After you play it? It's alright to talk about the way he looks, which has been done to death as well but complaining about writing and attitude based on trailers is like judging the next tarantino movie based on interviews and trailers.
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Why DmC's Dante is a Bad Character (Video)
- Thread starter HyperBitHero
- Start date
After you play it? It's alright to talk about the way he looks, which has been done to death as well but complaining about writing and attitude based on trailers is like judging the next tarantino movie based on interviews and trailers.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
It's a well-made video, and you sound out your opinions clearly. However, you're reaching in a lot of them, and passing judgement on story and characters before even playing the game is kind of unfair.
Personally, the plot in the DMC series has always been not just putrid garbage, but complete fucking nonsense. From plot to backstory to characters to world design itself, none of it makes sense. I find it weird to hold the games to any sort of standard and complain that NT is going on another direction.
I was a hater when NT was first announced as a developer, but I've done a 180 on the game. I've liked what I've seen, including the cut-scenes and Dante himself. Some of the quips he makes are genuinely humorous I thought. Everything I've heard in the writing in this game is an improvement on previous games. He also seems nice enough and not at all like a 90's GUY WITH ATTITUDE as some of you paint him. OG Dante is the guy that tries super hard to be cool, not this one as far as I can see.
Personally, the plot in the DMC series has always been not just putrid garbage, but complete fucking nonsense. From plot to backstory to characters to world design itself, none of it makes sense. I find it weird to hold the games to any sort of standard and complain that NT is going on another direction.
I was a hater when NT was first announced as a developer, but I've done a 180 on the game. I've liked what I've seen, including the cut-scenes and Dante himself. Some of the quips he makes are genuinely humorous I thought. Everything I've heard in the writing in this game is an improvement on previous games. He also seems nice enough and not at all like a 90's GUY WITH ATTITUDE as some of you paint him. OG Dante is the guy that tries super hard to be cool, not this one as far as I can see.
Joseph Flemming
Member
^ This, finally someone else stated what my sleep deprived brain couldn't articulate well in my previous two post. (posting early am is no good) I absolutely love DMC games. The action, corny one liners and all. That said, it was never high art, and the story really isn't all that great IMHO.
The only part I agreed with was the slurred speech. It is a bit... off. The rest is just like his opinion man. Especially the part about how it's ignorant about what it is to be cool.
I don't like this new Dante personally but at the same time, I don't see what was so special about the original. I just take issue with the fact that Ninja Theory didn't stick to their guns and run with the original character they came up with. Looked so much more interesting and unique. Now it's just some kid in a red coat.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
I can't wait for this game to release so this nightmare freak-show can be over. I don't even care if it's the best DMC ever or the worst I just don't want to hear about its development anymore.
This is the best thing ever.
Have you read any of the hands-on impressions and previews? The combat has received near unanimous praise.
I don't agree with your video, but good effort.
I really hated how DmC's Dante looked in the beginning, but now it's all good. I'm glad that NT went and changed it! His personality and attitude still seem in line with DMC3's Dante, but it's NT's own spin on him.
As for story and dialogue, well the series has always been pretty cheesy.
I really hated how DmC's Dante looked in the beginning, but now it's all good. I'm glad that NT went and changed it! His personality and attitude still seem in line with DMC3's Dante, but it's NT's own spin on him.
As for story and dialogue, well the series has always been pretty cheesy.
Since Vergil is V in this game, NT's Lady will be a female Assange (Juliana "Lady" Asang) she will be the one who leaks the story and events of DmC to da people.
HyperBitHero
Member
Actually, I did mention his hair, but only to say that his Devil Trigger design was pandering.
From who, game journalists who have no understanding or appreciation for what made the combat in previous DMC games great?
I'll stick with impressions from guys like Dahbomb in the GAF threads.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
this is nothing compared to the reveal.
I think I got banned because I went to far, calling out Tadeem on his egotistical character redesign
[banned again]
Previews and special access impressions tend to be favorable, especially if they want to retain those privileges.
RealDeadOne
Member
"DMC always had a bad story" is not a valid rebuttal. Replacing a bad character is acceptable, replacing him with an equally bad or even worse character is not.
What many are failing to realize is that DMC was not a story or character focused franchise, and this new game is. Old Dante fit his purpose as a one-dimensional action hero fine. New Dante is cheesy and one-dimensional, but the tone of everything else seems to be serious. This is what the OP meant when he said that Ninja Theory is attempting to make the game be two different things at once.
