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Valve has 'hl3.txt' in Dota patch w/ procedural gen, NPC recruitment, zipline, quests
- Thread starter ashecitism
- Start date
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Frog Fractions 2 is the hl3.txt file
TheVoidDragon
Member
After looking through some of this, unless i've got something wrong it seems people are just jumping to conclusions. There's not really anything that unusual there, certainly nothing i can see that suggest it's an open-world RPG like some seem to think.
The mentions of procedural generation seem to be regarding NPC spawning. The NPC recruitment/squads seem to be something similar to what HL2 had with rebels following you. The Zipline seems to be for NPCs only. There's an NPC called npc_quest_citizen, which could be anything really, that doesn't suggest the game itself has actual quests.
The mentions of procedural generation seem to be regarding NPC spawning. The NPC recruitment/squads seem to be something similar to what HL2 had with rebels following you. The Zipline seems to be for NPCs only. There's an NPC called npc_quest_citizen, which could be anything really, that doesn't suggest the game itself has actual quests.
Iced_Eagle
Member
Source 2 is built from Source 1. Tons of code and other items are bound to be left over.
One thing I also don't know is if Source 2 supports older machines which only run DX7 or DX8 (or if DX9 is minimum). Could be pretty easy to check with Dota 2 Reborn client if someone has a crazy old machine lying around.
Coffee Dog
Banned
this obviously isn't anything, but I do wonder who the douche is at valve that gets their giggles riling up the community like this. 
This right here is my main problem with Valve. The Steam client needed a serious overhaul, but since they have their monopoly, it has stagnated performance wise. Let me repeat that the Steam CLIENT is s poorly optimized piece of shit. How does that even happen?
D
Deleted member 102362
Unconfirmed Member
Time to skim through a few thousand lines of code...
Not really. Source 2 has had 360 entries since the DOTA 2 Source 2 workshop tools were released. IIRC, someone said they are remnants from the old Left for Dead games or something
I think you're somewhat exaggerating here. If it was as awful as you claim it is, then there'd be a lot more noise about it. Fact is, the Steam client isn't broken, and whilst it's getting a bit old now, Valve's Steam engineers have judged that working on features like Big Picture and SteamOS is more valuable for their customers.
Tough shit.
It's been 2 years since the last game, that isn't exactly a long time without a game. I also don't see in the point in a company of only around 350, already with interests in so many other things and maintenance of their old games, churning out games yearly or forcefully plopping out a Half Life successor - disregarding the quality or living up to expectations and innovating.
In particularly, they've only just got their new engine out the door which, as with Source that came out with CS:Source, is not in the best shape this soon. The fact they put out a new engine, and already produced some content like the Aperture Science VR demo, certainly indicates an intent for making games. What a tragic shame it is that you don't like their recent output (even I don't like some of it), while clearly a whole lot of others do. Tough shit really. I'd rather they just make what ever they want, in their own time. Pandering to people wanting a new Half Life, even when it might not be what they want to do or can't find the right way to do it, would be a complete waste.
People have short memories. The gap between Half Life 1 and 2 was massive as well, with an entirely different game developed, cancelled then started from scratch again in that same window.
Valve beat to nobodies drum but their own. Nobody saw Portal coming either and surprise, it's considered one of the greatest franchises ever.
Valve beat to nobodies drum but their own. Nobody saw Portal coming either and surprise, it's considered one of the greatest franchises ever.
Quadraphonic
Member
They hired a new team to make that. Resources weren't directed or taken from elsewhere as much as you'd think.
GrayChild
Member
So does this mean that HL3 will be released 22 years after HL2?
8-Bit Sunset
Banned
Doctor Ironic
Member
Valve doesn't owe you Half-Life 3. You are entitled.
- worldspawn looks comparable from my memory of Hammer, with a few exceptions (VR compatibility settings)
- item_generic looks comparable, though maybe a bit more customizable?
This one is interesting to me. HL2 and Half-Life 2: Deathmatch already had a method to handle multiple players, Half-Life 3 has its own method? What for?
- prop_zipline
Interesting, especially because it specifies a use of a model and not an entity with dynamic length like the old rope entities. Used in a setpiece of a fixed size?
