Unfortunately PC gaming is the only place where you can expect significant push back from the players when developers gimp the experience. PC gamers will even go so far as to fix things themselves. On console you pretty much get what you get and wait for the sequel which may or may not fix the problems.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
What the fuck is up with the input lag in Grand Theft Auto V on PS4??
- Thread starter AtomicShroom
- Start date
Unfortunately PC gaming is the only place where you can expect significant push back from the players when developers gimp the experience. PC gamers will even go so far as to fix things themselves. On console you pretty much get what you get and wait for the sequel which may or may not fix the problems.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
This has been the case with all GTA games since they went 3D, but they ALWAYS get the pass because of the scope of the games. 9/10s No matter how buggy.
I have just always assumed that journalists are scared to be the ones to call them out on it. It's much easier to lower your head and nod in agreeance.
ChrisInCali
Member
I've had zero issues with GTA V on my PS4, played about 30 hours now. Sounds like *some* people are expecting the game to control like another game and not actually experiencing a technical issue.
I can also expect my girl to constantly cheat on me and I'll never run into relationship issues. It works, believe me.
Windom Earle
Member
Yes, I've been guilty of it too because I just love their stuff so much. Still, it is starting to annoy me now. Almost seems like a company policy in the way they operate.
Works fine on other games, its definitely not the controller.
Summer Haze
Banned
Wtf is this post? Seriously.
We don't want GTA V to control like any other game, we want it to control well. Full stop. And at the moment, because of the dead-zone/input delay issues, it simply doesn't.
You've had zero issues with it? Great! I'm genuinely jealous that you have no issue with the controls, but don't come in here and accuse people of making things up when there are multiple, irrefutable, absolutely undeniable examples of what the OP is talking about dotted throughout this thread.
Ugh...the lengths people go to defend Rockstar games is embarrassing. And that's coming from a huge Rockstar fanboy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He77KcLJN-o
Deadzone:
Input delay:
Input delay slowed down:
Remember, we point out these issues because we love the game, and want it to control better so we can enjoy it even more. We don't do it just for something to whine about.
Why are you ignoring the gifs?
Dead zone
.
I don't think this is accurately showing the deadzone, you can look at my video and see I never have to hold the stick as far over as you do without getting any input. Again, the movement speed at the edge of the deadzone is so slow that it is almost imperceptible. What you need to do is slowly move the stick from center out until it starts registering input. You're whipping the stick around too fast. If you actually look at your gif, it looks like it is registering the inputs as you see the sight/gun wobbling slightly as you move the stick, but you aren't holding the stick in position long enough for it to begin the full movement. The game is trying to move the view, but you are moving it so fast and the acceleration curve is such that it just doesn't have time to start moving. You can see in my video that I slowly move the stick from center all the way out.
What your gif is demonstrating is almost more the input lag and acceleration curve again.
Windom Earle
Member
Wtf is this post? Seriously.
We don't want GTA V to control like any other game, we want it to control well. Full stop. And at the moment, because of the dead-zone/input delay issues, it simply doesn't.
You've had zero issues with it? Great! I'm genuinely jealous that you have no issue with the controls, but don't come in here and accuse people of making things up when there are multiple, irrefutable, absolutely undeniable examples of what the OP is talking about dotted throughout this thread.
Ugh...the lengths people go to defend Rockstar games is embarrassing. And that's coming from a huge Rockstar fanboy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He77KcLJN-o
Deadzone:
Input delay:
Input delay slowed down:
It's the same type of posts you get in every technical thread.
In the topic about the missing tree animations you also have tons of people belittling the issue and making fun of it. Which is simply missing the point completely.
ALLseeingEYE
Member
That's the thing...you don't have to buy the PC version, the PS4 and X1 versions are already technically and artistically excellent. It's the fact that you expect things to be perfect that is the problem, and is apparently only a vocal minority's problem.
