It was L I T E R A L L Y less than a minute of the showing, how exactly is that the majority again?
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Why Spiderman's QTEs/button prompts get a free pass while other games got crucified?
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It was L I T E R A L L Y less than a minute of the showing, how exactly is that the majority again?
Except the majority of the game's showing wasn't QTE's. My goodness.
ClayKavalier
Banned
Again, we've known Spider-Man has QTEs for a couple days, and we found out in the middle of one of the busiest weeks for gaming news. What exactly did you expect here?
And that's ignoring the fact that there HAS been a ton of criticism of the QTEs. Been said enough times but this is a bizarre thread. Next up: "Why didn't Microsoft mention that the Xbox 1 X does 4K at their conference?"
SolidSnakex
Member
To be exact, it was 35s and that time includes the animation of the QTE. That's 35s from a 9m video.
More_Badass
Member
I think people tend to treat QTEs the same way they treat jump scares. There's nothing inherent wrong with jump scares; some of the best horror movies use them, and they can be very effective when used well. Of course the vast majority of movies just use them as a crutch and rely on them way too much
QTEs seem similar. So many games use them in shitty ways or just poorly that there seems to be an instant visceral reaction to just the mere idea that a game would have QTEs, without any nuance on the how, why, and when the prompts are used and the context in which they work best
QTEs seem similar. So many games use them in shitty ways or just poorly that there seems to be an instant visceral reaction to just the mere idea that a game would have QTEs, without any nuance on the how, why, and when the prompts are used and the context in which they work best
Yautja_Warrior
Member
Gameplay has combat like the Arkham games, with Spider-Man's web swinging for moving around and then some QTE's in the cutscenes / set pieces, I'm fine with that, it's not like the game is all QTE's, plus it looked awesome.
Gravy Boat
Member
The QTEs killed my interest in the game in all honesty and it was my favourite thing about E3 2016.
Good post. I think the feeling being conveyed is important to judging the use of QTE's. What is being conveyed to players pushing buttons that can't be conveyed with normal gameplay mechanics? What is being conveyed that cannot be replicated in a simple short cutscene? At least with RYSE there was an actual mechanic at play related to the optional QTE's, so some thought went into their implementation.
For this Spider-Man demo I felt they were randomly inserted without much thought at all outside of him pulling the panel of the helicopter. It came off as really lazy, poor design. When mashing a button to convey a sense of desperate adrenaline fueled concerted effort for a short period of time it makes more sense imo. That makes the player's muscles tense up and their nerves fire in a way similar to what the dev wants to convey.
Specifically, Spider-Man was literally doing things that were no more spectacular in the QTE's than what he was already doing routinely in the demo. It doesn't make much sense to me. Why did they have a QTE for pulling a random enemy out of a group and then hanging him from an i-beam? The player was JUST doing that exact kind of thing! Why the QTE for timed jumping in an action platformer? The player expects to jump around to dodge moving objects as is! Just make some debris fly at the player so they start the jump sequence trigger.
I have never crucified innocuous QTEs, or QTEs in an otherwise good game.
Just like anything else in a game, they can be done very well, or very poorly.
Either way, they are not really fun and don't add much. But if it's for huge set pieces/scripted/on rails moments, I can overlook them.
Instead of trying to arm chair game design a less cinematic scenario just for the sake of control.
There are plenty of games that do that, and this isn't one of them. It doesn't have to be either.
EDIT: Hilarious that a couple of seconds of transition gameplay and pressing a button can ruin an entire game for someone.
We can speculate that the game at bare minimum is at least 10-15hrs if going by story (which is said to be "massive" and feature a huge cast). That deducts open world gameplay (the entire world is available to explore from the start). Yet they demo a linear story mission, with an action set piece that shows Spider-Man being Spider-Man (swinging *check*, whupping ass *check*, looking cool while doing pretty much everything *check*), but yet this fuss about QTE has gone straight overboard. I do not think they are fun, or good design, but they are so short and minimal to the experience that it's hard to discredit pretty much everything else.
Just like anything else in a game, they can be done very well, or very poorly.
Either way, they are not really fun and don't add much. But if it's for huge set pieces/scripted/on rails moments, I can overlook them.
Instead of trying to arm chair game design a less cinematic scenario just for the sake of control.
There are plenty of games that do that, and this isn't one of them. It doesn't have to be either.
EDIT: Hilarious that a couple of seconds of transition gameplay and pressing a button can ruin an entire game for someone.
We can speculate that the game at bare minimum is at least 10-15hrs if going by story (which is said to be "massive" and feature a huge cast). That deducts open world gameplay (the entire world is available to explore from the start). Yet they demo a linear story mission, with an action set piece that shows Spider-Man being Spider-Man (swinging *check*, whupping ass *check*, looking cool while doing pretty much everything *check*), but yet this fuss about QTE has gone straight overboard. I do not think they are fun, or good design, but they are so short and minimal to the experience that it's hard to discredit pretty much everything else.