- shared_procedural_spawn_template_info
- shared_procedural_spawn_reuse_info
- info_procedural_spawn_template
- info_procedural_spawn_target
- info_procedural_spawn_manager
- info_procedural_spawn_subgroups
Suggests to me a variation of the L4D series' procedural spawning system, except controlled in Hammer entities and not in the nav meshes and scripts. Consistent with the way Counterstrike and HL2 differed in terms of navigation implementation, with HL2 using a node graph assembled in Hammer and Counterstrike using a navigation mesh assembled in-game.
A shared and non-shared procedural spawn template entity. Instanced enemies? Impossible for me to say. A flag for being on the ceiling? Barnacles? This is getting weird. Async spawning for a multiplayer environment. Engagement/reengagement failure conditions for NPCs. A ceiling flag (probably for ceiling entities such as barnacles and headcrabs). Spawn manager seems to attach a cost value to each spawn, somewhat like the old Antlion spawner's "pool". Burst spawning, "persist spawned template instances", "Avoid previous choices" (choices of spawn target), partial spawns, subgroups... this is a lot more involved than in HL2.
Antlions in HL2 had procedural spawner entities like this, but this could signal a move toward procedural spawners being used more increasingly for all sorts of NPCs. I've wanted the L4D procedural spawners in Half-Life for ages, and I would be pretty happy if I got my wish.
- shared_enable_disable
This? Complete mystery to me.
- func_procedural_spawn_volume
This is a really interesting entity, as it's a complete departure from the sort of procedural spawning L4D uses (which is tied to its nav mesh). It's a brush entity like ye olde func_brush or trigger_multiple that allows the spawning of NPCs anywhere within its bounds. Can move alongside a named entity (or NPC), which moves the spawn zone along with it.
- procspawn_var_volume
- procspawn_var_entity
- procspawn_constraint_volume_volume_distance
- procspawn_constraint_target_volume_distance
- procspawn_constraint_target_in_volume
- procspawn_constraint_target_near_entity
- procspawn_constraint_target_far_from_class
- procspawn_constraint_subgroup_distance
- procspawn_constraint_target_facing_player
- procspawn_modifier_rotation_traced
- procspawn_modifier_move_traced
- procspawn_modifier_2joint_traced
- procspawn_bias_linetoplayer
These are a little more opaque to me, perhaps entities for spawning and managing a volume at runtime (so not in the Hammer editor, in other words), and the accompanying constraint entities to customize it.
- npc_quest_citizen
Not an existing HL2 npc classname. It shares a large number of existing HL2 citizen NPC flags and properties, but a chunk of them do not exist in HL2:
- npc_hunter_invincible
Probably a special variant for setpieces or scripted sequences, with perhaps a more detailed model or less aggressive LODs.
- npc_turret_ceiling_pulse
New ceiling turret! No, I dont know what it does other than apparently ripping phys objects off of the ground, out of the air, or out of the players hands. Cute gravity gun counter?
- info_quest_dialog
Hooks into the quest citizens. Not much to glean other than it looking like an entity for setting up quest dialogue chains.
- prop_fixed
The new prop_static? Beats me.
- point_quest_goal
Point entity that hooks into the apparent quest system. Involves a quest marker beam and a disc on the ground. Nothing beyond go here as a goal as yet?
- logic_player_volume_tracker
???
Entities are ones that are going to be shared between Source 2 games, so seeing something here is not a confirmation that Half-Life 3 will necessarily make use of that functionality. My guess is a lot of these would also turn up in other Source 2 games.
Other than that, it should be noted that this FGD is massively incomplete. Whoever released it released only a small excerpt of it. Nothing on existing NPCs like headcrabs, zombies, Combine soldiers or vehicles, citizens, vortigaunts, alyx, nor weapons, nor the countless other entities whose functions would be carried over into Source 2. This is only a fraction of what Half-Life 3s full FGD would reveal.
- item_generic looks comparable, though maybe a bit more customizable?
This one is interesting to me. HL2 and Half-Life 2: Deathmatch already had a method to handle multiple players, Half-Life 3 has its own method? What for?