Like, I understand the aiming issue if that really does impede your fun of the game. Hopefully they fix that. Judging by the fact that the game has a 97 metacritic though...I think it's safe to say Rockstar did an amazing job on this port.
I don't fault you or others for not understanding how massively successful at a technical level Rockstar was at getting the game to the point it currently is in. But understand that game code has to be perfect...in order to work. One out of place letter, character or conflicting piece of code can bring the whole thing down. Now consider the monumental amount of things working and happening in this game.
Rockstar has funding like no other developer out there, and I guarantee they have numerous intensely smart, borderline genious-level programmers at work there. I'm sure they can address some of the minor issues, but sometimes sacrifices need to be made for the benefit of the overall game. If you can't deal with minor sacrifices or concessions to the technical performance of already excellent ports, I think it is entirely reasonable to suggest that you as an individual, have the option of buying a PC to improve those things.
The shit deadzones are a design result of the overall laginess of the game. If your game is slow as fuck you need huge deadzones to compensate for that.
The deadzones are NOT the issue. It's 30FPS and sub30FPS + long renderpipelines, so you end up with 130ms and more game lag + display lag + additional lag if framerate drops.
The deadzones are NOT the issue. It's 30FPS and sub30FPS + long renderpipelines, so you end up with 130ms and more game lag + display lag + additional lag if framerate drops.
I can't even tell anymore if this is sarcasm :|
BadAss2961
Member
For the most part, on PS4, the game only noticeably drops frames on one long street somewhere in the city... I don't remember the name.
Input lag is definitely a thing. Seemed really bad on PS3. On PS4 it was improved to the point that you should adapt to it after a short while.
Moving through tight corridors is pretty tough in GTA V because of the controls. First-person mode helps a lot here because of the quick turning. Same with aiming to an extent.
Precision aiming is really the only area where input lag is a problem. You fight the lag as well as the auto-aim. This is probably why the game has its auto-snap-to-enemy mechanics every time you hold the aim button in their general direction.
TLDR - It's not perfect, but people are crying over spilled milk.
Summer Haze
Banned
I haven't said this once. Where are you getting this from? I don't want perfect (what does that even mean?), I want competent. I want to be able to aim at enemies without spraying the air around them with bullets before I hit them. I want to not have to move my entire character to aim at an enemy instead of moving the right stick, like I do without issue in every other game I play.
Oh, Jesus fucking Christ. You can not be serious with this bullshit. I couldn't give a rats ass if the game had a 100 metacritic score, the controls are still flawed. And it doesn't surprise me in the slightest than no reviewers picked up on this. And no one is saying they didn't do an amazing job, they absolutely did, I fucking love this game (which is why I've put in so much work in this thread to try to bring this issue to light. I want the controls to be better so I can love it even more). Using metacritic scores as a way to try and say that we're just being a bunch of whiny little bitches is missing the point of this thread entirely.
Also, keep in mind that Skyrim received a 94 meta score. Ninety four.
Honestly, this just sounds like more apologist bullshit. We've already agreed that Rockstar did an amazing job with this game, especially after porting the much more complex last-gen code over to the new consoles, which leads us to believe they are more than competent in the technical department...which begs the question as to why the controls feel so damn sluggish? I see no reason why a team of people so talented created controls that don't reflect the rest of the game's quality.
What? You're saying that the game handles poorly because they needed to make sacrifices? If that were true, then they purposely made sacrifices that are detrimental to the gameplay. I don't buy that. They've made sacrifices, sure, we see that in the framerate drops when driving down-town at high speeds. Those are understandable. But I fail to see why they would intentionally make the controls sluggish and unresponsive as a sacrifice to other areas of the game.
ALLseeingEYE
Member
Hey man, you can be as upset and angry as you want. Feel free to vent, feel free to rampage or state your disappointment or disgust, that's cool. I am simply stating that I find it sad that some people get so wrapped up in what I would consider to be minor technical issues, to the point that it's impeding their enjoyment of an otherwise technically excellent game.
