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Xbox Project Scorpio Announced - 6TFlops, 320GB/s - Fall 2017
- Thread starter wachie
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hanspampel
Banned
Once again, I haven't done that. I, over and over and over again, have said I am looking forward to the system, that it's going to be cool, that it will be the main place I play when it comes out. Those are all signs of positivity.
But if someone came in here really excited that every Scorpio was coming with a real sex doll, it wouldn't be negative of me to point out they are incorrect, nor would that person be exhibiting more positivity than I. They would just be wrong.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I have now checked DF and they do indeed talk about the PSU so my bad but the the image purporting to be the dev kit still doesn't seem right when compared to the official (retail I assume) images.
I can't see how the dev kit ports being at the top (motherboard at top of case?) could work or why it would seem to differ to the retail images of how the components fit together as shown in the DF article?
So the dev kit image above is either very different inside or that image is fake/wrong.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
I think it's a safe bet that the dev kit is different in form than the retail unit.
ethomaz
Banned
I can only say that the first thing we noticed with the motherboards pics are that it is a motherboard to be used on top of the unit with fans on bottom.
That was pretty clear by the images released by MS.
That not what you see in most PC cases but it is not crazy or uncommon either.
That was pretty clear by the images released by MS.
That not what you see in most PC cases but it is not crazy or uncommon either.
hanspampel
Banned
Wasn't there rumors from jez, that there is no more ventilation on top. Only from the side.
So a flipped motherboard direction is possible?
The original Ps4 did that, too
So a flipped motherboard direction is possible?
The original Ps4 did that, too
Bits N Pieces
Member
I know you probably can't say but have you noticed any differences in dev time or ease of functionality when using the Scorpio dev kit over the OG One? I think I read they had devs in mind when they were building it.
for yes and :| for no I have now checked DF and they do indeed talk about the PSU so my bad but the the image purporting to be the dev kit still doesn't seem right when compared to the official (retail I assume) images.
I can't see how the dev kit ports being at the top (motherboard at top of case?) could work or why it would seem to differ to the retail images of how the components fit together as shown in the DF article?
So the dev kit image above is either very different inside or that image is fake/wrong.
I've been trying to figure it out, the vent itself on that image looks inelegant , especially as we know that the rear vent only occupies one half the width of the machine.
For the front of the dev kit and that image to match, the official retail renders.
This would actually be the bottom of the unit. When you compare the front panel and inparticular, the front of the disc drive, this appears to be the case.
However, it looks like the power connector is on the wrong side of the ports compared to the purported image of the rear.
I really don't expect the retail unit to look much (or any) different to the dev kit, so I'm not sure.
The XDK has always been relatively fine in term of ease of use. The problem was the design of the Xbox One, which wasn't the best environment. Scorpio is obviously much better in that regard, but because devs still need to make XBO versions, the amount of work has just gone up overall.I know you probably can't say but have you noticed any differences in dev time or ease of functionality when using the Scorpio dev kit over the OG One? I think I read they had devs in mind when they were building it.
If the Scorpio was replacing the XBO, then your answer would be
Where have there been any stats or quotes on how much of the CPU is being used in Scorpio?
Bits N Pieces
Member
The XDK has always been relatively fine in term of ease of use. The problem was the design of the Xbox One, which wasn't the best environment. Scorpio is obviously much better in that regard, but because devs still need to make XBO versions, the amount of work has just gone up overall.
If the Scorpio was replacing the XBO, then your answer would be
Ahh, that's interesting. Positives with Scorpio negated by the XB1. I'm not exactly tech savvy but I do find it all interesting and its great to get insight when we can
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
That's exactly what I was getting at.
Also, should we fly to Redmond or just tweet Phil our résumé's?
I'm ok with carpooling. Though it's approx. 2160 miles to get there from where I live.
I'm still gunning for,
Xbox One,
There's just so much they could do with it.
Kinda like this too. I still like just calling it Xbox. Plain and simple back to it's roots.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
The XDK has always been relatively fine in term of ease of use. The problem was the design of the Xbox One, which wasn't the best environment. Scorpio is obviously much better in that regard, but because devs still need to make XBO versions, the amount of work has just gone up overall.
If the Scorpio was replacing the XBO, then your answer would be
You're saying devs have to make 2 separate versions?
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
The XDK has always been relatively fine in term of ease of use. The problem was the design of the Xbox One, which wasn't the best environment. Scorpio is obviously much better in that regard, but because devs still need to make XBO versions, the amount of work has just gone up overall.
If the Scorpio was replacing the XBO, then your answer would be
How is that holding the scorpio versions back though? Just lack of time for optimization? I know on PC with varying tiers of hardware devs start development with scaleability in mind. And I am fairly certain that MS has also started using a scaleable dev model for their first party games for xbpa. Project Helix I think it's called. Am curious to know why it would be different here.
chromatic9
Member
Xbox Yolo
I thought this was always going to be the case.
The XDK has always been relatively fine in term of ease of use. The problem was the design of the Xbox One, which wasn't the best environment. Scorpio is obviously much better in that regard, but because devs still need to make XBO versions, the amount of work has just gone up overall.