- prop_zipline
Interesting, especially because it specifies a use of a model and not an entity with dynamic length like the old rope entities. Used in a setpiece of a fixed size?
- shared_procedural_spawn_template_info
- shared_procedural_spawn_reuse_info
- info_procedural_spawn_template
- info_procedural_spawn_target
- info_procedural_spawn_manager
- info_procedural_spawn_subgroups
Suggests to me a variation of the L4D series' procedural spawning system, except controlled in Hammer entities and not in the nav meshes and scripts. Consistent with the way Counterstrike and HL2 differed in terms of navigation implementation, with HL2 using a node graph assembled in Hammer and Counterstrike using a navigation mesh assembled in-game.
A shared and non-shared procedural spawn template entity. Instanced enemies? Impossible for me to say. A flag for being on the ceiling? Barnacles? This is getting weird. Async spawning for a multiplayer environment. Engagement/reengagement failure conditions for NPCs. A ceiling flag (probably for ceiling entities such as barnacles and headcrabs). Spawn manager seems to attach a cost value to each spawn, somewhat like the old Antlion spawner's "pool". Burst spawning, "persist spawned template instances", "Avoid previous choices" (choices of spawn target), partial spawns, subgroups... this is a lot more involved than in HL2.
Antlions in HL2 had procedural spawner entities like this, but this could signal a move toward procedural spawners being used more increasingly for all sorts of NPCs. I've wanted the L4D procedural spawners in Half-Life for ages, and I would be pretty happy if I got my wish.
- shared_enable_disable
This? Complete mystery to me.
- func_procedural_spawn_volume
This is a really interesting entity, as it's a complete departure from the sort of procedural spawning L4D uses (which is tied to its nav mesh). It's a brush entity like ye olde func_brush or trigger_multiple that allows the spawning of NPCs anywhere within its bounds. Can move alongside a named entity (or NPC), which moves the spawn zone along with it.
- procspawn_var_volume
- procspawn_var_entity
- procspawn_constraint_volume_volume_distance
- procspawn_constraint_target_volume_distance
- procspawn_constraint_target_in_volume
- procspawn_constraint_target_near_entity
- procspawn_constraint_target_far_from_class
- procspawn_constraint_subgroup_distance
- procspawn_constraint_target_facing_player
- procspawn_modifier_rotation_traced
- procspawn_modifier_move_traced
- procspawn_modifier_2joint_traced
- procspawn_bias_linetoplayer
These are a little more opaque to me, perhaps entities for spawning and managing a volume at runtime (so not in the Hammer editor, in other words), and the accompanying constraint entities to customize it.
- npc_quest_citizen
Not an existing HL2 npc classname. It shares a large number of existing HL2 citizen NPC flags and properties, but a chunk of them do not exist in HL2:
Quest citizens do not take damage from any sources, are named in the editor, and have various flags for what looks like quest steps.
- npc_hunter_invincible
Probably a special variant for setpieces or scripted sequences, with perhaps a more detailed model or less aggressive LODs.
- npc_turret_ceiling_pulse
New ceiling turret! No, I dont know what it does other than apparently ripping phys objects off of the ground, out of the air, or out of the players hands. Cute gravity gun counter?
- info_quest_dialog
Hooks into the quest citizens. Not much to glean other than it looking like an entity for setting up quest dialogue chains.
- prop_fixed
The new prop_static? Beats me.
- point_quest_goal
Point entity that hooks into the apparent quest system. Involves a quest marker beam and a disc on the ground. Nothing beyond go here as a goal as yet?
- logic_player_volume_tracker
???
Entities are ones that are going to be shared between Source 2 games, so seeing something here is not a confirmation that Half-Life 3 will necessarily make use of that functionality. My guess is a lot of these would also turn up in other Source 2 games.
Other than that, it should be noted that this FGD is massively incomplete. Whoever released it released only a small excerpt of it. Nothing on existing NPCs like headcrabs, zombies, Combine soldiers or vehicles, citizens, vortigaunts, alyx, nor weapons, nor the countless other entities whose functions would be carried over into Source 2. This is only a fraction of what Half-Life 3s full FGD would reveal.