TetraGenesis
Member
I had a lot of fun with Metal Gear Rising QTE-cutscenes. Those were awesome.
NavyPharaoh
Member
It drives me crazy how much hate this game gets over QTEs. It wasn't like the Order were u need a QTE to do a backstab or Telltale games Where entire action sequences are built upon it.
How else would you simulate Spider-man run up a damn crane while keeping the player involved? Every QTE we've seen in Spider-man was necessary
It's not like every fight sequence was QTEs or every jump was. There's a good way & bad way to do QTEs some should concentrate on being critical thinkers instead of just being critics
How else would you simulate Spider-man run up a damn crane while keeping the player involved? Every QTE we've seen in Spider-man was necessary
It's not like every fight sequence was QTEs or every jump was. There's a good way & bad way to do QTEs some should concentrate on being critical thinkers instead of just being critics
Bruh it was 35 seconds in a damn 9 minute vid what the fuck is wrong with you people
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
People have been complaining,but the QTE that people can't stand and hate are really the blatant videos with button presses thrown in and passed off as gameplay
But everyone uproars about it now because that's what they think of when they see button prompts pop up.
When a game does a set piece which flows from gameplay to QTE naturally and back out and its there to heighten the experience for the player with quick reaction sequences in cinematic way.
that's fine.
GOW2 and GOW3 are praised for having the best opening to any game and are literally made up of them, but the way it's done make you feel like you are actually controlling the character, bad QTE feel like a rhythm game placed over a video of an FMV.
But everyone uproars about it now because that's what they think of when they see button prompts pop up.
When a game does a set piece which flows from gameplay to QTE naturally and back out and its there to heighten the experience for the player with quick reaction sequences in cinematic way.
that's fine.
GOW2 and GOW3 are praised for having the best opening to any game and are literally made up of them, but the way it's done make you feel like you are actually controlling the character, bad QTE feel like a rhythm game placed over a video of an FMV.
Definition of majority
plural majorities
3
a : a number or percentage equaling more than half of a total
sublimit
Banned
I don't get it.What makes those QTEs "necessary"?They offer no immersion they require no skill and they actually interrupt what would have otherwise been a hollywood-quality cutscene.
Exactly. Did people complain about God of War's qte so much? Jesus.
I honestly think without them, people would still complain about the sequence being too cut scene driven.
Even though they served as mere transitions between the gameplay and the mission.
They are a bit obnoxious, but I don't think they really hurt the flow of the segment. It still looked great.
NavyPharaoh
Member
To keep your hands on the controller. Imagine if it's a cutscene, SOME may put the controller down, only to immediately get thrown right back into the action. Then people would complain about that as well. By having a QTE right there you never put the controller down cause you're never displaced from the action
More_Badass
Member
For one, you'd have those shifts beteeen cutscene and gameplay.
And two, such prompts lets the developer modulate the controls to suit the gameplay and moment as needed. In this set piece, it seamlessly shifts between
- regular swinging and webzips through the city
- perfectly framed and choreographed Spidey moments that use prompts to mirror player controls (triggers for webbing, etc)
- sprinting through building interior destruction
- contextual helicopter fight
With a cutscene, you have two options: regular gameplay or nothing. With this, you can alter, limit, focus the controls however you want for that moment while also seamlessly blending it with regular gameplay
gamerMan
Member
Really, it's not how many seconds. It's how drawn out that set piece is. There are over 20 button prompts during that QTE setpiece, which is worrying.
Contrast that with the Arkham Knight's gamplay footage, which seamlessly blended gameplay with cinematics without these overly drawn out boring QTE segments with multiple prompts.
There were times that Batman pulls off moves that couldn't be accomplished by the player but these are only 2-5 second cinematics that don't require multiple button presses to draw them out. For example, when you get into the Batmobile and out. There are even moments when the action slows down where the player momentarily doesn't have control so the game can show you a cinematic. It's cinematic and cool for sure, but it immediately puts you back in the game without the use of overly drawn out QTEs. Sometimes each of these actions is triggered by a single button prompt instead of 20. Because it is so short, you never feel like you are watching Batman, but feel like him.
Batman Arkham gameplay
Woodchipper
Member
Troll
More_Badass
Member
Really it's not about the number of prompts. It's about the context in which prompts are used, why they're used, and how they blend with gameplay
Also your Arkham example isn't comparable, that clip is the equivalent of Spidey webzipping outside after the cutscene with Kingpin ends. Not to the set-piece
WrenchNinja
Member
There are some things you feasibly cant do game play wise. Pretending like the the demo was just QTEs and cutscenes is hella disingenuous.
mr teaspoon
Member
Oh, stop it. I'm in the same boat as he is. I was psyched for this game and the QTEs really took a lot of the wind out my sails.
