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[cripterion]

Well, they said the "investment" (whatever that entails) is going to come primarily from backers, so that's why they came to the conclusion that Sony's giving less than $2 mil.

I think they only intended that statement to mean for development costs. I figure Sony's going to give them a lot more, they're probably handling advertising or something since that would obviously benefit them as the game is not available on XBONE.

Even then it sounds like such a low figure. I appreciate the revival of the game but you're telling me a huge corp like that can't even front more than 2M for such an ambitious project? Maybe they should spend less time securing DLC/extra missions up the wazoo and invest in meaningful stuff.

I already put up my pledge but I can't say I like what I'm hearing from all parties involved...

 

[benzy]

So there is an exclusivity deal in place?

Suzuki approached Sony first. It's at least timed exclusive as Sony is also helping with development and marketing.

 

[NoFaceNico]

So there is an exclusivity deal in place?

Not that we know of, and of course it'll be on PC. But again- as I see it, it's common sense. If you're a console manufacturer, why throw any amount of money to help a game that will appear on your competitor's console? You make it exclusive because you get to reap the rewards of that investment after the game is unavailable on everyone else's console, so if anyone wants to play it on a console they have to buy your console to play it.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I'm not talking about raising costs. Set the XB1 and even WiiU version as a stretch goal , many other kickstarted games have used potential console versions as stretch goals. Set it at the amount that would be necessary to port and publish the game on those platforms. That way you'll surely get more pledges and completely avoid any insinuation that Sony has bought exclusivity.

Suggesting that the possibility that it is a console times/full exclusive is the shady and untrustworthy bit that forces us to put the entire KS under a microscope ?

 

[IrishNinja]

I'm not talking about raising costs. Set the XB1 and even WiiU version as a stretch goal , many other kickstarted games have used potential console versions as stretch goals. Set it at the amount that would be necessary to port and publish the game on those platforms. That way you'll surely get more pledges and completely avoid any insinuation that Sony has bought exclusivity.

but you very much are, on a project that's not only a huge risk as it is, but again, wouldn't be here without sony. why wouldn't they look to keep it on their console? again, there's no other way we'd have this.
also: it's still coming to PC. i have no idea why this doesn't make more people here happier.

Yuck. We're just starting the story. Having it rushed in Shenmue III is a no go. Go big or go home. I want the original vision - even if I have to wait another 20 years!

PREACH

 

[Theonik]

So there is an exclusivity deal in place?

No-one knows ports might be happening but they are not telling us about it. Not even ps4 physical is happening right now.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

PREACH

TESTIFY!

 

[alexandros]

but you very much are, on a project that's not only a huge risk as it is, but again, wouldn't be here without sony. why wouldn't they look to keep it on their console? again, there's no other way we'd have this.

That doesn't seem to be true according to the latest information. As far as we know so far, Sony is bankrolling the PS4 port and will chip in with advertising and marketing. If that is accurate then there is nothing to suggest that the PC version of Shenmue wouldn't have happened without Sony's involvement. Therefore the game would have been here without Sony. Correct?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Does anyone know why Xbox One isn't targeted at all? Sony is footing the bill for the PS4 port but is there any reason why the XB1 version isn't at the very least a stretch goal? It seems like a straightforward way of drawing in more pledges. Hell, throw in WiiU in there too!

So, MS and Nintendo did not really give a crap about reviving Shenmue beyond random lip service, Sony decided to step in also thanks to personal connections/friendship, gave the KS a voice at E3, and we are concerned about exclusivity deals which may or may not have taken place?!? Also, how is this worth all the suspicious scrutiny, not to say FUD somewhat, curiously trying to damp the enthusiasm some fans have for such historic game series and its revival.

This game series was dead unless something major happened and some big players got involved. Two passed on it and one helped... and some people are pissed...smh...

If they made Betrayal at Krondon II exclusive for Xbox One and PC my thought would be to explain my wife I also want an Xbox One down the line rather than being so negative about its KS. Would I have liked it to come to PS4 too? Sure, but you bet I would pledge to the KS.

Historical precedent? Beside a friend giving me a kickass discount on a copy of Halo, why do you think I even bought an Xbox in the first place? (Hint: Shenmue II did not get a DreamCast release in the U.S.)

 

[Toki767]

People need to look at past 3rd Party Productions stuff.

Ultra Street Fighter IV on PS4, Borderlands 2 on Vita, etc...

