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What's up with the 3DS?

Freezie KO said:
The slight uptick in sales is due to the fact that software is coming out, the same reason any video game hardware sells.

Nintendo's not "doomed," but they blew what should've been a sure thing - the launch of the follow-up to the DS.

Couldn't agree more. Now things have calmed down over there and there is a steady stream of games, and advertising, sales will slowly improve.

Didn't I read somewhere there is a new colour in Japan now? Red? I bet even that will give sales a bit of a boost.
 

Nessus

Member
Not sure how Nintendo made such a mistake, but it's $50 too much, and has no major games.

I know I'll get one for Mario 3D (I'd usually list Resident Evil Revelations here, but with the recent cancellations I really hope that game doesn't get canceled/moved to another system).

Finally got a chance to play with one in person last week, the hardware looks a lot better in person than it does in photos. I really like the way the black one looks.
 
Lord Error said:
Welp, I've finally got to try 3DS. I have to say that the 3D aspect of the handheld was a lot, lot more finicky than I ever thought it would be. First thing I noticed was how I felt like I was watching one of those cross-eyed stereograms when the depth slider was pushed all the way up, like i literally had to cross my eyes a bit to see picture clearly. This was remedied by moving the slider half way down, but the depth effect lessened thanks to that, of course.

Worse was how perfectly straight I had to hold the screen towards my eyes to get the best possible image. I really thought this was not an issue with 3DS, but it sure as hell is. Even the tiniest tilt left or right was enough to cause the image to lose brightness at first, and just slightly more was enough to make the image go completely haywire and screw with my brain, literally. I thought this was something that in the heat of the moment could get you killed in the game as if you push the buttons quickly the handheld can pivot a bit in your hands. Of course, putting it back to original straight position brings image back, but the thing is, people tend to overcompensate when something freaky like this happens so I shifted it too much to the other side at first, which made the brain confusion even worse... Funnily enough I remembered Amirox saying his brother died in the game precisely for this reason. I thought he was exaggerating back then, but now I can honestly see something like that happening very easily. I felt like I had to be like some perfectly still robot to play this, but people are usually not like that when they play games.

Bottomline is, I have to wonder how many people tried the 3DS and after the initial seconds of enthusiasm, experienced everything I did, and left feeling a bit bummed about it.

I did. Already tried the console with 3 different games in 3 different places, I still think the 3D effect is not worth it and more troublesome than anything.
 

freddy

Banned
electroplankton said:
Judging a console lifetime performance from its first months is quite stupid in my opinion.
Not when you're trying to influence people one way or another it's not.
 

Cromat

Member
3DS and Vita have no place in the world of smartphones.
Both of them failing is both inevitable and ultimately positive.
 

SmokyDave

Member
electroplankton said:
Judging a console lifetime performance from its first months is quite stupid in my opinion.
Judging the first few months performance from the first few months performance is fine however. Reasonable projections based on available information shouldn't ruffle your feathers either.
 

Duxxy3

Member
Cromat said:
3DS and Vita have no place in the world of smartphones.
Both of them failing is both inevitable and ultimately positive.

If that's the future of gaming... i'm out.
 
SmokyDave said:
Judging the first few months performance from the first few months performance is fine however. Reasonable projections based on available information shouldn't ruffle your feathers either.

Then compare to other systems performance, in terms of sales and releases, but obviously considering that 3DS is a handheld device and still have a strong internal competitor (DS) with one of the most important Nintendo games of the last years in commercial terms released the same month (Pokémon Black/White).
I'm highly doubtful about DS, GBA, PS2 performance the first months, and also concerning games they had. PS2 got Final Fantasy X and Gran Turismo 4 the first year? No. But Nintendo is bringing Mario and Mario Kart (which may be compared in terms of importance to the former) during the first year, with a lot of the important releases (Zelda, Star Fox, Kid Icarus, Pokémon Rumble). Third parties are always sceptical on Nintendo platform, but 3DS already has brands that typical Nintendo consoles didn't see for years (in the best scenario).


Mael said:
It worked for the virtual boy...

