerned by racism.

Agreed, wholeheartedly.

Shedding more light on the racism being directed towards Muslims in Europe is something I can get behind, since that hostility can potentially impact the lives of Muslims here in Canada.

We had a French politician in Quebec, Jean Francois Lisée, who recently tried to mimic the burkini ban in Nice, while also hoping to ban the burka as well. Thankfully our federal government (bless Trudeau) shut that BS down.

Bigots need to be put in the spotlight and dealt with accordingly, specifically those who actually wield authoritative power.

 

[Alx]

Sorry if i was wrong about you, i do think you should rethink this idea since most of people don't relate to statistics like the famous quote from Stalin every Call of Duty players know.

And that's why people should be educated to use and understand statistics better. Racism is fueled by people using anecdotal evidence to justify their opinion on other people, while not seeing the big picture. You won't fight a flawed reasoning with another flawed reasoning.

 

[Kyonashi]

Spoiler

I can't believe no-ones made this terrible joke in four pages, so here I go.

What a bad name for a restaurant.

 

[MistakenMobius]

Agreed, wholeheartedly.

Shedding more light on the racism being directed towards Muslims in Europe is something I can get behind, since that hostility can potentially impact the lives of Muslims here in Canada.

But then website like francais de souche could also be accepted since they shed light on heinous crime

 

[orochi91]

But then website like francais de souche could also be accepted since they shed light on heinous crime

This isn't a binary choice, if there is something newsworthy to report, then do so. Nothing in my post mentioned censoring news.

The mods can decide whether its acceptable or not.

 

[Necrophage]

Just throwing my opinion out there.

How can everyone demonize people for being concerned about Muslims given the global situation at hand, but immediately shit on situations involving cops in the U.S.? Is it not a similar situation?

Not trying to derail the OP, but as soon as a topic pops up about police brutality everyone grabs their pitchforks. But when a thread is created like this, people want to get on the defensive? It's the same thing! Global events dictate world views. I don't understand the hypocrisy here.

Mind you I understand police brutality in the U.S. is a real thing. But it's mind boggling how people can fully comprehend being insecure when it comes to police in America, but not understand why people are concerned about Muslim presence given the situation. It's like... two similar situations, but one view is acceptable while the other is inconceivable.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

Many of my Friends who went to France during the summer told me they were met with a lot of hostility,
-They were called Terrorist on the streets
-Go back to your own country although they are tourists
-and they were with their families so yes Muslim women are being targeted in France

 

[Hyperactivity]

Just throwing my opinion out there.

How can everyone demonize people for being concerned about Muslims given the global situation at hand, but immediately shit on situations involving cops in the U.S.? Is it not a similar situation?

Not trying to derail the OP, but as soon as a topic pops up about police brutality everyone grabs their pitchforks. But when a thread is created like this, people want to get on the defensive? It's the same thing! Global events dictate world views. I don't understand the hypocrisy here.

Mind you I understand police brutality in the U.S. is a real thing. But it's mind boggling how people can fully comprehend being insecure when it comes to police in America, but not understand why people are concerned about Muslim presence given the situation. It's like... two similar situations, but one view is acceptable while the other is inconceivable.

In police brutality, you're dealing with people inpositions of power.

In police brutality, you're dealing with case after case of the murderer getting away with the crime.

In police brutality, you're deakling with the chances of INSTITUTIONALIZED racism, the kind that gets people thrown into jails.

In police brutality, you constantly have media figures try and defame the victims and defend the culprits,

Tell me how this comparison is in any way supposed to be a good one.

 

[Black Republican]

well thats depressing

 

[Necrophage]

In police brutality, you're dealing with people inpositions of power.

In police brutality, you're dealing with case after case of the murderer getting away with the crime.

In police brutality, you're deakling with the chances of INSTITUTIONALIZED racism, the kind that gets people thrown into jails.

In police brutality, you constantly have media figures try and defame the victims and defend the culprits,

Tell me how this comparison is in any way supposed to be a good one.

In FRANCE, they just encountered one of the most DEVASTATING terrorist attacks their country has ever seen in recent history from MUSLIM radicals. It applies.

 

[Mivey]

In FRANCE, they just encountered one of the most DEVASTATING terrorist attacks their country has ever seen in recent history from MUSLIM radicals. It applies.

So if they treat anyone who just looks a bit MUSLIM like garbage, the MUSLIM menace will just go away. Yes, all those "experts" who think international terorrism is a complex problem that involves better security and intelligence, and beyond that active help for the failed states that produces it, fuck those guys. If you just get enough angry mobs, that solves everything.
Maybe I should start selling pitchforks and torches in France, could turn out to be profitable.

 

[Llyranor]

In FRANCE, they just encountered one of the most DEVASTATING terrorist attacks their country has ever seen in recent history from MUSLIM radicals. It applies.

What are you proposing? Internment camps? 'No dogs, no Muslims' signs at shops and restaurants? Maybe stitch some sort of 'star and crescent' into their clothing for easier identification (might as well ban the hijab since we won't be needing that to identify who to harass anymore)?

