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Xbox Scorpio Pricing Discussion
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Bitch Pudding
Member
Because they reacted to XBOX One's discounts in the past as well (vice versa, of course).
That said, given the importance of PlayStation for Sony in general, they'll probably have a very close look at sales development and act accordingly, no matter how much Scorpio costs in the end.
Night.Ninja
Banned
Neogaf ? Is the difference even less ?
I mean the gap between ps4 and Xbox one at launch was 40% if i remember correctly and now with the ps4 pro able to play games in 4K that gap must be about 60% to 70% right possibly even high.
Because I remember the DF comparison on launch games and the difference was night and day and now with the pro like a high end PC the difference is even bigger.
Fredrik
Member
Because Microsoft seems determined to beat Sony at all points with this late entry. Faster CPU, faster GPU, more RAM, native 4K, UHD drive. Having PS4 Pro at the same price would be quite awkward to say the least, making it $100 cheaper would kind of nullify Microsoft's efforts and put Sony in the drivers seat yet again. Sony likes to sit in the drivers seat.
Thing is, can the Scorpio beat the standard PS4 in sales? Much cheaper, all the same games plus the raft of Sony exclusive titles.
TBiddy
Member
Of course it can't. No one has that ambition anyways. You can't play Halo, GoW, Forza and more on PS4 btw.
Fredrik
Member
No way. But MS can get some gamers who want the definitive versions to jump ship and by having a successful Scorpio launch they can push Sony to mess up by rushing into the next generation earlier than planned, then MS can take some strategic moves from Sony and simply ride on the power hype from Scorpio and step in a little later and beat Sony at the power race again. I'd say that Scorpio is their most important platform launch ever.
What? There is no way that is happening.
You are putting way too much stock into an iterative console release aimed at enthusiasts.
”I estimate the basic hardware will cost around $650, so if Microsoft wants any kind of margin at all, Scorpio will have to retail for $700 or more." - IDC analyst Lewis Ward
"We expect Project Scorpio to be most attractive to early adopter Xbox One users and to those who want a potential PC-level VR experience from a relatively cheap alternative to a VR ready PC. If it sells more than one million units in Q4 2017 I think it will be doing extremely well." - Piers Harding-Rolls, IHSMarkit
"A price point of $400 seems somewhat doubtful based on the estimates analysts provided us. RW Baird's Colin Sebastian noted it could be as high as $500 and said that a high price would "limit Scorpio this year to a fairly narrow high-end consumer market."
"Ultimately, however, people buy consoles to play great games. No matter how amazing the tech specs are, if attractive content doesn't show up, the mass market won't adopt. In addition, if we happen to have another E3 2006 style 'five hundred and ninety nine US dollars' moment the outlook gets murkier," - NPD Group's Mat Piscatella
more @ http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...d-outsell-ps4-this-year-thanks-to-scorpio-npd
"We expect Project Scorpio to be most attractive to early adopter Xbox One users and to those who want a potential PC-level VR experience from a relatively cheap alternative to a VR ready PC. If it sells more than one million units in Q4 2017 I think it will be doing extremely well." - Piers Harding-Rolls, IHSMarkit
"A price point of $400 seems somewhat doubtful based on the estimates analysts provided us. RW Baird's Colin Sebastian noted it could be as high as $500 and said that a high price would "limit Scorpio this year to a fairly narrow high-end consumer market."
"Ultimately, however, people buy consoles to play great games. No matter how amazing the tech specs are, if attractive content doesn't show up, the mass market won't adopt. In addition, if we happen to have another E3 2006 style 'five hundred and ninety nine US dollars' moment the outlook gets murkier," - NPD Group's Mat Piscatella
more @ http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...d-outsell-ps4-this-year-thanks-to-scorpio-npd
CaptainofIndustry
Member
$499 or higher. And I think they are going to emphasize that it is a premium product at E3.
I'm there as long as it's under 499.
But from MS' POV what is it they want ? 499 and not make a loss on per unit sold and only gain a slight bump in sales or take the gamble and think big by going 399 and cover the loss per unit with more potential customers and thus more software sales ? Theoretically 1 extra person buying the console can cover that loss per unit easily with just a couple game purchases not to mention the chances of buying more longterm is even bigger. I think the risk is less than it would've been with X360 or X1 imo because the expectation with those were to sell A LOT. X360 sold what 80m and X1 so far 30m ? Scorpio isn't gonna come close to those numbers. With 499 they might sell a million (just an example) and make a small profit or risk 399 and sell 4x,5x,6x the amount it would've sold at 499 for example. They can easily cover that 250m+ loss with those extra 3,4,5m potential customers who'll buy games, subscriptions per customer that would be at least 100 dollar spend on average, at least. Possibly even more. Sure MS is saying Scorpio is for the hardcore crowd but I'm not a hardcore gamer and I'm interested. I'm sure there are plenty of other casuals who would jump on this at 399. Just because you're aiming for a specific crowd doesn't mean when a chance arises you should ignore the other. E3 will be interesting to watch.