It's basically Sony only paying for and marketing the ports for their consoles.

Maybe they're giving extra funding, maybe they aren't. They clearly had a hand in Suzuki talking with Sega to even secure the license though. Who knows how far that extends.

Bottom line: It sounds like if people want Shenmue 3 on Xbox One or PC, then they'd really have to take that up with Phil Spencer and Satoru Iwata.

 

[IrishNinja]

That doesn't seem to be true according to the latest information. As far as we know so far, Sony is bankrolling the PS4 port and will chip in with advertising and marketing. If that is accurate then there is nothing to suggest that the PC version of Shenmue wouldn't have happened without Sony's involvement. Therefore the game would have been here without Sony. Correct?

i don't believe so, no - even in sony's e3 presser, boyles showed this to be another effort of their building the list campaign. so not only do we see the original team returning (yay!), but the very risk-averse sega finally allowing this to happen, despite suzuki wanting just that forever now - that type of thing clearly doesn't happen without assistance, and after grim fandango, yakuza 5 etc i'm more than willing to give sony their due for taking the efforts here that others didn't.

So, MS and Nintendo did not really give a crap about reviving Shenmue beyond random lip service, Sony decided to step in also thanks to personal connections/friendship, gave the KS a voice at E3, and we are concerned about exclusivity deals which may or may not have taken place?!? Also, how is this worth all the suspicious scrutiny, not to say FUD somewhat, curiously trying to damp the enthusiasm some fans have for such historic game series and its revival.

This game series was dead unless something major happened and some big players got involved. Two passed on it and one helped... and some people are pissed...smh...

this was probably better said than my post

 

[Panajev2001a]

That doesn't seem to be true according to the latest information. As far as we know so far, Sony is bankrolling the PS4 port and will chip in with advertising and marketing. If that is accurate then there is nothing to suggest that the PC version of Shenmue wouldn't have happened without Sony's involvement. Therefore the game would have been here without Sony. Correct?

Your outrage for the Eidos - MS deal on the new Tomb Raider game's exclusivity deal and the wealth of misinformation around it must have made GAF's history, right? Well, considering such posts ...

There is also nothing to suggest the spa version is not a simple by product of making the PS4 version and yet another publisher stating that the PC game would have not been made without a console version...

 

[Hubble]

I really don't think the lack of an Xbox One version is hurting things much at all. I bet the average Shenmue fan is about 25-35 years old, and can afford more than one console, or a gaming PC.

Eh I disagree. I wouldn't say it is hurting but there is a lot of Xbox One owners who do not have a PS4 or game on the PC who would back this.

 

[alexandros]

So, MS and Nintendo did not really give a crap about reviving Shenmue beyond random lip service, Sony decided to step in also thanks to personal connections/friendship, gave the KS a voice at E3, and we are concerned about exclusivity deals which may or may not have taken place?!?

Yes. As far as I know, and please correct me if I'm wrong, this was the first time that a Kickstarter game was featured in an E3 presentation of a platform holder and there are some questions about said platform holder's participation in this project. In my opinion this case deserves extra scrutiny. It may also be the first case of a platform holder buying exclusivity of a Kickstarter game before the campaign is even announced, though there is no way to be sure at this point. That also deserves extra scrutiny. I understand this may be hufely frustrating to Shenmue fans but this is why I said earlier on this thread that Suzuki got screwed.

 

[Steroyd]

I respectfully disagree. In my opinion, when asking gamers to directly fund your game you need to be clear and transparent about everything from the start.

They were, Sony made it very clear in the press conference that it was all Yu Suzuki in regards to Shenmue III and people took that as Sony being deceptively distant yet taking people's kickstarter money etc.

They even threw an example like Grim Fandango before dropping the bomb, this whole Shenmue III thing looks like the bog standard 3rd party pub fund Sony has done a metric ton for this gen.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Yes. As far as I know, and please correct me if I'm wrong, this was the first time that a Kickstarter game was featured in an E3 presentation of a platform holder and there are some questions about said platform holder's participation in this project. In my opinion this case deserves extra scrutiny. It may also be the first case of a platform holder buying exclusivity of a Kickstarter game before the campaign is even announced, though there is no way to be sure at this point. That also deserves extra scrutiny. I understand this may be hufely frustrating to Shenmue fans but this is why I said earlier on this thread that Suzuki got screwed.