 

[Big Baybee]

In FRANCE, they just encountered one of the most DEVASTATING terrorist attacks their country has ever seen in recent history from MUSLIM radicals. It applies.

It's not the same thing. Like wow at some of the open bigotry in these threads.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Did we discuss how none of the other customers in the restaurant intervened at all? That's the worst part of this story IMO.

 

[MistakenMobius]

So if they treat anyone who just looks a bit MUSLIM like garbage, the MUSLIM menace will just go away. Yes, all those "experts" who think international terorrism is a complex problem that involves better security and intelligence, and beyond that active help for the failed states that produces it, fuck those guys. If you just get enough angry mobs, that solves everything.
Maybe I should start selling pitchforks and torches in France, could turn out to be profitable.

Do you consider France a failed state?

Most of the terrorist were born in France...

 

[Necrophage]

So if they treat anyone who just looks a bit MUSLIM like garbage, the MUSLIM menace will just go away. Yes, all those "experts" who think international terorrism is a complex problem that involves better security and intelligence, and beyond that active help for the failed states that produces it, fuck those guys. If you just get enough angry mobs, that solves everything.
Maybe I should start selling pitchforks and torches in France, could turn out to be profitable.

Your reading comprehension must be flawed. In what way, shape or form can you relate anything I said to issues involving security and intelligence? I'm strictly talking about how the public perceives different cultures based on current events. Hence the U.S. view on the police compared to France's view on Muslim extremist culture. You are taking everything out of context. Police brutality in America = international concern over encounters involving police. Terrorist attack in France attributed to Muslim extremists = international fear of Muslims. Is that seriously so fucking hard for you to understand?

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

In FRANCE, they just encountered one of the most DEVASTATING terrorist attacks their country has ever seen in recent history from MUSLIM radicals. It applies.

You really like that institutionally racist police brutality = terrorism comparison huh?

Well in that case I think we should wait for all the facts about the terrorist attacks in France to come out. After all, I'm sure many of the victims were no angels and it's understandable why they were targeted right?

 

[ClosingADoor]

Did we discuss how none of the other customers in the restaurant intervened at all? That's the worst part of this story IMO.

Combination of bystander effect, not knowing what to do quickly, and being told all your life to not intervene in stuff because it's "not your problem". Not really surprising actually.

 

[Necrophage]

You really like that institutionally racist police brutality = terrorism comparison huh?

Well in that case I think we should wait for all the facts about the terrorist attacks in France to come out. After all, I'm sure many of the victims were no angels and it's understandable why they were targeted right?

How is police brutality not similar to domestic terrorism? And you act like a terrorist attack IN France didn't JUST happen.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

How is police brutality not similar to domestic terrorism? And you act like a terrorist attack IN France didn't JUST happen.

Good point.

#TerroristLivesMatter

 

[Necrophage]

Good point.

#TerroristLivesMatter

Okay. Not only are you completely impossible to have a legitimate discussion with, you intentionally make shit posts. Good job. You have contributed to this discussion more than I could ever possibly imagine.

 

[Kurtofan]

You really like that institutionally racist police brutality = terrorism comparison huh?

Well in that case I think we should wait for all the facts about the terrorist attacks in France to come out. After all, I'm sure many of the victims were no angels and it's understandable why they were targeted right?

So you think police brutality is justified? I don't get what you're trying to say here.

 

[Dalibor68]

So if they treat anyone who just looks a bit MUSLIM like garbage, the MUSLIM menace will just go away. Yes, all those "experts" who think international terorrism is a complex problem that involves better security and intelligence, and beyond that active help for the failed states that produces it, fuck those guys. If you just get enough angry mobs, that solves everything.
Maybe I should start selling pitchforks and torches in France, could turn out to be profitable.

Judging and hatefully insulting someone like that because of religion = VERY WRONG

Acting like there is no connection to (radical) islam and dismissing any discussion attempts with Islamophobia Card = WRONG AND COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE

Getting everyone(minus radical racists and islamists) together and talking how to improve sociatal status and preventing radicalization(for example by finally stopping SA from sending radical Imams and/or by adding an (only) official imam course at university in the local language) = RIGHT

 

[Necrophage]

What are you proposing? Internment camps? 'No dogs, no Muslims' signs at shops and restaurants? Maybe stitch some sort of 'star and crescent' into their clothing for easier identification (might as well ban the hijab since we won't be needing that to identify who to harass anymore)?

Did I imply that? NO! All I'm saying is that people on this forum understand fear of police in America, but don't understand fear of Muslims in a country that was just attacked by Muslims. Holy fuck how difficult is this to comprehend?

 

[Big Baybee]

Did I imply that? NO! All I'm saying is that people on this forum understand fear of police in America, but don't understand fear of Muslims in a country that was just attacked by Muslims. Holy fuck how difficult is this to comprehend?

and people can point out that it's irrational. Why should we understand the irrational fear people have of all Muslims?

 

[Necrophage]

and people can point out that it's irrational. Why should we understand the irrational fear people have of all Muslims?

