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Wii U US November Sales Estimated at 149K by Pachter

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On GAf, they're only accurate when its about Nintendo doing poorly. I think we had similar threads when the 3DS came out.

I don't think you saw my earlier post:

Pachter Predictions for Wii U in Comparison to NPD:

November 2012:
450K prediction -> 425K reality
25K over-predicted (-5.55%)

December 2012:
675K prediction -> 463K reality
212K over-predicted (-31.41%)

January 2013:
125K prediction -> 57K reality
68K over-predicted (-54.40%)

February 2013:
80K prediction -> 66K reality
14K over-predicted (-17.50%)

March 2013:
55K prediction -> 68K reality
13K under-predicted (23.63%)

April 2013:
55K prediction -> 37K reality
18K over-predicted (-32.72%)

May 2013:
32K prediction -> 33K reality
1K under-predicted (3.13%)

June 2013:
38K prediction -> 42K reality
4K under-predicted (10.53%)

July 2013:
30K prediction -> 29K reality
1K over-predicted (-3.33%)

August 2013:
30K prediction -> 31K reality
1K under-predicted (3.33%)

September 2013:
55K prediction -> 95K reality
40K under-predicted (72.72%)

October 2013:
75K prediction -> 50K reality
25K over-predicted (-33.33%)

November 2013:
150K prediction

Assuming Pachter's largest under-prediction applies to this month (72.72%), we're still looking at a 259K figure for November 2013...which is terrible and way below the November sales Nintendo needs to demonstrate a glimmer of recovery for the console.

According to his track record, it's not unreasonable to take Pachter's Wii U prediction into consideration from a logical perspective. No one is saying it's 100% accurate.

Personally, I still think Pachter is way too low and the system managed 276K. But that's just my prediction.

In my opinion, any figure below 300K is unacceptable.
 

prag16

Banned
I don't see how this chart tells us anything. He could be 64 out of 72, but what if he was only off by 5%? Also, the people making the predictions are probably not your "average" gaffer.

Hahah, I'm average as fuck and I won both categories of scoring one month in the spring. I think there's a lot of "average" folk.
 

tapedeck

Do I win a prize for talking about my penis on the Internet???
Ok that is pretty bad, I expected a bit more of a boost with SMB3DW and that Zelda bundle. If Wii U doesnt really make up some headway this Christmas Id say its time to wave the white flag.
 

The Boat

Member
2D game, 2D platforming segments. The lengths the anti-DK people went to to support their dream of a new Retro Metroid/IP is exactly what I was pointing out in my post. 2D DK gets announced? Burn down Retro's name and call Nintendo fucking morons for adding another 2D game to the Wii U lineup, but make a 2D Metroid and I'm sure the sour attitude would have been much different considering how requested the game is here. It is a moronic double standard here and I felt like calling it out.

The attitude towards DKC:TF is ridiculous, but 2D Metroid is completely different from Mario and company, simplifying the games to "2D game, 2D platforming segments" is simply wrong, so it wouldn't be much of a double standard if all one complains about is that Wii U has enough 2D platformers.
 

A_Gorilla

Banned
That they are either totally indifferent or already mentally retreating from the home console space. Seriously I know I sound like a broken record but Nintendo seem to have such apathy for the WiiU it's as if it's a chore to even have their name on it.

I feel like at this point the only explanation is that Nintendo might be transitioning somehow. I don't mean that as some cloaked 'Nintendo is doomed' 'Mario for iPhone' post but how Nintendo could expect to compete with MS and Sony with the meagre effort they put into the WiiU thus far is baffling.

Perhaps it was arrogance, not apathy? The only excuse I can give Nintendo for their poor handling of the Wii is that they truly believed (for the first coupled months at least) that the Wii U would sell just as well as the Wii on brand name strength alone. Nintendo was basically being like Sony was in 05/06.
 

Margalis

Banned
I think it would be irresponsible to buy a wii u at this point. There is no guarantee that the system will still be on shelves in a year.

Irresponsible is definitely the right word to use. Because the Wii U has immoral use of textures.
 

Leatherface

Member
My heart hurts for Nintendo sometimes. I have a soft spot since they've basically filled a huge portion of my childhood with great memories. I always secretly want them to succeed no matter how bitter I get. :(
 
I don't think you saw my earlier post:



Assuming Pachter's largest under-prediction applies to this month (72.72%), we're still looking at a 259K figure for November 2013...which is still terrible and way below the November sales Nintendo needs to demonstrate a glimmer of recovery for the console.

According to his track record, it's not unreasonable to take Pachter's Wii U prediction into consideration from a logical perspective. No one is saying it's 100% accurate.