People have all rights to be entitled/angry/annoyed after the shitshow that was the whole episodes thing, starting from HL2EP2s ending up to them announcing HL2EP3 for release and then never actually delivering it.
They can be happy that happened back then and not nowadays, imagine them releasing a HL2 Season Pass and just not delivering half of it.
HL3 being open world makes the most sense tbh. At least to me now, HL2/EP1/EP2 feel extremely dated. Had EP3/HL3 released back then, sure it would of worked. Now? Not so much and I think Valve has realized this long ago which is why they had to abandon it and go the open world route it may currently be in.
I for one really want to see what they can do with an open world environment. I mean, EP2 kind of felt like that with some of the missions when you had to travel far distances with the car.
I for one really want to see what they can do with an open world environment. I mean, EP2 kind of felt like that with some of the missions when you had to travel far distances with the car.
Obliterator
Member
At some point I feel like one of these things is actually going to end up the real deal and we are all going to shit our pants in shock that its actually happening
Implying this is fake?
A sudden release would be amusing. Considering the timing (the day before the 8th year since release of EP2), it's probably more of a nod to the die hard folks just to say they actually do stuff with HL behind the scenes
Wowfunhappy
Member
Perhaps not, but they do kind of owe people an ending to HL2's story.
Call me entitled, but when I buy an episodic game, I do it under the assumption that all of the episodes will eventually be released.
(I've never actually played HL2, but my point still stands)
Fahzgoolin
Banned
Pretty sure Valve doesn't even need to do something revolutionary for HL3.
Just keep up the great pace and combat of Episode 2, improve the graphics, and BOOM--instant hit. That's all I want dangit.
Just keep up the great pace and combat of Episode 2, improve the graphics, and BOOM--instant hit. That's all I want dangit.
Obliterator
Member
Nah I'm not I just don't know what to think about it. It could just be a litte Easter Egg from Valve or some really old useless code or something.
I just feel like at some point something major will leak out from the game like a screenshot or video or something and we will all lose our shit. That or Valve one day will just release a trailer with no hype or anything. Like it will just drop
If you don't care, there's no hype to be met. Similarly most people are not "hyped" for it because they have no idea what it will be like or if / when it would be out or if it could live up to any lofty expectations they have had, unlike all the other "hyped" games.
When it eventually happens / is announced, it will be like Shenmue 3. People not really caring or having expectations, but just happy they get the thing regardless of if it lives up to their own expectations or not.
Nah, I want something innovative that really blows my mind. Playing both HL1 and HL2 when they originally released, were both just incredible. The episodes, not so much, but still great fun like the old expansions HL got.
They're not episodes like telltale games. Valve didn't just decide "well you paid for 3 episodes but we're only gonna give you 2, fuck off now"
The only developers that owe anyone anything are those that Kickstart their titles or release in Early Access, and spoiler alert, Half Life does not fit either of those criteria
Coffee Dog
Banned
"Nobody is owed Return of The Jedi. Just be glad they made Empire Strikes Back and stop whining."
If you make narrative art, promise a conclusion to a story, and leave if incomplete, people invested in that story will be frustrated and it makes you kind of a dick for going back on those promises. No, they don't have to not be dicks, but you can't surprise someone with an incomplete story and expect them to be cool with it. Half Life is incomplete.
Yup. It'll be called "h l 3" and totally live up to expectations.
Moon_frogger
Member
Sooooo half life 3 is a Dota expansion? Makes sense.
So the idea that HL3 was linked to SteamVR was kind of blown out of the water. So 'if' it's being worked on then there had to be some other reason for it.
IIRC Valve is kind of weird. HL3 is basically just sitting in some corner waiting for someone to get a team together and make it.
I'll bet the reason for it being shelved is totally stupid, but I really want to know what it was. It's rather fascinating to me, because they've never been completely clear on its status. Most I've heard is its not being worked on. There's never been, to my knowledge, anything definitive like "HL3 is cancelled". There's this aura of secrecy regarding it that Valve themselves maintained. They could have easily killed the interest in HL3 at any time but have always managed to stop just shy of doing that.
