capitalCORN
Member
Yeah, since AMD don't need to sell new cards anyways....
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Why won't PC do checkerboard 4K? (it does)
- Thread starter Renekton
- Start date
Yeah, since AMD don't need to sell new cards anyways....
Forever Changes
Banned
I was saying for me, I only go native, so I won't upgrade to a 4k screen until I have the power to run 4k native.
capitalCORN
Member
It's not like throughput from new cards is strictly limited to resolution. It's just a simple matter of fact that 4K is the loftiest goal at the moment.
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
Native 4K > Faux-K
Aztechnology
Member
That's really all that needs to be said here
justsomeguy
Member
Qb got absolutely slaughtered for its rendering technology. Why is that bad, but check board good? Just different techniques ?e: Durante probably answered on post above
Many PC gamers have very definite ideals about the sharpness of the visuals they expect at a given resolution. (That's why such techniques should certainly be optional on the platform)
Brerlappin
Member
Exactly. Upscaling looks like shit. Whatever fancy new buzzword you want to attach to it.
And for OPs benefit, PC does native 4k with no need for upscaling, that's why.
Dictator93
Member
So is this checkerboard using things like geometry sub-samples or constantly jittering the frame so the samples offset so that it can reproject them into the next frame by comparing?
Or is it purely a spatial single-frame event?
edit: it sounds purely like a single-frame upscale from what I read in the article
Or is it purely a spatial single-frame event?
edit: it sounds purely like a single-frame upscale from what I read in the article
The big problem with Quantum Break when it initially released was that it wasn't optional; you couldn't toggle between native and reconstructed so setting your resolution to 1080 would give you a reconstruction from 720p.
MagicWithEarvin
Member
May - July is the rumored projected release of Volta, it'll be here before ya know it. I just hope HBM2 hits mass market with those Nvidia cards.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
I'll take it as some AA solution. can't be worse than FXAA that I have willingly used a few times.
This may be a weird question but....
I wonder how a checkerboard image (say 1080 x 2) would look downsampled back to 1080p? How far off would it be from a downsampled 4k image (but at half the cost)?
I wonder where I could get my hands on a checkerboard 1080x2 image and a 4k native image to test it out...
I wonder how a checkerboard image (say 1080 x 2) would look downsampled back to 1080p? How far off would it be from a downsampled 4k image (but at half the cost)?
I wonder where I could get my hands on a checkerboard 1080x2 image and a 4k native image to test it out...
That would be a weird way to go around creating an AA'd image. You can just as well use a temporal/spatial reconstruction technique for native res AA.
I guess I was more thinking about if nVidia/AMD comes up with their own driver-level way of implementing checkerboard methods universally into rendering any (or most) game(s). Downsampling from there should be trivial.
I could be wrong, but are there even any injection level temporal AA techniques available? I assumed that that type of reconstruction basically had to be built into a game's rendering path.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
it can be the comfy couch option for people with it plugged to the TV, that 5 games have, and all of them are ports like SFV.
Not that i would feel like using it, but someone might.
fabricated backlash
Member
Even on PC?
capitalCORN
Member
Pretty much. And much of the 'resolution' guesswork was left for users to experiment with to find its native source.
Atraveller
Banned
It was a blurry mess.
I would. I'm a good few feet away from my TV. Haven't sat at a desk to play on a PC for years.
FunkyDealer
Banned
I'd love an option like this on a driver level, so we could use it for whichever games we wanted.
It would need to allow changing the desired target resolution though.
I can imagine it being a lovely feature for most setups.
It would need to allow changing the desired target resolution though.
I can imagine it being a lovely feature for most setups.
icecold1983
Member
it would be great if this came to PC. i watched the tomb raider videos on gamersyde and the image quality is much better than what i could manage on my highly overclocked 980ti. it was a shimmery mess most of the time
fabricated backlash
Member
Why the fuck would they do that? I am a fan of advanced upscaling methods, as it's a clever use of tech and resources when working with strict limitations, but not giving the options to go full res on PC is just mind boggling.
