If I didn't have a proper outlet for to take advantage of these powers and coming from a rough past, I sure would be high strung.
Which is what this game is about. Seeing this incarnation of Dante come into his own and accepting his legacy.
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Why DmC's Dante is a Bad Character (Video)
- Thread starter HyperBitHero
- Start date
If I didn't have a proper outlet for to take advantage of these powers and coming from a rough past, I sure would be high strung.
Which is what this game is about. Seeing this incarnation of Dante come into his own and accepting his legacy.
By how much?
Nitpick but Dante is still mortal in that he can be killed.
I get what you are saying but I was making a contrast between the two. Dante's upbringing even in DmC is not normal so the comparison to Superman is not apt. Having being traumatized by demons even as a child would result him in going crazy, angry or just desensitized. Both the Dantes are mad and out for vengeance but the og Dante is just more comfortable with the situation because he realizes that his powers are superior.
BeautifulMemory
Member
Principate
Saint Titanfall
TBF Considering this Dante is likely younger than Dante from 3, it's not really that illogical if you were hated for the most part by the world at large and had demons chasing you all the time. Really it would actually be more logical DMC Dante was more of cartoony caricature in that sense. Regardless if you were stronger than your enemy having people come out you to kill you all the time would leave anyone mentally unstable, you because not being unkillable there is a chance one of these days you will mess up and die... The majority of regualr people wouldn't act like he did and if they did it would be a defense mechanism for against the issue rather than a normal response.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
right... both versions of Dante's personality are both valid
I was kinda of using your post to point out that just because OG Dante is laid back doesnt mean his personality cant be considered natural to his circumstances or realistic in context
Did he change or grow as a character? Learn anything?
Character growth through conflict is the bread and butter of storytelling.
I think in the context of a cheesy action game, old Dante fits fine. I just think that many people can't relate to him.
I only played the first game but I like this Dante. Just like others said he's immature and trying too hard to be cool, which I find cute 
It's like the original Dante is his cool older brother/dad that he wants to be like but fails miserably, even in his Devil Trigger you see him trying to copy him. For me it would be interesting if this reboot based Sparda on the original Dante.
The only thing your video showed me is how bad the writing is, well I don't remember any line from the first game aside from the one that became a meme so eh.
It's like the original Dante is his cool older brother/dad that he wants to be like but fails miserably, even in his Devil Trigger you see him trying to copy him. For me it would be interesting if this reboot based Sparda on the original Dante.
The only thing your video showed me is how bad the writing is, well I don't remember any line from the first game aside from the one that became a meme so eh.
You'd be surprised by how popular Dante is. I play SCV online and as a created character he's probably as popular as Cloud there.
You're probably right. Capcom mentioned that 2.5 or so seems great for DMC but action games sell 5 mil or so. So DMC4 staff starts a fantasy open world game to get those AC/Skyrim sales while NT changes DMC into something that could get those God of War (doubled to reflect that DMC is on 2 platforms) or Batman like numbers.
A long term shift away from a couple of mil to getting more Resident Evil tier franchises. And old school school Dante was never going to break that ceiling.
Don't worry the reboot still doesn't make sense for a lot of people.
But you are right in that Capcom sort of wrote themselves into a corner with Dante's character. He is the most powerful character in his universe and his original goal to kill the one responsible for his tragedy was completed in DMC1. They had no where to go forward with that, they tried with Dmc2 it was a disaster so they went back to making a prequel to Dmc1 which was really good. Then they tried to follow up after Dmc1 but this time with a new charterer.... story wise that didn't work out well either. They are also dead set on keeping Vergil dead despite his popularity. When you take these elements into account then it sort of makes sense why they went the reboot route.
Total combined sales for the PS3 and 360 versions of DMC4 stand at 2.6 million copies.
Basically. DMC4's story was more about Nero than Dante.
He learned he had a nephew and that people still want Sparda's powers. That's pretty much it.
He seemed pretty indifferent about the whole thing.
I made the comparison in the sense that Dante and Superman are both 'foreigners' raised in a outside world.
I guess the question I would pose to you is, why do we need to relate to these characters on a personal level?
Do I need to relate to Mario? Or Gordon Freeman? Do I need to relate to Cloud Strife? Does relating to them make you like them more?
I dunno, I can only speak from personal taste, but if I'm a dirtbag teenager, the last thing I want to play as in a video game is a dirtbag teenager.
We can only assume that DMC4 was meant as a sort of transition to Nero. Nero learned about his past and came to terms with his background. To Dante, DMC4 was just "tuesday." It reinforced the notion that Dante has become something of a legend.
DMC3 is where Dante really developed.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
They made OG Dante as relatable as Solid Snake
They gave the player an avatar to do some cool actions that said some dude-bro shit while you went thru levels to rake up a high score.