He is getting to make the game, I would say that he should hardly feel screwed. He is making it using KS funds and could have opted to make it with just a publisher as any normal game would and got his way here too by going through KS... I really do not get the beef you have with this game and this KS, there is really no proof supporting your point (quite the contrary IMHO) but you are using lack of proof as evidence and probable cause for extra scrutiny...

 

[zeshakag]

That poorly formatted poster pulling a jab at gaming journalism is really distasteful.

If you're trying to generate goodwill towards a project, don't sully the message with negativity, especially potshots. You intend that poster to be someone's gateway to funding Shenmue, so it is a first impression. "Man...this Shenmue III might just be worth my pledge...huh, what is this thing about calling gaming journalism dead. That sounds kind of petty." Plus, media aids the movement. Now you're shitting on anybody who writes about games. Think they're gonna think anything good about Shenmue fans now?
"Shenmue III Kickstarter slowing down due to niche, bitter fanbase."

First impressions, people.

 

[IrishNinja]

i get you guys' point about the OP's posters, but this isn't even the main thread, and none of those images are seen on the many fan effort twitter accounts ive seen

Eh I disagree. I wouldn't say it is hurting but there is a lot of Xbox One owners who do not have a PS4 or game on the PC who would back this.

i rather doubt that, and if they don't want a $29 copy to play on said PC (not my format of choice either, but ive waited like a decade and a half) that kinda rebuffs my point.

That also deserves extra scrutiny. I understand this may be hufely frustrating to Shenmue fans but this is why I said earlier on this thread that Suzuki got screwed.

he went from not having his magnum opus continue to getting his game happen via fan donations inside of a day - this is quite the opposite of being screwed. the majority of those pushing scrutiny are those unhappy with their formats of choice (xbone, pretty much) and kuchera.

They were, Sony made it very clear in the press conference that it was all Yu Suzuki in regards to Shenmue III and people took that as Sony being deceptively distant yet taking people's kickstarter money etc.

They even threw an example like Grim Fandango before dropping the bomb, this whole Shenmue III thing looks like the bog standard 3rd party pub fund Sony has done a metric ton for this gen.

exactly this

 

[alexandros]

Your outrage for the Eidos - MS deal on the new Tomb Raider game's exclusivity deal and the wealth of misinformation around it must have made GAF's history, right? Well, considering such posts ...

I don't get outraged by things that giant corporations do to make money. I don't blame Sony for capitalizing on the Shenmue 3 Kickstarter, every platform holder does everything it can in order to push its platform.

 

[NEO0MJ]

This place got so heated.

Anyways it's nice to get more info on what the deal was.

 

[linkent]

So there is an exclusivity deal in place?

You asked this question in every other thread. Yet you ignored all the answers people are giving to you.
What is the point of that?

Sony spends money on this. It make sense it come to PS4 first.
Other are not, so YS couldnt afford to give it to them.
There is no exclusive deal mentioned. Only coming to PS4 and PC first.
There is even a FAQ in the KS that if you are bother to check(since you are so CONCERN) Mentioning there is no plan to give it them but this is clearly not exclusive title.

Will there be an Xbox/Wii U/Linux/Mac version for Shenmue 3?
Currently we are planning development only for PC (Windows) and PS4. Other platforms have not been decided yet. If other platform versions were added as rewards, an announcement would be made on the update page.

See you again with another Sony hate thread.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I don't get outraged by things that giant corporations do to make money. I don't blame Sony for capitalizing on the Shenmue 3 Kickstarter, every platform holder does everything it can in order to push its platform.

Ok, so I should at least see an epic investigation thread... Scrutiny, concerned analysis and questioning of the game series that ought to be saved by MS and was declared as exclusive, but it was not, yet it was, for sometime, but nobody knew the duration, etc... .

 

[addik]

Yes. As far as I know, and please correct me if I'm wrong, this was the first time that a Kickstarter game was featured in an E3 presentation of a platform holder and there are some questions about said platform holder's participation in this project. In my opinion this case deserves extra scrutiny. It may also be the first case of a platform holder buying exclusivity of a Kickstarter game before the campaign is even announced, though there is no way to be sure at this point. That also deserves extra scrutiny. I understand this may be hufely frustrating to Shenmue fans but this is why I said earlier on this thread that Suzuki got screwed.