And that's just the way I personally look at life. I try to look for what matters most, what is truly special about the art or entertainment or that person that I met. I understand game development deeper than most, but I don't assume to know why Rockstar made the sacrifices they did. I can speculate, but it just seems like a losing battle to get too wrapped up about things that can possibly never be changed when there are so many awesome things on offer. In my opinion of course.
ALLseeingEYE
Member
Just to be clear, I did post that I understand the control issue problem. If you are only criticizing that point, all the power to ya, my original post wasn't directed at you.
As to why the controls are sluggish. Perhaps it's a design issue? I actually assume it might be tied to frame-rate, so it could be technical. Notice how choppy some games get when rotating the camera quickly. I am going to speculate that this control delay may be there to cover up camera turn stutters, but if not, hopefully they patch it.
I'm actually not sarcastic about that, funny enough. GTA V on PS4 was reviewed by 57 different critics, who apparently unanimously agree that the game is top tier. On one hand, people may state how corrupt reviews are, I get that, I used to be the one wearing the biggest tinfoil hat being an old Sega fan. But I actually read a very insightful piece from a data agency on Penny Arcade (I believe, I haven't been able to find the article in recent searches), who basically stated that it would be financially impossible for game companies to affect Metacritic in any meaningful way. Also, in my personal experience (feel free to debate this of course), technically poor games tend to be affected critically. If GTA V had poor visuals, or poor framerate, it would affect the metacritic. So my understanding is that at least critically, it's unanimously agreed to be a technically excellent game.
Fix The Scientist
Member
Gross. couldnt disagree more
I need to check how the X1 version stacks up when i get a chance. I've been running all First Person so far on this play through and I have found the shooting controls a bit tough, but manageable.
I have found the game much easier in first person when you don't stick to cover. You are much better off standing behind something and just popping out to shoot.
I have found the game much easier in first person when you don't stick to cover. You are much better off standing behind something and just popping out to shoot.
See, that is where your argumentation is really off.
Trees not moving is a minor technical issue. Less grass on XB1 is a minor technical issue. A framedrop here and there (!!!!) is a minor technical issue. Falling into nowhere or the game glitching out is a minor technical issue. Hell, even a crash I'd consider a minor technical issue.
Flawed, laggy controls however is not something minor. It's the way you, as a player, are communicating with the game. It's your virtual hand reaching into the gameworld and influencing things happening on screen. It is this kind of interaction which makes games different from any other medium out there, it's the reason why we became gamers - seeing that shit on screen and influence it, control it. If that is off, that's not minor. It's pretty big.
And that the game still became a 97 metascore just shows how off this industry is at the moment and how shit gaming journalism became. GTA Vs 97 metacritic score is the reason why monstrosities like Ass Creed Unity exist. It is a testament of an industry which does not understand their own product.
Windom Earle
Member
I know that I am more of a perfectionist about this stuff than others and that's fine. People simply have different standards. Though I do think you are a bit too apologetic. As you said R* has huge funds, so why not put in that last bit of polish to smooth things out. Rockstar is my favorite dev and GTA my favorite franchise, so I want things to be perfect to compliment the rest of the game as much as possible. Wish R* would be more open about this stuff, but our journalists obviously do not care about it.
I can't wait to see how things go with the PC version in January.
ffejeromdiks
Banned
"Playability" dont make me laugh, we're talking about a sub second delay that 90% of players will never notice.
There's no other game that attempts such a ambitious marriage of animation and physics simulation en masse, if you can't look past such a tiny delay in such a vast game with unlimited amounts of unscripted chaos than I can't help but feel sorry for you.
For claritys sake I'm talking about the input delay only, the deadzones are totally screwed up no doubt. The input delay is a design decision, not a fuckup.