But by doing that they made a character that people were attracted to and drawn to who then became somewhat of an icon
He may not have connected with us on an emotional level but he sure did in a visceral one
By about 500,000 copies.
http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/business/million.html
Well Dragon's Dogma got nowhere near Skyrim, and DmC is not going to get close to God of War or Batman.
BeautifulMemory
Member
DMC4 Dante mentored and protected Nero, and entrusting Vergil's powerful weapon (gateway to the demon world) to him. In a way the story was about the Sparda family's lineage. He looked over Nero the whole time.
Remember the first cutscenes with Nero being late and fighting his way to the church? At the end Dante was shown watching Nero the whole time
And you guys don't seem to remember in DMC3 he empathized with Lady about "dysfunctional family" and it tore him apart losing Vergil. And even as a young adult he has no patience for greedy humans. There's plenty of depth there
Remember the first cutscenes with Nero being late and fighting his way to the church? At the end Dante was shown watching Nero the whole time
And you guys don't seem to remember in DMC3 he empathized with Lady about "dysfunctional family" and it tore him apart losing Vergil. And even as a young adult he has no patience for greedy humans. There's plenty of depth there
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Depends if you want the game to have a good story or not. Regardless of whether you can relate to them or not the character has to actually have depth, logical character progression reasons for actions and reactions, and an actual purpose as to why that particular character is important or important in telling a story. Those characters don't really have that much depth they have some back story etc, but you aren't likely to come away with something from those characters life lesson's.
A character doesn't have to be relatable if the story is designed in such a around that purpose but in a way that's very real. Video games character haven't really reached that for the most and not all of them need to be, the same with all media. But if your going for a good story somethings gotta give.
And the original at 2.1 one platform. Maybe that's why Capcom wasn't impressed with it.
Dude, I was obsessed with FF7 as a highschooler, because I was an emo-reject kid who felt alone in the world. Cloud was basically ME. Now I go back and play FF7 and I realize that it's mostly shlock, although there are some pretty good moments.
You don't need to relate to Mario because Mario doesn't have cutscenes and story elements. And when it does, people press the fucking skip button faster than lightning. See Mario Galaxy... did anyone really care about the story?
In Paper Mario and all those Mario RPGs, the Mario Brothers are mostly silent and the drama is more in the villains and side characters, and the little story vignettes that come out of those encounters. Mario is just a tool for the player to make things right.
Gordan Freeman is similar to Mario, he's the everyman that has no voice and is thrust into situations. He never talks. The story is in the characters that surround him, Alyx and the rest all have decent characters, and it's a typical man versus other style plot. So Freeman is just a tool for the player.
Dante has lines, a persona, he talks in cutscenes, in the past he's had personal goals that aren't just thrust upon him by other characters. He acts for himself, and the player inhabits that body as him. If the player thinks that Dante's goals are silly or unrelatable, he might stop playing.
Oh, and if you're posting on NeoGaf, you are definitely not the target audience for this character... that's a very different kind of teenage dirtbag.
You don't need to relate to Mario because Mario doesn't have cutscenes and story elements. And when it does, people press the fucking skip button faster than lightning. See Mario Galaxy... did anyone really care about the story?
In Paper Mario and all those Mario RPGs, the Mario Brothers are mostly silent and the drama is more in the villains and side characters, and the little story vignettes that come out of those encounters. Mario is just a tool for the player to make things right.
Gordan Freeman is similar to Mario, he's the everyman that has no voice and is thrust into situations. He never talks. The story is in the characters that surround him, Alyx and the rest all have decent characters, and it's a typical man versus other style plot. So Freeman is just a tool for the player.
Dante has lines, a persona, he talks in cutscenes, in the past he's had personal goals that aren't just thrust upon him by other characters. He acts for himself, and the player inhabits that body as him. If the player thinks that Dante's goals are silly or unrelatable, he might stop playing.
Oh, and if you're posting on NeoGaf, you are definitely not the target audience for this character... that's a very different kind of teenage dirtbag.
You have to look at the combined install base of the PS3 and 360 in 2008 when DMC 4 came out.
If Dragon's Dogma and DmC combined only sell 2.6 million, maybe Capcom will look back and realize DMC 4 didn't do so badly.
I dunno. I disagree. You can understand the heartbreak and trauma of a character without them being relatable to your current standing. I don't need a character to look and act like me to be able to appreciate him, what he does, or how he feels.
You related to Cloud? Cloud wasn't an emo-reject kid until the last three hours of a 40-60 hour game. And even then, he was emo as a kid, not as his current character. He only truly became emo in the current Square-Enix bastardization of him. I guess I just perceived the character differently. I don't need a character to be like me to identify with their troubles.