Personally, I still think Pachter is way too low and the system managed 276K. But that's just my predictions.

In my opinion, any figure below 300K is unacceptable.

The last two times he has followed up an under-prediction followed by over-prediction, he has only been off by 1,000 units.
My estimate is therefore 151,000 units.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Hey Amir0x

*sigh* Why do you always have to be right, Log4Girlz? :p

URGH... Are some people on here STILL preaching this 'worse than GameCube' line of deception!?

First, the Dreamcast was out in North America well after it had been on shelves in Japan. In turn, by the time that it launched, it had more games in its library. You can also see that it had a lower point of entry to ownership than the Wii U. The Dreamcast was the first 6th Generation home console to launch.

You can see very clearly in that graph that the GameCube also had a lower point of entry than the Wii U. The GameCube was the third 6th Generation home console to launch. When both price cuts came into play, their prices are HALF of what the Wii U is now, and that was in a better economic climate.

This line of thought is curious because it doesn't actually support your argument that saying "Wii U worse than Gamecube' is a deception. It's actually a series of excuses you are making to explain why the Wii U is doing worse, in your estimation. I think you'll need to go a fair bit further to support your assertion that such a claim is a "deception."

All those things also don't matter the least bit to the analysis of Wii U, because what really matters if the type of profit Nintendo is making off the system. Of course, as was reported, Nintendo was still losing money on every Wii U sold as of August 2013. Now, when you compound that fact with the price cut the system received, it is fair to say they are either still losing money or even losing more now on each system sold.

Similarly, the amount of software Nintendo is selling on the Wii U combined third parties and first party are catastrophic compared to their past trends. It's not even close. As we know, Super Mario 3D World just had the worst debut for a 3D Mario title of all time. Iwata admitted Pikmin 3 and Wonderful 101 didn't sell near as well as hoped, and of course if you saw had bad Pikmin 3 and Wonderful 101 bombed, you'd know that's a optimistic assessment.

What this means is that the real metric by which a company like Nintendo really makes its money - software licensing costs for the platform from third parties and their own software - is at a historic low for the company. Yes, well worse than Gamecube was at this point in time. Since you touch on this point later, we'll come back to this.

Skeleton Statistics won't cut it here (that is, simply quoting numbers without flesh/substance). To understand WHY the GameCube is doing better at this point, I'll leave this below:

"Super Smash Bros. Melee, Pikmin, Animal Crossing, Wave Race: Blue Storm, Super Mario Sunshine, Metroid Prime, Eternal Darkness, LOZ: Wind Waker (in Japan), Starfox Adventures, Mario Party 4, Rogue Squadron 2, NBA Courtside 2002 are some of the exclusives that were released in the GameCube's first year. I could list titles from 2003, if you lived in Europe or Australia, with F-Zero GX, Kirby's Air Ride, Mario Party 5, Mario Kart: Double Dash! among the notable first party titles from that year, and Billy Hatcher & The Giant Egg (console exclusive), Rogue Squadron 3, PN03, and before it was ported elsewhere, Viewtiful Joe among the notable ones from other parties.

They existed next to port jobs and better support from publishers such as Electronic Arts, but you can see very clearly that it had played a lot more of its cards of the time within its first full year - The Wii U can not say that at this stage, and I would put it to you that without the most popular ones by the end of 2003, the GameCube would've fared much worse than the Wii U at a similar point in its lifecycle. You need to understand where Nintendo had been when they were at that point, and just how dominant the PS2 was in that era. One can not say "but these IPs were there" on its own, because it doesn't take into account what preceded it, other events happening, or the reception of those IPs. It does not take into account the re-assessment, how the Wii was realised, and the growth that Nintendo IPs have seen since then. It's also rather moronic to say "just because it happened before..." in one breath, then cite GameCube levels (i.e., the same 'history' which you're disregarding when successes are mentioned) in the next breath."

I want to point out two things here.

● Once again you're actually supporting the argument that Wii U performing worse than Gamecube is not a 'deception.'
● You're simply playing a game of shifting excuses, not actually just accepting the problem at face value.

For example, you're actually perfectly showing why Nintendo's strategy is actually resulting in demonstrably lower sales all around for the system. The argument you appear to be making is "well of course Wii U is doing worse, just look at how much poorer Wii U's game output was in the first year compared to GCN!" This is actually putting you on the side with the rest of us in suggesting Nintendo is failing hard in their handling of Wii U. Which has led us to a situation where, without any deception, it is doing significantly worse than Gamecube in a comparable timeframe. It's actually fairly amusing to read your comment because it appears the only reasons it exists is because you don't want Nintendo to not be defended. The actual content suggests you should agree with us, however.