Because people have an irrational fear of all police! Do you get it now?

 

[NEO0MJ]

Because people have an irrational fear of all police! Do you get it now?

How in the world does that even make sense? I feel you're pushing for something without a strong foundation.

 

[Llyranor]

Did I imply that? NO! All I'm saying is that people on this forum understand fear of police in America, but don't understand fear of Muslims in a country that was just attacked by Muslims. Holy fuck how difficult is this to comprehend?

Consider the difference between one of the most powerful groups in society vs the most disenfranchised/otherized.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

Okay. Not only are you completely impossible to have a legitimate discussion with, you intentionally make shit posts. Good job. You have contributed to this discussion more than I could ever possibly imagine.

Why the anger? I'm just trying to support your police brutality/terrorism analogy.

Did I imply that? NO! All I'm saying is that people on this forum understand fear of police in America, but don't understand fear of Muslims in a country that was just attacked by Muslims. Holy fuck how difficult is this to comprehend?

Those terrorists were also EU citizens, when are we going to see French businesses start turning away all French and Belgian nationals?

No. Police in America literally kill hundreds of people a year. Thousands are imprisoned for petty crimes and thousands are beat and harassed. And it is all sanctioned by our state governments. Is the French government paying Muslim terrorists to patrol their streets?

Comment about welfare coming in 3...2...

 

[Big Baybee]

Because people have an irrational fear of all police! Do you get it now?

No. Police in America literally kill hundreds of people a year. Thousands are imprisoned for petty crimes and thousands are beat and harassed. And it is all sanctioned by our state governments. Is the French government paying Muslim terrorists to patrol their streets?

 

[Necrophage]

How in the world does that even make sense? I feel you're pushing for something without a strong foundation.

Holy fucking goddamn christ. Isolated incidents of police brutality in America equates to every post about police brutality on this forum condemning the police force as a whole. But when a country encounters a terrorist attack, by Muslims, and has a fear of Muslims, people can't understand how that's fucking possible.

 

[Big Baybee]

Holy fucking goddamn christ. Isolated incidents of police brutality in America equates to every post about police brutality on this forum condemning the police force as a whole.

It's not isolated incidents though. Can you grasp that?

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

Because people have an irrational fear of all police! Do you get it now?

Repeat after me: "police" is not an immutable trait such as race, sex, age, religion, or sexual preference.

 

[Necrophage]

No. Police in America literally kill hundreds of people a year. Thousands are imprisoned for petty crimes and thousands are beat and harassed. And it is all sanctioned by our state governments. Is the French government paying Muslim terrorists to patrol their streets?

You are completely circumventing my point. Who cares if the culprit is sanctioned or not? My point is, regardless of extenuating circumstances, people can fucking UNDERSTAND why a country fears one group, but not the other. Period.

 

[Necrophage]

Repeat after me: "police" is not an immutable trait such as race, sex, age, religion, or sexual preference.

And how does that impact this discussion? Because Muslim association based on religion and the police are not? Both can still be compared based on public perception.

 

[MistakenMobius]

Repeat after me: "police" is not an immutable trait such as race, sex, age, religion, or sexual preference.

Religion is an immutable trait?

 

[Big Baybee]

You are completely circumventing my point. Who cares if the culprit is sanctioned or not? My point is, regardless of extenuating circumstances, people can fucking UNDERSTAND why a country fears one group, but not the other. Period.

You comparison is completely off base, just thought you should know that. Police brutality angle doesn't fit.

 

[Necrophage]

It's not isolated incidents though. Can you grasp that?

How are they not isolated? Is this some sort of American phenomenon that is happening everywhere simultaneously? Maybe you need to look up the definition of "isolated."

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

Religion is an immutable trait?

Nah but it's protected on the same level as one.

 

[Big Baybee]

How are they not isolated? Is this some sort of American phenomenon that is happening everywhere simultaneously? Maybe you need to look up the definition of "isolated."

Maybe you should look at some federal reports about the state of policing in America and get back to reality.

 

[Necrophage]

You comparison is completely off base, just thought you should know that. Police brutality angle doesn't fit.

Please. Enlighten me as to how the "angle" doesn't fit.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Repeat after me: "police" is not an immutable trait such as race, sex, age, religion, or sexual preference.

You can change religion. Not that people should be allowed to discriminated based on it however.

 

[Necrophage]

Maybe you should look at some federal reports about the state of policing in America and get back to reality.

Once again. I love how you make statements but refuse to establish facts to support your claim and try to place ignorance on my behalf. Well done.

 

[MistakenMobius]

Nah but it's protected on the same level as one.

Not in France: if you don't want to have a man doctor because of your beliefs.
If you refuse to accept the teaching of a woman teacher because of you religion.
You can be prosecuted

 

[The Doc]

You are completely circumventing my point. Who cares if the culprit is sanctioned or not? My point is, regardless of extenuating circumstances, people can fucking UNDERSTAND why a country fears one group, but not the other. Period.

I get your point. Maybe you're right , maybe not. But , at the end of the day , who cares? What changes?