The reason why I picked Mario specifically is because he's an icon. Much like Dante is.
lol, why the personal attack? It was a hypothetical. I am not, nor ever was, a teenage dirtbag.
Well I did add long term shift. ;p
And I mentioned that in a past post that Capcom doesn't expect that from DmC [1]. That'll be DmC 2's job and yeah Dragon's Dogma is a bust. It'll be interesting see what franchise that team is going to launch next gen.
If that's the case, then why have cutscenes really? Why have a story? They obviously invested time and money into it, so I think they want the character to be more than that.
The core MGS characters have somewhat ok character growth, that's the only thing that salvages the story. which really isn't all that great. I love MGS despite this, because I like the characters.
That's a good argument for him being a "sub character", like he was in Nero's game, and like Snake became in MGS2. There's nowhere left for his character to go, so he becomes a trusted advisor that gives a new player character direction. Unfortunately everyone will just bitch and moan if you do that.
Heartbreak and trauma, depending on how they're presented, are somewhat universal human concepts. Dante had some of that in DMC1, I think? DMC3 also had a kind of "coming of age" vibe (that was pretty much not there most of the time). It's not about looking and acting like you, it's about the character being put in different contexts and reacting and changing as they move through time.
Personally I don't relate to og Dante or new Dante at all. I don't wear leather jackets, I don't play pool, rock music is not my preferred genre of music, don't like strawberry sundae, don't like the color red, don't have fair skin, over 6 feet in height (close though), white hair, I don't go to strip clubs, I don't have a traumatic childhood, both of my parents are aliveetc.
Hell I have never even used live firearms nor do I have any interest in using or collecting weapons of any sort. To put it bluntly.... both DmC Dante and og Dante are exactly what I am not. I can't ever "relate" to them and I personally don't see how many people can. Best I have seen is people relate to Dante and Vergils sibling rivalry and the ending of Dmc3 impacted some more than others because of it.. That I can respect.
Hell I have never even used live firearms nor do I have any interest in using or collecting weapons of any sort. To put it bluntly.... both DmC Dante and og Dante are exactly what I am not. I can't ever "relate" to them and I personally don't see how many people can. Best I have seen is people relate to Dante and Vergils sibling rivalry and the ending of Dmc3 impacted some more than others because of it.. That I can respect.
And DMC came out what in a little over a year of the ps2 coming out. Anyone have the sales back then too?
They seemed rather satisfied with 2.1 million for Operation Raccoon City, which was multiplatform by comparison and was another case of outsourcing to an unpopular Western developer.
Out of curiosity, are you really expecting DmC to do better than 2.6 million, particularly given Ninja Theory's track record for sales? Attachment of the Devil May Cry name or no, attempting to sell a game that deviates so far from what people liked about the franchise doesn't exactly help.
Granted, it's not to say that it has no chance of selling well at all in spite of the widespread criticism, given how many people actually bought ORC anyway (showing just how much pull the Resident Evil name has, even if it doesn't translate into sales for handheld titles of much better quality like Revelations). Even in the likely event that it fails to do as well as DMC4, Capcom will likely say that it was worth it anyway, just like they did with ORC and Slant Six.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Did you even read what I said? I said nothing about about that or even implied that, i was talking about character depth which has nothing to do with relateable to current standing.
Well, if we're talking about universal human concepts, then I still disagree. DMC3 was exactly the kind of coming of age story that I appreciate. It's just that most people were dismissive of it (some of those elements were overshadowed by the over the top cutscenes, which I also love).
I sound like a broken record here, but there are obviously themes of familial obligation and inherited responsibility throughout the story. The dichotomy of Vergil and Dante, and the loss of their mother that tore them apart - each brother forced into different extremes to cope with their anger. Vergil decides to understand and research the part of himself that destroyed his mother while Dante rejects it. Lady, a human who recognizes the need to clean out the skeletons in her closet. She accepts her responsibility to put things right, and her example inspires Dante to do the same. Sure, it's not "Oscar worthy" or whatever, but it's unique and not mucked up with superfluous social commentary or convoluted conspiracy theories. And the fact that Dante, Vergil, and Lady are performing acrobatics with melee weapons and firearms did not take that away from me.
In a "universal human concept"-way, I can relate to OG Dante despite the fact that he seems invincible.
Sorry about that. I think that my response to the other post got mixed up in my response to you. I agree with you to an extent, but I also feel that developers often sabotage their characters in an attempt to add depth in a contrived or contradictory way (Metroid: Other M)... and ultimately the story that you end up with isn't worth the sacrifice of the character.
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
Damn dude your videos are on point! Except the "best voice acted scenes," I disagreed with a majority of those. But your character breakdowns are insightful and well executed. I especially love your Talbot video. Bravo.