I went into details about the growth of Nintendo IPs since the GameCube era in that post, but I feel that the above can cast some light on why the GameCube is faring better at a similar point.

But!

Are some people on here STILL preaching this 'worse than GameCube' line of deception!?

!?

Anyway, moving on...

My position is the same as it's always been - that it needs more of the games that people want, and the biggest selling games (Smash Bros., Mario Kart) aren't there yet; However, I am not in the business of predicting numbers.

But it has actually already had a game release that is comparable in significance to both Mario Kart and Smash Bros. NSMB. It had a DLC release too in that series. They did nothing. 3D Mario games may not have the same push as Mario Kart, but this appears to simply be your version of that legendary chalkboard that shows a list of items crossed out that were supposed to "save" the system. I hate to break it to you, but Nintendo 64 had Smash Bros., it had Mario Kart. Gamecube had Smash Bros, it had Mario Kart. Yet these systems performed quite poorly compared to its competitors. As we are now seeing demonstrated again, these franchises are not enough on their own to spur a system to mainstream success. They need to be put alongside content that is appealing to an atypical Nintendo audience.

The problem seems to be that whatever they do now may be too late. I do not see any gamechangers on the horizon that can push the appeal of Wii U beyond the ever shrinking Nintendo fan demographic. It's really a shame, but it appears to be the truth. I want Bayonetta 2 and X as much as the next guy, but do you think the fortunes will change?

You say you're not in the business of predicting numbers, but perhaps you should bow out of all predictions if you're going to be afraid to make the logical conclusion.


Super Mario 3D World will continue to do well

By performing the worst of any 3D Mario title and moving next to no Wii U units worldwide. Yes, I'm sure Nintendo is thrilled. It will certainly change the Wii U's fate. Game is amazing, but this is a clinical sales discussion and a response to why Wii U is doing well worse than Gamecube

However, one must note that the Mario & Luigi Bundle is currently the most popular, and that NSMBU saw a rise, too. I would imagine that there are enough Mario platform games for people to play should they bite now, and would say that those who bought that bundle, and other prospective buyers will most probably buy Super Mario 3D World at some point - This is why they are considered as 'Evergreen'. They might also want to play other games on it, so that they don't suffer from a Mario overload (for want of a better expression) - You can see in threads on here, that some new owners bought Pikmin 3 or The Wonderful 101, for example, and that those waiting to bite are asking for recommendations. There is a sense that its tide is making a turn - More positivity in Wii U-related articles, and a brighter change with regard to perceptions. To reinforce those statements, you can see in the Media Create threads of the last fortnight that following the release of Super Mario 3D World, its numbers picked up, and in the second week, those numbers continued to elevate. There are differences between complete disinterest (which isn't the case here), waiting for the games that you want (which IS happening - some are waiting for Bayonetta 2, Monolith Soft's X, Smash Bros., Mario Kart 8, etc.), and waiting for the right time, whenever that may be, to bite (this could be when there are enough games that one wants to play to justify the purchase, or waiting for a $249 entry point, lots of possibilities here). It is important to differentiate between each, and I feel that time and time again, many fail to do this.

The only way to get a sense of the tide turning is to actually see the tide start to turn. Ergo, if Pachter is even close to right for his prediction, not only isn't the tide turning, it's actually regressing. The ocean is being depleted of of all its water, in fact, if such numbers are even close to true.

From anywhere we have up to date sales, the only conclusion is that no tide has been turned, except in that if you don't care about sales at all the system finally has a fairly nice little library of games to play (I endorsed buying a Wii U over a PS4 or XB1 this season).

I will say, I don't think any price drop short of $199 will make any significant change in its fate either. It's simply that dire a performance at the moment. And even then, our only hope is that it may eventually match Gamecube, and Nintendo certainly won't profit as much as they did even in that scenario. So how do you think they would view that event?