If the Scorpio was replacing the XBO, then your answer would be
Matt, do you have a Dev kit? Or have you specifically developed for Scorpio?
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I like either just the Xbox or Xbox Infinity. I think it'd be a poor decision to continue with the Xbox One branding if they could figure a way out of it. That is to say, if they could rebrand, but also maintain the perception that it isn't a new console generation entirely.
Putting distance between the Scorpio and the Xbox One would be a smart call. The PS4 just has too controlling a presence in the "conversation." Imagine the Scorpio launching to the online discourse being "PS4 Pro vs. Xbox One Elite," and how those conversations would just boil down to PS4 vs. Xbox One for the larger audience.
Hell, maybe even rebrand the Xbox One in some way as the Xbox Infinity pre-cursor. Double down on the Scorpio being a step forward.
Just thinking out loud here. I'm excited for the Scorpio like a lot of folk here, but the Xbox One ___ speculation just doesn't sound effective. It's why folk like "Scorpio" by itself so much, because most folk know the Xbox One branding is pretty weak right now.
Putting distance between the Scorpio and the Xbox One would be a smart call. The PS4 just has too controlling a presence in the "conversation." Imagine the Scorpio launching to the online discourse being "PS4 Pro vs. Xbox One Elite," and how those conversations would just boil down to PS4 vs. Xbox One for the larger audience.
Hell, maybe even rebrand the Xbox One in some way as the Xbox Infinity pre-cursor. Double down on the Scorpio being a step forward.
Just thinking out loud here. I'm excited for the Scorpio like a lot of folk here, but the Xbox One ___ speculation just doesn't sound effective. It's why folk like "Scorpio" by itself so much, because most folk know the Xbox One branding is pretty weak right now.
Eh, not exactly, but they are very different systems that of course can lend themselves to varying degrees of individual care to make the most out of their respective platforms, depending on how much work a dev wants to do.
In not sure what you mean, I never said "holding back" in that post. I was talking about the totality of dev time.
I've said before that we have them.
We already knew this, right? To fully take advantage of the hardware, existing games are going to need a Scorpio patch, and new games are going to at least have a version compiled with Scorpio settings turned on.
Just like that other console with the mid-generation hardware upgrade.
Bits N Pieces
Member
I was more thinking that the esram was gone and it has a new unified memory pool, that must mean your instructing it to do different tasks, there must be other advantages and disadvantages as well I'd imagine.
I don't think that's a good way to explain it.
It's more like PC development: you make a single game, but it's scalable to work on multiple hardware configurations-
In the case of Xbox, there just two configurations to consider.
To take full advantage of the scorpio's capabilities, there will need to be a patch, because typically a games 4K assets won't be able to fit on a disc.
Yeah, that's what I figured.
Prophecy650
Member
XBOX PRO
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
This is what it thought. Because they mentioned something about the extra ram having some kind API that accounts for the eSRAM didn't they?
I assumed it would be a patch at worst. Matt's post made it sound like 2 versions are being made, which I just wouldn't believe because not many devs are going to want to make 2 versions of their game for the non market leader.
JayhawkerStL
Banned
You know what they call people that believe it is their mission in life to temper everyone else's excitement?
People we place on ignore. The world suddenly becomes more fun again.
I think, for the most part, there are is going to be a general set of data applicable/ executable by both the XB1 and the Scorpio, with Scorpio having specific extensions and features that take advantage of its hardware.
I think what we will see is; if you have an XB1 and purchase a game, it will download only the data executable by the XB1, while the same will apply if you have a Scorpio.
I guess it depends what you mean by "version." It's running off the same code, but the Scorpio game can have different settings, assets, and more if a dev wants to do that work. Or they can do very little and essentially there would just be increased performance up to whatever limits are in place.
Calling it the Scorpio version and the XBO version isn't inaccurate considering they are closed environments with two presets, but profile also works.
Yeah the Scorpio interprets the exact same calls that the OG xbox 1 does.
Developers make sure the game runs on Xbox one. That same code will run on the Scorpio, which enough overhead to turn on additional graphical features. And there's enough bandwidth to load better assets.
Liabe Brave
Member
I apologize, I'm not clear what the "it" refers to. Can you elaborate what you mean here?
It doesn't. But that's because it's about the command processor. You'll see my use of the "all the functionality" clause was instead referring to the audio block. Here's the DF quote regarding that:
Please ignore the part where Mr. Leadbetter appears not to know what HRTF refers to.Richard Leadbetter said:
This is a weird thing to say. Games are being developed on and for Scorpio right now, using all the active hardware. Microsoft were clearly not referring to the launch date when they said the commander processor's potential is not being used yet. Otherwise the article would've just been them saying, "Well here's what we built, but we're not using any of it yet" over and over.
They said it has more capability, which is not being used. At no point did they say it handles DX12 extremely better. In fact, they said the exact opposite: that previous Xbox Ones receive about the same boost with DX12 and the customized command processor.