I know that Ninja Theory had no choice in the matter of having to reboot the series, and I have no problem with a different interpretation, but I disagree with the direction they decided to take Dante.
What many are failing to realize is that DMC was not a story or character focused franchise, and this new game is. Old Dante fit his purpose as a one-dimensional action hero fine. New Dante is cheesy and one-dimensional, but the tone of everything else seems to be serious. This is what the OP meant when he said that Ninja Theory is attempting to make the game be two different things at once.
I know that Ninja Theory had no choice in the matter of having to reboot the series, and I have no problem with a different interpretation, but I disagree with the direction they decided to take Dante.
LightofRohan
Member
How do you know if it is pandering?
Do people not realize this is an origin story done by another developer? I was assuming we'd find out how he got his white hair in the end. Because his hair changes when he goes into demon mode, maybe at the end something happens where it is just becomes a permanent thing.
And again people complain that he's too angsty, trying to be cool, fowl, unkempt guy. Again, people don't understand its an origin story? That seems pretty accurate how he would be as a teen. I'm sure most of you are teens here still. That's how a lot of you act, sorry to break it to you.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
How do you know if it is pandering?
Do people not realize this is an origin story done by another developer? I was assuming we'd find out how he got his white hair in the end. Because his hair changes when he goes into demon mode, maybe at the end something happens where it is just becomes a permanent thing.
And again people complain that he's too angsty, trying to be cool, fowl, unkempt guy. Again, people don't understand its an origin story? That seems pretty accurate how he would be as a teen. I'm sure most of you are teens here still. That's how a lot of you act, sorry to break it to you.
Its more funny because they act that way in the DmC threads all the time
Your preaching to the choir. I'm sure someone around here knows about my stance on stories in action games. But I don't think that means it can't be judged. It's not like we are going on promo art here. However, you never know how the game will turn out as a whole. Which I never ignore.
I lol'd.
I can't wait for this game to release so this nightmare freak-show can be over. I don't even care if it's the best DMC ever or the worst I just don't want to hear about its development anymore.
Nitpicky but why is the weapon design so damn ugly? I get all the jerky movement, slow and poor execution is Dante being 'inexperienced' but what excuse is there for the weapon to completely lack personality? Are they inexperienced too? I saw the gauntlet type from the new footage and it just looked bad.
fallingdove
Member
The gauntlets really looked bad. I kept thinking they looked like flaming trashbags over Mickey Mouse gloves as I watched the gameplay. But not only the model, the effects look like shit too. I think that art direction has been one of NTs saving graces in times past - it's disappointing to see such a poorly conceived weapon.
What industry are you talking about? DMC fan or not, this statement is ridiculous. I'm embarrassed for you.
I agree with this
They were probably amazed to play a Ninja Theory game with actual working controls.
They look like Popeye arms.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
The way he says "There are demons everywhere."
My god.
My god.
It's all opinions, but I'm going to agree that new Dante is trying way too hard to be cool, but most importantly, failing even harder. I also didn't know the developers said those sad words that make me cringe - guys, guys! we're aiming to be just as good as movies!. This is a game I won't be playing. There are so many awesome games coming out that I find it hard to justify playing this. Hope it's great for everyone interested, though.
The story and characters would pass for a terrible B-Movie but Tameem constantly brings up Nolan's Batman and Casino Royale to justify what he is doing with DmC, which is just just insane if he feels what he's doing is anywhere near comparable.
Nothing is being elevated; story, characters, weapons, level design is either as good as what DMC franchise has done or far worse. If you want to look at a reboot that is actually an evolution then just look at latest Tomb Raider.
Yes, I did, and yes, he did. Watch it again.
EDIT: He does mention Dante's hair and jacket right here. Maybe not in the way you imagine, but he does mention it.
http://youtu.be/BuoUfyMUQTc?t=2m19s
I think you are missing the analogy there.
It's not that he is trying to make a game LIKE Casino Royale/Dark Knight or that he is even trying to make DMC more like a movie but rather he was using that as examples of what is being changed thematically. Both those movies gave more depth to those iconic characters while grounding both their personalities and their worlds. That's what he means by the ideology behind this reboot. While it may not be clear now it does certainly seem like they are developing Dante completely from scratch. Even DMC3 Dante was more focused and knew what he had to do in life, DmC Dante still has to make that important choice in life. I feel like the most important dialogue in DmC so far is when Vergil asks Dante "what were you planning on doing with your life?"