I haven't seen a lot of Kickstarters, but from what I saw, normally a Kickstarter game would focus on one platform (mainly the PC), as it's easier to allocate resources and much cheaper to focus on solely one platform. Publishing a PC game is also far simpler than publishing a game for a console (from what I heard). Other platforms may be announced as a stretch goal, but the development focus would be on that one main platform.

Had Sony not step up to strike a deal with Suzuki, the latter might have still gone with a Kickstarter campaign. He has been vocal about it and it seems that he was going to push through with it with or without Sony's help (in fact, he even approached Microsoft but got turned down). What would have happened is that the development would solely happen on the PC and will completely disregard any other console until the game's release or only if a stretch goal is achieved. Don't completely forget that while 2 million is absolute minimum to have this game funded, Suzuki hopes to get 10 million to match this game with his vision, which is normally the case for Kickstarter campaigns (hence, "Director's Cut" is normally a stretch goal as well). I doubt 2 million is enough funds for Suzuki to create this game for the PC and the PS4.

My point is that Sony's aide primarily guarantees the production of a PS4 version, and their funds could just be enough to cover the PS4 port. This removes a lot of from Suzuki's plate. He can use whatever he gets from the Kickstarter to focus on developing the game itself, while he can leave the rest to Sony to port the assets to the PS4. Essentially, Suzuki will be earning from a PS4 version aside from the (potentially) PC(-only) version without having to bite his nails over it. Again, we don't know how much Sony is giving, whether it is enough to guarantee console exclusivity or just to have a PS4 version made, but I think it's a bigger stretch to say that the game would have been released in other platforms aside from the PC if Sony had not stepped in to help production, considering the funds and all.

Again this is all speculation and it really doesn't help anybody. There is case for skepticism definitely, but that Suzuki and Sony have tried to be open about each other's involvement as they can. It's up to you choose be skeptical after, but don't push that skepticism on people who see nothing wrong with the set-up.

 

[alexandros]

Ok, so I should at least see an epic investigation thread... Scrutiny, concerned analysis and questioning of the game series that ought to be saved by MS and was declared as exclusive, but it was not, yet it was, for sometime, but nobody knew the duration, etc... .

The threads are all publicly available, do a search and I will gladly answer whatever questions you may have via PM if you feel a background check is in order. Let's not derail this thread through.

 

[GhostTrick]

People need to look at past 3rd Party Productions stuff.

Ultra Street Fighter IV on PS4, Borderlands 2 on Vita, etc...

It's basically Sony only paying for and marketing the ports for their consoles.

Maybe they're giving extra funding, maybe they aren't. They clearly had a hand in Suzuki talking with Sega to even secure the license though. Who knows how far that extends.

Bottom line: It sounds like if people want Shenmue 3 on Xbox One or PC, then they'd really have to take that up with Phil Spencer and Satoru Iwata.

Eh ? Isn't Shenmue 3 already coming to PC ? oO

 

[Lutherian]

Release on the WiiU?!?!?!?! Are you crazy!? Don't you remember what happened when they released the originals on the Dreamcast!??!!!!


/sorry, I couldn't help myself. But be real, XBONE/WiiU is obviously impossible, why would Sony throw money at a game could end up on their competitor's console??

Remember what happened with Donkey Kong on Collecovision and Atari 2600 ?

 

[IrishNinja]

Remember what happened with Donkey Kong on Collecovision and Atari 2600 ?

Fantasy Zone, After Burner & Shinobi on the NES

Panzer Dragoon, ToeJam & Earl and JSRF on xbox

Virtua Fighter on PS2

cats & dogs, living together; mass hysteria

 

[Chobel]

That doesn't seem to be true according to the latest information. As far as we know so far, Sony is bankrolling the PS4 port and will chip in with advertising and marketing. If that is accurate then there is nothing to suggest that the PC version of Shenmue wouldn't have happened without Sony's involvement. Therefore the game would have been here without Sony. Correct?

Technically yes, but the risk of failed kickstarter will a lot bigger, and even if the kickstarter was funded the risk there are still other stuff that will be very hard without a publisher's help, which also mean more risks for the project to be financial success.

 

[alexandros]

Again this is all speculation and it really doesn't help anybody. There is case for skepticism definitely, but that Suzuki and Sony have tried to be open about each other's involvement as they can. It's up to you choose be skeptical after, but don't push that skepticism on people who see nothing wrong with the set-up.