But from MS' POV what is it they want ? 499 and not make a loss on per unit sold and only gain a slight bump in sales or take the gamble and think big by going 399 and cover the loss per unit with more potential customers and thus more software sales ? Theoretically 1 extra person buying the console can cover that loss per unit easily with just a couple game purchases not to mention the chances of buying more longterm is even bigger. I think the risk is less than it would've been with X360 or X1 imo because the expectation with those were to sell A LOT. X360 sold what 80m and X1 so far 30m ? Scorpio isn't gonna come close to those numbers. With 499 they might sell a million (just an example) and make a small profit or risk 399 and sell 4x,5x,6x the amount it would've sold at 499 for example. They can easily cover that 250m+ loss with those extra 3,4,5m potential customers who'll buy games, subscriptions per customer that would be at least 100 dollar spend on average, at least. Possibly even more. Sure MS is saying Scorpio is for the hardcore crowd but I'm not a hardcore gamer and I'm interested. I'm sure there are plenty of other casuals who would jump on this at 399. Just because you're aiming for a specific crowd doesn't mean when a chance arises you should ignore the other. E3 will be interesting to watch.
Then why not go all the way with Zen/Vega instead of Jaguar/Polaris? Because you can barely call the latter 'premium'.
If they think doubling down on things like build quality, cooling and materials is going to soothe over a price of over 500 bucks, they are mistaken.
That stuff works with Surface because they are putting in bleeding-edge chips in the Surface tablets and squeeze great performance out of a ridiculously small frame in favor of portability.
And that's in a market where the average high-end ultrabook is easily 1000+$.
I don't think the console market is receptive to that same brand of 'premium' pricing, especially not when you're not really getting any 'premium' hardware components in return. I'm more in favor of the idea that it's just clever marketing.
this would only happen if the third party games show clear indications of them being the definitive editions in such a way that everyone, including joe public are aware of it. but i'm not convinced most people will even be able to tell the difference between 4k and CBR 4k. hell, people bought the xbox and are happy to play multiplatform titles on that and it's resolution difference is way more noticable between the two platforms.
this in turn won't push sony to do anything. they're in a position that doesn't require them to. scorpio ultimately isn't going to be able to turn the tide of the way this gen is going, at most it will close the gap by a couple million. but even that could be countered by sony having bundles/price drops/a more compelling games library of titles you can't get anywhere else...
MS have said they don't expect the scorpio to sell amazingly on account of it's premium/enthusiast status. and they know the bulk of xbox sales will continue to be the baseline console. and if that's the case both MS and sony will be getting most of their sales from their weaker systems. and we already know how that story goes.
i expect the scorpio to be $450-500 if only to promote the notion of a more premium product. and 3-4 years into a console cycle majority of potential buyers aren't looking to spend that much on a new console. the reason they haven't bought either over the span of 4 years is because they still consider them too expensive with too small of a library of games. so the best way to sell consoles now, seeing as the enthusiast gamers are present and accounted for at this point, is to make more games and sell the machine cheap. that's true for sony and MS and is the key element as to why the likes of PS2 are the 100+ million sellers they are. most of those sales came later, not when it was $300. people simply like a bargain. and that's what those still on the fence are waiting for.
Final Verdict
Member
I still think $499, but y'all make a good point about buying games because the type of person that will want to buy the Scorpio will likely buy a lot of games for it too (more of the hardcore crowd). This will be especially true if they buy it as their new primary console for 3rd party games.
TBiddy
Member
700$? Haha. Seriously. What the fuck.
It's less mind share and more like not enough exclusive content on the console. There has been nothing exciting to play exclusively for 6-7 months.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
It makes you wonder how these analysts get their job in the first place. There's literally zero chance it will be any higher than $499.
There's plenty to play for new console owners though, especially if it's their only console. Not saying they don't need to refocus on exclusives, that goes along the lines of improving the brand's image after destroying it around launch time.
Why would new console owners not be interested in the 230$ XB1S, but suddenly interested in the 399$/449$ Xbox Scorpio? I mean, they will play the exact same games. Graphics alone?
Final Verdict
Member
I'm sure they could have higher skus that are above $499, but you mean for the base price right?
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Yes of course.
Final Verdict
Member
Haha well then yeah...you almost have to wonder if they are saying this sort of stuff so people will expect it to cost that much.
By the way, does anyone have an idea of just how much extra a vapor chamber cooler would cost? It sounds expensive, but maybe they found a way to get it cheap?
Ok, let's remove the PS4 from the equation to make it like for like. When Scorpio launches, there will be an existing Microsoft console that will continue to receive all the same games that Scorpio does at a much cheaper cost. The same issue exists for PS4pro too.
I'm sure there will be OG owners buying it, especially this holiday season. Beyond the hardcore of hardcore Xbox owners, I see the Scorpio and pro as options for new 4K TV owners. As the adoption rate rises, I'd imagine new owners will want something to show off their new displays. It's a niche market but won't be that niche for long. It's a good strategy to have something available when that happens.