Unknown Soldier
Member
PCs already have enough brute force to do 4K without upscaling tricks and nonsense. Why would we want it?
Well, I only upgraded to 4K because I wanted OLED.
Even on PC. And that was not the only problem.
Atraveller
Banned
I have no idea. The Windows Store version was a mess, not only it looks blurry af, it also doesn't run very well. I hope the problems is fixed for the steam release.
Would there be much difference between this checkerboard thing and simply using 1440p resolution in a 4k monitor?
What would generally give better IQ, native 1440p in a 1440p monitor, or checkerboard 4k in a 4k display (assuming native res is 2k)?
Yeah man how weird would that be if consoles are the way to go if you want IQ in the future...
Sad Affleck
Member
Yeah. There is no point in doing this on a platform that offers hardware choice and graphics options.
Dictator93
Member
A ceteris paribus comparison is need to conclude that the checkboarding is responsible for any less frequency changes / less shader aliasing / less flickering and not instead something else.
As the PC version quite literally only has single frame post-process AA (FXAA or SMAA1x), and this version of the game build might per chance uses a temporal component as part of the upscale, then it is not the upscale working the difference... but rather the conglomeration.
BONKERS
Member
Plus, you have to factor in compression in the comparison. Get a 100% lossless frame exact match comparison and then we'll talk.
Even then, as is, ROTT's AA options on the PC version are shit. Even the SSAA options are shit.
On PC, AA options straight from developers are often shit. They rarely put in real effort with their often bare minimum of work OGSSAA implementations, which just makes the GPU work harder. Not smarter *and* harder.. There's a difference. There's a lot more for AA you can do than just render N more pixels per 1 display pixel and call it a day with a basic linear or box resolve.
Perhaps with the advent of realizing that 4k native or upscaled with no aa or shitty AA doesn't look so great. Along with checkerboard and temporal upsampling(ick) they are perhaps realizing that.
Brerlappin
Member
So am i right in guessing the reason im seeing this "checkerboard" buzzword floating around today, is that the PS4 Pro will be doing a 4K upscale of its games, (by checkerboarding it closer to the metal) rather than actually rendering at 4k?
capitalCORN
Member
Sony da bess.
It's on a game by game basis. Some games will natively render in 4k, others (most) will do this.
Yes, it's built into the machine. Sony were very canny in their presser about not mentioning native 4K rendering for games. It's best case scenario given the specs.
I believe Sony coined the term and are using it in PS VR?
It splits frames into a checkerboard displaying alternate squares for each frame as I understand it, retaining the previous frames squares on the next frame.
Brerlappin
Member
Ah ok. So im guessing PS4 pro is basically going to be mostly used for getting a stable 1080p 60 than anything else. Frankly i find i ridiculous. The PS4 shouldve done that from the get go and not needed a 1.5 model to do it. This gen has been a joke so far.
I wouldn't expect stable 60fps in many games even with Pro TBH.
Actually sony won't allow games that have a multiplayer component to change the framerate cap. Because fairness. And with the CPU staying more or less the same it's kinda bottlenecked.
kraspkibble
Permabanned.
i'd rather just have true 4K. it might be a while before 4k 60fps becomes affordable but it will be amazing when it does get here.
There are games that do it already, like Rainbow Six: Siege. Also, NVIDIA is doing something similar with Simultaneous Multi-Projection where outer portions of the display (which are less noticeable by humans) are rendered at lower resolution while the main portions (where your eyes are usually focusing on) are left at full quality.
Obduction is the first game to support this technique.
Obduction is the first game to support this technique.
Forever Changes
Banned
I wonder why this started to happen, it used to be MSAA which was awesome but now its crappy FXAA or even weirder and blurrier options.
I usually just inject SMAA and downsample for the cleanest IQ.