I very much agree with your post and especially with the quoted part.

 

[DustyVonEric]

Even then it sounds like such a low figure. I appreciate the revival of the game but you're telling me a huge corp like that can't even front more than 2M for such an ambitious project? Maybe they should spend less time securing DLC/extra missions up the wazoo and invest in meaningful stuff.

I already put up my pledge but I can't say I like what I'm hearing from all parties involved...

On the Day 3 (or was it Day 2, I marathoned them) of E3 Giant Bomcast, Sony's 3rd party relations said they could have fully funded it, but then it would probably need to come under Shu's 1st party umbrella. They actually tell a funny story about how Sony was keeping the two team's information separate, like they wouldn't be allowed to sit in 1st party game meetings. But when the 3rd party guys met up with Shu, they leaked the Shenmue E3 reveal to him, who leaked back the TLG will be at E3 also, and they both got excited because they knew this E3 could be special.

Anyways, the 3rd party relations guys also again backed what Boyes said, that Sony could have spent a year or two researching and gauging the real interest in a Shenmue game, but decided on a Kickstarter with Yu Suzuki. One because Suzuki requested it, it's a passion project of his, and Sony can kick in too while helping with marketing and visibility. And Two to gauge interest, so if it didn't get funded then they'd figure the demand is not there.

Everyone's happy that with how strong support has been, and it may have been one of the GB guys that said Yu Suzuki needed a box of tissues back stage (could have been a joke though). Good segment; check it out.

 

[Spaghetti]

Everyone's happy that with how strong support has been, and it may have been one of the GB guys that said Yu Suzuki needed a box of tissues back stage (could have been a joke though). Good segment; check it out.

i don't doubt this. shenmue has been yu's work since basically the early 90s. there's a tremendous amount of fatalism about the series that has carried into perceived fact. that reflected on him, and his career suffered greatly as a result.

he wasn't expecting the great crowd reaction, nor was he expecting the massive influx of funding for the kickstarter. i wouldn't be surprised if a 14+ year weight has now lifted itself off his shoulders.

 

[PrivateRyan]

That poorly formatted poster pulling a jab at gaming journalism is really distasteful.

Agreed 100%.

The media's reach is big enough that there's a need to fight the misinformation being spread but calling them names back looks petty and doesn't do anyone any favours.

Shame too because outside of that, the graphic has plenty of useful information.

 

[DustyVonEric]

i don't doubt this. shenmue has been yu's work since basically the early 90s. there's a tremendous amount of fatalism about the series that has carried into perceived fact. that reflected on him, and his career suffered greatly as a result.

he wasn't expecting the great crowd reaction, nor was he expecting the massive influx of funding for the kickstarter. i wouldn't be surprised if a 14+ year weight has now lifted itself off his shoulders.

Yep, definitely. Yu Suzuki must have been crazy excited and bursting at the seams as E3 was coming. In that same GB e3 segment, the Sony guys said Yu was sending out these cryptic hints like tweets of forklifts because he was so pumped. And they had to jump in and ask him to stop to save it for the reveal. I'm happy for him.

 

[Harmen]

I just hope the "Sony is already paying the whole game and your money will go staight into their pockets" narrative did not hurt the campaign in any way.

I will pour some money in it too (and it is my first time doing so on kickstarter).

 

[Mr. X]

So there is an exclusivity deal in place?

Exclusivity deal implies they have the resources to do other platforms.

It's dropping on PS4/PC first in exchange for marketing and PS4 development. Even if there is some time limit in that contract with PS4/PC first (there is), they likely don't have the resources to simultaneously work on a XBone or Wii U etc. versions anyway so it's like a no brainer to take the deal.

 

[Durante]

Ok, so I should at least see an epic investigation thread... Scrutiny, concerned analysis and questioning of the game series that ought to be saved by MS and was declared as exclusive, but it was not, yet it was, for sometime, but nobody knew the duration, etc... .

No one really believed that MS was doing them a favor by moneyhatting TR.

 

[autoduelist]

I respectfully disagree. In my opinion, when asking gamers to directly fund your game you need to be clear and transparent about everything from the start.

While technically kickstarter has gamers 'fund' a game, it's not an 'investment' in the traditional sense. It's little more than a blind faith donation -- an attempt to get something made using crowd sourcing, often achieving results traditional methods never could because the project was too risky/small/whatever to ever get backing and off the ground.