He was merely using examples of reboots which worked. If he used examples of reboots which were failures then that wouldn't be as good for the PR.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
How do you know it's pandering? The fuck? It could have been their intention to have his DT to be a homage to the actual look of Dante. From the very first footages we see that Dante had a patch of white hair - it's obviously ingrained in the devs that they want to do something in regards with that. It's also a problem that permeates through a lot of your video in which a lot of people here have a problem with, you assume deliberate design as a Ninja Theories way of mocking the fans and or the game. Like all 100 of them collectively woke up and said, let's piss off some people....YEAH. You base this mind you - on about 5-10 minutes of total, new cutscene footage that has been shown. Basically not much. You also assume that this character is completely static - and isn't going to change, mature, and develop as the game goes on (despite NT saying multiple times that he would as this was their interperation of Dante's origin story). In the name-sake of character growth and progression, wouldn't it make sense to start Dante off as a douche bag self centered kid who finds purpose and reason by the end the of the game? Somebody to protect, something to protect, a cause to protect? So - you start of him off by saying Fuck you to demons, and you end him off by taking the mantle of humanities protector against Demon's. It might be a slight ham-fisted, but that's certainly a sure fire way to create a disparity between Dante's growth from cutscene # 1 to the ending sequence.
Basically if this is their interpretation of Dante's origin story to becoming what he becomes (the Dante we know) - then naturally, he would be 'different' to the Dante we know at the beginning of this game wouldn't he? But you're complaining that he isn't like the Dante we know, well of course. Naturally - that's the point of him becoming who he will be. So, by that logic, he would start off as something else. In this case, an cocky kid cursing at Demons.
You also assume (randomly) mind you that Dante is a womanizer. What the shit? You live in the Victorian age or some shit? Just because a girl puts her number on his forearm doesn't make him a womanizer. It's the 21st century. Club, party - event, guy meets girl, they hook up, they move on with their lives. It's consent on both sides. Just because Dante gets pussy doesn't make him a whiz-bang-ninja-cool womanizer *cues song*
HyperBitHero
Member
Instead of being clever with wordplay, new Dante just saying and writing "fuck you" in those scenes. Swearing alone doesn't make your cool, but it can be cool and intense when used correctly. New Dante just throws it around without any charisma behind it.
No offense, but how do you know? Seriously. I appreciate what you were trying to do, but you sound like you've already played the game.
Well, he did show a number of clips. Using "Fuck You" as the punch-line thrice is either really awful or a running gag in the game.
HyperBitHero
Member
The creative director of the game was pretty adamant about his view on Dante's design being uncool, saying he'd get laughed out of a bar. The game was announced, and went back into hiding for a long time, then when it was shown again, he all of a sudden had a Devil Trigger that made him look like Dante, stopped smoking, and was much louder and arrogant. It's obvious that the game went through creative backtracking.
I never said anything about Ninja Theory mocking the fans or deliberately doing things to make fans mad. If anything, they're trying to appease the fans.
5-10 minutes? The devilmaycry YouTube channel has hours of footage alone. Then you could go to gamestop's channel for more.
The One and Done
Member
Was that Vergil towards the end? Where's the whole video of that?
It would be creative backtracking if they actually changed Dante in a more meaningful way than "stopped smoking". We're not even sure if he actually stopped smoking yet!
The amount of hate this game is getting is sad, seems like nothing NT does will ever please hard core DMC fans. If they do X they are "pandering" if they do Y they are "mocking their fans" :/
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
SlasherJPC
Banned
"Ninja theory doesnt like the devil may cry series
and they dont respect its legacy. To them its just a stupid action franchise" Coming from someone who loved Heavenly Sword... I don't know how to feel about your statement. It's rude and your assuming no one gives a shit about DMC at Ninja Theory. So you think these guys hate the series, are trying to make it bad, and have no respect for the series at all?
The DT design as a whole is just extremely lazy in its current state. It's not even a real "devil" transformation, it's more like a Super Saiyan transformation. There is supposed to be an entire full body design change that goes along with the DT transformation.
I really hope that later on Dante just turns permanently into his "DT" self so that when he actually DTs he gains a real demonic form.
We will never actually find out what changed in DmC after the backlash and what didn't. Like for example, if there wasn't any backlash to Dante's design... would Vergil look like he does now? Clearly it was Capcom's intent for a radical Dante re-design but was such an imperative put on Vergil too since they are both twins? Was Vergil even part of the plan before?