Also, Nintendo released a new LOZ game on the 3DS (According to Iwata, the 3DS is expected to lead Nintendo's drive for 2013-14), and Super Mario 3D World on the same day as the XBox One - that was 22nd November in North America. You had the PS4 launch a week before it, too. So, if we can agree that more or most people had bitten when SM3DWorld released, then one would have to look at what was achieved in the last nine days of that calendar month, and if the majority of units for November were sold in that time, it is actually rather remarkable for a console still with many cards to play, and in the face of two other console launches. I'm saying that a greater insight is needed here. I'm also saying that for a console with such cards available to it, it's in a better position than many on here think it is, and there is no reason for Nintendo to panic. They'll be fine. During its life, it can still hit a profitable $249 point of entry, then a profitable $199, and even a profitable point below that when it reaches its twilight years. It is worth noting that the PS360 consoles did not achieve a full recovery until 2011, some 5 and 6 years after their releases - So, writing off the Wii U at this point is not right or proper, in my opinion. I'm not in the business of predicting numbers. I'm not saying that it will rise to DS heights, and I'm not saying anything about 'winning' the 8th Generation, only that it is extremely misleading to say that it is doing worse than the GameCube, when it's very apparent that without its top cards, without notable support from other parties, and without a stronger marketing drive, it would've suffered a significantly worse fate at the same points.

Again, I do not think you grasp quite the scale of how much worse Wii U is performing than even PS3 or Gamecube or any other major console release. You'd have to look at Vita or some non-major console release to see anything remotely similar to a November month being 150k in only its second November.

This is a system which is doing so bad that third parties are already hesitant, and that issue will once again be compounded by the fact that Nintendo had to do their "thing" and make a console that will be significantly more difficult to port games to from PS4 and XBO due to the power differential.

What we have therefore is what's called a "self-propagating" cycle of 'impending doom', wherein they need critical games to start to turn things around, but the sheer atrociousness of its performance assures those games dry up once the generational shift has been complete (i.e., cross gen games start to fade out as they always do). And Nintendo has not shown so far with Wii U either a willingness to really showcase something that blows the public away to justify the existence of the GamePad (and thus, the price problem) and they've been shockingly uncreative, if I may insert my own opinion. They're really playing a 'by-the-numbers' game that simply will never work due to the current environment.

The example I use is how DKC: TF may indeed be wonderful, but it's doubling down on the problem Nintendo has - it's playing to the same audience which is already satiated with colorful platformers on Wii U, and the same audience who would have already got the system due to loving Nintendo franchises. Strategically, it makes no sense given the Wii U's current problems. Nintendo needs to expand beyond its stifling fanbase, and it is quite obviously failing to do so by any metric.


Furthermore, Nintendo are a compassionate conservative company. They won't kill off the Wii U early, when they've just made a transition to HD game development to release a more powerful system, and potentially quadruple their development costs, which happened with first party studios on the PS4 at launch. They are in a position where a Wii U Fire Emblem game would be viable with sales of 700,000 units - that is profitable to a point of satisfactory return on investment, profitable, or, at worst, breaking even, all on a system showing noticeable steps. With this in mind, I suspect that they will stick with it for quite a while, because it's very much in their interests. Still, the GameCube didn't cease production after having played more of its cards, and it was there for over five years, so it is rotten, premature, fanboyist folly to declare 'death'. As for 'sold at a loss' - No. It has been known that one game makes the transaction profitable, and it won't be sold at a loss forever. Still, this loss is in the U.S. - $299 is NOT the same as €299, or in Britain, £249. They're in the business of making profits, so, where a loss is made, it is natural that they will raise that concern, as investors will want to make the greatest returns possible.

You may be right about Nintendo sticking with it for a while, because even I do not feel that Nintendo thinks it's smart to abandon ship. They've gone too far, have shown an unwillingness to be aggressive so far, and so I think they will continue this path for a few more heartbreaking years. But it does not change that the Wii U is quite factually performing well worse than Gamecube at this time. So, again, I submit your argument that such a line is a 'deception' is a failure, by your very own words.
 
I don't think you saw my earlier post:



Assuming Pachter's largest under-prediction applies to this month (72.72%), we're still looking at a 259K figure for November 2013...which is still terrible and way below the November sales Nintendo needs to demonstrate a glimmer of recovery for the console.

According to his track record, it's not unreasonable to take Pachter's Wii U prediction into consideration from a logical perspective. No one is saying it's 100% accurate.

Personally, I still think Pachter is way too low and the system managed 276K. But that's just my predictions.

In my opinion, any figure below 300K is unacceptable.
I think if Wii U sales was remotely close to what Pathter is predicted, Nintendo would at least temporarily cut the price in November like what they did with 3DS last year.
 

Margalis

Banned
As has been noted, he would have to be off by an entire order of magnitude for these sales to be anything less than awful, especially for those who were holding out hope that Mario would be the pudgy Italian savior of the beleaguered system.

This is obviously false and you presumably don't know what an order of magnitude is.


He essentially could be off the mark by twice as much as he's ever been on monthly hardware predictions and this would still be completely horrible news.

2x is not an order of magnitude.

