If true, that might explain why I'm not really noticing any change. I'm not saying the lag isn't there, I'm just saying that might explain why I'm apparently used to it already. I had the Xbox 360 version and then went to the PlayStation 4 version. Was this really not as big of an issue only on the PS3?
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What the fuck is up with the input lag in Grand Theft Auto V on PS4??
- Thread starter AtomicShroom
- Start date
If true, that might explain why I'm not really noticing any change. I'm not saying the lag isn't there, I'm just saying that might explain why I'm apparently used to it already. I had the Xbox 360 version and then went to the PlayStation 4 version. Was this really not as big of an issue only on the PS3?
Me_Marcadet
Member
Testing without the ps3 version as a point of reference with the same setup is useless.
Tainted
Member
It makes me think the majority of people complaining about this issue are playing it for the first time on nextgen...or it is just more noticeable in FP mode.
The issue has always been there though
Wouldn't kill you to go back a page.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
There's no reason to deny it. Even the people that can't notice the current lag (consciously) would benefit from a fix. The controls would feel tighter. It would be more fun to aim in first person. Or at least it couldn't hurt. It can be a benefit to have a choosier audience advocate for on your behalf.
Imagine a farm that has pigs that will eat anything, and picky cats that will only dine on the finest foods. Who is going to eat better in that scenario? Well, it's a trick question, because the farmer feeds the cats to the pigs due to budget concerns. The moral of the story is that we live in a capricious and uncaring universe. But maybe this story will have a happier ending. It's not going to be deniable any more when the numbers come out.
Decepticon
Neo Member
Never had this issue with the 360?
Coolio McAwesome
Member
Nope. It's a fundamental flaw. Input lag like what has been demonstrated in his thread is unacceptable, and it baffles me that there are so many apologists. It doesn't only affect first-person mode as your post suggest, and it's not "just" a dead-zone issue as many others have. The input lag is noticeable in both first and third-person mode and affects button presses as well as stick movement. Not only are the controls fundamentally flawed, but they represent a noticeable step backwards from the previous gen. Unacceptable.
Me_Marcadet
Member
If you read the last page you'll see that I made a video showing the lag. I'm talking about the 360 and One video without the ps3 version as a point of reference. Those videos are useless because the input lag could be coming from the setup and not the game.
We need video of the Xbox versions next to the ps3 one with the same setup to evaluate how much they effectively lag.
The only thing we proved is that the ps4 version ha more input lag than the ps3 one.
Edit: I would add to the previous post that the lag affects driving too. The ps3 version feels way more responsive while driving.
The game on ps4 could highly benefit from an upgrade to ps3 level of input lag.
I hope we'll get some answer from Rockstar and know why there so much lag.
The game seems to have been rushed. They still don't have fixed the turbo upgrade bug. Only thing we want to know is if they are working on a solution.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
lmao
That's kind of an odd analogy. I think it might be more apropos to liken the OP to Churchill, the apologists to Chamberlain, and R* to a contemporary of both men: Temujin, Supreme Khan of the Mongol Empire.
KyanMehwulfe
Member
in the PS3 vs PS4 video, the Look Back test isn't predominantly showing input lag, it's showing the delay timer... Look Back isn't Press R3. Look Back is Hold R3... if you fully press R3 in, fully, but instantly let it go, you don't Look Back. You have to Hold R3, so the 'delay' isn't input lag but the Hold delay.
also, most of the videos start from a neutral button position so they're not showing just input lag or input reaction time... in GTA V, pressing R2 is not actually Shoot... it's Aim. Half-Press R2 is Aim, Shoot is Full-Press R2. Also, R2 has a small deadzone, and obviously L3 or R3 have significant deadzones. so when you quickly fully press R2, most of that physical movement is not actually Shoot... it's a deadzone or Aim. You're not even pressing Shoot until the button is over half-pressed.