But it's still just a donation. It's funding the game, but it doesn't / shouldn't / can't give the funders the same level of transparency investors might get. Certainly, a company might offer that level of transparency, but requiring it is asking too much. If you, personally, require that level of transparency, that's fine -- only kickstart projects that guarantee it.

 

[GavinGT]

Everyone's happy that with how strong support has been, and it may have been one of the GB guys that said Yu Suzuki needed a box of tissues back stage (could have been a joke though). Good segment; check it out.

Boyes said that.

 

[Vroadstar]

Exclusivity deal implies they have the resources to do other platforms.

It's dropping on PS4/PC first in exchange for marketing and PS4 development. Even if there is some time limit in that contract with PS4/PC first (there is), they likely don't have the resources to simultaneously work on a XBone or Wii U etc. versions anyway so it's like a no brainer to take the deal.

Don't even bother with him, he is in pretty much every Shenmue III thread, the latest thread I saw him saying Sony "money-hatted" Shenmue III.

Admit it or not, his "concern" is more about his platform of choice than Shenmue III.

 

[Percy]

I don't get outraged by things that giant corporations do to make money. I don't blame Sony for capitalizing on the Shenmue 3 Kickstarter, every platform holder does everything it can in order to push its platform.

Well...

No one really believed that MS was doing them a favor by moneyhatting TR.

Polygon did

 

[Hex]

It is pathetic that gaming has reached a point where people can not be happy that they are getting a game that people have been waiting many years for.
No, they have to be back biting, sniveling little shits because the announcement was not for their system.
This should have been an epic time in gaming, but it has been dragged into the shit pit.
"Gamers" lol.

No matter how much information is clarified, it is never good enough and always spun.

 

[ValfarHL]

Is this series really that good, or is it mostly nostalgia hype? Sorry if I'm being ignorant, but I'm considering playing the originals.

 

[Hex]

Is this series really that good, or is it mostly nostalgia hype? Sorry if I'm being ignorant, but I'm considering playing the originals.

Most who have played it, love it.
That being said, when it released it pretty much bombed or at least did not make what you would think it did considering the following that it has.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

It is pathetic that gaming has reached a point where people can not be happy that they are getting a game that people have been waiting many years for.
No, they have to be back biting, sniveling little shits because the announcement was not for their system.
This should have been an epic time in gaming, but it has been dragged into the shit pit.
"Gamers" lol.

No matter how much information is clarified, it is never good enough and always spun.

It still is.

Is this series really that good, or is it mostly nostalgia hype? Sorry if I'm being ignorant, but I'm considering playing the originals.

It's not just nostalgia. I re-played them last year and no videogame still does atmosphere like the Shenmue games do. They're two very, very special games.

 

[ValfarHL]

Most who have played it, love it.
That being said, when it released it pretty much bombed or at least did not make what you would think it did considering the following that it has.

It's not just nostalgia. I re-played them last year and no videogame still does atmosphere like the Shenmue games do. They're two very, very special games.

Good stuff. Will look to buy a used Dreamcast. One sentence I never imagined writing.

 

[Hex]

It still is.



It's not just nostalgia. I re-played them last year and no videogame still does atmosphere like the Shenmue games do. They're two very, very special games.

Absolutely

 

[Hex]

Good stuff. Will look to buy a used Dreamcast. One sentence I never imagined writing.

A great pick up all around.
Shenmue, Skies of Arcadia, Panzer Dragoon, so many great titles on Dreamcast

 

[Theonik]

Good stuff. Will look to buy a used Dreamcast. One sentence I never imagined writing.

Worst case scenario you spend all the game time wasting your in game allowance playing Hang-On!

 

[Night Hunter]

Is this series really that good, or is it mostly nostalgia hype? Sorry if I'm being ignorant, but I'm considering playing the originals.

I think they are in the 'either love them or hate them' category. Shenmue did things that are still fresh today, others which I think have actually regressed in the mean time (their much smaller open words are filled to the brim with things to explore) and things that of course have gone the way of the dodo since then (an overabundance of QTEs, tank controls, etc.). Also, the games really don't give you that much direction and let you explore for yourselves.

I guess people just have to keep in mind, that they are actually playing old 3D games. And there are some negatives that come with that.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

Good stuff. Will look to buy a used Dreamcast. One sentence I never imagined writing.

: )

Absolutely

: )