Why use a term when you clearly don't know what it means?
 

JDeluis

Member
I don't think you saw my earlier post:



Assuming Pachter's largest under-prediction applies to this month (72.72%), we're still looking at a 259K figure for November 2013...which is still terrible and way below the November sales Nintendo needs to demonstrate a glimmer of recovery for the console.

According to his track record, it's not unreasonable to take Pachter's Wii U prediction into consideration from a logical perspective. No one is saying it's 100% accurate.

Personally, I still think Pachter is way too low and the system managed 276K. But that's just my predictions.

In my opinion, any figure below 300K is unacceptable.

Sorry I must have missed it. Good info as well. I just hope he's under-predicted by a lot this time :(
 

John Harker

Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
i warned you all the stuff i've been seeing the past two months haven't been gud.

edit: actually, i'm not making any 'guesses', so don't ask ;)
 

Jinfash

needs 2 extra inches
Assuming Pachter's largest under-prediction applies to this month (72.72%), we're still looking at a 259K figure for November 2013...which is terrible and way below the November sales Nintendo needs to demonstrate a glimmer of recovery for the console.
Thank you for this sobering update.
 
I think it would be irresponsible to buy a wii u at this point. There is no guarantee that the system will still be on shelves in a year.

When it hits fire sale prices it would be ok to buy it. Same as other unique, but failed, items.

$300 for a last gen console that may be dead within months? That's a bad purchase. Better off spending $100 more for a true next gen system that will be around in 5 years.


And miss out on some of the best games out there? No thanks.
 

Gartooth

Member
The attitude towards DKC:TF is ridiculous, but 2D Metroid is completely different from Mario and company, simplifying the games to "2D game, 2D platforming segments" is simply wrong, so it wouldn't be much of a double standard if all one complains about is that Wii U has enough 2D platformers.

Your right, 2D Metroid in design is completely different from the other platformers and I've played enough of the Metroid games to know that well. I was intentionally generalizing it as a joke just like many were generalizing DK. (literally any other studio could make DKC etc.)

Regardless, if Pachter is right about Wii U then I don't think there is any "What game can save the Wii U?". Mario Kart may help, but it won't save the system. Everything else might as well be a nonfactor (Smash, Zelda) considering that franchises like 2D Mario, 3D Mario, Wii Fit, Wii Sports, etc. were unable to turn the system around. As many perceived, Wii U is in a completely different boat from 3DS. The latter just needed a price slash and a good game library to get out of its slump, Wii U on the other hand seems like it is doomed to low sales simply because the market has no interest in the device.
 
And miss out on some of the best games out there? No thanks.

As much as I love my Nintendo, 3-4 games a year does not justify the purchase at the current price. I have to say that even if they sell that much this November, I still think they should ride out this horrendous failure and not cut and run. It does seem that with each passing month 15 million even looks unreachable for the console considering 2013 and 2014 will probably be the Wii U's best years given what released. Price cuts only are a temporary solution, so by the time Mario Kart, Smash, Yoshi, and DK are out there won't be much left to push the system.
 

Margalis

Banned
i warned you all the stuff i've been seeing the past two months haven't been gud.

Are we still pretending that you're some sort of insider?

After NPD numbers come out you say "yep, that's what I expected" and say that games that didn't chart sold about 10k - as if doing either of those takes any special insight.

This kind of posting is so pathetic. If you have actual information nothing prevents you from sharing it. You've been hearing things but you can't say what - because reasons. Sure.

Looking back at your old posts, your "predictions" are thing like that in October not many games would sell well beyond GTA and Pokemon. As if anyone couldn't have predicted that. NPDs have been low except for the top 2 or 3 games for literally years.
 

PBY

Banned
*sigh* Why do you always have to be right, Log4Girlz? :p



This line of thought is curious because it doesn't actually support your argument that saying "Wii U worse than Gamecube' is a deception. It's actually a series of excuses you are making to explain why the Wii U is doing worse, in your estimation. I think you'll need to go a fair bit further to support your assertion that such a claim is a "deception."

All those things also don't matter the least bit to the analysis of Wii U, because what really matters if the type of profit Nintendo is making off the system. Of course, as was reported, Nintendo was still losing money on every Wii U sold as of August 2013. Now, when you compound that fact with the price cut the system received, it is fair to say they are either still losing money or even losing more now on each system sold.

Similarly, the amount of software Nintendo is selling on the Wii U combined third parties and first party are catastrophic compared to their past trends. It's not even close. As we know, Super Mario 3D World just had the worst debut for a 3D Mario title of all time. Iwata admitted Pikmin 3 and Wonderful 101 didn't sell near as well as hoped, and of course if you saw had bad Pikmin 3 and Wonderful 101 bombed, you'd know that's a optimistic assessment.