Which sold way less than 3DS and didn't have so many games announced for it.
 
Cromat said:
3DS and Vita have no place in the world of smartphones.
Both of them failing is both inevitable and ultimately positive.

If my iPhone gets buttons and can play games for an additional 9 hours of cross-country US travel without any extra battery drain, then count me in!

Oh yeah, and Nintendo has to develop software for it.
 

Mael

Member
electroplankton said:
Which sold way less than 3DS and didn't have so many games announced for it.

It certainly has more support which would explain it relatively better performance.
 
Mael said:
It certainly has more support which would explain it relatively better performance.

And Nintendo bringing all its important brands at the peak of popularity; moreover, VB had very bad word of mouth because of gameplay, it has just two colours and so on. No way a comparison between them will work.
 

Takao

Banned
Cromat said:
3DS and Vita have no place in the world of smartphones.
Both of them failing is both inevitable and ultimately positive.

272909002.gif
 

BowieZ

Banned
Nessus said:
Not sure how Nintendo made such a mistake, but it's $50 too much, and has no major games.

I know I'll get one for Mario 3D
lol

mistake

lol

Nintendo knows what it's doing.
 
electroplankton said:
VB had very bad word of mouth because of gameplay, it has just two colours and so on. No way a comparison between them will work.

Gameplay? The VB games were fun.

(and the 3D was better)
 

Cromat

Member
madmaxx350 said:
huh? so we shouldn't have dedicated handheld devices?

Not for the mass-market. If these devices fail, the quality titles they receive would end up on the far more practical and affordable smartphones.

FoxSpirit said:
Do you have a smartphone?

Why yes, yes I do.
 

SmokyDave

Member
electroplankton said:
Then compare to other systems performance, in terms of sales and releases.....
I don't know what to compare it to, the market has changed. Other handheld launches haven't faced the external threat that the 3DS and Vita face. The Vita seems better prepared to deal with the new marketplace whereas the 3DS looks like it may struggle with its expensive-ass games, limited DD for games and limited online infrastructure. When the DS launched it was fresh & new, almost intimidatingly so. The 3DS doesn't have that novelty sheen.


Freezie KO said:
If my iPhone gets buttons and can play games for an additional 9 hours of cross-country US travel without any extra battery drain, then count me in!

Oh yeah, and Nintendo has to develop software for it.
What handheld are you getting a 9 hour battery life from?
 
Cromat said:
Not for the mass-market. If these devices fail, the quality titles they receive would end up on the far more practical and affordable smartphones.

This is how economics doesn't work:

$40 titles are developed for handhelds.
Handhelds fail.
$40 titles are developed for smartphones, now priced at $5-15.
Games flourish and have the same development budgets.

SmokyDave said:
What handheld are you getting a 9 hour battery life from?

The comment was in response to no longer having dedicated handhelds. So if I carry two dedicated handhelds with me on a flight, I can have 9 more hours of gaming. I guess I could carry around another phone for gaming though. I just need buttons. And better games.
 
SmokyDave said:
I don't know what to compare it to, the market has changed. Other handheld launches haven't faced the external threat that the 3DS and Vita face. The Vita seems better prepared to deal with the new marketplace whereas the 3DS looks like it may struggle with its expensive-ass games, limited DD for games and limited online infrastructure. When the DS launched it was fresh & new, almost intimidatingly so. The 3DS doesn't have that novelty sheen.



What handheld are you getting a 9 hour battery life from?

GBC?
 

Takao

Banned
Mojo said:
Maybe most people don't want to pay US$40/AU$60 for handheld games anymore

I'll pay $40 for very niche games, or big budget handheld games. I won't pay $40 for Pokemon Rumble, or Cartoon Network: Punch Time Explosion.
 

FoxSpirit

Junior Member
Cromat said:
Not for the mass-market. If these devices fail, the quality titles they receive would end up on the far more practical and affordable smartphones.

Why yes, yes I do.

And you never found controls, the tactile response and feel of driect connectivity missing?

And I'm not talking about games like Nano Panda (which is awesome).
 