Edit: But I disagree with most of your RE5 video.
Edit: But I disagree with most of your RE5 video.
The stuff you describe is very metaphorical, like a fable or legend, particularly the two brothers representing different ideals. Growing up and accepting responsibility is a decent theme (that is used in 75% of all Japanese games... ugh), but in DMC4 he's already a legend and really has nowhere to go. It looks like the reboot is supposed to fix this, bringing him back to that brash kid he was in DMC3, and giving him someone/something to care about that's bigger than he is.
Lady's main arc was "revenge against all demons for killing my family! Demons are all bad! --> not all demons are bad, look at Dante, I was prejudiced!" I mean, I guess that's an arc, just a really simple one.
When it comes down to it, the story is an excuse to bring powerful characters together for "epic battle party time", which is OK, but I guess Capcom wants to do more with the series.
Again, the new story could be utter shit, who knows? Hard to say until it comes out.
Lady's main arc was "revenge against all demons for killing my family! Demons are all bad! --> not all demons are bad, look at Dante, I was prejudiced!" I mean, I guess that's an arc, just a really simple one.
When it comes down to it, the story is an excuse to bring powerful characters together for "epic battle party time", which is OK, but I guess Capcom wants to do more with the series.
Again, the new story could be utter shit, who knows? Hard to say until it comes out.
BeautifulMemory
Member
Lady's arc was coming to terms she had been living a lie and that her father actually killed her mother, and in turn, she had to overcome her denial/love for the father, the possibility of killing her father
This isn't some great writing, but it's decent and has depth to it
This isn't some great writing, but it's decent and has depth to it
FlashbladeGAF
Member
problem with all the big wigs at Jpn companies is they treated their talent like shit so they left to form their own [low budget]companies.
Here's a thought big wigs at Capcom... how about you let the person who created the IP do a sequel (at the very least have some involvement in its development). That way you wont have to "try" and figure out where to take it. Leave the thinking to the creative types.
[looks at DMC2 and cries at what could have been then looks at Bayonetta]
Play Shadow of the Colossus.
I always wonder the same thing. I don't think I identify with video game characters and I'm not some soulless robot. I more enjoy the protagonist's plight as an observer.
LightofRohan
Member
HyperBitHero
Member
The video isn't even about the game being bad. In terms of gameplay, I think it will be a bit better than Heavenly Sword, and much better than Enslaved.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Lady in DMC3 was cute as a button :3
I really didn't like how they sleazed her up for DMC4 and her addition was completely pointless fan pandering.
Holy shit, looking at that CG, she really got some big assets in DMC 4.
HyperBitHero
Member
Lady in DMC3 was cute as a button :3
I really didn't like how they sleazed her up for DMC4 and her addition was completely pointless fan pandering.
And now she's possibly gone forever.
I liked them, man.
DanielJr82
Member
Good rant, man. Too late now to make any changes, but perhaps on sequels they'll actualize his appearance to match his attitude.
First Name
Member
I'm sure she will show up in the DmC sequels. Probably as a angry chain smoking goth or some shit. It'll be cool...
HyperBitHero
Member
I don't know. It's really sad, and I keep reminding myself about it.
May not be such a bad thing. I hate what they have done with Vergil. I fear what they will do to a female cast member that could be more demeaning than what DMC4 has done (and that is saying something).
staticneuron
Member
My thinking is that this game is a prequel. So him NOT having the attitude and collected demeanor of the dante we know makes sense. He is a young punk for now. Also his devil trigger being the dante we know (evolution of power) also makes sense. Meaning the dante we know is at a certain level of power "all the time", which obviously is beyond human.
But I agree with others in the view that, your idea of where the story is going or why things pare presented is premature. If the person had their hands on the final product I could understand but taking tidbits of the promotional material and creating your own narrative to stitch it together isn't helping anyone.
But I agree with others in the view that, your idea of where the story is going or why things pare presented is premature. If the person had their hands on the final product I could understand but taking tidbits of the promotional material and creating your own narrative to stitch it together isn't helping anyone.
Joseph Flemming
Member
As a fan of Devil May Cry, I completely agree. I remember playing DMC3 and thinking that man he was a Ass when he was young, not really caring about anything right from the intro scene... Purposefully getting fucked up, being more concerned with starting a jukebox! What about missile surfing!? He didn't really learn anything until after his fight with Virgil. In DMC4 he was older and more mature (suave to be sure) but still a jerk, albeit a calmer jerk. My fav Dante is DMC4's but only beacuse he seems more balanced. Crap talking Dante from part 1 mixed with high risk reward Fromm part 3 + Age equaled charming rouge flower in mouth playful Dante of part 4.
Since NuDante is young, I expect him to be an Ass.