What this means is that the real metric by which a company like Nintendo really makes its money - software licensing costs for the platform from third parties and their own software - is at a historic low for the company. Yes, well worse than Gamecube was at this point in time. Since you touch on this point later, we'll come back to this.



I want to point out two things here.

● Once again you're actually supporting the argument that Wii U performing worse than Gamecube is not a 'deception.'
● You're simply playing a game of shifting excuses, not actually just accepting the problem at face value.

For example, you're actually perfectly showing why Nintendo's strategy is actually resulting in demonstrably lower sales all around for the system. The argument you appear to be making is "well of course Wii U is doing worse, just look at how much poorer Wii U's game output was in the first year compared to GCN!" This is actually putting you on the side with the rest of us in suggesting Nintendo is failing hard in their handling of Wii U. Which has led us to a situation where, without any deception, it is doing significantly worse than Gamecube in a comparable timeframe. It's actually fairly amusing to read your comment because it appears the only reasons it exists is because you don't want Nintendo to not be defended. The actual content suggests you should agree with us, however.




But!



!?

Anyway, moving on...



But it has actually already had a game release that is comparable in significance to both Mario Kart and Smash Bros. NSMB. It had a DLC release too in that series. They did nothing. 3D Mario games may not have the same push as Mario Kart, but this appears to simply be your version of that legendary chalkboard that shows a list of items crossed out that were supposed to "save" the system. I hate to break it to you, but Nintendo 64 had Smash Bros., it had Mario Kart. Gamecube had Smash Bros, it had Mario Kart. Yet these systems performed quite poorly compared to its competitors. As we are now seeing demonstrated again, these franchises are not enough on their own to spur a system to mainstream success. They need to be put alongside content that is appealing to an atypical Nintendo audience.

The problem seems to be that whatever they do now may be too late. I do not see any gamechangers on the horizon that can push the appeal of Wii U beyond the ever shrinking Nintendo fan demographic. It's really a shame, but it appears to be the truth. I want Bayonetta 2 and X as much as the next guy, but do you think the fortunes will change?

You say you're not in the business of predicting numbers, but perhaps you should bow out of all predictions if you're going to be afraid to make the logical conclusion.




By performing the worst of any 3D Mario title and moving next to no Wii U units worldwide. Yes, I'm sure Nintendo is thrilled. It will certainly change the Wii U's fate. Game is amazing, but this is a clinical sales discussion and a response to why Wii U is doing well worse than Gamecube



The only way to get a sense of the tide turning is to actually see the tide start to turn. Ergo, if Pachter is even close to right for his prediction, not only isn't the tide turning, it's actually regressing. The ocean is being depleted of of all its water, in fact, if such numbers are even close to true.

From anywhere we have up to date sales, the only conclusion is that no tide has been turned, except in that if you don't care about sales at all the system finally has a fairly nice little library of games to play (I endorsed buying a Wii U over a PS4 or XB1 this season).

I will say, I don't think any price drop short of $199 will make any significant change in its fate either. It's simply that dire a performance at the moment. And even then, our only hope is that it may eventually match Gamecube, and Nintendo certainly won't profit as much as they did even in that scenario. So how do you think they would view that event?



Again, I do not think you grasp quite the scale of how much worse Wii U is performing than even PS3 or Gamecube or any other major console release. You'd have to look at Vita or some non-major console release to see anything remotely similar to a November month being 150k in only its second November.

This is a system which is doing so bad that third parties are already hesitant, and that issue will once again be compounded by the fact that Nintendo had to do their "thing" and make a console that will be significantly more difficult to port games to from PS4 and XBO due to the power differential.

What we have therefore is what's called a "self-propagating" cycle of 'impending doom', wherein they need critical games to start to turn things around, but the sheer atrociousness of its performance assures those games dry up once the generational shift has been complete (i.e., cross gen games start to fade out as they always do). And Nintendo has not shown so far with Wii U either a willingness to really showcase something that blows the public away to justify the existence of the GamePad (and thus, the price problem) and they've been shockingly uncreative, if I may insert my own opinion. They're really playing a 'by-the-numbers' game that simply will never work due to the current environment.

The example I use is how DKC: TF may indeed be wonderful, but it's doubling down on the problem Nintendo has - it's playing to the same audience which is already satiated with colorful platformers on Wii U, and the same audience who would have already got the system due to loving Nintendo franchises. Strategically, it makes no sense given the Wii U's current problems. Nintendo needs to expand beyond its stifling fanbase, and it is quite obviously failing to do so by any metric.