Original Man
Member
The outrage of this is so hilariously sad. People are steadily losing logic in these days and times. There's absolutely NO way to have complete control of spiderman and have those setpieces. Were most of yall born yesterday? Have yall ever played games like GOW for friggen sake? Lol smdh
SolidSnakex
Member
How are they drawn out? The longest sequence is 18s long (the crane one), the others range from 2-4s. They're extremely brief.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
To the contrary. I'm sick of people talking about QTEs in relation to this game.
His mortal kombat fatality has QTE.
Not sure about complaining (I did) but if that is not a "holy shit the dude is sinonimous with quicktime event" I don't know what is
Spring-Loaded
Member
I'm not too crazy about the single button press moments, but having moments where you have to aim st and web something up is perfectly in line with a Spider-Man story, and I'm all for that kind of QTE. Overall, I'm good so long as it's reserved for stuff that couldn't reasonably be possible through normal gameplay.
20? In a previous thread you put up an image showing 13, and not even all of those were actual QTEs.
Images 6,8,9 and 10 aren't QTEs.
old manatee
Banned
I'm withholding judgement until the game comes out and people play it. If it's full of qtes I'm just not going to bother with it. Hopefully they aren't overbearing.
wild wild rice
Member
I'm not interested in playing this game but I thought the QTEs looked fine and worked within the context of the helicopter chase.
0ptimusPayne
Member
Never really minded QTE's in games(GOW's finishers are the best), until Halo Spoiler
And honestly Gaf is extra sensitive when it comes to QTE, and I feel like no games get a "free pass" when it comes to discussing how much people hate them on here.
You defeat the Didact by pulling LT. So Trash
Who's gonna fund that exactly?
I haven't complained about that in a decade; I ditched the series after God of War 2. If you're someone who doesn't like that sort of 'gameplay' then it has been a series best avoided. It's good to hear the new one mostly doesn't have them, and might be the right time to jump back in.
I don't expect this new Spider-Man game to be quite as bad as those games though so that's hopefully a plus.
People are accepting of things on an arbitrary basis and are hypocritical a lot of the time. Welcome to the real world
ElephantShell
Banned
They don't. Many posts I saw about the game were complaining about that shit.
TimeEffect
Member
I am perfectly okay with what Im seeing in Spiderman. It's supposed to be a cinematic sequence and I can't really expect to be aiming and placing down webbing while free falling and trying to stop a falling truck.
Not the best demo they could have chose, but Im not really worried
Not the best demo they could have chose, but Im not really worried
People get disappointed with lazy game design and complain about it. The QTE's in this demo were lazy. It would be nice if people didn't just blindly defend it and/or didn't act like it makes the game shit by default. Surely there exists rational middle ground for people to occupy and discuss QTE's and where they do and do not fit in good game design.
20? In a previous thread you put up an image showing 13, and not even all of those were actual QTEs.
Images 6,8,9 and 10 aren't QTEs.
I hope #12 is harder to execute on higher difficulties​.
I don't have anything against having QTE in shorter cutscenes to keep the player alert. I think the best implementation is when they don't punish the user to hard. I liked how it was implemented in this scene Heavy Rain, hilarious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy44s_de15Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy44s_de15Y
Yeah Sucker Punch has never used QTEs.
Never mind the combat looking like it has the potential to be better than anything in a SP game (none of those games had good hand to hand combat).
Holy fuck lol. You guys are delusional.
Aside from QTEs, combat and stealth leave a lot to be desired, the mechanics are not interesting at all, they've tried to copy Batman Arkham (and looks like Web of Shadows) but it's just not as good as that, it doesn't even come close to Batman Arkham.
In 2009, Rocksteady made Batman from ground up, they didn't try to copy any other game, the mechanics were around Batman himself hence felt fresh and original.
Insomniac should've done the same with Spider-Man, they should've come up with their own mechanics built around Spider-man, some new ideas and creativity would've been appreciated, instead of going with the downgraded version of a game made in 2009.
But nah who cares as long as you make it pretty and cinematic!
In 2009, Rocksteady made Batman from ground up, they didn't try to copy any other game, the mechanics were around Batman himself hence felt fresh and original.
Insomniac should've done the same with Spider-Man, they should've come up with their own mechanics built around Spider-man, some new ideas and creativity would've been appreciated, instead of going with the downgraded version of a game made in 2009.
But nah who cares as long as you make it pretty and cinematic!
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