Wrong. PS3 and 360 version had awful framerates, yet they got the same metascore. The Last of Us had a godawful framerate, to the point I just couldn't take it anymore and just ran through it, and not one review even mentioned it! Coming from the Uncharted series and since these games were fine for 30FPS games, I thought TLOU would be somewhat playable - how wrong I was. Why didn't one review warn me before I bought the game?
You need to consider that things out there happen which do not make sense and which are not good, even if these things are somewhat accepted by a majority. That doesn't make them right or wise. Rockstar always was a company with horrible priorities when it came to game design and take away the violence and the relatively freedom in their games, heavily supported by marketing and reviews, not much is left. Their games were always cool and their writing was better than most other games. Still, when it comes to gameplay, GTA is mediocre at best. You won't read that in any review. Why?
Tangoownage
Member
I had no issues with gta until I recently started playing plants vs zombies ( thnx psx/ea), now I can't play gta, it feels so heavy and unresponsive.
I know some of this is because of 60fps vs 30fps,but I still play destiny just fine.
I know some of this is because of 60fps vs 30fps,but I still play destiny just fine.
martino
Member
Was about to post something like this.
(and it is a big part of why 60>30 no matter what more that anything else but not let derail the thread with this)
ALLseeingEYE
Member
As I mentioned in my previous posts, I do sympathize with people having control issues. While I do personally consider this issue minor, since I'm having an awesome time with the game in the current 15 hours I've spent playing, the way Rockstar prioritizes animation over playability sometimes is a debatable choice.
As for metacritic, see my post above. I know it's not popular to say so, but Metacritic is actually a good barometer for critical opinion. As stated, from the research I've seen, it's basically impossible for a company to 'buy' Metacritic scores in any meaningful way. Also, although I'd agree that a lot of games journalism is poor, I think it's a bit short sighted to generalize the entire industry like that. There are some great writers and great thinkers on the journalistic side of this industry as well as the bad.
Also, AC Unity got an appropriate Metacritic score from my understanding. 72-74 is nothing to gloat about for such a high profile release.
I understand where you're coming from there. Like, being a perfectionist isn't a bad trait, you do totally sound like a PC gamer at heart though.
Like, I have no idea why they couldn't improve the framerate or AA even more. But regardless of funds, there are still limits. Games will always be imperfect, although perhaps less so if developers choose safe and constrictive designs (Japanese games are good at this). But that's also why I love Rockstar/ GTA, because it's the exact opposite of that constrictive and safe design.
But yeah, I agree that I can't wait for the PC version. It just sucks it didn't release at the same time. I know I should have waited, but I couldn't help grabbing this.
GavinUK86
Member
After checking myself you're correct, it does have a huge deadzone but only in first-person not in third. I'm guessing it's the way Rockstar applied the first-person perspective. In regular view there is hardly any deadzone.
Doesn't bother me too much as GTA is a third-person game and the first-person camera is merely a novelty but it is odd.
ThatsMytrunks
Member
Y'know, I've been wondering the same thing. I just figured they were trying to convey a lot of weight and realism in movement, but it does seem like maybe there's a little bit of lag in input response.
I think it's a design choice, though. A bad one, but a choice.
I think it's a design choice, though. A bad one, but a choice.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
The shooting in GTA leaves much to be desired as is. I just use the snap aim.
Control responsiveness is one of the #1 critical parts of any game. You can throw the resolution out of the window if the controls are poor. And people are right, Rockstar somehow got a free pass for it.
antisoulless
Banned
There is a bit of am issue with deadzones and input lag. These may hopefully be. Fixed in a patch.
PS4, and I've been playing it a lot lately, and I've noticed ZERO lag while playing (a bit of a controller "dead-zone" when in first-person though) - if anything, I've found the controls have been pretty smooth and responsive, more so than they were on the PS3. Though I haven't played it online yet.