I want to know the reason, however stupid or simple, more than I want the actual game. Like a "tell-all" video starting from those early concepts of HL ep.3 to today. I don't mean this in the sense of "they owe people answers", I mean I am legit interested in the story.
IIRC Valve is kind of weird. HL3 is basically just sitting in some corner waiting for someone to get a team together and make it.
I'll bet the reason for it being shelved is totally stupid, but I really want to know what it was. It's rather fascinating to me, because they've never been completely clear on its status. Most I've heard is its not being worked on. There's never been, to my knowledge, anything definitive like "HL3 is cancelled". There's this aura of secrecy regarding it that Valve themselves maintained. They could have easily killed the interest in HL3 at any time but have always managed to stop just shy of doing that.
I want to know the reason, however stupid or simple, more than I want the actual game. Like a "tell-all" video starting from those early concepts of HL ep.3 to today. I don't mean this in the sense of "they owe people answers", I mean I am legit interested in the story.
None of the HL games have ever had a decent ending. All of them end on some huge cliffhanger like that. Guarantee Ep3/HL3 would do the same. You aren't going to get closure. Sorry. I wish they'd actually just end it in a satisfying way, too and then they can go off to do MOBAs and other stuff I don't care about forever.
God damn it, every time there's a tiny piece of information about HL3, I end up hating everything and everyone because of the public reaction to it. Everyone hypes this shit up like there's no tomorrow, for what, a leaked txt file that mentions HL3 and some possible content. What's worse is that most of the people getting hyped aren't really into the Half-Life series and even less people have actually played through HL2 Episode 2. Yet, they go on the internet yelling "OMGG HYPE HL3 CONFIRM" whenever HL3 is mentioned. I guess it's supposed to be funny? Funny internet meme? Gotta get on that meme guys!
I consider myself a pretty big fan of Half-Life. I've played through each of the games a million times and when I'm bored I still start up yet another playthrough of the first game, doesn't even take that long for me to finish it anymore since I know every nook and cranny of that damn game. I'd be bloody happy if Valve released Half-Life 3 as a book at this point, just to finish the story, but everyone on the Internet holds up HL3 like a holy relic that will save all of gaming with mindblowingly good graphics or ridiculously innovative gameplay. I don't give a crap about those. I used to, but having seen the end of Episode 2, I just want the damn story to continue. I want to find out what's on the Borealis. I want to find out how Gordon finally beats the Combine off of Earth. Let some other game bring us innovations, I just want the cliffhanger to be resolved, without ridiculous hype and unholy expectations. Give Valve time to do this shit. Let them make the game they want to make, not the game that 12-year-olds riding the "HL3 CONFIRMED" maymay want to see.
I consider myself a pretty big fan of Half-Life. I've played through each of the games a million times and when I'm bored I still start up yet another playthrough of the first game, doesn't even take that long for me to finish it anymore since I know every nook and cranny of that damn game. I'd be bloody happy if Valve released Half-Life 3 as a book at this point, just to finish the story, but everyone on the Internet holds up HL3 like a holy relic that will save all of gaming with mindblowingly good graphics or ridiculously innovative gameplay. I don't give a crap about those. I used to, but having seen the end of Episode 2, I just want the damn story to continue. I want to find out what's on the Borealis. I want to find out how Gordon finally beats the Combine off of Earth. Let some other game bring us innovations, I just want the cliffhanger to be resolved, without ridiculous hype and unholy expectations. Give Valve time to do this shit. Let them make the game they want to make, not the game that 12-year-olds riding the "HL3 CONFIRMED" maymay want to see.
Coffee Dog
Banned
I don't really think so. Half Life 1 and 2 end fairly well. Sure, they both end with time stopping and the g-man pulling gordon out, but the rest of the narrative is wrapped up. In Half Life 1, the aliens are dead and the main threat is dealt with, in HL2 Breen is gone, the resistance has triumphed, and once again the main threat is dealt with.
The episodes end with the main plot threads incomplete, because well, they're the first 2/3 of a single story.