You may be right about Nintendo sticking with it for a while, because even I do not feel that Nintendo thinks it's smart to abandon ship. They've gone too far, have shown an unwillingness to be aggressive so far, and so I think they will continue this path for a few more heartbreaking years. But it does not change that the Wii U is quite factually performing well worse than Gamecube at this time. So, again, I submit your argument that such a line is a 'deception' is a failure, by your very own words.

I usually disagree with a lot that you say- but this is what I and probably many others were thinking.
 

balohna

Member
The "well it's gonna die, no reason to buy it now" people in this thread... I just don't get that mentality at all. Nintendo is stubborn enough that they'll support it for at least a few more years, and it has good games right now. If you're interested in buying it at all you might as well buy it.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Furthermore, Nintendo are a compassionate conservative company.

You must have conveniently forgot the many times that Nintendo has been fined and taken to court for monopolistic practices and price fixing against the consumer. They do not care about us. They only want to make money out of us.
 

flippedb

Banned
I expect 350k to 400k. I don't see it going lower. I think something that's been affecting this console terribly, is the incredibly large amount of bad press it's getting. Media has been talking about low sales ever since it came out, while suggesting a possible price-drop, which, at this point, is what many people are expecting. However, during BF the deals were almost non-existent, and the lowest it got was $250 in a couple retailers. I know assume many people were disappointed by that partial price reduction, so they will keep waiting until $250 becomes the standard price.

I think I'm still getting one for Christmas, so fuck the sales, I'll be busy playing some games.
 
As much as I love my Nintendo, 3-4 games a year does not justify the purchase at the current price. I have to say that even if they sell that much this November, I still think they should ride out this horrendous failure and not cut and run.

When every game is top notch, I think 5 games is enough. Then again, I own almost every console and have a huge backlog. I already have too many Wii U games to play atm.

If they manage to get us Bayo2, Smash, Mario Kart, SMTxFE, Yarn Yoshi, and X. I'll be satisfied.
 

liger05

Member
Did Nintendo not learn from last year? Last year the deals for the 3DS on Black Friday were non existent and they had a bad November because of it.
 

Calamari41

41 > 38
Browsing through the PS Store on my new Vita has been a revelation. If Nintendo just launched a modern eShop where you could buy every first party game they've made from NES through Wii, the system would sell on that alone. Not to even mention the unfathomable amounts of cold cash they would make on the sales of the games themselves. Hell, just NES through N64 would be a good start.

Now I understand what everybody has been bitching about with regards to Nintendo's online experience.
 
Are we still pretending that you're some sort of insider?

After NPD numbers come out you say "yep, that's what I expected" and say that games that didn't chart sold about 10k - as if doing either of those takes any special insight.

This kind of posting is so pathetic. If you have actual information nothing prevents you from sharing it. You been hearing things but you can't say what - because reasons. Sure.

Speaking of pathetic. He's can say whatever the hell he wants and has given valuable insight. What good have you done exactly? And I can't believe anyone would be stupid enough to think the bolded is true.
 

Jinfash

needs 2 extra inches
Are we still pretending that you're some sort of insider?

After NPD numbers come out you say "yep, that's what I expected" and say that games that didn't chart sold about 10k - as if doing either of those takes any special insight.

This kind of posting is so pathetic. If you have actual information nothing prevents you from sharing it. You been hearing things but you can't say what - because reasons. Sure.
Was there some sort of incident that damaged Harker's credibility that I wasn't aware of? He's been around for as long as I can remember, has a solid track record, and is vetted by other credible sources/leakers.
 

Gartooth

Member
Eh, I'm sure DKCR2, Yarn Yoshi, Kirby, and the inevitable NSMBWU2 and DKCR3 will right the good ship Wii U.

Bayonetta 2, X, Zelda, and Metroid wouldn't either. I don't think the game library is the cause, rather the Wii U is just considered flat-out undesirable. It is too expensive for the casuals, with the "hook" of the Gamepad unappealing to them. The hardcore don't want it given the weak technology, lack of 3rd party support, poor online infrastructure, in addition to most likely Nintendo's awful reputation they got in previous generations. At this point I don't think there is much saving it for either end of the market, but if Nintendo had to choose one I would say that focusing on cutting the price and going for the family market is a better move simply because the image Nintendo has is much more appealing to them than the hardcore market.
 