Yeah there are many minor examples of stuff that changed after "feedback" but in terms of concepts you have to wonder what NT had in store and had to change if any based on some of this feedback/backlash.
I really hope that later on Dante just turns permanently into his "DT" self so that when he actually DTs he gains a real demonic form.
We will never actually find out what changed in DmC after the backlash and what didn't. Like for example, if there wasn't any backlash to Dante's design... would Vergil look like he does now? Clearly it was Capcom's intent for a radical Dante re-design but was such an imperative put on Vergil too since they are both twins? Was Vergil even part of the plan before?
Yeah there are many minor examples of stuff that changed after "feedback" but in terms of concepts you have to wonder what NT had in store and had to change if any based on some of this feedback/backlash.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
Well yeah, a guy with old-man colored hair with cowboy boots, tight leather pants, more belts than Nomura can draw, and a red trench coat...would probably get laughed out of a bar. Actually, the police would be called because this guy would look like a lunatic dressing like that in public. Not saying NT's design is any better though...
Before I rip into this one let me just slap you with some truth. It's not "obvious that the game went through creative backtracking?" In what kind of insider scoop, high and mighty precognitive pedestal have you put yourself on where you can pull that statement out of your ass. So, just because you witness a change - you assume this change is an obvious retcon due to fan feedback. It wasn't because nobody at the development offices creatively (you know, creative - the core purpose of their job) decided to change things. You refuse to give them credit, and instead denouce it as "creative backtracking???"
So, about your quote - let's start. It's called fucking VIDEO GAME DEVELOPMENT. What you refer to as "going back into hiding" is called "going the fuck to work" - and instead of doing interviews all day long, you spend all day long actually working on the game. You know? Game development. The public isn't made aware of every proceeding, or development, or progress, or board metting, or dev team meeting every second as if you're watching some live stream from Ninja Theorys office. They came out and showed an early projection concept trailer with Dante smoking. We don't know if they changed this if due to fan feedback, or if it was some internal choice at Capcom or Ninja Theory to do so. Remember, DMC4's first [two] unveilings at E3 and TGS (2006 I believe) those trailers had nothing to do with how the game actually was later on.
You go on this tirade at the end where you say Ninja Theory "doesn't care about DMC, they don't respect it, blah blah blah." You essentially label Ninja Theory as some dismissive development team that has no interest in the project they are working on for the past 3 years. Really? So, because you think Dante says fuck you one too many times, you're going to label that everyone involved doesn't give two shits about the project, and that they are twiddling their thumbs all day long. Whoakay.
The 'hours upon hours' of footage you are referring to IS REPETITION OF THE SAME SEGMENTS OF THE GAME. Just because you've seen the 3 second cutscene of Dante saying fuck you to the boss 100 times doesn't mean he says a net value of "fuck you" of 5 minutes. The actual new, raw - unseen cutscene footage that we've seen of the game is actually only about 5 to 10 minutes themselves. Just because they keep showing that cutscene in whatever play throughs they keep showing at various trade shows, doesn't make them "new" - you're watching the same thing. They have only shown a part of the city, a club, and Bob Barbas level. In the various trailers, they have only shown a small segment of interaction with Dante and the various characters in a mere matter of minutes. Even if you add up the total net "timage" of all the major trailers they have even put out you wouldn't exceed footage of over 15 minutes. And most of that is gameplay cuts and title intro screens.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
Basically this is what it has come down to.
I know right? Like, it's great he tries to make some valid attempt at explaining to the masses why some hardcore DMC fans have issues with the new Dante. But then he'll just go off the deep end and say something stupid like this.
Game's not out yet, so I'll reserve my full judgment for then, but I just lament the fact that this has to be a new Devil May Cry game. Why couldn't it just have been a brand new action game with a different title and differently named characters? (Of course, I know it's 'cause of brand recognition, but still.)
The whole "brainwashing media" story sounds really dumb, too.
I really hope we can return to the original DMC universe someday. I really want to know what the hell is up with Nero and where the heck he came from (another son of Sparda?).
The whole "brainwashing media" story sounds really dumb, too.
I really hope we can return to the original DMC universe someday. I really want to know what the hell is up with Nero and where the heck he came from (another son of Sparda?).
Anyway I think that comment is pretty stupid, why does it matter if he would get laughed out of a bar? If the design looks cool and people like it (most DMC fans did like original Dante's design I think) I don't see the problem.