Fredrik
Member
We'll see about that. Do you think Sony will sit happily another 3 years as the loser on all DF faceoffs? I definitely think Scorpio might push Sony to release PS5 a bit earlier, we hear that as the answer from the PS fans too whenever there is too much talk about the assumed power difference between Pro and Scorpio. Someone even thought Sony would start hyping PS5 this E3 and launch it next year lol
This is my boat. There is a load of games out on PS4 that I'd like to play and it is that rather than the PS4pro that is cheapest route to market for me.
by the time 4k adoption increases in such a way that it makes a dent, PS5 and XBone two will be out.
if they continue to sell the most consoles month after month (they will), then why wouldn't they? were they bothered when the original xbox was destroying them on the visual front 2 generations ago?
get2sammyb
Member
If they continue to be the market leader by a large margin (which they probably will), then I doubt they'll be too concerned about Digital Foundry's content.
dragonyeuw
Member
No, nor should we expect it to outsell the XB1 slim. The market for people who just want 'a' console to play, and would be perfectly fine with the vanilla versions of these systems, is significantly larger than those willing to fork over $400 plus dollars. The Pro by all accounts isn't outselling the Slim, because 3/4 years into the gen you're hitting the demographic of people whose purchasing decisions are primarily 'value-driven'. Even on a enthusiast site like Neogaf we have threads of people who are trying to decide between a $249 Ps4 slim with Uncharted 4 or a $399 Pro model. We need to be conservative about the amount of people actually willing to pay $400 for a system when there's a $200-250 'budget' model sitting right next to it that plays the same games.
I really hope you're not serious. Because if I'm reading this right, you believe that a huge company like Sony would make business decisions based on DF videos. You can't be that naive.
wut
I've been silently perusing this thread but man, this is a pretty ignorant post.
Why would Sony bend to the will of DF videos or Sony fan boys crying for an immediate jump in power now with PS5?
As long as Sony keep seeing that 2:1 global sales ratio, they won't be freaking out like your typical forum poster.
tiredheadcrab
Member
I doubt we will see the Pro at $299 this fall. Even with a pack in game it will probably be $349-$399. I dont think we will scorpio with either this fall but who knows.
MS hasn't released a console without a game since Titanfall. Scorpio will come with one, just not new. My guess is they copy what they did with the S last year, but with all the Gears instead of Halo. That way they can make any $ they lose on hw back on potential mtx in those games and it will cost them 0 anyway
I thought it's projected to be an 80/20 split as soon as next year, no? You can get a decent non-HDR 4K TV for a pretty good price this year.
For the later adopters who are waiting for truly mass market prices, I would think a cheaper Pro or Scorpio would be more appealing. The PS5 and XBone Too would be there for the hardcore and early adopters.
I think MS can get away with $500 because of the performance delta vs the competing products. $500 is certainly not mass market, but it's a price that the hardcore crowd can get behind. More than $500, and the perceived value will start to turn.
dragonyeuw
Member
The only people who are going to care about such face-offs is the market who are looking at the Ps4 Pro versus the Scorpio. And that market is going to be much smaller than the one who will compare the Ps4 slim and the Xbox one S. These 'premium' models are meant to extend the race and offer a technically better experience for those who want to pay for such, but this race is being decided ultimately by those aforementioned base models. And said race has long since been decided, Sony has too much of a grip on this generation to have their strategies altered by Scorpio's arrival.
wesleyshark
Banned
Lmao. If they go that high they're absolutely insane.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
I mean there's no chance of Phil walking on stage and announcing $599+, with the Kaz Hirai dance track booming in the background. Not a chance.
I guess a best trade off between profit and perceived value is $449, and £399 in the UK. The euro countries wont take notice at all if the number begins with 4. They will just stick with what they have or buy a PSPro.
I guess a best trade off between profit and perceived value is $449, and £399 in the UK. The euro countries wont take notice at all if the number begins with 4. They will just stick with what they have or buy a PSPro.
I agree- there's offering a "premium product" and there's pricing yourself out of the market. at $600, it would be an incredibly hard sell, with the XB1S on the shelves for $250, and it plays the same games at a lower res.
On the other end of the spectrum, if they launch at $399, the message would be taken that it's on par with PS4 Pro, otherwise, why are they the same price? (to the average joe)
So the strategy for them should be to price it as a high end product, without going so high that no one will buy it. $499 seems like the best bet... if it was Vegas, I'd say this price has the lowest payout.
TBiddy
Member
But if you're removing the PS4 from your original post, it reads something like this, and I'm not quite sure how to respond to that.
dragonyeuw
Member
They are marketing it as technically superior to the Ps4 Pro. If it winds up at $399 that's a feather in MS's cap though I'd be very surprised to see it at that price. Ultimately if there's no compelling software that the Scorpio can show off in all is 4K glory, I'm not sure it matters.
While MS does need to improve in 1st-party output, every 3rd-party game has potential to be a showcase on the Scorpio hardware.