AniHawk

Member
Browsing through the PS Store on my new Vita has been a revelation. If Nintendo just launched a modern eShop where you could buy every first party game they've made from NES through Wii, the system would sell on that alone. Not to even mention the unfathomable amounts of cold cash they would make on the sales of the games themselves. Hell, just NES through N64 would be a good start.

Now I understand what everybody has been bitching about with regards to Nintendo's online experience.

the virtual console on the wii is fairly fucking large. and they had to start from scratch for the eshop.

and the eshop is different across the 3ds and wii u. how. what.
 

Damaniel

Banned
I don't think you saw my earlier post:



Assuming Pachter's largest under-prediction applies to this month (72.72%), we're still looking at a 259K figure for November 2013...which is terrible and way below the November sales Nintendo needs to demonstrate a glimmer of recovery for the console.

According to his track record, it's not unreasonable to take Pachter's Wii U prediction into consideration from a logical perspective. No one is saying it's 100% accurate.

Personally, I still think Pachter is way too low and the system managed 276K. But that's just my prediction.

In my opinion, any figure below 300K is unacceptable.

Really, any figure below 500K is unacceptable. Anything below 300K is absolutely devastating. Even in my most pessimistic moments I wouldn't have assumed a number as low as 150K.

(I can count myself among the 150K, at least. That ebay/Buy.com deal was too good to pass up...)
 

B.O.O.M

Member
Are we still pretending that you're some sort of insider?

After NPD numbers come out you say "yep, that's what I expected" and say that games that didn't chart sold about 10k - as if doing either of those takes any special insight.

This kind of posting is so pathetic. If you have actual information nothing prevents you from sharing it. You've been hearing things but you can't say what - because reasons. Sure.

We were pretending? what's going on here. Harker is legit. He has shared info that showed how fucked Nintendo is, especially from a third party stand point several times already.
 
Was there some sort of incident that damaged Harker's credibility that I wasn't aware of? He's been around for as long as I can remember, has a solid track record, and is vetted by other credible sources/leakers.

He's probably just pissy Harker is saying something negative about Nintendo.
 
This is obviously false and you presumably don't know what an order of magnitude is.

2x is not an order of magnitude.

Why use a term when you clearly don't know what it means?

Are you really going to engage in this sort of semantic pedantry?

Fine. The numbers would need to be precisely ten times what he predicted to even come close to what the people hoping Mario would "save" the Wii U were hoping for. Even at four, five, or six times as much they would be poor sales numbers for Nintendo in November, and an extreme shortfall in light of the nine million sales prediction Iwata refused to relinquish at the recent Nintendo investor call.

Do you want me to use percentages? Do we need to turn this into a math terminology lecture, or can you maybe exercise judicious use of critical reading skills and apply some context rather than picking at specific term usage in a way that doesn't change the point of what's been discussed in any way?
 

SmokyDave

Member
Speaking of pathetic. He's can say whatever the hell he wants and has given valuable insight. What good have you done exactly? And I can't believe anyone would be stupid enough to think the bolded is true.
Margalis is doing a lil' viral marketing for Cranky Kong.
 

Amir0x

Banned
i warned you all the stuff i've been seeing the past two months haven't been gud.

edit: actually, i'm not making any 'guesses', so don't ask ;)

Oh man, this is going to be a rough NPD...

I usually disagree with a lot that you say- but this is what I and probably many others were thinking.

I just hope whether one agrees or disagrees, they feel the point is well reasoned. That's all I ever strive for. I'm passionate though so I tend to be hyperbolic :p
 

Road

Member
If Wii U had sold only 150k in November we'd already have heard of mass sudoku inside Nintendo.










But what do I know, I said the same thing about it selling less than 100k in January...
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
..rather the Wii U is just considered flat-out undesirable. It is too expensive for the casuals, with the "hook" of the Gamepad unappealing to them. The hardcore don't want it given the weak technology, lack of 3rd party support, poor online infrastructure, in addition to most likely Nintendo's awful reputation they got in previous generations.

I think this is key. It's like Nintendo said what's the cheapest technology we can use that will just provide enough performance for HD gaming at 720p.
If WiiU was twice as powerful, I feel the launch software would have been a lot stronger and more third parties would have been interested in developing for it.
 

Calamari41

41 > 38
the virtual console on the wii is fairly fucking large. and they had to start from scratch for the eshop.

and the eshop is different across the 3ds and wii u. how. what.

Yeah, the Wii virtual console was very solid by the end. That's where the Wii U VC should have started. Obviously it's way too much to ask for them to have every game from Super Mario Bros through Skyward Sword up and running day one, but God damn. We're sitting here a year after release and there's three pages of games, half of which are no-name first year NES games.
 
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