I think the far bigger problem than any input delay that hurts free aiming are the stick deadzones and aiming acceleration being rather sudden and fast once you get past the large deadzone... which is why aiming in GTA V can be rather jerky, the large input 'free' zones (which is not input lag) can can lead to a lot of initial over-compensation or under-compensation
also, most of the videos start from a neutral button position so they're not showing just input lag or input reaction time... in GTA V, pressing R2 is not actually Shoot... it's Aim. Half-Press R2 is Aim, Shoot is Full-Press R2. Also, R2 has a small deadzone, and obviously L3 or R3 have significant deadzones. so when you quickly fully press R2, most of that physical movement is not actually Shoot... it's a deadzone or Aim. You're not even pressing Shoot until the button is over half-pressed.
I think the far bigger problem than any input delay that hurts free aiming are the stick deadzones and aiming acceleration being rather sudden and fast once you get past the large deadzone... which is why aiming in GTA V can be rather jerky, the large input 'free' zones (which is not input lag) can can lead to a lot of initial over-compensation or under-compensation
Summer Haze
Banned
Just woke up, haven't received a reply from DF or Rockstar Support. 
Oh yeah, you're right. I forgot about him. I'll send him a PM now.
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Also, I think the PS3 vs PS4 video should be added to the OP.
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I've messaged dark10x and let him know what's up/asked him if he would be so kind as to personally look into it.
Thanks for this. This should be added to the OP too.
Oh yeah, you're right. I forgot about him. I'll send him a PM now.
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Also, I think the PS3 vs PS4 video should be added to the OP.
----------------------
I've messaged dark10x and let him know what's up/asked him if he would be so kind as to personally look into it.
Thanks for this. This should be added to the OP too.
KyanMehwulfe
Member
did a few videos trying to isolate any input lag from the deadzone or half-press 'zones'
it feels more pronounced aiming in first-person than other areas
there's very little delay in shooting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBoz1GyHOLo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNclFMVxYTc
but there's a bit more in third-person aiming
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDB0vu-Hlqk (put it in slow-mo and just keep pressing at
but it's most noticeable in first-person with iron sights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBDNS65xuS4
all of these have half-pressed buttons.... so i'm holding it as close to the actual end of the deadzone as possible, so no neutral starts. to try isolate just the input lag.
it feels more pronounced aiming in first-person than other areas
there's very little delay in shooting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBoz1GyHOLo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNclFMVxYTc
but there's a bit more in third-person aiming
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDB0vu-Hlqk (put it in slow-mo and just keep pressing at
but it's most noticeable in first-person with iron sights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBDNS65xuS4
all of these have half-pressed buttons.... so i'm holding it as close to the actual end of the deadzone as possible, so no neutral starts. to try isolate just the input lag.
Summer Haze
Banned
Thanks for this! You should contact Rockstar Support directly like I have and show them this.
Same goes to everyone else. Use the evidence in this thread if you don't have your own. Just bombard them with the same evidence and they will have to address it!
Oh, and some of the replies I've been getting on the GTA forums are unbelievable. People asking me if this is my first GTA, telling me the controls work as intended, telling me to go and play other games if I want 1:1 controls (dat strawmen argument), and throwing general passive aggressive comments and apologist bullshit my way. It's almost as if they don't want Rockstar to fix it.
Sorry, my bad.
AtomicShroom
Member
Much like some TV review sites have started doing, I wish that videogame review sites (and Digital Foundry at the very least) would start including the input lag measurement of games as part of its technical specs, and would rate them accordingly. It's not like this is a subjective stat... it's totally objective, fully measurable and quantifiable, down to the millisecond.
Summer Haze
Banned
I agree, it's something that gets overlooked these days, when in reality, it's something that affects games more than most things that do get mentioned.
Also, would you mind adding the PS3 vs PS4 comparison video to the OP?
mickcenary
Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't KZ2 have input lag?
See, to me, that game controlled like a dream (albeit with the caveat that a decent amount of time be put into learning its nuances). Once it clicked, I found myself not having to fight with the game's controls at all, which is certainly the opposite to what I've experienced with GTA. I actually feel that it's more or less impossible for GTA to click in this sense.
Surely there's more at play than just input lag; or was the amount present in KZ2 negligible in comparison?