SmokyDave said:
I don't know what to compare it to, the market has changed. Other handheld launches haven't faced the external threat that the 3DS and Vita face. The Vita seems better prepared to deal with the new marketplace whereas the 3DS looks like it may struggle with its expensive-ass games, limited DD for games and limited online infrastructure. When the DS launched it was fresh & new, almost intimidatingly so. The 3DS doesn't have that novelty sheen.

3DS has 3D, which is a kind of status now; the entertainment sector as a whole is pushing on this direction (Sony as well). And still has two screen, which no other device to play has.

Anyway, 3DS has the best first year line-up for a Nintendo console to date (in commercial terms, but also in terms of quantity and variety), and this is out of question. There has been a break in summer, but from September things will improve as hell.


Takao said:
I'll pay $40 for very niche games, or big budget handheld games. I won't pay $40 for Pokemon Rumble, or Cartoon Network: Punch Time Explosion.

Parents will do for their children, since they're still buying Imagine and Cooking Mama on DS.
 

Cyntec

Member
SmokyDave said:
I don't know what to compare it to, the market has changed. Other handheld launches haven't faced the external threat that the 3DS and Vita face. The Vita seems better prepared to deal with the new marketplace whereas the 3DS looks like it may struggle with its expensive-ass games, limited DD for games and limited online infrastructure. When the DS launched it was fresh & new, almost intimidatingly so. The 3DS doesn't have that novelty sheen.



What handheld are you getting a 9 hour battery life from?

Game Boy (DMG)
Game Boy Pocket
Nintendo DS lite
Game Gear... no, just kidding.
 

herod

Member
Freezie KO said:
This is how economics doesn't work:

$40 titles are developed for handhelds.
Handhelds fail.
$40 titles are developed for smartphones, now priced at $5-15.
Games flourish and have the same development budgets.



The comment was in response to no longer having dedicated handhelds. So if I carry two dedicated handhelds with me on a flight, I can have 9 more hours of gaming. I guess I could carry around another phone for gaming though. I just need buttons. And better games.

The basic economics are entirely different. Smartphones aren't carrying a media production, distribution and retail middleman in their sticker price.
 

SmokyDave

Member
electroplankton said:
3DS has 3D, which is a kind of status now; the entertainment sector as a whole is pushing on this direction (Sony as well). And still has two screen, which no other device to play has.

Anyway, 3DS has the best first year line-up for a Nintendo console to date (in commercial terms, but also in terms of quantity and variety), and this is out of question. There has been a break in summer, but from September things will improve as hell.
I admire your boundless optimism. I think things will improve as well but coming off the heels of the DS, I don't think it'll necessarily be seen as a 'success' when all's said & done.

madmaxx350 said:
Cyntec said:
Game Boy (DMG)
Game Boy Pocket
Nintendo DS lite
Game Gear... no, just kidding.
Ah, of course, how could I forget those modern powerhouses.
 

Takao

Banned
herod said:
The basic economics are entirely different. Smartphones aren't carrying a media production, distribution and retail middleman in their sticker price.

There is still a middleman in Apple, Google, or Sony (if you're going the PSN route). I just can't see a big budget Metal Gear Solid game launching for $10 on a phone given Konami would be making $6 on every sale. I also can't see a $20, or $30 release being successful on a phone.
 

Cromat

Member
Freezie KO said:
This is how economics doesn't work:

$40 titles are developed for handhelds.
Handhelds fail.
$40 titles are developed for smartphones, now priced at $5-15.
Games flourish and have the same development budgets.

First of all, you are claiming that it's impossible to sell a quality title from a big name developer for more than $10 on a smartphone, but that has never actually been put to the test. Would Pokemon not sell on the App Store if it cost $20-30?

Secondly, you say that portable games should, in fact, cost $40. For the $40 Steel Diver costs you on the 3DS, you could get a dozen or more BETTER games on the App Store. Most portable games can be profitable with a lower price, which coupled with the higher userbase of smartphones can mean that they can make the same or more money than they do on (doomed to decline) dedicated handhelds/

Thirdly, the mobile ecosystem allows for other ways to make revenue, for example in-app purchases and advertising. The profits from these can offset the lower prices of the games themselves.