ALLseeingEYE
Member
The PS3/360 versions of GTA V, regardless of framerate, were still massive technical achievements on those platforms. I assume this is why it didn't affect Metacritic to a large degree. I assume the same with Last of Us, since it's been lauded over and over again for its beauty and technical achievements. I have only played the PS4 version which has an excellent framerate though, so I can't comment on PS3.
I love Rockstar as a developer, for the record. I agree that some of their games have been technical messes in the past, but I've always appreciated their ambition. As for gameplay, I think that's an interesting issue. Rockstar games have such a huge variety of gameplay styles. Of course, it would be awesome if every aspect of those styles were tighter. Personally, I'm cool with it because I appreciate the scope. I also don't disagree that some of the components were weak (melee in GTA IV was awful).
I agree of course that control is top priority. I do however feel that GTA V's controls overall are quite good. Like, I think it's fighting the good fight to push Rockstar to reduce latency, but I also think the OP's statement of issues is hyperbolic. I can drive around really well, I'm not crashing into things due to controls, and I'm not having much issue killing fools or navigating, even if it is a bit sluggish.
A lot of games play just fine at 30, but the problem here seems to be the speed of movement at the edge of the deadzone, as well as several frames of input lag. I actually switched to a noob-friendly aiming mode when I worked my way through the story. Haven't played it since, although that has more to do with me being tired of GTA's brand of low-brow social satire than the controls.
BigEvilTurtle
Banned
It sucks gigantic cock and should stop being tolerated.
I really don't believe reviewers spend much time with ports. Call me jaded or whatever, but I half assume the typical review process for this particular release of GTA V was confirming that it boots and has a certain resolution, if that, and then turning it in. It's the same game, right? Would you really give it another 20 hours+ to play through the minimal main story content? How would a review site justify letting you do that, financially?
Tainted
Member
What we need is a 3rd person gif comparison of the dead zone & input lag from GTAIV and GTAV
I guarantee you it is exactly the same. This issue is not unique to GTAV and certainly not unique to the PS4
I know the lag is more noticeable in first person mode....but the game was not magically going to have 1:1 input to be more like CoD:AW & FC4.
It's still a 3rd person game and this first person mode is essentially a camera mounted to a 3rd person character and the same control scheme applied from 3rd person
I guarantee you it is exactly the same. This issue is not unique to GTAV and certainly not unique to the PS4
I know the lag is more noticeable in first person mode....but the game was not magically going to have 1:1 input to be more like CoD:AW & FC4.
It's still a 3rd person game and this first person mode is essentially a camera mounted to a 3rd person character and the same control scheme applied from 3rd person
ALLseeingEYE
Member
I understand where you're coming from with that, but I would wager that you are probably being too paranoid overall. I really do dislike that game journalists don't always spend a deep amount of time with all the games they review, or aren't always honest about the time they do spend, but I can only speak from personal experience. I would say that the ones who don't do their job properly tend to stick out like a sore thumb.
Digital foundry also wrote a very positive article on the technical aspects of both the PS4 and X1 ports.
Just saw the gifs and the videos in the previous pages and all I have to say is wow...not a surprise the default control scheme has that ridiculous auto-aim enabled.
BTW was RDR that bad as well? I don't remember it being so laggy but I've never touched the game since I finished it back in 2010.
BTW was RDR that bad as well? I don't remember it being so laggy but I've never touched the game since I finished it back in 2010.
I remember RDR still having input lag but the controls were a vast improvement over GTAIV. I actually enjoyed the shooting in that game. Lord knows how they went backwarrds from RDR and Max Payne with their flagship franchise.
Tainted
Member
If Rock* had remastered RDR and added a first person mode....I guarantee a similar thread would have popped up
Crazypanda_85
Member
I had issues with the controls as well and just returned it to GS (I bought a used copy). I might give it another chance in the future and see if it was my settings.
Grinchy
Banned
Yeah this has been incredibly painful.
NullPointer
Member
Why would there only be lag on the aiming input and not the movement input? And why then add a huge deadzone and slather crazy acceleration on top?