See, to me, that game controlled like a dream (albeit with the caveat that a decent amount of time be put into learning its nuances). Once it clicked, I found myself not having to fight with the game's controls at all, which is certainly the opposite to what I've experienced with GTA. I actually feel that it's more or less impossible for GTA to click in this sense.
Surely there's more at play than just input lag; or was the amount present in KZ2 negligible in comparison?
Summer Haze
Banned
I'd say it's a mixture of input delay, a large dead-zone, and movement acceleration.
AtomicShroom
Member
Done!
Summer Haze
Banned
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
It's because the game itself is far down the list of priorities.
AtomicShroom
Member
The Xbox 360 version had the same input lag as well. I posted up a vid a few days ago
http://youtu.be/N44yTe0Vu9g
Watch at 0.25x speed (even though it's quite obvious at normal speed as well)
No one is debating whether the previous gen versions had input lag. They did. What we're debating is that the new-gen versions have even way MORE input lag. So without direct comparison to the Xbox One version, your post is rather useless.
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
This is exactly what it is... and it's super gross. That's about the worst possible combination of factors. Not hyperbole. I want to like GTA.
Summer Haze
Banned
There's a guy on the GTA forums who has the 'I don't notice thing, so it must only be affecting a small amount of people' mentality. It's incredibly frustrating. I keep asking him to provide evidence that he isn't experiencing the issue, but all I get in reply is "Fact is, not everyone is experiencing this issue" and "you are talking from your ass".
Sigh...It's sad how defensive and aggressive people get when others point out flaws in their favourite games and bring them to light in the hope that they get fixed. How is bringing these issues to light and asking them to be addressed anything but a good thing for everyone?
Sigh...It's sad how defensive and aggressive people get when others point out flaws in their favourite games and bring them to light in the hope that they get fixed. How is bringing these issues to light and asking them to be addressed anything but a good thing for everyone?
Summer Haze
Banned
Mike (Rockstar Support) replied back to me just now and said the following:
Looks like the PS3 vs PS4 video finally convinced him that this is a real issue, and not something to do with my controller. XD
I hope we don't have to wait too long for a reply.
Looks like the PS3 vs PS4 video finally convinced him that this is a real issue, and not something to do with my controller. XD
I hope we don't have to wait too long for a reply.
HundredEyeMonk
Member
How the heck are you not noticing that latency....
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
There are some people that don't notice drops in framerate. Or screen tearing. There are people on gaf who see two "TPS" and cannot differentiate based on their mechanics. They will make the case the games are basically the same even though they are very different, just because the view is similar (when even that is often quite different!).
Idk... I guess some folks just lack a perceptiveness (in these particular instances) or they aren't bothered by them. You know, whatever. I don't know. It's pretty annoying though. Especially when they want to carry the flag into battle to stop any criticism.
GTA analog settings/controls are shit on PS4 especially in FPV. Anyone who says otherwise is perfectly free to think that, but their opinion is of little value to me, since it seems like they lack the ability to evaluate game controls to any degree that would be useful to me.
Like asking for a wine recommendation from someone who drinks Arbor Mist and says "It's fine". This is kind of a douchey post but the analog controls in GTA really are that bad, and this thread is annoying me.
AtomicShroom
Member
At this point I'm wondering if some of these people are not just Rockstar-hired astroturfers whose job is to be this guy:
Yaphett Kotto
Member
Mike (Rockstar Support) replied back to me just now and said the following:
Looks like the PS3 vs PS4 video finally convinced him that this is a real issue, and not something to do with my controller. XD
I hope we don't have to wait too long for a reply.
You are our heroes, fren.
Summer Haze
Banned
Me_Marcadet
Member
Those kind of posts are why some people keep telling everything is fine.
There are people like us, who love the game and want an even better experience, and there are people who doesn't care about the game and will just use this to bash Rockstar and GTA.
Sorry to digress, I just wanted to put some perspective to the defensive response of some fans.
I'll try to do another comparison video to show the input lag while driving. It bothers me even more than the on foot lag.