I believe that the next generation of gaming handhelds from Nintendo and Sony would have smartphone or tablet functionality, and use one of the existing mobile ecosystems (probably Android). The 3DS and Vita are inadequate in today's market. They are expensive machines with expensive titles that you have to carry around in addition to your existing mobile devices. Even children, the one market in which they make sense, can't get one because they're too expensive.
 

Gravijah

Member
Cromat said:
First of all, you are claiming that it's impossible to sell a quality title from a big name developer for more than $10 on a smartphone, but that has never actually been put to the test. Would Pokemon not sell on the App Store if it cost $20-30?

Secondly, you say that portable games should, in fact, cost $40. For the $40 Steel Diver costs you on the 3DS, you could get a dozen or more BETTER games on the App Store. Most portable games can be profitable with a lower price, which coupled with the higher userbase of smartphones can mean that they can make the same or more money than they do on (doomed to decline) dedicated handhelds/

Thirdly, the mobile ecosystem allows for other ways to make revenue, for example in-app purchases and advertising. The profits from these can offset the lower prices of the games themselves.

I believe that the next generation of gaming handhelds from Nintendo and Sony would have smartphone or tablet functionality, and use one of the existing mobile ecosystems (probably Android). The 3DS and Vita are inadequate in today's market. They are expensive machines with expensive titles that you have to carry around in addition to your existing mobile devices. Even children, the one market in which they make sense, can't get one because they're too expensive.
Edit: Oh, misread what you said.
 
SmokyDave said:
I admire your boundless optimism. I think things will improve as well but coming off the heels of the DS, I don't think it'll necessarily be seen as a 'success' when all's said & done.

It's not optimism, but realism. DS was in the same situation 7 years ago, people thought it would have failed against PSP. I'm not saying 3DS will be the new DS but we have to remember how the launch for typical consoles has always been (lack of games, not stellar sales, pessimism and so on).
Leave 3DS to live a full year. It will have games. It will be advertised (in Italy Nintendo will be one of the biggest spender during holiday season in terms of ads, as it has been happening since 2006). DS will sharply decrease. And it already has roughly 3.5 million units in world.
 

Negaiido

Member
Cromat said:
The 3DS and Vita are inadequate in today's market. They are expensive machines with expensive titles that you have to carry around in addition to your existing mobile devices. Even children, the one market in which they make sense, can't get one because they're too expensive.

Oh since when are smartphones really cheap? Do you really want to pay monthly for a gaming device? I dont want to use a big device like the psp/vita/3DS/DS as a phone...
 
Cromat said:
First of all, you are claiming that it's impossible to sell a quality title from a big name developer for more than $10 on a smartphone,

Actually, I never said that.

You said that smartphone games were more "affordable," and that was a check in the column for smartphones. I'm working with your premise. If you want to say that smartphone gaming loses its "affordability" advantage, then, sure, let's go ahead and see if $40 games can sell on the AppStore.

As to your other points:

I agree Nintendo and Sony's next devices will likely have phone models.

But nothing inherent to the "ecosystem" precludes Nintendo or Sony from leveraging DLC or in-game advertising, as much as I personally hate both of those things.
 

Sennorin

Banned
Whenever people state that smartphones are making dedicated handhelds obsolete, I always wonder if they are okay with that or if it´s really a neutral prediction.

For as long as we do not have perfect haptic touchscreens, touchscreen-only devices will *not* replace dedicated handhelds. Maybe the nextgen of handhelds, having begun with 3DS, will sell less than the previous generation. And maybe that is because of smartphones. But *if* that is true, it only means that the handheld market was never that big to begin with. It means that a lot of those people that bought a NDS and PSP got it out of throw-away-decisions or because of their multimedia features. For people that actually *care* about games, smartphones are no alternative. Buttons *are* necessary. Anyone who disagrees about that has no interest in proper gaming, and yes, "proper gaming" is a valid term, unlike "proper gamer", which is silly.
 
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