Where do you think you heard this? It's not something Microsoft has said. Scorpio does not perform intrinsically better at DX12 than prior Xbox Ones on a per-task basis. (Of course it does perform better overall, due to the increase in clockspeeds, CU count, etc. But that's about a rise in paper specs, not about its efficiency in using them.)
LukasTaves
Member
My original point was comparing the Scorpio cpu to Pro's cpu. I said the gap is wider than the 9% (but to what extent I have no idea) given by the overclock because on scorpio there's more co processors offloading the cpu.
Then I said the audio block of Ps4 is not as capable, giving you a presentation from Sony itself telling developers that they have to use cpu time for some audio tasks that are handled by the audio block on xbone. (I believe the whole controversy started even with Killzone using a large potion of 1 cpu core for audio right when the generation started). The audio block on Scorpio might be the same on xbone, but it's definitely not the same on Ps4.
As for the dx12 co processor, Ms says that yes, it's an evolution of the one already presented on xbone, but they also said that on Xbone it was need tens of thousands to hundred of thousands instructions for handling draw calls, and on scorpio that number drastically decreases to 9-11 (not thousands) practically freeing the cpu of that burden. Not sure why you are focusing on the fact that xbone already had an earlier version of this, when they are giving the practical result for Scorpio.
Something that yet again it's not present on Ps4 as draw calls still demand some cpu time:
http://www.redgamingtech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/ps4-cpu-decent-sucker-punch-1024x571.jpg
(notice that's ten thousand draw calls, in the same range Ms said it was needed for xbone)
Now, you made a valid point that this didn't benefited xbone that much, and indeed it hasn't (though the gpu not being the same makes this comparison difficult to make), but even that Ms addressed, saying that on Xbone a significant amount of cpu time was lost due latency and cache misses and that they have improved that, and that the cost for virtualization wasn't trivial, and according to them they modified the cpu at a core level adding the instructions need for virtualization to reduce wasted cpu time.
Not to mention they also said they improved cpu/gpu coherency to make it easier/more performant to use gpgpu techniques when the cpu isn't up to task.
We don't know to which extent modifications similar to that were made on Ps4, but Ms did noticed that all those modifications weren't on xbone.
I'm not saying that this will give scorpio Cpu twice or anything close to that more cpu performance than pro, even so because some of those tasks occupy like a fraction of a core, but there's more cpu time available to games, however small that might be.
A good point of comparison would be Just Cause 3. Without any updates boosting the resolution on Pro the game is very cpu bound already, so a looking at ho the game runs on scorpio should give a direct show off the cpus.
Profiles is probably better, since there's nothing stopping developers from being more liberal with how they let players customize the experience.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
You are correct, I am swamped with kids atm. But still, the question you answered was in comparison. He just wanted to know if there was a difference. What you basically said was yes... but it doesn't matter because of x...
I used to lay tile. If someone asked me if it was easier to lay x tile vs y tile I wouldn't say well yes it is easier to lay x tile but it doesn't matter because I then have a bunch of y tile to lay as well... That doesn't make sense because if I have so many square feet to lay in the first place then it is a blessing that some of it can be done with x tile vs b tile. It also doesn't take away from the fact that x tile is indeed easer to lay period. I understand that you are basically saying that there is now more work overall... But that wasn't the question. Also, would you actually only make one version just for scorpio if it where the start of a new gen and it wasn't mandated? How often did that actually happen last time? How many developers made strictly next gen versions of games right off the bat? Are you saying that you would rather just work on a Scorpio version and leave all the money that could be made with an XB1 version on the table? So, if you where going to make both versions anyway, wouldn't it be a blessing that it is easier to dev on Scorpio than XB1?
I'm just saying that it's a good thing period that the scorpio version is easier to dev for, with or without a mandate to make a version for XB1 and it's ok to say so without any modifiers.
I'm seriously not coming at you man. I'm just trying to show you why some here think you are constantly downplaying advantages.
EDIT: I should say though, that you are nowhere near as bad as Liabe Brave lol and I don't know why people singled you out first. Probably because they figured you where more level headed/unbiased and willing to listen.
Think Scorpio will had an SSHD as well?
Doubtful.
xabbott
Member
The XDK has always been relatively fine in term of ease of use. The problem was the design of the Xbox One, which wasn't the best environment. Scorpio is obviously much better in that regard, but because devs still need to make XBO versions, the amount of work has just gone up overall.
If the Scorpio was replacing the XBO, then your answer would be
I don't understand. How would the differing hardware change the environment? I mean I understand obviously having more hardware resources available. But don't the development environment updates benefit the Scorpio and current One? Phil seem to mention this on IGN's Unlocked awhile back too(here).
MR ARCADE FOREVER
Member
Xbox Trump Make Xbox great again
LukasTaves
Member
At least for the base model it's confirmed already it doesn't.
No talk about a different sku, though that's likely given Ms story.
Speaking of kids did you wife have the twins yet? Or did she already have them? I can't remember...
LukasTaves
Member
Even if it's the same code if one console requires more consideration (like for example managing data in and out of esram) it will impact dev time and results.
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