There's a learning curve. It's not really that difficult to Gold medal every challenge on the firing range. It just takes a lot of practice.
But you can blame the game if it really makes you feel better about yourself.
The trick to the firing range is figuring out which gun is best for each challenge more so than actually being able to aim properly. You just seem unrealistically impatient. I had a much easier time getting Gold on the PS4 version than the 360 version, even.
Input lag, input lag, input lag, the controls are undeniably a bit floaty and unresponsive, but you shouldn't use that as an excuse for sucking at the game. It's more than playable.
cormack12
Gold Member
The firing range is horrific. Tracking the targets with the jerky movement is awful. Yes, you can probably get gold after doing it for a few tries but the point is it affects the whole game, not just the range. If anyone can't see the problems from the videos, or feel the issue in game, then I wonder how they don't fall down more.
There is no 'learning curve'. There is a gimped acceleration curve.
Also, no-one is saying the game is unplayable, they are saying the controls sour the experience. Also, this sentence:
Oxymoron much? Not that difficult, but just takes a buttload of practice (you actually mean compensation and an element of luck).
The practice and learning curve are for understanding which gun is right for which challenge, whether you should strafe or stand in place, etc. It's not luck, but yeah, a bit of compensation.
There's a definitely a bit of trial and error to it. Usually you realize you were using the wrong gun and then it just "clicks".
If someone gets to the point of "rage" over the firing range, they're doing it wrong, straight up.
AtomicShroom
Member
Man someone needs to take a game like Super Mario Bros. 3, add 500+ms of input lag to it, and have all the people in this thread who say to "get used to it" to play that version instead. I'd like to see their faces.
Reckless Onion
Member
I would love this game if it controlled like say destiny in 3th person, also 30fps but that's like the most responsive 30fps game i've played.
Sadly like it is now, i've stopped playing.
Sadly like it is now, i've stopped playing.
Even though I do notice the increased input lag I do find myself being better at driving and just about everything except for tight aim when shooting compared to when I was playing on PS3. It's nowhere near game-breaking. It's just a kind of annoying like the aiming in Killzone 2 on PS3.
I hope it can somehow be fixed though, but someting tells me it might be the frame-time that's been decreased for a more stable performance.
I hope it can somehow be fixed though, but someting tells me it might be the frame-time that's been decreased for a more stable performance.
AuthenticM
Member
Mike (Rockstar Support) replied back to me just now and said the following:
Looks like the PS3 vs PS4 video finally convinced him that this is a real issue, and not something to do with my controller. XD
I hope we don't have to wait too long for a reply.
Thanks a lot for doing this. I hope they patch this nonsense or else they are not getting my money.
Summer Haze
Banned
No problem. I was playing the online earlier today and had a really hard time aiming at enemies, and we were doing a really difficult timed mission, I felt like a liability, so I left the game. :/
My aiming is fine most of the time because I compensate for the bad controls, but sometimes, when my aiming is off, the shitty controls only exacerbates my shitty performance.
Funnily enough, though, I can zip in and out of traffic on my motorbike with pin-point precision...
BigEvilTurtle
Banned
Driving feels more responsive than aiming, funnily enough. Thanks again for all the work to inform R*. Seriously, you're hopefully doing everyone a favor.
Honestly (and not to say there isn't a problem in aiming, because there is) I noticed the lag/dead zone/whatever first while driving on the PS4 version. The small corrections I'd make on the PS3 version didn't seem to do much of anything. It sucks when going through traffic because I have to over-correct every time I intend to nudge the stick to just barely miss other cars.
AtomicShroom
Member
Funnily enough I first noticed the input lag while driving in the first Franklin and Lamar mission. I just kept crashing into just about anything and could never avoid objects and cars on time when I meant to. It just didn't feel right. It didn't feel like I remembered from the PS3 version. Then I just stopped and started messing with the controls, paying attention to the input lag... and oh god.
Extra Sauce
Member
Can anyone confirm if the problem becomes worse over time? I played through the whole game and I want to say that it wasn't until later that controls got unresponsive to the point of causing me to crash my car.
